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On August 08 2011 06:34 dacthehork wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 06:32 PassiveAce wrote:On August 08 2011 06:20 dacthehork wrote:
The way you stop "gold/item selling" is simply make sure every ingame trade is "balanced" in terms of value for both traders. If a SOJ is worth 1,000,000 gold, you can only trade when both sides trade 1,000,000 gold in value. this prevents out of game currency from mattering. The only thing to be done to stop RMT is make all trade balanced (public auction, so if you try and give a weapon away for real money, the market itself will bid the item up in value (no buy now price) and make it impossible.
This lowers all RMT to only being actual whole accounts which is easily stopped with proper account recovery methods / ways to make it risky to buy/share accounts with farmers.
hahaha your solution sounds like a closed market in a communist country lol. I don't think i would want to play a game where the head of state (Blizz) sets all fixed prices for private transactions. sounds rather drastic if you ask me. no there would simply be a public auction house. AKA I want to get rid of item I dont need or just want gold. I put it up for auction and highest bid gets the item (24 hour time). I want to buy an item I check the auctions and put a max bid price. Again it just ensures that every item is sold/bought at proper ingame value with a balanced trade. AKA I cant just give you an item and receive 20 dollars which is how RMT functions. Having an ingame real money trade service is drastic imo. Its hard for most people to grasp the ramifications but expect a large market of farmers / hackers /botters to become the norm.
im sorry i'm confused. Are you proposing that the ability to trade with individuals be eliminated?
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On August 08 2011 06:20 dacthehork wrote:
An example. Disable private trades. All goods have to be put up for auction and bought at auction for the transfer to take place. This ensures all items will be purchased with appropriate ingame value and not cash.
out of the "plenty of alternate solutions", the best example you came up with is DISABLE PRIVATE TRADES? you should be doing propaganda for north korea.
may god have mercy on your soul
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On August 08 2011 06:39 PassiveAce wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 06:34 dacthehork wrote:On August 08 2011 06:32 PassiveAce wrote:On August 08 2011 06:20 dacthehork wrote:
The way you stop "gold/item selling" is simply make sure every ingame trade is "balanced" in terms of value for both traders. If a SOJ is worth 1,000,000 gold, you can only trade when both sides trade 1,000,000 gold in value. this prevents out of game currency from mattering. The only thing to be done to stop RMT is make all trade balanced (public auction, so if you try and give a weapon away for real money, the market itself will bid the item up in value (no buy now price) and make it impossible.
This lowers all RMT to only being actual whole accounts which is easily stopped with proper account recovery methods / ways to make it risky to buy/share accounts with farmers.
hahaha your solution sounds like a closed market in a communist country lol. I don't think i would want to play a game where the head of state (Blizz) sets all fixed prices for private transactions. sounds rather drastic if you ask me. no there would simply be a public auction house. AKA I want to get rid of item I dont need or just want gold. I put it up for auction and highest bid gets the item (24 hour time). I want to buy an item I check the auctions and put a max bid price. Again it just ensures that every item is sold/bought at proper ingame value with a balanced trade. AKA I cant just give you an item and receive 20 dollars which is how RMT functions. Having an ingame real money trade service is drastic imo. Its hard for most people to grasp the ramifications but expect a large market of farmers / hackers /botters to become the norm. im sorry i'm confused. Are you proposing that the ability to trade with individuals be eliminated?
Well basically all trades go through public auction instead of private deals. So basically you still "trade" with other people but you can't do imbalanced trades, everything basically goes for market price. You cant say, give a friend an item you don't need anymore but you can give an alt on your own account that item.
It does slightly morph the item market on a small micro scale but keeps the bigger picture of the market healthier with far less RMT and gold selling (which becomes impossible).
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On August 08 2011 06:40 Saeglopur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 06:20 dacthehork wrote:
An example. Disable private trades. All goods have to be put up for auction and bought at auction for the transfer to take place. This ensures all items will be purchased with appropriate ingame value and not cash.
out of the "plenty of alternate solutions", the best example you came up with is DISABLE PRIVATE TRADES? you should be doing propaganda for north korea. may god have mercy on your soul
Its a trade off. In a more closed economy you basically have to earn every item on your account. A friend can't give htem to you (he can help you clear areas though). At the same time it stops RMT/gold selling etc and greatly decreases the incentive to have factories of farmers in china.
In the RMAH world we will have mass farmings/bottings/etc of all sorts to make money. Also a huge influx of items into the market and a near reliance on spending money to even use the auction. Huge devaluations in gold due to the # of farmers and $$$ becoming the real currency
It really depends if you want the game to be "fair" versus "who cares mass gold selling, pay for items, etc'
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On August 08 2011 04:34 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 04:23 homer001 wrote:On August 08 2011 03:51 Nazarid wrote:On August 08 2011 03:48 smallerk wrote:On August 08 2011 03:46 Nazarid wrote:On August 07 2011 18:02 Serpico wrote:On August 07 2011 16:43 Nazarid wrote:On August 07 2011 16:14 Dfgj wrote:On August 07 2011 11:43 VPCursed wrote:
am i one of the few people who don't give a flying fuck if people buy items for RL money?
I mean, really.. how does it effect my experience unless im some raging dude who thinks his life depends on whether or not hes the first to get the most uber character. Do you care if people bot, maphack, or outright cheat? It doesn't effect you. Just want to make sure I know where we stand on this one. It did not affect me in Diablo 2, why would it effect me in Diablo 3? PvP is the only situation this will hurt me and if they want to cheat in PvP more power to the noob. also cheating in diablo 3 will come with possible jail time(IE: botting and selling on the RMAH = fraud) Seems like you dont really care about much of anything then, I myself can't really play with blinders on. Then it is a simple decision for you, Dont buy the game and good riddance. Yep, good riddance of the players who actually care about the sense of acomplishment in a game. What exactly are you trying to accomplish ?? Seriously i want to know... even if the RMAH did not exist sites like d2jsp would pop up for Diablo 3 and your argument would be moot... This game is not a game where you measure you cock against the next person it is meant to be exactly like diablo, and diablo 2... A grind fest for the best awesome gear. Who exactly are you competing with? Why are you so mad that blizzard made it safe to trade your items ? is it because they get some money and can support the game longer than they did in Diablo 2? I just want to hear A constructive comment from you. haha well said. some players think u shud only be rewarded with awesome gear if u spend alot of "time" grinding it. wat they need to know is everyone's "time" has diff monetary value. Whats the point of having any progression if you just fast forward through most of it with great gear? Whats the point when you trivialize content so quickly?
I don't think people will be able to fast forward through D3 like they did in D2. Being rushed in Diablo 2 pretty much obliterated the majority of game play and yet people loved the game.
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On August 08 2011 06:52 PhiliBiRD wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 04:34 Serpico wrote:On August 08 2011 04:23 homer001 wrote:On August 08 2011 03:51 Nazarid wrote:On August 08 2011 03:48 smallerk wrote:On August 08 2011 03:46 Nazarid wrote:On August 07 2011 18:02 Serpico wrote:On August 07 2011 16:43 Nazarid wrote:On August 07 2011 16:14 Dfgj wrote:On August 07 2011 11:43 VPCursed wrote:
am i one of the few people who don't give a flying fuck if people buy items for RL money?
I mean, really.. how does it effect my experience unless im some raging dude who thinks his life depends on whether or not hes the first to get the most uber character. Do you care if people bot, maphack, or outright cheat? It doesn't effect you. Just want to make sure I know where we stand on this one. It did not affect me in Diablo 2, why would it effect me in Diablo 3? PvP is the only situation this will hurt me and if they want to cheat in PvP more power to the noob. also cheating in diablo 3 will come with possible jail time(IE: botting and selling on the RMAH = fraud) Seems like you dont really care about much of anything then, I myself can't really play with blinders on. Then it is a simple decision for you, Dont buy the game and good riddance. Yep, good riddance of the players who actually care about the sense of acomplishment in a game. What exactly are you trying to accomplish ?? Seriously i want to know... even if the RMAH did not exist sites like d2jsp would pop up for Diablo 3 and your argument would be moot... This game is not a game where you measure you cock against the next person it is meant to be exactly like diablo, and diablo 2... A grind fest for the best awesome gear. Who exactly are you competing with? Why are you so mad that blizzard made it safe to trade your items ? is it because they get some money and can support the game longer than they did in Diablo 2? I just want to hear A constructive comment from you. haha well said. some players think u shud only be rewarded with awesome gear if u spend alot of "time" grinding it. wat they need to know is everyone's "time" has diff monetary value. Whats the point of having any progression if you just fast forward through most of it with great gear? Whats the point when you trivialize content so quickly? I don't think people will be able to fast forward through D3 like they did in D2. Being rushed in Diablo 2 pretty much obliterated the majority of game play and yet people loved the game.
At the same time there is no "uniqueness" to a character in D3 besides class. Once you have a lvl 60 barbarian (you can buy characters on the auction house) you never need a new one. The focus even more than ever is on gear to customize how your character plays while skill points/traits etc have mostly been removed for more focus on gear.
Its pretty obvious when they say they want to make the game far more casual than WoW even.. I really have no idea what to expect from D3 but I'm expecting it to be League of Legends version of D2.
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On August 08 2011 06:42 dacthehork wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 06:39 PassiveAce wrote:On August 08 2011 06:34 dacthehork wrote:On August 08 2011 06:32 PassiveAce wrote:On August 08 2011 06:20 dacthehork wrote:
The way you stop "gold/item selling" is simply make sure every ingame trade is "balanced" in terms of value for both traders. If a SOJ is worth 1,000,000 gold, you can only trade when both sides trade 1,000,000 gold in value. this prevents out of game currency from mattering. The only thing to be done to stop RMT is make all trade balanced (public auction, so if you try and give a weapon away for real money, the market itself will bid the item up in value (no buy now price) and make it impossible.
This lowers all RMT to only being actual whole accounts which is easily stopped with proper account recovery methods / ways to make it risky to buy/share accounts with farmers.
hahaha your solution sounds like a closed market in a communist country lol. I don't think i would want to play a game where the head of state (Blizz) sets all fixed prices for private transactions. sounds rather drastic if you ask me. no there would simply be a public auction house. AKA I want to get rid of item I dont need or just want gold. I put it up for auction and highest bid gets the item (24 hour time). I want to buy an item I check the auctions and put a max bid price. Again it just ensures that every item is sold/bought at proper ingame value with a balanced trade. AKA I cant just give you an item and receive 20 dollars which is how RMT functions. Having an ingame real money trade service is drastic imo. Its hard for most people to grasp the ramifications but expect a large market of farmers / hackers /botters to become the norm. im sorry i'm confused. Are you proposing that the ability to trade with individuals be eliminated? Well basically all trades go through public auction instead of private deals. So basically you still "trade" with other people but you can't do imbalanced trades, everything basically goes for market price. You cant say, give a friend an item you don't need anymore but you can give an alt on your own account that item. It does slightly morph the item market on a small micro scale but keeps the bigger picture of the market healthier with far less RMT and gold selling (which becomes impossible).
Ok, now I understand. But what about trading? (your sword for my shield + a rune or something)
Or just giving stuff away to friends? no more being able to work the AH for gold?
I don't think that by introducing the RMAH blizzard is exacerbating the problem, farm/hacks/bots have always existed in diablo II and it is ultimately up to blizzard to prevent hacks. What I mean is they should not ever significantly change gameplay or content specifically to deal with abusers.
In the RMAH world we will have mass farmings/bottings/etc of all sorts to make money. Also a huge influx of items into the market and a near reliance on spending money to even use the auction. Huge devaluations in gold due to the # of farmers and $$$ becoming the real currency
Now your just prophesying doom.
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On August 08 2011 06:57 PassiveAce wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 06:42 dacthehork wrote:On August 08 2011 06:39 PassiveAce wrote:On August 08 2011 06:34 dacthehork wrote:On August 08 2011 06:32 PassiveAce wrote:On August 08 2011 06:20 dacthehork wrote:
The way you stop "gold/item selling" is simply make sure every ingame trade is "balanced" in terms of value for both traders. If a SOJ is worth 1,000,000 gold, you can only trade when both sides trade 1,000,000 gold in value. this prevents out of game currency from mattering. The only thing to be done to stop RMT is make all trade balanced (public auction, so if you try and give a weapon away for real money, the market itself will bid the item up in value (no buy now price) and make it impossible.
This lowers all RMT to only being actual whole accounts which is easily stopped with proper account recovery methods / ways to make it risky to buy/share accounts with farmers.
hahaha your solution sounds like a closed market in a communist country lol. I don't think i would want to play a game where the head of state (Blizz) sets all fixed prices for private transactions. sounds rather drastic if you ask me. no there would simply be a public auction house. AKA I want to get rid of item I dont need or just want gold. I put it up for auction and highest bid gets the item (24 hour time). I want to buy an item I check the auctions and put a max bid price. Again it just ensures that every item is sold/bought at proper ingame value with a balanced trade. AKA I cant just give you an item and receive 20 dollars which is how RMT functions. Having an ingame real money trade service is drastic imo. Its hard for most people to grasp the ramifications but expect a large market of farmers / hackers /botters to become the norm. im sorry i'm confused. Are you proposing that the ability to trade with individuals be eliminated? Well basically all trades go through public auction instead of private deals. So basically you still "trade" with other people but you can't do imbalanced trades, everything basically goes for market price. You cant say, give a friend an item you don't need anymore but you can give an alt on your own account that item. It does slightly morph the item market on a small micro scale but keeps the bigger picture of the market healthier with far less RMT and gold selling (which becomes impossible). Ok, now I understand. But what about trading? (your sword for my shield + a rune or something) Or just giving stuff away to friends? no more being able to work the AH for gold? I don't think that by introducing the RMAH blizzard is exacerbating the problem, farm/hacks/bots have always existed in diablo II and it is ultimately up to blizzard to prevent hacks. What I mean is they should not ever significantly change gameplay or content specifically to deal with abusers.
well the thing is, if you want to trade a shield for a sword, you sell the shield at auction, then use that gold to help buy the sword. You can still hope to find underbid items or sell items at high minimum bid price to make gold.
RMAH is a significant change in the "item" portion of diablo. First it basically gives the old real money farming companies in cheap labor countries a huge outlet to sell in. Gone from risky third party sites straight to ingame. It basically increase the # of people doing real money purchases hugely. This will up the supply (more botting / gold farming than ever). Basically it doesnt solve the problem in any way, the only difference is blizz takes a bigger cut and more of it happens. Its the opposite of a solution to real money affecting ingame item markets and why people dont like it.
It basically creates a sort of "cash shop" but instead of made from thin air like most of them, it's cheap labor, who also take a cut along wth blizz. Also the fact the person who sells any items on the auction house is anonymous, means blizz can basically sell items directly secretly.
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On August 08 2011 06:57 PassiveAce wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 06:42 dacthehork wrote:On August 08 2011 06:39 PassiveAce wrote:On August 08 2011 06:34 dacthehork wrote:On August 08 2011 06:32 PassiveAce wrote:On August 08 2011 06:20 dacthehork wrote:
The way you stop "gold/item selling" is simply make sure every ingame trade is "balanced" in terms of value for both traders. If a SOJ is worth 1,000,000 gold, you can only trade when both sides trade 1,000,000 gold in value. this prevents out of game currency from mattering. The only thing to be done to stop RMT is make all trade balanced (public auction, so if you try and give a weapon away for real money, the market itself will bid the item up in value (no buy now price) and make it impossible.
This lowers all RMT to only being actual whole accounts which is easily stopped with proper account recovery methods / ways to make it risky to buy/share accounts with farmers.
hahaha your solution sounds like a closed market in a communist country lol. I don't think i would want to play a game where the head of state (Blizz) sets all fixed prices for private transactions. sounds rather drastic if you ask me. no there would simply be a public auction house. AKA I want to get rid of item I dont need or just want gold. I put it up for auction and highest bid gets the item (24 hour time). I want to buy an item I check the auctions and put a max bid price. Again it just ensures that every item is sold/bought at proper ingame value with a balanced trade. AKA I cant just give you an item and receive 20 dollars which is how RMT functions. Having an ingame real money trade service is drastic imo. Its hard for most people to grasp the ramifications but expect a large market of farmers / hackers /botters to become the norm. im sorry i'm confused. Are you proposing that the ability to trade with individuals be eliminated? Well basically all trades go through public auction instead of private deals. So basically you still "trade" with other people but you can't do imbalanced trades, everything basically goes for market price. You cant say, give a friend an item you don't need anymore but you can give an alt on your own account that item. It does slightly morph the item market on a small micro scale but keeps the bigger picture of the market healthier with far less RMT and gold selling (which becomes impossible). Ok, now I understand. But what about trading? (your sword for my shield + a rune or something) Or just giving stuff away to friends? no more being able to work the AH for gold? I don't think that by introducing the RMAH blizzard is exacerbating the problem, farm/hacks/bots have always existed in diablo II and it is ultimately up to blizzard to prevent hacks. What I mean is they should not ever significantly change gameplay or content specifically to deal with abusers. Show nested quote +
In the RMAH world we will have mass farmings/bottings/etc of all sorts to make money. Also a huge influx of items into the market and a near reliance on spending money to even use the auction. Huge devaluations in gold due to the # of farmers and $$$ becoming the real currency
Now your just prophesying doom.
Its realistic outlook. I can sell this sword for 10 dollars USD or for 1000 gold coins..
which will the person do? I can't really imagine selling things with actual value for gold instead of USD. Also why wouldn't chinese factories farm items in D3 now that there is a much easier market to sell them in, and they dont have to worry about getting banned. Not to mention the # of farmers will flood the market with gold anyway.
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you can't trade item for item bro. If your little 10 year old cousin nicky wants a sash of vitality that grants +5 to health, you tell him to fuck himself and go wait 24 hours for the item at the AH.
welcome to dacthehork's "fair" Diablo 3. kim jong il approves
User was warned for this post
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Its realistic outlook. I can sell this sword for 10 dollars USD or for 1000 gold coins..
which will the person do? I can't really imagine selling things with actual value for gold instead of USD.
Pretty much my thoughts on this. Even if it would be only 0,50 bucks for an item - it would feel super weird not to take the real money.
Sure, it seems like it's nothing, but it feels like I almost buy virtual goods which is against my nature.
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For clarification, I am not arguing that the RMAH will solve anything, I just dont think it will create the problems you seem to think it will. If Blizzard cares about the integrity of the game they will police abusers without screwing up the game by removing content.
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On August 08 2011 07:07 Saeglopur wrote:
you can't trade item for item bro. If your little 10 year old cousin nicky wants a sash of vitality that grants +5 to health, you tell him to fuck himself and go wait 24 hours for the item at the AH.
welcome to dacthehork's "fair" Diablo 3. kim jong il approves
I want you to know that just because you can be rude doesn't make that point any less awful.
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My opinion on the AH is pretty simple: real money does not belong in games and neither should it be encouraged. I still remember those days when games were still games, without silly stuff like real money and auction houses.
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On August 08 2011 07:10 DrJarp wrote:Show nested quote +
Its realistic outlook. I can sell this sword for 10 dollars USD or for 1000 gold coins..
which will the person do? I can't really imagine selling things with actual value for gold instead of USD.
Pretty much my thoughts on this. Even if it would be only 0,50 bucks for an item - it would feel super weird not to take the real money. Sure, it seems like it's nothing, but it feels like I almost buy virtual goods which is against my nature.
I think you're forgetting that you will be able to sell gold for real money as well. Most players might not want to spend real cash, which means that you may be able to sell the item on the gold AH for a gold amount that is worth more in real money than selling the item straight on the real money auction house.
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On August 08 2011 07:10 DrJarp wrote:Show nested quote +
Its realistic outlook. I can sell this sword for 10 dollars USD or for 1000 gold coins..
which will the person do? I can't really imagine selling things with actual value for gold instead of USD.
Pretty much my thoughts on this. Even if it would be only 0,50 bucks for an item - it would feel super weird not to take the real money. Sure, it seems like it's nothing, but it feels like I almost buy virtual goods which is against my nature.
There are many gold sinks like enhancement in the game that makes gold a demanded commodity. Even ignoring that point the fact that there is people not willing to pay real money will ensure that both AH's are very active, with neither being the obvious favorite until we see how consumer trends actually behave.
Problem solved.
On August 08 2011 07:29 maartendq wrote:
My opinion on the AH is pretty simple: real money does not belong in games and neither should it be encouraged. I still remember those days when games were still games, without silly stuff like real money and auction houses.
If you think people being able to pay to play the game their way makes it not a game, you're very ignorant of the times. This is going to be a big step in gaming and for gamers. These games are better than ones ten years ago when you take your nostalgia glasses off, and making a living breathing economy in a game designed to create an immersive experience just proves how much better it truly is.
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Banning out of AH trades will result in exactly what happens in WoW currently with the cross faction auction houses. You want to give someone an item? You tell them you are putting it on the AH for 1gold, they instantly buy it. You want to trade items? Do the same thing both ways. The only result of this will be that you'll create more ways for people to cheat others by ninjaing these exchanges out from under people.
In a world with NO way to sell in-game goods for real world cash the value of in-game labour increases as people can't play to make real world money so people can't play for anything else than to gear up their characters and there is MUCH less insentive to farm. However that world doesn't exist and Blizzards switch to RMAH is an acknowledgement of this. The RMAH will mean labour in the game is worth much less in in-game terms as Gold farmers from countries with low wages work frantically to increase the efficiency of their farming.
The thing that annoys me is that there will be no way to tell the difference someone who only uses in-game gold from someone who uses cash. While I'd really love to know who was a baller and who was a cash-fag there is no sensible way to do it. Adding some kind of "I've spent cash" flag wouldn't work as you would have to give the flag the instant a character traded or was sent anything because that item might have been bought for cash or bought with gold bought for cash. The only way to do this effectively would be have "No-cash-hardcore" characters who could never trade with other characters that weren't "No-cash-hardcore" characters. If this did actually happen you would get 3rd party sites who traded real money for "No-cash-hardcore" items so you're back to square 1.
Basically it's a giant shit sandwich and we all godda take a bite. The day this situation gets fixed is the day workers around the world earn higher wages, because if it costs $10 an hour to hire a chinese gold farmer then that how much an in game hour is worth. Interestingly this is why standards of living in the west are crashing and will continue to crash over the next few decades. It just takes longer to move physical infrastructure to india/china/haiti/whereever.
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On August 08 2011 07:30 NotJack wrote:
and making a living breathing economy in a game designed to create an immersive experience just proves how much better it truly is.
I didn't realize people played Diablo 2 to waste away their time trying to make profit at an auctionhouse.
But then you seem to think Diablo 3 SHOULD be hack and slash into trying to stimulate an economy, rofl.
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On August 08 2011 08:10 GARO wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 07:30 NotJack wrote:
and making a living breathing economy in a game designed to create an immersive experience just proves how much better it truly is. I didn't realize people played Diablo 2 to waste away their time trying to make profit at an auctionhouse. But then you seem to think Diablo 3 SHOULD be hack and slash into trying to stimulate an economy, rofl.
No shit, there's no auction house in D2. If you actually think I was saying an rpg should have stock trading to immerse the player, you're missing more things than my point.
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EPT
