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On August 29 2010 02:53 Jazriel wrote:
I still don't understand the mentality of "Hurr durr IE on Ashe." I never get IE on Ashe and I have yet to see an Ashe in a pubby unranked game come even close to how effective I am with her (and they're usually inferiour players, my Ashe is pretty good). Having flexible, low to medium costed items that slowly builds up into into higher damage; isn't that plainly superiour?
Boots + Pot
Brutalizer
(In no particular order: )
Upgraded boots
Phage -> Frozen Mallet
LW
I don't see how anyone could want IE over that.
frozen mallet seems kind of redundant...
IE is a good item I don't know much about ashe though, so don't really want to argue for or against it
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Farmed Kassadin > Farmed Nidalee, no doubt!
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On August 29 2010 01:52 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2010 01:19 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:In other news does anyone know what the difference is between bronze, gold, dark blue and bright silver are for these? ![[image loading]](http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/1658/goldbluesilver.jpg) The higher the number, the "better" the color? bronze < dark blue < gold < bright silver? Your stats are sooo different from mine: 5258 takedowns 50700 kills 201 wins
They are so different because wins are counted from pre season 1 where as the other two are only counted from post season 1 games. So the more games you won before ranked play the smaller your comparable kills/takedown stats.
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Apparently there's an item on the TR right now that's basically an archangels with a passive that gives AD based on max mana not AP.
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i'm waiting for the MR/HP items
annnnnnny day now riot
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On August 29 2010 04:34 gtrsrs wrote:
i'm waiting for the MR/HP items
annnnnnny day now riot
would be nice 
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On August 29 2010 04:34 gtrsrs wrote:
i'm waiting for the MR/HP items
annnnnnny day now riot
MR pots?? Please, do explain.
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not HP regen, HP total
like banshee's veil that gives both HP and MR, but MORE of those items
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Here's how I play Zilean:
Q, W, Q, E
After this, R and Q at every level.
Alternate between W and E, so they're basically the same level.
Utility Mastery 0/0/21
Spatial Accuracy
Good Hands
Expanded Mind
Meditation
Utility Mastery
Quickness
Blink of an Eye
Intelligence
Presence of the Master
"Standard" Build (The build I'll follow if I'm lazy/whatever
Doran's Ring + Pot
Boots + Tear of the Goddess
Mana Manipulator, or if I'm being attacked a lot Giant's Belt
(Depending on how much magic damage their team has, I might go Mercury Treads + Mana Manipulator)
Complete Soul Shroud
Boots of Mobility (If I don't make Mercury's)
Complete Archangel Staff
The thing I dislike about this build, is that I don't get any AP until Archangel Staff. Lately I've been finding myself in games with better players so I've noticed that I'm starting to get more assists, which is why I've been strongly considering Soulstealer.
My plan with Zilean is to get 25.17% CDR with Glyphs/Quints of Celerity and 9/0/21. This way just by making Soul Shroud I'll have 40.00% CDR. Because I like to play Zilean with a focus on CDR, Tear of the Goddess is from what I've seen, better than Chalice. I don't have all the T3 runes I want, so I don't know how much of an impact MP/5 Seals would make. However running around with a 1.2k - 1.5k life Zilean isn't very reliable, so I've found that making Soul Shroud before finishing Archangel's Staff keeps me alive. Because of this I can't think of a way to improve my AP any sooner, or how to balance Soul Shroud and Soulstealer while still being able to spam Q/W/E/R as necessary.
And I think the most epic teamfight I've had with Zilean was this crazy game we ended up winning after our team started out 0-12. Near the end, I used my ulti FOUR times. I had RoA and 3.6k mana and was still running out because I had to permaslow their 5k health Morde.
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My Zilean experience:
I always find myself incredibly squishy during laning - any 2 person lane with a stun screwed me up. To alleviate this somewhat, I run HP quints and open Doran's Ring. I'm not sure about the quints, but ring is pretty much inarguable on Zil. I usually then get Tear, running either 9/21/0 with mp5 seals and glyphs (much safer, stronger laning), or 9/0/21 with CDR seal/glyphs (start with tons of CDR).
The most important thing to abuse about Zilean is his insane map presence. Boots of Mobility immediately after Tear - get your team to group up and roam while you farm lanes and ward jungle.
I'm torn between Mejai's-CDR and 40%CDR->survivability. I think it depends on the team/gameflow. If battles are over in a flash, Mejais is the best because you can dump 800 damage on someone, then revive for a ton, while the second one gives you a good chance of two ults/countless bombs per battle. Of course, SOME AP is extremely useful because of the 3:1 scaling on your ult... I also tend to make up for some of my CDR issues with bluepot - I constantly keep this on after mobiliboots.
Hmm... I have to try opening bluepot on Zil.
OH, another thing to try is stacking Rings on Zil. Dring-Tear-Mobili-Dringringring
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I main both Ashe and Twitch and I always rush IE after getting boots. Getting the brutalizer + ghostblade is great in the mid game for ganks, but severely cripples your late game damage output which is where you should be contributing. CDR is useless on Ashe as there is no real difference between waiting for 75 seconds to 65 seconds. The damage from IE is better from the beginning and scales way better with additional attack damage items.
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On August 28 2010 17:58 Kultcher wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2010 17:34 scintilliaSD wrote:On August 28 2010 17:20 redtooth wrote:because this chick doesn't have voracity? actually, how did you even make a comparison like that? the AD or AP ult? i don't see how else she's similar lol.
although... i do like movespeed heroes.
LIVING LIFE ON THE EDGE, UTILITY MASTERY KAT. Bouncing Attack based off AD? Healing reduction? Moreover, to me Kat's biggest strength has always been her ult. Obviously I don't know the numbers but clearly the ults are similar in that they are big AoE damage dealers that hit multiple times in rapid succession and they scale similarly. While Misfortune doesn't have Shunpo to get in position for it, she doesn't need to because she's ranged anyway. zzzzzz. kat's biggest strength by far is voracity and the fact that she can cast 4 consecutive shunpos in the middle of a fight. her second biggest strength is that outside of pantheon/vladimir she can face-stomp any other mid in the game (especially ezreal). i've literally gone entire fights without casting my ult simply because i'd rather take advantage of super shunpo burst damage and voracity. i'm just being picky but i can't see how the two characters are even remotely alike.
On August 29 2010 01:19 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
In other news does anyone know what the difference is between bronze, gold, dark blue and bright silver are for these? bright silver is best (prob like platinum). i know you get it when you have over 500 wins but i don't know for the other stats. when ranked first came out i was calling Knaan a baddie for having a "silver" games won badge but it turned out it was platinum haha.
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On August 29 2010 02:53 Jazriel wrote:
I still don't understand the mentality of "Hurr durr IE on Ashe." I never get IE on Ashe and I have yet to see an Ashe in a pubby unranked game come even close to how effective I am with her (and they're usually inferiour players, my Ashe is pretty good). Having flexible, low to medium costed items that slowly builds up into into higher damage; isn't that plainly superiour?
Boots + Pot
Brutalizer
(In no particular order: )
Upgraded boots
Phage -> Frozen Mallet
LW
I don't see how anyone could want IE over that.
Sounds pretty meh to me. Those items are great by themselves, but your build has no real direction. Afaik LW is applied after APen, and doesn't work with Volley. So the APen and CDR of Brutalizer don't synergize well with LW. Frozen Mallet probably is a great defensive item (haven't tried it yet), but with just those items you have rather low DPS for the money, especially against chars with mediocre defense/high health.
This stuff together costs around 6500 gold, excluding boots. For that money I can get Bruta + Ghostblade + some defense for ~2500 gold (maybe Phage + Belt if I were to work towards Mallet).
On August 29 2010 05:11 JokerSan wrote:
I main both Ashe and Twitch and I always rush IE after getting boots. Getting the brutalizer + ghostblade is great in the mid game for ganks, but severely cripples your late game damage output which is where you should be contributing. CDR is useless on Ashe as there is no real difference between waiting for 75 seconds to 65 seconds. The damage from IE is better from the beginning and scales way better with additional attack damage items.
If my calculations above are correct, the damage with IE is just a bit better than with Ghost/Bruta. This doesn't take into account the active of Ghostblade (a decent dps boost for 4 seconds, or a free ghost), and the 25% (40% if you get the runes/masteries) more damage from Volley (definitely one of the major sources of damage in teambattles), and 25% more Arrows is huge, 40% is epic.
Bruta/Ghost synergizes fairly well with IE actually, if you get that for lategame. BT + LW + IE might be a tad better than GB + Bruta + IE against defense heavy tanks, but against higher priority targets I would assume that it's even at the very least. Again, Volley doesn't get anything from LW because Volley is not an autoattack, so there goes a lot of LW's effectivity. The other option against tanks would be Madreds, and Ghostblade synergizes better with Madreds than IE because of the active.
But the main point of Ghostblade + Bruta is that you can actually apply a lot of pressure as soon as you finish those 2 items and start chugging red pots. The low cooldown on ECA lets you punish careless opponents hard, and allows you to initiate a lot of fights. In which the 40% more Volley spam is amazing.
When I still was using the pure AD Ashe build, I would either lose a game or win it after 45++ minutes. With Bruta/GB, a win usually takes no more than 30 minutes. I can get a defensive item without losing a lot of relative strength because of the increased utility.
Also don't underestimate the 40% more Hawkshots. Map awareness can't be valued enough.
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What runes should I get for Malph? I just hit level 20 and have the ip to spare.
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On August 29 2010 06:53 unsoundlogic wrote:
What runes should I get for Malph? I just hit level 20 and have the ip to spare.
Mpen reds, your choice on yellow (armor/18, armor, mr/18 and possibly dodge are the best options depending on your playstyle), cdr or MResist/18 blues, health quints.
If you take the dodge yellows you could even go ahead and get movement speed quints to surf around the lanes with your rock shard. Flat armor yellows will make you immortal for the first 5 levels, but will greatly lose power later on.
@spinesheath and pretty much anyone speaking about LW: its effect only applies to your right click, it does NOT affect skills of any sort. I pretty much agree on all the other points you made.
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On August 29 2010 07:04 r33k wrote:
@spinesheath and pretty much anyone speaking about LW: its effect only applies to your right click, it does NOT affect skills of any sort. I pretty much agree on all the other points you made.
Wasn't that exactly what I was saying? I read the posts where it was explained and I pretty much decided to believe them :p
Maybe my wording was unclear?
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Someone give me skill level up for Garen. And item build.
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On August 29 2010 07:10 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2010 07:04 r33k wrote:
@spinesheath and pretty much anyone speaking about LW: its effect only applies to your right click, it does NOT affect skills of any sort. I pretty much agree on all the other points you made. Wasn't that exactly what I was saying? I read the posts where it was explained and I pretty much decided to believe them :p Maybe my wording was unclear?
I'm not sure about LW being applied after the flat APen, the rest was just a tl:dr recap on LW.
On August 29 2010 07:18 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Someone give me skill level up for Garen. And item build.
First 3 levels are EQW, then R>Q>E>W, get a 1v2 lane, pump the good tank items: take all the HoGs you can afford before min.13, GA, Randuins, Sunfires, FoN depending on the situation, Frozen Mallet if you feel like you can be offensive.
Some people prioritize E over Q, the speed boost from Q is just invaluable to me to advocate against maxing it first tho. Also ofc mallet's effect isn't applied by E.
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On August 29 2010 07:18 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Someone give me skill level up for Garen. And item build.
E, Q, E, W, E, R
R > E > W or Q (depends)
I used to go boots + pots, straight into sunfire then more tanky. Now I've been going boots + pots, brutalizer, and then sunfire/tanky. The CDR is nice and you can abuse his E even more early game.
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EPT
