League of Legends [New forum, check OP!] - Page 638

i got in a big argument with WRAWRAWRAWRAWRAWRAWRA in liquidparty about

WHY MADRED'S BLOODRAZER IS A BAD FIRST ITEM ON WARWICK

i know southlight is a big mathcrafter so i think he might agree with me once i lay this out. from lol's website:

Madred's Bloodrazor 3800

+30 Attack Damage +40% Attack Speed +25 Armor UNIQUE Passive: On hit, deals Magic Damage equal to 4% of the target's maximum Health.

so with BR's, you're spending the equivalent of 2 BF sword's, OR a FoN+MercTreads+NullMantle, OR a LastWhisper+2HoG, OR Atma's+Giant'sBelt+HealthGem OR... the list goes on and on. basically it's a fucking expensive item.

now, assuming you *want* the Madred's Razors on a jungling champ, for jungle speed and dragon threat (which i won't argue against), lets take a look at the benefit of the next 3k gold spent towards BR's:

15 Attack Damage
2 Armor
40% ASpd
LOSS of the 500 hit chance on minions
*4% of the target's maximum health dealt in MAGIC damage*

Essentially you're paying 2800 gold for a recurve bow, a long sword, and the passive. So that brings to question the value of the passive - is 4% of health in MAGIC damage worth 1300 gold?

I run Magic Resist runes on all champs. I know not everyone does, but I think it's safe to assume that your opponents are going to have at least 30 magic resist and 30 armor, even without them, right? That's 25% reduction right there, and i'd say that's the *minimum* you're going to see. Lets say that when you ult (BR's are custom built for WW's ult!) your target is veigar, a squishy champ. according to lol's website, veigar's got Health 355 (+82 / per level) or 847 HP at level 6 with no HP items.

having just completed your BRs, you jump him and ult, striking 5 times for Damage 56.76 (+3.375 / per level) + 30 -25%resistance or 80 Physical PLUS the magic passive of 847*0.04 -25% resistance or 25.4 magic damage per hit! That's 105.4 damage per hit, or 527 damage! From your ult alone, you did just over half of veigar's health! Having thrown yourself into the fray, and not having boots, you're stunned, focused, and killed instantly.

now let's give veigar a fighting chance and say that while you were blowing 1050 gold on a recurve bow that doesn't even help with your ult one bit, veigar used that money to buy merc treads. he's now got 50 Mres (33% reduction) as well as 35% reduced stun (read: your ult) time. now i'm not 100% sure how WW's ult reacts with merc treads, i *think* you only get 3 hits off, but you might get 4. i'm just going to give an overall 35% reduction to the damage to be fair to both sides.

you foolishly jump in on veigar and do Damage 56.76 (+3.375 / per level) + 30 -25%resistance or 80 Physical PLUS the magic passive of 847*0.04 -33% or 22 magic damage per hit! 5 hits, Reduced 35% because veigar is madly clicking away from you, nets you a whopping 331.5 damage. Again, since you rushed BR's, you've got no escape mechanism, and are gunned down mercilessly.

and this is taking into consideration *all* of the damage from BR's, not just what you paid for with the 1300. *just considering the 1300 gold to get the passive*, you added only 125 damage to your ult on bootless veigar, and only 68.25 damage to merc veigar.

in a standing fight 1v1 with someone with 1500 hp and base 30 magic res, you add 45 damage per hit

in a standing fight 1v1 with someone with 1500 hp and treads, you add 39 damage per hit.

in a standing fight 1v1 with a tank with 2200 HP (BR is an anti-hp item! tank is going down!) who, with your 2800 gold spent to complete BR, wisely got treads and 2 negatrons (and a health potion... and a ward), you add 29 damage per hit.




...

okay that's a lot of math and a lot of numbers and i got 3 hours of sleep and i'm sure i made an error somewhere that someone (shikyo amirite) will be glad to point out. i'm not saying madred's is a bad item. i'm saying (and getting ridiculed for saying) that madred's is a bad FIRST item ON WARWICK. without showing the math, lets say you bought the 2 BF swords after your madred's razors. you jump a bootless veigar you do 892.5 damage and kill him with just your ult. you do 580 do a merc tread veigar. you do 571.5 to a ninja tabi veigar (god forbid). with the 2800 gold if you buy a HoG and an avarice blade for the gimme-gold, and turn them into an AoE snare and a free Ghost spell later, you've still got enough for your boots2 and wards.

and i know BR's give you the threat of baroning, which is huge, but you threaten Baron for 3800 gold. i can counter your baron threat for 5 minutes with 90 gold. gg?

and yes, i know, the more HP a champ has, the more damage it's going to do. but you're going to jump their squishy, right? they don't have HP growth. your damage growth potential is small with them. if you jump a smart tank, they've got at least 100 magic resist, they're taking 50% less magic damage at the cost of something like 1950 gold (treads + a negatron + their base mres), HALVING the effectiveness of your BR, for HALF the cost.


so yeah, there's my argument why BR's are a bad first item (and a questionable item at all, for the cost) on warwick. WRAWRAWRA's argument (as well as B12ad, whoever that is) was that BR's should 100% of the time (EzPz knocked it down to 90% of the time) Warwick's first item.


feel free to continue ridiculing me