On August 09 2010 09:03 Southlight wrote: He has no lasting power (melee that take solo usually have a means of diverting damage ala Mord/Udyr or have crazy healing ala Garen/GP/Gragas) and his only means of harassment requires him to tank creep for however long (due to diving past creep and autoattacking = all the creep turn around and hit you) which means, for instance, if I'm Kassadin and you try that I'll Q you and then hit you back, and it'll be Xin vs Kassadin+X creep. Other heroes you usually see mid, like Vlad and Ezreal/Trist, both have means of negating your charge and have massive ranged attacks that pewpewpew you and at the very least prevent you from farming.
but he does have healing, its not the best, but once you've got the other solomid on their toes after you've combowrecked them once or twice, you can zone them and get plenty of farm/healing. Also, ive found it fairly easy to bait ez and vlad's teleport/pool (i rarely see trists at all, and have never fought them as xin, so idk about that), so i find that to be of minimal consequence. To make it even easier to bait said teleport/pool, it might even be worth getting boots first just to that you can walk up to them and q them in the face.
Yes, he does tank creeps, but i find his style to be similar to that of kat's, she also blades-shunpo's them and then walks back to her side of the creeps while taking some creep hits, i do something similar to this except that it isnt quite as instant, but does more dmg. Imo, its all about comparative dmg taken, and ive found that against most mids, i will deal more dmg than i take, so it seems worth it to me.
also, does kass's q silence xin's q after its already started? if it does, then yes, you will wreck xin @ mid, and just means that ppl who can interrupt combos will do well against xins, since its all about the e+q combo that gives you lane control.
edit: i suppose i should just say that i dont think xin is the best solo mid, and as you said earlier, he does very well in a dual lane, but i dont think he is garbage @ mid by any means, and given less optimal options for mid (teemo mid haha), i think he does better than some who regularly go mid.
On August 09 2010 09:03 Southlight wrote: He has no lasting power (melee that take solo usually have a means of diverting damage ala Mord/Udyr or have crazy healing ala Garen/GP/Gragas) and his only means of harassment requires him to tank creep for however long (due to diving past creep and autoattacking = all the creep turn around and hit you) which means, for instance, if I'm Kassadin and you try that I'll Q you and then hit you back, and it'll be Xin vs Kassadin+X creep. Other heroes you usually see mid, like Vlad and Ezreal/Trist, both have means of negating your charge and have massive ranged attacks that pewpewpew you and at the very least prevent you from farming.
but he does have healing, its not the best, but once you've got the other solomid on their toes after you've combowrecked them once or twice, you can zone them and get plenty of farm/healing. Also, ive found it fairly easy to bait ez and vlad's teleport/pool (i rarely see trists at all, and have never fought them as xin, so idk about that), so i find that to be of minimal consequence. To make it even easier to bait said teleport/pool, it might even be worth getting boots first just to that you can walk up to them and q them in the face.
Yes, he does tank creeps, but i find his style to be similar to that of kat's, she also blades-shunpo's them and then walks back to her side of the creeps while taking some creep hits, i do something similar to this except that it isnt quite as instant, but does more dmg. Imo, its all about comparative dmg taken, and ive found that against most mids, i will deal more dmg than i take, so it seems worth it to me.
also, does kass's q silence xin's q after its already started? if it does, then yes, you will wreck xin @ mid, and just means that ppl who can interrupt combos will do well against xins, since its all about the e+q combo that gives you lane control.
1) You won't get other solo mids "on their toes" unless it's an innately inferior 1v1 hero or they suck. The majority of heroes will constantly bombard you with crap. That's why I've talked about how you can tell if someone has less HP, you'll crush them with attrition. 2) If you're finding it easy to "bait" escape skills then you're playing against bad people. Ez should be able to hammer you whenever you try to do anything, and in the off chance you do actually charge Ezreal he'll simply teleport an inch to nail you with it and resume hitting you. All the while he'll make sure you're in range of the creep so when you try to chase Ezreal (or you back off) you're constantly being pummeled by the creep. Nice bait. Oh wait, we were talking about Xin doing the baiting, not Ezreal. 3) Kat's shunpo only works against other melee (whom thus would need to have the reaction speed to strike back before she leaves range) or against idiots. Shunpo against Ezreal and you'll eat like a zillion hits trying to return stateside, etc. 4) Pretty sure it doesn't. My point is it doesn't matter. Kass' base damage is high enough, he attacks fast enough (esp with the passive attack speed boost lolol! and then with W's armor pen), and the creep do so much damage that your only hope is to W, Q, then run home, except I'm obviously not gonna let you just get away like that. I'm going to be autoattacking you all the way until you get back in range enough for YOUR creep to assist you. If you play against a Kass who just goes OMG HE'S ONTO ME and runs yeah, you'll win. Because he's not doing anything.
Bought Mundo on my smurf for when I 3v3 with friends but dunno how to build him. I never see mundo's in this game and when I do they're awful. Do I build him as an HP tank, or a hp regen tank? (lol) I think I've seen starks built on him too...
On August 09 2010 09:11 Southlight wrote: I think he excels as a sidelane partner in general, due to the two quick CCs, which combos well into a third CC (double-stun combo), and his decent burst. But solo mid he'll only crush people that panic when a melee hero charges into them and do nothing except run. Or late-game autoattack heroes with zero burst (TF/Ashe).
I don't have many problems with Xin (at least early on) as TF. I usually cycle cards while last hitting so when he charges i just hit gold card and stun him before TTS procs then I can safely back off and hit him once or twice more while he takes creep damage.
On August 09 2010 09:11 Southlight wrote: I think he excels as a sidelane partner in general, due to the two quick CCs, which combos well into a third CC (double-stun combo), and his decent burst. But solo mid he'll only crush people that panic when a melee hero charges into them and do nothing except run. Or late-game autoattack heroes with zero burst (TF/Ashe).
I don't have many problems with Xin (at least early on) as TF. I usually cycle cards while last hitting so when he charges i just hit gold card and stun him before TTS procs then I can safely back off and hit him once or twice more while he takes creep damage.
I've no idea, I just remember before the nerfs Chrispy chewed up TFs like he was eating chocolate chip cookies. Were they bad and just panicking? Maybe, I wasn't watching :p
On August 09 2010 10:51 HazMat wrote: Bought Mundo on my smurf for when I 3v3 with friends but dunno how to build him. I never see mundo's in this game and when I do they're awful. Do I build him as an HP tank, or a hp regen tank? (lol) I think I've seen starks built on him too...
MUNDO QUESTION!
So. For Twisted Treeline, you simply have to build so that your ult will let you survive most of the fight. That's really all there is to it.
My favorite build is something like Spirit Visage Boots Stinger. After that, it doesn't matter very much. Usually, a chainmail or negatron cloak as appropriate to their team (on TT almost always chainmail), then some +damage item or stack zeals. Also, buy wards for your team whenever you can. Wards win TT, and you don't really have farming problems anyways.
Reasoning: SV because the Mres is nice and the +heal is nice, and 10% CDR is awesome. (You will always be at full health after SV.) NOTE: Apparently, someone did some math to show that Giant's Belt gets you as much heal from your ult as SV while giving you an extra 400+ hp. It doesn't, however, let you cleaver more often and constantly keep masochism on. Personal preference. Stinger because permacleaver permamasochism and healing half your hp every 30 secs is pretty nice and mundo longs for attackspeed.
That's pretty much it. Skills are R>E=Q>W, based on team matchup, only hard rules are always start cleaver and only grab lots of W if they have lots of CC or you're pushing really hard (the damage hurts extremely much.)
Fucking terrible laning partners I swear to god. Trynd who manages to die 3 times pre-6 with me as Taric because he rushes straight in after I stun to get him out and heal him. 1/7 Malphite who flees every time a good fight would come up and charges in 2v4.
I hate this game sometimes, but it's so much fun the rest
On August 09 2010 11:41 Niton wrote: I hate this game sometimes, but it's so much fun the rest
im pretty much only having fun smurfing recently. my problem is im not a phenomenal player and i dont really play any hard carries. so i keep getting thrown back into the crappy players pool. going on a 5 game win streak and then losing again. its just really meh...
Yo can someone decent commit to some duo queue games tonight with me? I'm firmly entrenched in 1300 and I'd like to start climbing a bit so I can get less terribad pubs. I play shen/xin/vlad all 60% winrate and a couple niche champs too. I get home from work in a little more than an hour and I'd like 3-5 games, and yes I do have vent. Playing with my friends is fun but I'm tired of how bad these 1200-1350 pubs are, so I'd like to game with someone my Elo or higher...
I wish I could guarantee a solo lane in every game I play in. I'll gladly take my Nasus against any lane opponent(s), but when I've got an ally stepping on my toes it makes things... difficult.
On August 09 2010 10:00 Teejing wrote: hey yo guys, so how should sion be played? =)
Also, does his "+50dmg -10 life" skill count to trigger the " +80% dmg after spell" item ?
Nope, and neither does popping shield. Still, rush Sheen. I'm a fan of ap and hybrid, dps imo is just too stupidly squishy. 80% crit on a char with no real self-defense is just bad imo.
Open blue gem+1+1 or doran's ring+1, then get tome->boots->sheen, from there look at how the game is going and pick your path. Go for merc's threads/lichbane if you're facing heavy magic, otherwise you'll love going glacial shroud, armor first if you're having trouble, mana gem otherwise and vs stupid ranged harassment making you spam shields.
Glacial shroud can be upgraded as your 5th item into frozen heart so you'll take a weight off your support teammate's chest. Some people prefer Nashor's tooth to it but it's really up to you.
Lichbane is your bread and butter endgame item if you're just going AP, banshee's veil is a nice addition in any game thanks to the raw +mana and +health other than for its unique. Z-ring for pure AP builds when you're getting focused is really nice. Soulstealer if needed, as usual.
Wit's end deserves a special word: it's amazing. Seriously, after you have sheen/boots2/glacial shroud unless they really have no AP chars build it, the AS and MR are stats you'll love.
With AP sion learn to harass and last hit with shield, the shield's explosion range is little past melee, therefore Ghost is mandatory for getting a shield hit off when chasing or when running away. Make sure to know how many/what skills from your laning opponent will waste your shield and make sure to pop it right before they do.
Pre-shield in hard situations, only use Q for ganks and escaping, it's not your harassment tool.
Your ult will allow you to stay in the lane pretty much forever, and it will trigger Sheen aswell. Thanks to its relatively short CD you should use it in every teamfight and whenever you're sure you'll be hitting enough stuff to fill your health.
I generally open QWE and QEW when playing 1v2, then your priority should be either R>W>E>Q or R>E>W>Q if the situation is static and you want to farm more hp for later. After getting E you'll pretty much always keep it turned on, maybe at lv 3 in a hard lane you should just focus on turning it on for lasthitting to prevent wasting hp on a taunt, but you won't really notice.
Sion is an amazing 1v2er, the only char who's harassment is able to give him trouble is Zilean, with a special mention going to AP kata.
Keep in mind that you're not a tank. You're squishier than Garen, Udyr, Tankplank and if you don't build any tankiness you're even squishier than Blitz and Jax, so keep that in mind. Lategame your shield will hit for a lot, but remember that it will soak just as much. If you're getting focused first in teamfights just run in and don't pop it, get a feel of how much of their dmg you can eat before popping zhonya's.
For your summoner skills as I previously said always get ghost, the 2nd one is really up to you. If you're going for a 10/0/20 build feel free to get ignite, for 9/0/21 builds get exhaust or teleport. Sion is a really good tower killer, jump in, pop shield to clear a wave and ult their tower down.
Does anyone have a good guide on Katarina or a really indepth guide on shaco? 'Cause i am lost on how to build katarina and the guides on leaguecraft don't help at all.
And with shaco, I'm starting to question why i even open with fort pot? I think im using it wrong. If i open with fort pot, am i supposed to get some early kills? Even after that my build is like: 1. Berzerker Greaves 2. Executioner's Calling 3. Infinity's Edge
And i build w/e depending on the game situation after. But i find that everytime we fight before infinity's edge I am useless. But once i get it, i just roll but i think that might be more of a pub build, since that is expensive for just 3 items.
Recently I played a higher lvl arranged 5v5 (Note that i am not at lvl 30 yet) I was shaco and they had shaco. We finished the game with similar scores, I had 5/3/2, He had 5/2/4. And all i did was copy his build. His build was: 1: Sheen 2: Boots of Mobility 3. I think he was building infinity's edge, but the game ended before it.
After seeing this build i was wondering if sheen might be a better opening since, it gives +80% base dmg. Or do a hybrid of both builds or something going like 1. Sheen 2. Berzerker Greaves 3. Infinity's Edge 4. Executioner's Calling
But basically i have no idea, so help me please. D=
On August 09 2010 09:03 Southlight wrote: He has no lasting power (melee that take solo usually have a means of diverting damage ala Mord/Udyr or have crazy healing ala Garen/GP/Gragas) and his only means of harassment requires him to tank creep for however long (due to diving past creep and autoattacking = all the creep turn around and hit you) which means, for instance, if I'm Kassadin and you try that I'll Q you and then hit you back, and it'll be Xin vs Kassadin+X creep. Other heroes you usually see mid, like Vlad and Ezreal/Trist, both have means of negating your charge and have massive ranged attacks that pewpewpew you and at the very least prevent you from farming.
but he does have healing, its not the best, but once you've got the other solomid on their toes after you've combowrecked them once or twice, you can zone them and get plenty of farm/healing. Also, ive found it fairly easy to bait ez and vlad's teleport/pool (i rarely see trists at all, and have never fought them as xin, so idk about that), so i find that to be of minimal consequence. To make it even easier to bait said teleport/pool, it might even be worth getting boots first just to that you can walk up to them and q them in the face.
Yes, he does tank creeps, but i find his style to be similar to that of kat's, she also blades-shunpo's them and then walks back to her side of the creeps while taking some creep hits, i do something similar to this except that it isnt quite as instant, but does more dmg. Imo, its all about comparative dmg taken, and ive found that against most mids, i will deal more dmg than i take, so it seems worth it to me.
also, does kass's q silence xin's q after its already started? if it does, then yes, you will wreck xin @ mid, and just means that ppl who can interrupt combos will do well against xins, since its all about the e+q combo that gives you lane control.
3) Kat's shunpo only works against other melee (whom thus would need to have the reaction speed to strike back before she leaves range) or against idiots. Shunpo against Ezreal and you'll eat like a zillion hits trying to return stateside, etc.
psssshhhhh that's what you say. when you have 400 movespeed at level 1 and have the movements of a goddess, ezreal becomes one of the easiest matchups you can have. also i think outside of uta you guys don't really understand how mid works do you. pure melee heroes (not named pantheon) without heal don't win mid, period. haven't played in a while but i'll glad take any challenge 1v1 mid from those that disagree.
apurplecow: i know you defended yourself earlier by saying that you play against lowbies and have a different experience and situation than others... but if anything that should show you NOT to hand out advice in this thread and disagree when someone (especially someone with credibility) says you're incorrect. vamp scepter is not a good first item in 99% of situations and you'd understand that if you knew how lane-pushing/zoning worked.
EPT
