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On August 08 2010 22:19 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Okay so can you name the 90% of what are considered tanks that have no way to force damage upon themselves and the 10% that do?
My definition of tank has two requirements:
1) Natural damage reduction or HP scaling
2) Taunts or an AOE stun or disable.
I'm not arguing that tanking items aren't good on other heroes, but those heroes have no means to force/reduce damage. They are banking on the other teams stupidity. I play Garen all the time and when I don't get focused I have to deal with idiots saying. "WHY DIDN'T YOU TANK THEM NOOB?"
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On August 08 2010 22:03 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2010 20:35 Shikyo wrote:
Shen I'd still consider better than both Rammus and Alistar. He might not be as good as an actual tank tank, but as a damage-dealing tank and a ganker I think he's overall a better champion, not to mention his ability to countergank and save people.
It's kind of silly to argue like that, you could say that Rammus is a better tank than Annie, which still doesn't mean he's a better champion overall, etc. Idk shen is kinda mediocre whereas rammus wins games past 40 minutes.
Well Shen peaks alot earlier, most games never last over 30 mins anyway.
I'm not arguing that tanking items aren't good on other heroes, but those heroes have no means to force/reduce damage. They are banking on the other teams stupidity. I play Garen all the time and when I don't get focused I have to deal with idiots saying. "WHY DIDN'T YOU TANK THEM NOOB?" Yeah, Garen is much more of an early game dominator and a towerdiver and overall badass who never dies, but he's not a tank. He's a tough early/mid carry.
Most people don't understand that making tanking items doesn't mean you become a tank. Building tanking items on gangplank doesn't make him a tank, it makes him not die in 0.2 seconds so he can accomplish something.
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On August 08 2010 20:31 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Taric Rammus Amumu all top tier tanks.
You can't say that "nobody but taric is a tank", that's just retarded.
Taric is only a tank as long as the enemy doesn't have Ignite/GP/Trist.
Seriously, so much of his stuff relies on heals, he'll be burst down by any spell easily if ignited. His high passive armor is a plus, but I don't find building MR on him any more as viable or conducive to being a tank as building AP.
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On August 08 2010 22:29 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2010 22:19 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Okay so can you name the 90% of what are considered tanks that have no way to force damage upon themselves and the 10% that do? My definition of tank has two requirements: 1) Natural damage reduction or HP scaling 2) Taunts or an AOE stun or disable. I'm not arguing that tanking items aren't good on other heroes, but those heroes have no means to force/reduce damage. They are banking on the other teams stupidity. I play Garen all the time and when I don't get focused I have to deal with idiots saying. "WHY DIDN'T YOU TANK THEM NOOB?"
Right, but what I'm saying is that your "90% of what are considered tanks" phrase was overexaggerated.
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lolol, Zerg_russian, how u build your ap cho? i need a little insight xD
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So anyone know if we're getting the new patch and champion this week?
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On August 08 2010 23:38 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2010 22:29 keV. wrote:On August 08 2010 22:19 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Okay so can you name the 90% of what are considered tanks that have no way to force damage upon themselves and the 10% that do? My definition of tank has two requirements: 1) Natural damage reduction or HP scaling 2) Taunts or an AOE stun or disable. I'm not arguing that tanking items aren't good on other heroes, but those heroes have no means to force/reduce damage. They are banking on the other teams stupidity. I play Garen all the time and when I don't get focused I have to deal with idiots saying. "WHY DIDN'T YOU TANK THEM NOOB?" Right, but what I'm saying is that your "90% of what are considered tanks" phrase was overexaggerated.
I enjoy when people tell Blitz to tank :/
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8751 Posts
On August 08 2010 22:29 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2010 22:19 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Okay so can you name the 90% of what are considered tanks that have no way to force damage upon themselves and the 10% that do? My definition of tank has two requirements: 1) Natural damage reduction or HP scaling 2) Taunts or an AOE stun or disable. I'm not arguing that tanking items aren't good on other heroes, but those heroes have no means to force/reduce damage. They are banking on the other teams stupidity. I play Garen all the time and when I don't get focused I have to deal with idiots saying. "WHY DIDN'T YOU TANK THEM NOOB?"
If Amumu didn't have damage reduction from Tantrum, I think he'd still be a good tank. His Q and R prevent tons of damage. And in a different way, I guess his W and E help him tank too, since they're either causing opponents to focus an Amumu with stacked MR/Armor or they're causing opponents to run away and spread out so that Amumu can't do AE damage. So I'm just saying that Amumu doesn't need your first criterion to tank.
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How2buildJanna?
I've pretty much tried everything and nothing seems particularly better than others. AP seems to work well-ish. DPS seems to work ok . Tanky seems to work ok. CDR-heavy seems to work ok.
I've settled on a push-heavy build with Guinsoo's rageblade and Aegis of the legion as core. Seems to work out the best so far, but that's not necessarily what you'd want for premade teams.
As far as skillbuild goes, I'm confused too, because all three of her skills are good.
- Tornado for push power and very long-range AoE damage
- Zephyr for reliable nuke and nuke. The slow diff between level 1-5 is pretty huge
- Shield for imba laning and tower defense + support.
There doesn't seem to be much incentive on maxing one over the other.
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I build janna with a little mana, a little CDR, and a lot of support items (like starks) that ends up being kinda tanky. But I also have no clue really when it comes to her.
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On August 09 2010 00:39 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2010 22:29 keV. wrote:On August 08 2010 22:19 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Okay so can you name the 90% of what are considered tanks that have no way to force damage upon themselves and the 10% that do? My definition of tank has two requirements: 1) Natural damage reduction or HP scaling 2) Taunts or an AOE stun or disable. I'm not arguing that tanking items aren't good on other heroes, but those heroes have no means to force/reduce damage. They are banking on the other teams stupidity. I play Garen all the time and when I don't get focused I have to deal with idiots saying. "WHY DIDN'T YOU TANK THEM NOOB?" If Amumu didn't have damage reduction from Tantrum, I think he'd still be a good tank. His Q and R prevent tons of damage. And in a different way, I guess his W and E help him tank too, since they're either causing opponents to focus an Amumu with stacked MR/Armor or they're causing opponents to run away and spread out so that Amumu can't do AE damage. So I'm just saying that Amumu doesn't need your first criterion to tank.
I agree, but I do think that Amumu by himself will work, but not be optimal. One of the half tanks like Garen/Morde/Singed, Nasus in particular is excellent with Amumu.
I don't think you need a tank to win in this game, and just because a hero maybe doesn't get called one by doesn't mean he isn't an amazingly good champion. Amumu in particular: his abilities are useful for any team for sure.
You don't even need to pick a criteria meeting champion to get the benefits that a pure tank might provide. There are combinations of heroes and items that can fill the roll of control and management just as well.
The only reason I mention this stuff is because of how undeveloped the competitive side of LoL is at the moment. In DotA and HoN you have this robust architecture of picks and counter picks and you see intelligent picking at all levels of play (Not always obviously).
When talking about LoL, though maybe more common at the highest level, it certainly isn't common at any other level of the game. A part of this is just because of the nature of the game being free and most people only have access to a few picks.
I'd just rather things be broken down into multiple tags as opposed to TANK, DPS or SUPPORT. Sometimes someone will pick a non-criteria meeting champion, like Mordekaiser/Garen and because of the tag he wears, it can steer the rest of your team in to poor picks.
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bulding janna as a ward machine is fun with soulshroud boots then just wards >_>
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8751 Posts
On August 09 2010 01:35 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2010 00:39 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On August 08 2010 22:29 keV. wrote:On August 08 2010 22:19 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Okay so can you name the 90% of what are considered tanks that have no way to force damage upon themselves and the 10% that do? My definition of tank has two requirements: 1) Natural damage reduction or HP scaling 2) Taunts or an AOE stun or disable. I'm not arguing that tanking items aren't good on other heroes, but those heroes have no means to force/reduce damage. They are banking on the other teams stupidity. I play Garen all the time and when I don't get focused I have to deal with idiots saying. "WHY DIDN'T YOU TANK THEM NOOB?" If Amumu didn't have damage reduction from Tantrum, I think he'd still be a good tank. His Q and R prevent tons of damage. And in a different way, I guess his W and E help him tank too, since they're either causing opponents to focus an Amumu with stacked MR/Armor or they're causing opponents to run away and spread out so that Amumu can't do AE damage. So I'm just saying that Amumu doesn't need your first criterion to tank. The only reason I mention this stuff is because of how undeveloped the competitive side of LoL is at the moment. In DotA and HoN you have this robust architecture of picks and counter picks and you see intelligent picking at all levels of play (Not always obviously). When talking about LoL, though maybe more common at the highest level, it certainly isn't common at any other level of the game. A part of this is just because of the nature of the game being free and most people only have access to a few picks.
Hopefully the WCG tournament will get the highest level going a bit!
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So I just checked my unranked (still lvl 19) and it's 1446, anyone can tell me what skill level that translate to? I'm guessing it's right around average. My soloq matches are giving me high blood pressure I think.
Annie on my team feeds a tank blitz solo mid. Same game, TF on my team feeds a tank Cho'gath. Tank Cho's build? 3 Heart of Gold, summoner spells Heal+Fortify! How can you let a Cho built like that kill you? It also didn't help that we had an AFK EZ from lvl 1 that came back when everyone else was lvl 6 so he could feed Zilean. grgrghhhhhhaaahhhh
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On August 08 2010 18:03 RoieTRS wrote:
If the role of a "tank" is to keep his teamates alive, Taric is the only good tank. None of the other "tanks" perform that role well, or even at all. They just have a bunch of hp. Especially because of the existence of clense.
I disagree with all of the people saying that the role of a tank is to absorb damage, since most tanks don't really give enemies a reason to attack them.
The role of a tank in LoL, is to initiate, stay in the battle dealing sustained damage--usually from skills--during the entire team fight (whereas DPS champs would be concerned with positioning and staying safe and not DPS for much of the team fight), and to provide utility. Tanks can afford to initiate and be in the middle of the teamfight providing sustained DPS and utility because they have so much EHP.
Some of the top tanks have:
Mumu:
Iniation --> bandage wrap
Sustained damage --> Despair+Tantrum
Utility --> ult
Rammus:
Initiation --> powerball, possibly with flash
Sustained damage --> ult
Utility --> 3 second stun (taunt), AoE slow
Xin Zhao:
Initation --> charge
Sustained damage --> auto attacks with +AS and +damage from skills, ult
Utility --> aoe slow, constant stuns
On August 09 2010 00:39 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2010 22:29 keV. wrote:On August 08 2010 22:19 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Okay so can you name the 90% of what are considered tanks that have no way to force damage upon themselves and the 10% that do? My definition of tank has two requirements: 1) Natural damage reduction or HP scaling 2) Taunts or an AOE stun or disable. I'm not arguing that tanking items aren't good on other heroes, but those heroes have no means to force/reduce damage. They are banking on the other teams stupidity. I play Garen all the time and when I don't get focused I have to deal with idiots saying. "WHY DIDN'T YOU TANK THEM NOOB?" If Amumu didn't have damage reduction from Tantrum, I think he'd still be a good tank. His Q and R prevent tons of damage. And in a different way, I guess his W and E help him tank too, since they're either causing opponents to focus an Amumu with stacked MR/Armor or they're causing opponents to run away and spread out so that Amumu can't do AE damage. So I'm just saying that Amumu doesn't need your first criterion to tank.
Mumu can tank hard because, while he doesn't have damage reduction, he is an extremely fast jungler which lets him farm enough tank items to take hits.
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On August 09 2010 01:57 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2010 01:35 keV. wrote:On August 09 2010 00:39 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On August 08 2010 22:29 keV. wrote:On August 08 2010 22:19 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Okay so can you name the 90% of what are considered tanks that have no way to force damage upon themselves and the 10% that do? My definition of tank has two requirements: 1) Natural damage reduction or HP scaling 2) Taunts or an AOE stun or disable. I'm not arguing that tanking items aren't good on other heroes, but those heroes have no means to force/reduce damage. They are banking on the other teams stupidity. I play Garen all the time and when I don't get focused I have to deal with idiots saying. "WHY DIDN'T YOU TANK THEM NOOB?" If Amumu didn't have damage reduction from Tantrum, I think he'd still be a good tank. His Q and R prevent tons of damage. And in a different way, I guess his W and E help him tank too, since they're either causing opponents to focus an Amumu with stacked MR/Armor or they're causing opponents to run away and spread out so that Amumu can't do AE damage. So I'm just saying that Amumu doesn't need your first criterion to tank. The only reason I mention this stuff is because of how undeveloped the competitive side of LoL is at the moment. In DotA and HoN you have this robust architecture of picks and counter picks and you see intelligent picking at all levels of play (Not always obviously). When talking about LoL, though maybe more common at the highest level, it certainly isn't common at any other level of the game. A part of this is just because of the nature of the game being free and most people only have access to a few picks. Hopefully the WCG tournament will get the highest level going a bit!
I really do hope so. It would be cool to see this game actually earn its spot there... Not like there aren't already tons of games at WCG that don't...
I enjoy LoL, I think its a little weak as a spectator sport based on what I've played and seen so far, but hopefully WCG brings us some good play.
Finally got my champion list open. Here's how I break it down. Just my opinion people.
* = "meh I'm not really sure if this is true"
- = "edited in/persuaded"
Tank:
Alister
Amumu*
Chogath
Rammus
Shen
Half tank:
Nasus
Garen
Mordekaiser
Singed
-Xin
Support tank:
Nunu
Taric
Gragas*
Sion*
Not good right now:
Malphite
Mundo (I know hes good on TT ffs)
Any one tank or any Half tank/Support tank combo in your line would make me smile at champ select.
Edit:TBH, at this point in the game at least in my 1450-1550 bracket, I think my ideal lineup would be any 5 support tanks or half tanks.
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On August 09 2010 02:11 APurpleCow wrote:
You forgot Xin kev =P
eh. It's not that I don't think he can't fulfill the roles its just like that hes a 'gateway drug.' he opens up more tank nominations than I care to add.
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I recently discovered that making "5v5 bots" games and joining the team with the bots provides a lot of entertainment. The players are just so unbelievably bad yet it becomes challenging trying to prevent your 4 bots from feeding too much. It also provides for a lot of hilarious rage as comp stompers don't seem to be used to losing games.
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On August 09 2010 02:12 keV. wrote:eh. It's not that I don't think he can't fulfill the roles its just like that hes a 'gateway drug.' he opens up more tank nominations than I care to add.
whaaaaaaaaat
He deserves to be up there just as much as Garen and Nasus do.
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EPT
