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Raw HP is what you get when you want to minimise your Defense investments.
The best way to increase survivability is to balance health, armour, and MR--obviously, if the opponent has no magical damage, you skimp on MR, etc. Cho'Gath gets much more benefit from armour/MR than most heroes, while Rammus gets much more benefit from health than most.
Since everyone runs around with penetration marks the break even point for HP vs. Armor/Resistance becomes higher than it´s worth it to buy armor/MR for non-Tanks.
The opposite is true. Since you should balance health/armour/mr, if your opponent reduces your armour/mr, you should get more of it to compensate. If you have 50 armour, getting 20 more armour gives you 13.3% more HP. If you have 50 armour and are facing enemies with 15 APen, getting 20 more armour gives you 14.8% more HP.
Last Whisper and Void Staff, however, do reduce the efficiency of armour/mr, and you should skew towards more health than you normally would if your opponents have these items.
Having 1900 hp and 40 armor seemed significantly less effective than having 1400 hp and 80 armor,
1900HP and 40 armour is more EHP than 1400HP and 80 armour, even against a character with Brutalizer (though the difference is small, about 3%).
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Hmm hmm interesting, level 10 with Cata is the same EHP as level 10 with chain and cloth. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Well that makes me look at Cata differently again. >_>
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
HP is universally effecive vs both physical and magical damage, Cata gives mana and has an incredible passive.
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I've rarely had the passive do anything for me, especially on a roamer like Kass.
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I love clutch catalyst level ups, they're so baller. One time there was this Annie with half health versus a very low hp me and an oom and low hp Kassadin and we were doing the dance of death and he said like "Kill some minions! Kill some minions!" So I did and he leveled up and killed her.
Man ranked games are so unforgiving. From 1600 to 1560 in two games just like that. And only gaining something like 12 per win and 20 per loss means I think the 1500-1600 area is where I'm gonna sit at for a loooong time.
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i will duo queue with you seeing as i'm like 1300 ELO and i will bring down your average so you can get ez wins imo
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Bearded Elder29904 Posts
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That's kinda why I wasn't willing to ranked tonight half-awake and without proper motivation... remember when I dropped from 1570 to 1450 overnight? Yeah I ended the night like 8-10 or something. And I still flopped like 100+ it was really frustrating.
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their blitz was retarded for not running but that was super entertaining. i'd love to see that in a ranked match
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
I for once think that teleport should be a summoner spell on freaking everyone.
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Well I can't see what's the issue of <30s in ranked games. When I hit 20 I won 3 solo ranked 5v5s in a row, 1 with TF, 2 with shen, while we had 2 people in team (me and other guy) with level around 20, and opponents had all 30s (so yes, apparently there are bad 30s too), and eventually got to 8:8 win/loss ratio at around 1200 Elo, with games where I was focus fired (as Soraka) by apparently partly premade team, on lane with Cho'gath against Taric/Xin zhao, where Cho'gath (lvl 30) apparently didn't know what last hitting means and kept pushing the lane away from our tower, and then of course enemy just charged toward me and dps-ed me to death before cho'gath even could do something (not that he could do much). So yeah, lvl 30 means so much.
And it's kinda hard to influence solo normal games when there are so many dummies (that follow enemy happily into a trap in bushes, run around map at every single hero that just shows up at one lane and then disappears, running away when they can still fight and enemy is coming one by one, targetting tanks (yeah, they're big and scary, target them and not the DPS! good idea) etc etc.) without being a carry. And I usually don't play carries, since I have to pick some tank when everyone else wants to be the 'killer'.
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
Holy shit I never imagined how OP Soraka is until I tried playing her. I've single-handedly stopped like 10 sure team deaths from happening. 0 deaths on myself for the last three games.
I was a dumbfuck for going 5:10 winrate as Karthus (convincing myself "but he should be a dominating hero ffs"), I should have played those as Soraka instead.
And Soraka is unbelievably fun in a free Karthus week. It's like you just cancel his ult and he can't do shit about it.
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On July 22 2010 17:27 APurpleCow wrote:The best way to increase survivability is to balance health, armour, and MR--obviously, if the opponent has no magical damage, you skimp on MR, etc. Cho'Gath gets much more benefit from armour/MR than most heroes, while Rammus gets much more benefit from health than most.
That is exactly right but misses the point in this particular case. Cho and Rammus in particular, they optimise their Defense (not minimise investment!) because that helps them do their job.
The question is really: What do you get as Veigar who attempts to deal max damage and, realising that being dead drops your Damage to 0 need some survivability? Can you really justify a GA on a Champ like him?
To put it simply, this isn´t about maximising EHP, it´s about cheaply getting enough survivability to not melt instantly to (defacto) unavoidable burst and minimise the cost for that. You shouldn´t have to use specialised Surviviability because you shouldn´t expose yourself on the champions in question.
You get HP because it´s universal and on convenitent items (again, stuff like RoA or Rylais).
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That's why at higher elos Soraka is consistently a ban or close-to-it >_>
Edit:
OH, COMPLETELY SLIPPED MY MIND
Someone asked about Mal's ult.
I don't know if it's "Suppression" but apparently Malzahar's tooltip says it specifically disables summoner spells.
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Bearded Elder29904 Posts
On July 22 2010 18:53 gtrsrs wrote:their blitz was retarded for not running but that was super entertaining. i'd love to see that in a ranked match
Me and my team did that 5 times in a row now and those 30lvl players were suspecting something as we all had 5 teleport. We hided in the push when Blitzcrank came and suddenly he used Rocket Grab on someone of us. I was like WTF how did You know T_T but he died and his lanemate too, so it doesn't really matter.
Strange thing anyway.
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United States37500 Posts
On July 22 2010 19:34 Southlight wrote:
That's why at higher elos Soraka is consistently a ban or close-to-it >_>
Edit:
OH, COMPLETELY SLIPPED MY MIND
Someone asked about Mal's ult.
I don't know if it's "Suppression" but apparently Malzahar's tooltip says it specifically disables summoner spells.
Suppression isn't officially in yet. They didn't have time to add it to the patch with S1 going live. WW and Mal ulti will both be under the Suppression effect.
I've seen WW ulti Cleansed before this patch. I haven't had a single Mal in any of my games, so no idea if Cleanse works or not. The tooltip might be updated ahead of time.
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I'm not sure if WW's ult specifies about summoner spells. Someone who plays him might be able to give insight. It'd be kind of a letdown if they just updated tooltips ahead of time, though 
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Cool, linked, but it's missing items, and isn't useful for different HP, I think Leaguecraft is more useful as a whole :o
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i havent figured out how to share the gdoc spreadsheet w/o ppl saving their changes/find my private email =(
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EPT
