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On July 22 2010 13:13 ArC_man wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 12:51 Shikyo wrote:
Kobe and Grandjudge both build Rod of Ages for Kassadin every game, Kobe rushes for Zhonya afterwards while Grandjudge got mejais.
And the reason is, because they won't be next to me when I'm charging my ulti and it's all situational of course wtf are you thinking, do you know that your ulti burst has Q and E after it and another incredibly damaging ulti 3 seconds later with the golem buff?
Maybe you know more about the game than both Kobe and Grandjudge. If you think so, well be my quest.
Just because 2 top players who don't main a character builds a character a particular way doesn't mean someone who regularly queues w/ and against top players and actually mains the character can't build his main a different way...
And has beaten them ;p
I actually went to check golem buff to double-check, because I was confused. AFAIK it regens 1.5% max mana per second, which means to go from 0 to 4000 or whatever it'd take a minute solely on the power of golem, plus however much regen you have.
RoA + base Kassadin mana pool (which is filthy low) at level 16-ish is around 1400. No lie. That's assuming RoA is fully charged, too. Golem at that point gives 21 mana per second, which is nice, and assuming I don't run other regen except Ring at level 16 I'll typically have around another 30 per 5. That means every 5 seconds I'll get about 150.
From a base of 1400, remembering that R takes around 3 seconds to cd... let's assume over a 10 second stall with maximum output. You'll get 4 rifts for 100 200 300 400, total of 1000 mana, two Qs (220) and three E (240 mana) for a total of 1460, and considering roughly 300 mana regen you're put at a cozy 360 mana if the fight were to break out immediately at that point. At that point casting your two spells (190 mana) as well as a 500 mana rift would require like another 10 seconds of waiting.
The most you can charge up to is like, 3, which is a whopping 180/270/450 damage, and even then I would find it risky to do pre-fight because you're stuck with one or two rifts during the course of combat, at which point you're stuck needing to wait for mana to regen (which comes fast, but sometimes isn't fast enough).
Compared to my relatively low max mana + golem strat where I just pump out as much cost-efficient AP as possible, get some survivability (so I'm not insta-gibbed when I waltz into close range), and can rift 4-5 times over the course of combat as R's stack settles etc, causing me to sometimes somewhat inadvertently nuke people with R but it's hardly noticeable because, guess what, it's still doing less than my E/Q. Derp derp!
Also the AoE range on R is really bad, the other team has to be preeeeetty mentally retarded to actually get shot by en masse by it. For instance, if you R into Golem and you're just a bit down so that you actually land on one of the little mini-critters, R doesn't have enough range to hit the other one. It's got a tick smaller range than Alistar's pound, for instance, IIRC.
At top elo when LoCicero rages at his team for getting ulted by my Amumu 3 straight times (that ult with ginormous range), if your team gets gibbed by Kassadin's ult it's like looooooool. Fail.
EDIT:
This is flogging a dead horse, but if you want an AP nuking hero with a true third nuke just play Annie, ffs.
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On July 22 2010 13:00 DanceCommander wrote:
BLOW ME RIOT 2 RANKED LOSSES CAUSE OF YOUR STUPID ASS FISHER PRICE SERVERS
yes, lesson learned
Lost my last two games to disconns too (unranked though)
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By the way, not one other person at high elo (yes, not even Dan Dinh) stacks HoGs on heroes like Amumu. As far as I know I'm the only high-ranked tank that pulls that stunt. And Dan has jungle Amumu'd like the last 5 times I've seen him. And yes, I do consider myself better and smarter at jungling Amumu than he is, at least in solo queue (can't speak for 5v5 because I don't have a team) because he keeps fucking his team over by forcing a dragon attempt and causing epic fail wipes. Is it the best thing to do? Who knows? Korea Angel and Dan Dinh do different Amumu builds, too. KA plays a more ganky HoG build, DD tries to farm more, because that's what DD does. I play like the most mid/late-game carry Amumu of us all.
Also one of the best Kassadin players at high elo is statikk (Kass main), and DaeSeisBaluP is pretty good with him too (he plays a multitude of carries). Everyone builds Kassadin different - I stole the SS/GA build from statikk, whereas I've seen people like DSBP open RoA into SS - they're far more brittle than me and don't play as aggressive as I (and statikk) do. I forget what Merakon was doing with Kass but IIRC he did something weird like straight Zhon.
On the topic of RoAs LIBF (one of the best Anivias) used to open Guise/Sorc into stuff like Zhon, whereas the more traditional build is RoA - most recently I've seen Swooz do this. Which is right? Which is wrong? It's not clear-cut, it's a matter of playstyle. Swoozee was more of a rock, stood in one place and just owned the lane. LIBF ganks the shit out of people riding his faster build and high mana pen.
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yeah, Uta, all that is nice but did shikyo tell you abut the game where he went 15-2 with the kass strat he was mentioning??? he was fucking ROLLING people. he still lost (noob teammates lol what is the DEAL with mm???) but you'll come to realize the power of that build someday. noob
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I will say one thing, I sure learned a hell of a lot more in the 30ish ranked games I played then the previous 100. Always cool to have 30s who know shit to give you some on the fly advice and training.  if anyone wants to team up for some games with a main Karthus player im AerensianiC.
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I went 8-4 with Clarity/Revive Tryndamere. Best build ever.
I won, too, because MM isn't good enough to stop me.
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In high elo games do both teams always have a jungler? Always wondered that.
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In premades, I'd imagine it's almost guaranteed to be a yes.
In solo queue sometimes it's tough to do it if you randomly get 5 people who can't jungle, but for the most part people try to get a jungler on their team, yes.
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Kass might be the least agreed upon champ in the game, not just item builds but runes/masteries too. Grandjudge probably rushes RoA because he uses AP quints, being down ~100 hp means he will need more from his items, the quick catalyst accomplishes this.
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He's flexible *shrugs* Dunno what else to say. You can do anything with him and he can do it pretty well. That's why my "guide" was more of a rambling on how I play him and why I pick certain items and skills.
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![[image loading]](http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/7089/lolxg.png)
First game as Ashe since I first started playing this game. /brag
Any tips for my Ashe build? I opened boots + 3hp and rushed IE. Not sure if phantom dancer is any good on Ashe but I love the constant crits that I would get.
I run apen reds, mp5/l seals, cdr glyphs and apen quints.
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United States37500 Posts
So much bitching over petty things...
RoA, it's a good item. It gives hp/mana/AP, all vital things for casters. The "downside" is the 15 delay to having a fully charged RoA. But whatever, even with base values, it's a good item. You can argue about Rylai's, since it has a good proc but Rylai's doesn't give mana. Not to mention Catalyst is a far superior intermediary item than any Rylai pieces.
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FWIW Shikyo is more than likely living in the moment of gjudge dominating that clg/aon match, and that is a premade 5v5 where playstyles on all champs tend to change(some more than others). And he definitely wasn't prepping rift pre-fights.
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I've never said RoA is bad, I just don't like it, it doesn't fit my playstyle. For people that sit in one lane and farm (like Swoozee and GJ) it's a splendid item. For someone that takes off at level 7 and starts hunting it's really underwhelming because it's "late," both because of its cost (3.2k or something) and because of how long it takes to reach full power. I know some people that open RoA into SS, and on the flip side I find myself opening SS if I'm opening SS, otherwise I do other stuff (like Guise on Anivia ala LIBF) etc. *biiiiiig shruuuuuuug*
People that try to force it down my throat can screw themselves.
Edit:
Sorry to expound on cost, I find the 1.3k cost on Catalyst very prohibitive for early hunting, as it gives survivability and mana but little else, and also is reliant on leveling.
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United States37500 Posts
On July 22 2010 14:41 HazMat wrote:First game as Ashe since I first started playing this game. /brag Any tips for my Ashe build? I opened boots + 3hp and rushed IE. Not sure if phantom dancer is any good on Ashe but I love the constant crits that I would get. I run apen reds, mp5/l seals, cdr glyphs and apen quints.
Get Merc Treads, always. Build a Catalyst early if their team has a lot of CC and build it into Banshee's later on (that game in specific, there was Sion Q and Amumu, so rushing Banshee wasn't urgent but you do want to fit it in somewhere).
Rushing IEdge is ideal, what you typically do. From there, stack Bloodthristers is nice, since Bloodthister gives the biggest pure dmg stat. Last Whisper is they're starting to stack a lot of armor. The IAS helps too. Phantom Dancer is meh. Cute but not a serious item to get.
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On July 22 2010 14:41 HazMat wrote:
Any tips for my Ashe build? I opened boots + 3hp and rushed IE. Not sure if phantom dancer is any good on Ashe but I love the constant crits that I would get.
I run apen reds, mp5/l seals, cdr glyphs and apen quints.
It's funny that Rammus is complaining, he's got nothing, lol.
Like, Chalice, what? lolol.
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I usually always get merc threads but they didn't really have much cc, and i had cleanse.
I'll try build catalyst early, I was starting banshees at the end of the game.
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United States37500 Posts
On July 22 2010 14:44 Southlight wrote:
I've never said RoA is bad, I just don't like it, it doesn't fit my playstyle. For people that sit in one lane and farm (like Swoozee and GJ) it's a splendid item. For someone that takes off at level 7 and starts hunting it's really underwhelming because it's "late," both because of its cost (3.2k or something) and because of how long it takes to reach full power. I know some people that open RoA into SS, and on the flip side I find myself opening SS if I'm opening SS, otherwise I do other stuff (like Guise on Anivia ala LIBF) etc. *biiiiiig shruuuuuuug*
People that try to force it down my throat can screw themselves.
Edit:
Sorry to expound on cost, I find the 1.3k cost on Catalyst very prohibitive for early hunting, as it gives survivability and mana but little else, and also is reliant on leveling.
You rarely build straight RoA. The build is typically Blue Crystal + 2 hp pots => Catalyst + Boots => Mejai's => RoA or Sorc Boots => w/e you didn't get previously.
Early hunting? 1.3K for Catalyst is on par with a Mejai's. You'd really take +20 AP over more HP/MP? I know it's a matter of play style, but that kind of logic, you're building squishy. Not very adequate for diving.
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On July 22 2010 14:50 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 14:41 HazMat wrote:
Any tips for my Ashe build? I opened boots + 3hp and rushed IE. Not sure if phantom dancer is any good on Ashe but I love the constant crits that I would get.
I run apen reds, mp5/l seals, cdr glyphs and apen quints. It's funny that Rammus is complaining, he's got nothing, lol. Like, Chalice, what? lolol.
Yea that game was hilariously bad. At the start we had rammus and yi both pick Heal and our Annie says "Heal = feeder"
She couldn't be more right.
That's what I get for trying out new champs in ranked and getting my elo so low.
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United States37500 Posts
On July 22 2010 14:52 HazMat wrote:
I usually always get merc threads but they didn't really have much cc, and i had cleanse.
I'll try build catalyst early, I was starting banshees at the end of the game.
Most basic build for Ashe:
Blue + 2 hp pots => Catalyst => Merc Treads => IEdge => Last Whisper => finish Banshee's. Then 2 slots to build whatever. But IEdge + LW is very, very cost effective for a ranged carry.
Practice this build then adapt it to your own personal play style.
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EPT
