Ok, well, I'm perfectly happy to be proved wrong here, as I am pretty out of touch with mid-to-high-level play right now, but it always seemed like people who had that many creep kills were spending too long farming and not enough time actually with their team.
Even if they ended up with good scores, it was because their team carried them, they got lucky in the team fights they were actually present for, or the other team were really bad.
Exceptions to that would be games that dragged on longer than usual, with either team turtling up and creating a stalemate situation, which more often not leads to extra creep kills and free farming for somebody.
It's usually useless to have high creep stats. Sivir and Heimer just happen to rack up creep stats as they push. It's just "what they do" lol. You'll see abnormally high stats on heroes like Singed, too.
Certain heroes also farm ridiculously fast, and their team lets them because they're carries (Trist, Nasus).
On most other heroes, it's either worthless (Mord) or indicative of not helping (Ashe).
On July 21 2010 01:26 jtype wrote: Ok, well, I'm perfectly happy to be proved wrong here, as I am pretty out of touch with mid-to-high-level play right now, but it always seemed like people who had that many creep kills were spending too long farming and not enough time actually with their team.
Even if they ended up with good scores, it was because their team carried them, they got lucky in the team fights they were actually present for, or the other team were really bad.
Exceptions to that would be games that dragged on longer than usual, with either team turtling up and creating a stalemate situation, which more often not leads to extra creep kills and free farming for somebody.
yea we actually all agree with you. we were just being buttholes and naming the exceptions =P
I don't think I every really approach 200 as Nasus. I know he farms like a beast and can get loads, but I always find that, if I'm playing well, the game ends before I can even get that many.
I have always preferred to gain momentum through team fights and ganking, rather than just farming, even if my char is good at that.
On July 21 2010 01:29 jtype wrote: I don't think I every really approach 200 as Nasus. I know he farms like a beast and can get loads, but I always find that, if I'm playing well, the game ends before I can even get that many.
I have always preferred to gain momentum through team fights and ganking, rather than just farming, even if my char is good at that.
On July 21 2010 01:26 jtype wrote: Ok, well, I'm perfectly happy to be proved wrong here, as I am pretty out of touch with mid-to-high-level play right now, but it always seemed like people who had that many creep kills were spending too long farming and not enough time actually with their team.
Even if they ended up with good scores, it was because their team carried them, they got lucky in the team fights they were actually present for, or the other team were really bad.
Exceptions to that would be games that dragged on longer than usual, with either team turtling up and creating a stalemate situation, which more often not leads to extra creep kills and free farming for somebody.
yea we actually all agree with you. we were just being buttholes and naming the exceptions =P
Haha! No no that's totally fine. Like I say I'm really out of touch, so I'm happy to have exceptions pointed out to me . :D
edit - South - You mentioned that you think Veigar is horrible now, I think. Why is that? I always found Viegar was one of those champs that was easy to play decently, but harder to play well than most people thought and when he was played well could really dominate right into the late game.
Has he been nerfed then? Or is it just that no one plays him well any more?
He got nerfed a couple patches ago. Hahahah. A nerf in the name of buffing. Epic balancing fail. Theoretically he got re-buffed last patch but I haven't seen him played since, so I'm not sure if it fixed him.
On July 21 2010 01:26 jtype wrote: Ok, well, I'm perfectly happy to be proved wrong here, as I am pretty out of touch with mid-to-high-level play right now, but it always seemed like people who had that many creep kills were spending too long farming and not enough time actually with their team.
Even if they ended up with good scores, it was because their team carried them, they got lucky in the team fights they were actually present for, or the other team were really bad.
Exceptions to that would be games that dragged on longer than usual, with either team turtling up and creating a stalemate situation, which more often not leads to extra creep kills and free farming for somebody.
yea we actually all agree with you. we were just being buttholes and naming the exceptions =P
Haha! No no that's totally fine. Like I say I'm really out of touch, so I'm happy to have exceptions pointed out to me . :D
edit - South. You mentioned that you think Veigar is horrible now, I think. Why is that? I always found Viegar was one of those champs that was easy to play decently, but harder to play well than most people thought and when he was played well could really dominate right into the late game.
Has he been nerfed then? Or is it just that no one plays him well any more?
its acutally funny what happened to him. riot had a patch where they did a massive overhaul of him, attempting to buff him like they did(successfully) with kayle. but they ended up inadvertently nerfing him. given they did make some of his stuff better, they completely shafted his ult.
On July 21 2010 01:35 Southlight wrote: He got nerfed a couple patches ago. Hahahah. A nerf in the name of buffing. Epic balancing fail. Theoretically he got re-buffed last patch but I haven't seen him played since, so I'm not sure if it fixed him.
Ah ok, fair enough. That's a shame as I used to enjoy playing him.
I can't be bothered to read through months of patch notes, but it does make it sorta difficult to catch up. I'm still going into the item shop and seeing stuff I never saw before.
On July 21 2010 01:12 Shikyo wrote: Why do you think you cant get kills and assists with 300cs
Because that's like 50 creep waves, or like 25 minutes (I don't remember what the interval was), that you've spent waiting for and killing creep waves. And that's assuming you're getting every single one.
Yeah I guess you don't know how to farm, then, since I've had like 10-2-8 games with 300+ cs at 45 mins
On July 21 2010 01:12 Shikyo wrote: Why do you think you cant get kills and assists with 300cs
Because that's like 50 creep waves, or like 25 minutes (I don't remember what the interval was), that you've spent waiting for and killing creep waves. And that's assuming you're getting every single one.
Yeah I guess you don't know how to farm, then, since I've had like 10-2-8 games with 300+ cs at 45 mins
But is 10-2-8 a decent score for a 45 minute game? I guess it depends on the champ, but 45 is pretty long.
On July 21 2010 01:12 Shikyo wrote: Why do you think you cant get kills and assists with 300cs
Because that's like 50 creep waves, or like 25 minutes (I don't remember what the interval was), that you've spent waiting for and killing creep waves. And that's assuming you're getting every single one.
Yeah I guess you don't know how to farm, then, since I've had like 10-2-8 games with 300+ cs at 45 mins
But is 10-2-8 a decent score for a 45 minute game? I guess it depends on the champ, but 45 is pretty long.
Okay then, I know I've already posted this once but:
226 minion kills at 29 minutes. Make it a 35min game and that's really close to 300. I had 4 tower kills and 11 champion kills. Do you really think I wasn't being useful to my team in this game? You probably just can't farm properly.
EDIT: About Ashe, I can take a screeny of the next 12-1-20 game my friend plays with Ashe where he has like 250 minion kills at 35 minutes. I don't know why you think she can't farm.
On July 21 2010 01:12 Shikyo wrote: Why do you think you cant get kills and assists with 300cs
Because that's like 50 creep waves, or like 25 minutes (I don't remember what the interval was), that you've spent waiting for and killing creep waves. And that's assuming you're getting every single one.
Yeah I guess you don't know how to farm, then, since I've had like 10-2-8 games with 300+ cs at 45 mins
But is 10-2-8 a decent score for a 45 minute game? I guess it depends on the champ, but 45 is pretty long.
Okay then, I know I've already posted this once but:
226 minion kills at 29 minutes. Make it a 35min game and that's really close to 300. I had 4 tower kills and 11 champion kills. Do you really think I wasn't being useful to my team in this game? You probably just can't farm properly.
Easy there dude. I'm simply just asking.
Well done for your performance in that game. I'm sure you could teach me a thing or two about farming.
edit - and also, you said 45 mins originally, which is massively different to 29-35 mins.
On July 21 2010 01:16 Southlight wrote: DotA is different, as is HoN, because both games revolve around "carry heroes," whom are expected to farm and then hit critical mass.
i can't speak for HoN but this isn't really the case for dota. in fact i'd go so far as to say that ganking is even more important in dota than in LoL. having 2 champs that roam from lane to lane, ganking during the entire laning phase is not at all uncommon at higher levels. there are a lot of things that LoL does well, but one thing it does wrong is not losing gold for dying. dota is a way more gank-oriented game because if you can kill a critical support hero or their carry several times, you can negate their farming.
On July 21 2010 01:16 Southlight wrote: DotA is different, as is HoN, because both games revolve around "carry heroes," whom are expected to farm and then hit critical mass.
i can't speak for HoN but this isn't really the case for dota. in fact i'd go so far as to say that ganking is even more important in dota than in LoL. having 2 champs that roam from lane to lane, ganking during the entire laning phase is not at all uncommon at higher levels. there are a lot of things that LoL does well, but one thing it does wrong is not losing gold for dying. dota is a way more gank-oriented game because if you can kill a critical support hero or their carry several times, you can negate their farming.
Let's see... what do the names sGty and ZSMJ bring to your mind?
EDIT: Just in case it's nothing, he's probably the most well-known for what's described in the first 13 seconds of this video:
Free farming is usually pretty bad, but farming while pushing down towers and lanes is pretty helpful for your team, since you're forcing at least one of their team members to come stop you, it won't result in a 4v5 elsewhere across the map, assuming proper map awareness.