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On July 21 2010 00:58 Slaughter wrote:
Well since im stuck in low Elo mordes I see tend to do very well because people are retarded but I see your point about him. If I can bash low elo with him I can get back into Karth/Annie mode when I hit higher elos.
or you could just stomp all over lower elos with annie.
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When I first came across Mord a few days ago, I thought he was gonna be unstoppable, as he had so much early game power and was dominating me (Nasus) in my lane. Turned out that was him at his peak and he brought nothing to the game at any stage other than the early laning phase.
I was just being careless and not avoiding taking damage from him, but as soon as I learned what he was capable of, it became fairly straightforward to keep him at bay.
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On July 21 2010 00:45 Southlight wrote:
For the 50th time, Mordekaiser is a relatively terrible hero because a farmed Mordekaiser is inferior to pretty much everything else. The best example was a Nasus vs Mord 1v1 lane in which both heroes freefarmed off each other - not like they could stop each other. Nasus ended up basically carrying his team because he was so unkillable and hard-hitting. The Mord? Well he has his ult, but that only does a fraction of what Nasus does (because Nasus has it for 20 seconds, and it does the same effect, only to everyone near him, lol!), and he can like, whack people.
The only effective Morde build I've seen is basically mass sunfires. Morde can farm like a fiend and with 2-3 early Sunfires he can just spam his stuff in the middle of the battle and the damage he does is actually quite significant. He will fall off when their team gets a lot of farm as well but Morde can get a headstart with his amazing farming and almost 1v5 teams with like 4 sunfires + banshee veil. It's really insane how difficult he's to take out when he spams his stuff like that, I would 1v4 their team and come out on top because they just couldn't kill me because of my shield and the sunfire dmg became really significant after a while.
If you don't sunfire stack to give him some threat levels, he is quite useless yes. I find sunfire stacking to be really effective on him, though.
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That's why if a Mord comes trying to challenge you, you just ignore him. You don't fight Mord it's pretty simple.
Edit:
I can't count the number of times my team has, against any tank, really, thought, ooh here's a lone tank, let's try to gib him! and like 15 seconds later the tank's still standing, his team comes and we're fucked. Just let the tank go, unless you're absolutely sure you can gib him. And even if you do it's usually not even worth it.
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i still dont see that being really game-ending. cause even if mord is a good farmer, doesnt mean he is going to be lightyears ahead of everyone else.
lots of people dont think enough to realize that yes you can farm well and get every creep in the wave really quickly, but that doesnt make the creep waves come any faster, so you are still limited.
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Ghosted Mordekaiser with mass sunfires can along with his W and skillspam do quite a bit of dps in teamfights, I really think he's not as terrible as people think if you stack sunfires..
And couldn't agree more about focusing tanks like that, many times our team would like focus alistar and he'd turn his ulti on, have 4 people on him... then his team arrives, bam everyone stunned, we get aced. Then team is like DONT FOCUS ALISTAR WTF when they all were focusing him
On July 21 2010 01:10 Orpheos wrote:
i still dont see that being really game-ending. cause even if mord is a good farmer, doesnt mean he is going to be lightyears ahead of everyone else.
lots of people dont think enough to realize that yes you can farm well and get every creep in the wave really quickly, but that doesnt make the creep waves come any faster, so you are still limited.
Farm a lane, farm jungle, farm another lane etc... Morde with ghost can also gank surprisingly well. I still think he's decent!
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On July 21 2010 01:10 Orpheos wrote:
i still dont see that being really game-ending. cause even if mord is a good farmer, doesnt mean he is going to be lightyears ahead of everyone else.
lots of people dont think enough to realize that yes you can farm well and get every creep in the wave really quickly, but that doesnt make the creep waves come any faster, so you are still limited.
That's what I mentioned before, lol. You can have 300 creep kills but that's still only like 4000 <6000 hold. If I have 100 creep kills and like 10 kill/assists I'll have as much gold, if not slightly more. If you got 300 creep kills and my team aced the rest of your team 4 times we're light-years ahead.
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Yep! Lol, that pretty much sums up about 70% of games really..
edit - that was in response to Shik's comment.
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Why do you think you cant get kills and assists with 300cs
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Well, I've never seen anyone get more than 250 creeps and still be providing any meaningful help to their team.
edit - in anything less than an epically long game.
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On July 21 2010 01:14 jtype wrote:
Well, I've never seen anyone get more than 250 creeps and still be providing any meaningful help to their team.
heimer
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On July 21 2010 01:12 Shikyo wrote:
Why do you think you cant get kills and assists with 300cs
Because that's like 50 creep waves, or like 25 minutes (I don't remember what the interval was), that you've spent waiting for and killing creep waves. And that's assuming you're getting every single one.
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On July 21 2010 01:15 Orpheos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 01:14 jtype wrote:
Well, I've never seen anyone get more than 250 creeps and still be providing any meaningful help to their team. heimer
Really? Unless he's been really really buffed since I was last active, all those creep kills never really meant that much when it came to team fights and enemy teams pushing the lanes he's not in.
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On July 21 2010 01:12 Shikyo wrote:
Why do you think you cant get kills and assists with 300cs
For sooth, I'm mostly a DotA player but in my experience a ricer can get some kills and assists just via calling ganks in his own lane. Thus he keeps farming and gets the gold and experience of being involved in kills. Farming=/=AFK.
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On July 21 2010 00:22 Southlight wrote:
I've seen no sign of Xin being able to farm like Nasus, who can also hold a 1v2 in a pinch. Xin is very much like Yi/Jax to me, early/mid-game monsters with a mobility skill that brings them to an enemy to pound on them, but fragile. Xin also has no lane control, and loses to the majority of junglers 1v1 early on (Udyr/Warwick mostly) and can't jungle as fast, although his jungling speed is something you pointed out before.
His viability line plot for me is like Pantheon - scary early-mid game, and then severely drops off. I've seen Yiruru open like 10-1-X and still have us get steamrolled by a midgame push. Hence, he's a great noobstomper but against competent teams/people he's no big deal. I still think he'll get nerfed because all the babies are crying, much as they did for Pantheon (whom I also believed there was never a nerf necessity, and certainly not to the degree that he was shafted).
*shrugs* I guess I'll reserve full judgment for when I get back into an appropriate ELO bracket, but he is a terrific noobstomper and I honestly think he's a perfectly capable mid, though of course Nasus is a better 1v2er vs. legitimately difficult 2 man lanes.
On July 21 2010 00:22 Southlight wrote:
Pantheon farms much faster than Shen because of HSS, and if you go HSS + Aegis is still a nasty ganker. I mean, for god's sake, it's still an annoying-ass stun, especially early on when people haven't finished Merc yet, and he's also annoying for physical damage heroes to kill. As insinuated before, in tandem with Revive he's really irritating to deal with because if you can adapt a good item build for the game, you can output damage, be nearly as annoying as Jax to kill, and then pop back into the fight, especially if you have GA (2.4 lives). By late-game he becomes an annoying tank/damage hybrid (via autoattacks) that can spearhead a fight, because he can gun straight for the carry, especially if the carry is something like Ezreal or Ashe that doesn't typically get much survival.
... again, whether you (or anyone) wants to play something like that I'm not gonna answer for. People who liked his gank into snowball playstyle all-offense style won't like him anymore. And of course, a lot of what he does doubles with Shen, and I don't know which is better (they both bring their pros and cons), but Shen is obviously easier to use because he has laning power and a simpler ult.
Edit:
People complaining about how Pantheon can't just roll in and own people anymore are like people complaining about Shen not being able to ult in and kill people. Very rarely will you die to Shen's ult if you're being careful, much the same way you'll rarely die to Pantheon if he's coming into a losing battle - to that end Shen is obviously better and easier, because he'll save people. But if you've got a lane that has good offensive firepower, like a Kass Gragas lane, and you jump in, Pantheon will still very likely cause a double death into a tower kill.
He's just not a one-man army anymore.
HSS does not farm well anymore... especially since regardless of what you're planning on doing in the level 7-10 range with your skills, you're basically forced to go QWEWWR with 1-6. If from here you try to go for the glory days build of maxing HSS and ganking a bunch, you're a solid 3-4 minutes of farming behind where you were pre-patch AND your skills hit way weaker off of equivalent farming anyway. So now you need more time in fights to output more damage, which means you have to get tanking stuff earlier, which means you can't get the damage you need to... do you see where I'm going? And since he can't carry for his life any more, farming speed seems... irrelevant, you should just be letting your mid-late game relevant heroes get the gold anyway.
So now we're just at a bastardized late game tank who can't really tank and hits weaker than mordekaiser, but whom I guess could spend some of early-mid game ganking pretty well... Why didn't I just pick Rammus at champ select again? Is a shitty global ult really that good?
Or I could just roll revive... /me shoots myself.
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On July 21 2010 01:14 jtype wrote:
Well, I've never seen anyone get more than 250 creeps and still be providing any meaningful help to their team.
edit - in anything less than an epically long game.
Wellllllllllll........
Yiruru's Sivir got like 250 creep kills in a 35 minute game that he ended something like 10-1-10... but he was greedy as fuck and I was the poor errand boy sent running left right up down killing people.
Edit:
Yes, Heimer got buffed and he's now basically a guaranteed ban.
DotA is different, as is HoN, because both games revolve around "carry heroes," whom are expected to farm and then hit critical mass. Such critical mass is generally nonexistant in LoL. Sitting in one corner farming for 25 minutes is tantamount to suicide, because that means you've literally been farming an entire game (or almost an entire game). Apart from a select few heroes (mainly Kayle) most people on the other team won't even care to bother to gank you, they'll just eat the rest of your team and push down the game.
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On July 21 2010 01:16 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 01:14 jtype wrote:
Well, I've never seen anyone get more than 250 creeps and still be providing any meaningful help to their team.
edit - in anything less than an epically long game. Wellllllllllll........ Yiruru's Sivir got like 250 creep kills in a 35 minute game that he ended something like 10-1-10... but he was greedy as fuck and I was the poor errand boy sent running left right up down killing people.
But was that him actually helping the team and playing well? Or just ending up with a good score because the other team were terrible?
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He was playing well, lol. It's Yiruru :p
The other team was also terrible, but he pushed down two? three? lanes basically solo, hahah.
Edit:
He ended with 3 bloodthirsters (had enough for a 4th when the game ended I think), and in the decisive push prolly woulda gotten a penta if "someone stole 2 kills!" hadn't happened, LOL. By greedy I meant, he solo pushed mid inhib, while me (Amumu) and Alistar were trying to kill bottom inhib... but our DPS was underwhelming, and instead of helping us (woulda taken like 5 seconds for Sivir) he decided to recall and then resume farming LOL. Greedy motherf....
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On July 21 2010 01:16 jtype wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 01:15 Orpheos wrote:On July 21 2010 01:14 jtype wrote:
Well, I've never seen anyone get more than 250 creeps and still be providing any meaningful help to their team. heimer Really? Unless he's been really really buffed since I was last active, all those creep kills never really meant that much when it came to team fights and enemy teams pushing the lanes he's not in.
i mean sorta. heimer doesnt really help his team, his team helps him... tear down all the turrets really fucking fast. the creep kills are kinda peripheral, which is why you get so many. i mean its not your main goal to get that much cs, it just kinda happens.
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By the way, Mog, I don't think Maknoon put any points in Spear until late. He seemed content to just sit there and HSS the creep at his own tower. At level 6 he would pop in with level 2 Aegis and level 3 HSS.
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EPT
