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On July 20 2010 23:42 Juicyfruit wrote:
I'm still amazed at just how much HSS got nerfed. It went from 80% of my HP to less than 50%. Ouch.
yea, in traditional Mogwai style, I made a big old post to Riot with some number crunching about how badly they raped Pantheon: http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=173530
that'll probably be my last thread on those boards though, I never get any Riot attention, so wtf is the point?
Why would I play pantheon over TF now?
if you're playing on TT, apparently he's really good. some rioter who was 10-0 and like top 40 on TT ladder was telling us that Panth is really good on TT. I guess I understand that because he's still really strong levels 1-3, but from there on out, it's all downhill for new Panth.
Just like why would I play Nasus when I could play Xin. Well, I don't own Xin so...
*shrugs* Nasus is still really good and Xin is always banned. But yea, Xin > all other Melee right now, and it's not by a small margin. I would feel bad playing him in ranked, but I honestly only play Sivir, Taric, Soraka, Heimer, and Xin in ranked so I'm tier whoring 24-7 these days.
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I still find Xin the most overrated hero in the game right now. *shrugs*
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On July 20 2010 23:50 Southlight wrote:
Pantheon's still able to get kills early game, he just falls off mid/late-game too much if you build him as per usual.
doesn't matter how you build him, he's guaranteed to fall off mid/late-game because he no longer has any skills that can keep his damage even reasonably high and that's all his skills provide him.
look, Maknoon plays Corki now, Pantheon is fucking dead.
On July 20 2010 23:53 Southlight wrote:
I still find Xin the most overrated hero in the game right now. *shrugs*
really? I just grab HoG, bloodrazor, GA, Omen, generic tanking shit and it feels like a just better version of nasus, who I've always thought was borderline too good. what do you find underwhelming about him?
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On July 20 2010 23:53 Southlight wrote:
I still find Xin the most overrated hero in the game right now. *shrugs*
people think he's number 1 when he's number 1, I don't think that's overrated at all O_o
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I maintain he's like a bastard version of Shen, except with much stronger farming power and still-strong early-game ganking. Would you take him over Shen? I dunno about that, but he's not completely unviable. When you want to play Shen 1.5 is a different matter. Maknoon clearly wanted to carry. Otherwise why would he ditch his sparkling Alistar and opt for Corki?
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On July 20 2010 23:57 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 23:53 Southlight wrote:
I still find Xin the most overrated hero in the game right now. *shrugs* people think he's number 1 when he's number 1, I don't think that's overrated at all O_o
lol, heimer is still #1, soraka is still #2 Xin is somewhere in the clusterfuck of good champions after that, but he doesn't touch soraka or heimer.
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On July 20 2010 23:57 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 23:53 Southlight wrote:
I still find Xin the most overrated hero in the game right now. *shrugs* people think he's number 1 when he's number 1, I don't think that's overrated at all O_o
I've never won nor lost because of a Xin, and I've played against some pretty decently-rated (on ladder) ones. He's okay, but he gets shut down and killed really easily. He's like a Master Yi. There're easily 6 heroes significantly more worthy of a ban than him, and probably more.
Edit:
My top six heroes in order of ban preference would be Heimer, Shaco, Kayle, Soraka, Taric, and Ezreal.
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I promise I will DODGE karthus so hard this week.
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On July 20 2010 23:58 Southlight wrote:
I maintain he's like a bastard version of Shen, except with much stronger farming power and still-strong early-game ganking. Would you take him over Shen? I dunno about that, but he's not completely unviable. When you want to play Shen 1.5 is a different matter. Maknoon clearly wanted to carry. Otherwise why would he ditch his sparkling Alistar and opt for Corki?
I don't think new Pantheon does a single thing better than Shen. And he fills a different role than shen too... his ult is worse at supporting across the map, he can't build tanky and accidentally end up with good damage, he has no mass disable/escape mechanism. I dunno man, he seems completely unviable to me.
On July 21 2010 00:00 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 23:57 Shikyo wrote:On July 20 2010 23:53 Southlight wrote:
I still find Xin the most overrated hero in the game right now. *shrugs* people think he's number 1 when he's number 1, I don't think that's overrated at all O_o I've never won nor lost because of a Xin, and I've played against some pretty decently-rated (on ladder) ones. He's okay, but he gets shut down and killed really easily. He's like a Master Yi. There're easily 6 heroes significantly more worthy of a ban than him, and probably more. Edit: My top six heroes in order of ban preference would be Heimer, Shaco, Kayle, Soraka, Taric, and Ezreal.
he's a lot more like Nasus than Master Yi.
but anyway, I agree with your ban ordering for the most part, but I don't think it's that much of a stretch to say that Xin is on Ezreal's power level (the others are harder to compare because they're like, all support).
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Bearded Elder29906 Posts
I can't believe what kind of bad players are playing solo ranked. I just picked Kassadin, playing him for the very first time, laning with Katarina, who got owned twice (letting Xin/Ryze to get away with 20hp) and ragequit. We were left to 4v5 with my team : Teemo / Blitzcrank / Sivir + me vs Xin / Ryze / Jax / Olaf / Nidalee and winning the game in 42 minutes and me doing quadra kill in last teamfight. Oh god :D
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On July 20 2010 23:59 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 23:57 Shikyo wrote:On July 20 2010 23:53 Southlight wrote:
I still find Xin the most overrated hero in the game right now. *shrugs* people think he's number 1 when he's number 1, I don't think that's overrated at all O_o lol, heimer is still #1, soraka is still #2 Xin is somewhere in the clusterfuck of good champions after that, but he doesn't touch soraka or heimer.
I think Taric is better than Soraka. Probably Heimer > Taric > Xin, I know I was exaggrating but yeah even so. He's really, really strong. Supports are kind of different because they can't be judged similarly... imo. Supports always are super highly rated but yeah dunno
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I've seen no sign of Xin being able to farm like Nasus, who can also hold a 1v2 in a pinch. Xin is very much like Yi/Jax to me, early/mid-game monsters with a mobility skill that brings them to an enemy to pound on them, but fragile. Xin also has no lane control, and loses to the majority of junglers 1v1 early on (Udyr/Warwick mostly) and can't jungle as fast, although his jungling speed is something you pointed out before.
His viability line plot for me is like Pantheon - scary early-mid game, and then severely drops off. I've seen Yiruru open like 10-1-X and still have us get steamrolled by a midgame push. Hence, he's a great noobstomper but against competent teams/people he's no big deal. I still think he'll get nerfed because all the babies are crying, much as they did for Pantheon (whom I also believed there was never a nerf necessity, and certainly not to the degree that he was shafted).
Pantheon farms much faster than Shen because of HSS, and if you go HSS + Aegis is still a nasty ganker. I mean, for god's sake, it's still an annoying-ass stun, especially early on when people haven't finished Merc yet, and he's also annoying for physical damage heroes to kill. As insinuated before, in tandem with Revive he's really irritating to deal with because if you can adapt a good item build for the game, you can output damage, be nearly as annoying as Jax to kill, and then pop back into the fight, especially if you have GA (2.4 lives). By late-game he becomes an annoying tank/damage hybrid (via autoattacks) that can spearhead a fight, because he can gun straight for the carry, especially if the carry is something like Ezreal or Ashe that doesn't typically get much survival.
... again, whether you (or anyone) wants to play something like that I'm not gonna answer for. People who liked his gank into snowball playstyle all-offense style won't like him anymore. And of course, a lot of what he does doubles with Shen, and I don't know which is better (they both bring their pros and cons), but Shen is obviously easier to use because he has laning power and a simpler ult.
Edit:
People complaining about how Pantheon can't just roll in and own people anymore are like people complaining about Shen not being able to ult in and kill people. Very rarely will you die to Shen's ult if you're being careful, much the same way you'll rarely die to Pantheon if he's coming into a losing battle - to that end Shen is obviously better and easier, because he'll save people. But if you've got a lane that has good offensive firepower, like a Kass Gragas lane, and you jump in, Pantheon will still very likely cause a double death into a tower kill.
He's just not a one-man army anymore.
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On July 20 2010 23:56 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 23:50 Southlight wrote:
Pantheon's still able to get kills early game, he just falls off mid/late-game too much if you build him as per usual. doesn't matter how you build him, he's guaranteed to fall off mid/late-game because he no longer has any skills that can keep his damage even reasonably high and that's all his skills provide him. look, Maknoon plays Corki now, Pantheon is fucking dead. Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 23:53 Southlight wrote:
I still find Xin the most overrated hero in the game right now. *shrugs* really? I just grab HoG, bloodrazor, GA, Omen, generic tanking shit and it feels like a just better version of nasus, who I've always thought was borderline too good. what do you find underwhelming about him?
ya he won mid against me panthe vs corki  . Although I got 1 shot from Tower at lvl 1.
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On July 21 2010 00:19 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 23:59 Mogwai wrote:On July 20 2010 23:57 Shikyo wrote:On July 20 2010 23:53 Southlight wrote:
I still find Xin the most overrated hero in the game right now. *shrugs* people think he's number 1 when he's number 1, I don't think that's overrated at all O_o lol, heimer is still #1, soraka is still #2 Xin is somewhere in the clusterfuck of good champions after that, but he doesn't touch soraka or heimer. I think Taric is better than Soraka.
Soraka has stronger lane control (even through Taric with Clarity) if she has a good offensive lane mate, whether it's a caster partner or an autoattack partner. Once Taric's pushed off creep it's hard for him to re-establish control, which causes him to be underfarmed.
Taric also is a tank that relies on opponents being stupid, because there's no actual need to attack him. And most of his tanking power gets nullified by Ignite, particularly early on.
Most Sorakas these days also build mass AP off of defensive masteries, and it actually lets them, as I mentioned a few pages ago, carry, both by healing and through damage (Starcall/Infuse).
She's still on another level than the other support heroes.
Edit:
Also as I mentioned before, a farmed Taric is really not scary. A farmed Soraka, on the other hand, wins games.
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Great, if Karth is free this week bad players might take him from me because they like his ult.
On a side note I think playing Karthus might not be the way to go in lower elos since I don't seem to be able to be the hard carry that is often needed due to retarded teammates. Im thinking a tank char and I have my eye on Morde, any thoughts? Also a build on him would be sweeeet. :D
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For the 50th time, Mordekaiser is a relatively terrible hero because a farmed Mordekaiser is inferior to pretty much everything else. The best example was a Nasus vs Mord 1v1 lane in which both heroes freefarmed off each other - not like they could stop each other. Nasus ended up basically carrying his team because he was so unkillable and hard-hitting. The Mord? Well he has his ult, but that only does a fraction of what Nasus does (because Nasus has it for 20 seconds, and it does the same effect, only to everyone near him, lol!), and he can like, whack people.
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haha i saw that thread and i thought, "wow smash would be proud of this post." didnt think to look who the poster was. then i came here and had a lol. cool story right? then i found 20 dollars.
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On July 21 2010 00:45 Southlight wrote:
For the 50th time, Mordekaiser is a relatively terrible hero because a farmed Mordekaiser is inferior to pretty much everything else. The best example was a Nasus vs Mord 1v1 lane in which both heroes freefarmed off each other - not like they could stop each other. Nasus ended up basically carrying his team because he was so unkillable and hard-hitting. The Mord? Well he has his ult, but that only does a fraction of what Nasus does (because Nasus has it for 20 seconds, and it does the same effect, only to everyone near him, lol!), and he can like, whack people.
Why are all the heros I like considered horrible? Outside of Annie all the Heros I like are not that great Lol =\
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I dunno? The heroes I consider horrible are Mord, Veigar, and maybe Eve and possibly Pantheon (I'm still on the fence regarding this guy, I've seen people do well with him, but he does seem like Shen 1.5, or 0.5 depending on how you look at it).
Edit:
Oh, and Teemo. Can't forget that thing.
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Well since im stuck in low Elo mordes I see tend to do very well because people are retarded but I see your point about him. If I can bash low elo with him I can get back into Karth/Annie mode when I hit higher elos.
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EPT
