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On July 09 2010 00:18 Brees wrote:
edit- btw remember when we did our gay heal premades and you guys laughed at me for using heimer?
yea... ok, we were wrong, it's definitely not the first time :p
On July 09 2010 00:28 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2010 00:18 Brees wrote:On July 09 2010 00:14 Mogwai wrote:
well, the first two were at least OK. they didn't take a complete dump on the mythology of XMen. far from perfect, but also, eh, I could live with them (aside from Haley Berry sucking ass, but w/e). X3 was just... SOOOO bad. w/e, I don't really wanna turn this into "XMen Movie Discussion" :p
let's start talking about Heimerdinger is innately unfun and there's no way to balance his character concept. I really don't think there's a potential middle ground... he either needs to suck or be mindnumbingly boring and effective. At this point, my vote goes towards making him suck ass, but I'm curious if anyone thinks there's a way to make him still have the same feel without either making him suck or be OP. take away the ability for grenades to hit turrets, give it a slightly larget AOE. -or- make his 3 turrets not be able to be so close to eachother. like you place one and it has an AOE around it that shows you cant build another turret so next to it. no more gay stalemate pushes and instagib bushes. I dont really see anything wrong with the way heimer is now. He is a really passive char, and i cant stand playing him since i love to charge in and blow shit up, not stand back and blow things up from afar, but he appeals to some ppl. Basically the main issue is that he can endlessly siege towers, esp when he has golem, but early ganks shut him down pretty easily, and in order to 'siege endlessly' requires him to be in a very forward position where he is vulnerable, so if they dont have a teamcomp geared towards 'saving heimer', and since heimer isn't the most useful char in teamfights, its basically your own fault if heimer gets to the point where you cant stop him from his pushing.
he's just gay as balls, I dunno if he necessary needs to be fixed for balance issues, but for enjoyment issues, fucking christ... dealing with a well setup heimer siege is like pulling teeth. his ability to setup an obscenely quick baron is also infuriating... turrets do so much damage...
I think nades not hurting towers is helpful, but I really wonder how big a help it is and how much it just means you need an ashe or trist to take potshots each creepwave.
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On July 09 2010 00:28 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2010 00:18 Brees wrote:On July 09 2010 00:14 Mogwai wrote:
well, the first two were at least OK. they didn't take a complete dump on the mythology of XMen. far from perfect, but also, eh, I could live with them (aside from Haley Berry sucking ass, but w/e). X3 was just... SOOOO bad. w/e, I don't really wanna turn this into "XMen Movie Discussion" :p
let's start talking about Heimerdinger is innately unfun and there's no way to balance his character concept. I really don't think there's a potential middle ground... he either needs to suck or be mindnumbingly boring and effective. At this point, my vote goes towards making him suck ass, but I'm curious if anyone thinks there's a way to make him still have the same feel without either making him suck or be OP. take away the ability for grenades to hit turrets, give it a slightly larget AOE. -or- make his 3 turrets not be able to be so close to eachother. like you place one and it has an AOE around it that shows you cant build another turret so next to it. no more gay stalemate pushes and instagib bushes. I dont really see anything wrong with the way heimer is now. He is a really passive char, and i cant stand playing him since i love to charge in and blow shit up, not stand back and blow things up from afar, but he appeals to some ppl. Basically the main issue is that he can endlessly siege towers, esp when he has golem, but early ganks shut him down pretty easily, and in order to 'siege endlessly' requires him to be in a very forward position where he is vulnerable, so if they dont have a teamcomp geared towards 'saving heimer', and since heimer isn't the most useful char in teamfights, its basically your own fault if heimer gets to the point where you cant stop him from his pushing.
idk, heimer pushes down mid really freakin fast, farms really fast and at a higher level hits lik an effing truck with nades and rockets. the rockets are so easy to aim and take like 1/3 health from squishies in late game. and in the middle of a team fight nades are easy to hit and stun+blind as well as taking a buttload of hp. and with his turrets, his team essentially gets to take tower protection with them, and park it right in front of your tower. so he is a pretty good ap carry, that takes down early towers really freakin fast giving his team map control and then pushes forever and pokes towers to death even if everyone is at a 5v5 stalemate in front of the tower.
edit*
i actually had fun being OP with him last week, but i assume that would get boring really fast. for both teams.
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On July 09 2010 00:35 Orpheos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2010 00:28 barbsq wrote:On July 09 2010 00:18 Brees wrote:On July 09 2010 00:14 Mogwai wrote:
well, the first two were at least OK. they didn't take a complete dump on the mythology of XMen. far from perfect, but also, eh, I could live with them (aside from Haley Berry sucking ass, but w/e). X3 was just... SOOOO bad. w/e, I don't really wanna turn this into "XMen Movie Discussion" :p
let's start talking about Heimerdinger is innately unfun and there's no way to balance his character concept. I really don't think there's a potential middle ground... he either needs to suck or be mindnumbingly boring and effective. At this point, my vote goes towards making him suck ass, but I'm curious if anyone thinks there's a way to make him still have the same feel without either making him suck or be OP. take away the ability for grenades to hit turrets, give it a slightly larget AOE. -or- make his 3 turrets not be able to be so close to eachother. like you place one and it has an AOE around it that shows you cant build another turret so next to it. no more gay stalemate pushes and instagib bushes. I dont really see anything wrong with the way heimer is now. He is a really passive char, and i cant stand playing him since i love to charge in and blow shit up, not stand back and blow things up from afar, but he appeals to some ppl. Basically the main issue is that he can endlessly siege towers, esp when he has golem, but early ganks shut him down pretty easily, and in order to 'siege endlessly' requires him to be in a very forward position where he is vulnerable, so if they dont have a teamcomp geared towards 'saving heimer', and since heimer isn't the most useful char in teamfights, its basically your own fault if heimer gets to the point where you cant stop him from his pushing. idk, heimer pushes down mid really freakin fast, farms really fast and at a higher level hits lik an effing truck with nades and rockets. the rockets are so easy to aim and take like 1/3 health from squishies in late game. and in the middle of a team fight nades are easy to hit and stun+blind as well as taking a buttload of hp. and with his turrets, his team essentially gets to take tower protection with them, and park it right in front of your tower. so he is a pretty good ap carry, that takes down early towers really freakin fast giving his team map control and then pushes forever and pokes towers to death even if everyone is at a 5v5 stalemate in front of the tower. edit* i actually had fun being OP with him last week, but i assume that would get boring really fast. for both teams.
Idunno, sure, mybe he could use some tweaking for some balancing, but i dont think there is anything fundamentally wrong with how he is now, esp since he is so susceptible to early ganks. I actually think that reduced cd for his grenades was kindof a mistake, i actually would have increased it, but he has such huge mana issues that if you can prevent him from doing golem, then he gets kinda screwed. In heimer games i always constantly ward both golems (unless we have a jungler, in which i dont really need to ward ours so bad) since golem heimer is so hard to deal with.
edit: also, i never have problems against a heimer mid, i have yet to lose to one with any normal 'mid' hero.
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On July 09 2010 00:42 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2010 00:35 Orpheos wrote:On July 09 2010 00:28 barbsq wrote:On July 09 2010 00:18 Brees wrote:On July 09 2010 00:14 Mogwai wrote:
well, the first two were at least OK. they didn't take a complete dump on the mythology of XMen. far from perfect, but also, eh, I could live with them (aside from Haley Berry sucking ass, but w/e). X3 was just... SOOOO bad. w/e, I don't really wanna turn this into "XMen Movie Discussion" :p
let's start talking about Heimerdinger is innately unfun and there's no way to balance his character concept. I really don't think there's a potential middle ground... he either needs to suck or be mindnumbingly boring and effective. At this point, my vote goes towards making him suck ass, but I'm curious if anyone thinks there's a way to make him still have the same feel without either making him suck or be OP. take away the ability for grenades to hit turrets, give it a slightly larget AOE. -or- make his 3 turrets not be able to be so close to eachother. like you place one and it has an AOE around it that shows you cant build another turret so next to it. no more gay stalemate pushes and instagib bushes. I dont really see anything wrong with the way heimer is now. He is a really passive char, and i cant stand playing him since i love to charge in and blow shit up, not stand back and blow things up from afar, but he appeals to some ppl. Basically the main issue is that he can endlessly siege towers, esp when he has golem, but early ganks shut him down pretty easily, and in order to 'siege endlessly' requires him to be in a very forward position where he is vulnerable, so if they dont have a teamcomp geared towards 'saving heimer', and since heimer isn't the most useful char in teamfights, its basically your own fault if heimer gets to the point where you cant stop him from his pushing. idk, heimer pushes down mid really freakin fast, farms really fast and at a higher level hits lik an effing truck with nades and rockets. the rockets are so easy to aim and take like 1/3 health from squishies in late game. and in the middle of a team fight nades are easy to hit and stun+blind as well as taking a buttload of hp. and with his turrets, his team essentially gets to take tower protection with them, and park it right in front of your tower. so he is a pretty good ap carry, that takes down early towers really freakin fast giving his team map control and then pushes forever and pokes towers to death even if everyone is at a 5v5 stalemate in front of the tower. edit* i actually had fun being OP with him last week, but i assume that would get boring really fast. for both teams. Idunno, sure, mybe he could use some tweaking for some balancing, but i dont think there is anything fundamentally wrong with how he is now, esp since he is so susceptible to early ganks. I actually think that reduced cd for his grenades was kindof a mistake, i actually would have increased it, but he has such huge mana issues that if you can prevent him from doing golem, then he gets kinda screwed. In heimer games i always constantly ward both golems (unless we have a jungler, in which i dont really need to ward ours so bad) since golem heimer is so hard to deal with.
i actually dont think he is very gankable at all early, if he takes mid and plays it well. you shouldnt be too far forward all the time. park your turrets in the middle and just keep resetting waves of minions into their tower and nading it.
if you are at a side lane its abit harder to keep safe, but a good partner and some map awareness should help.
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On July 09 2010 00:25 Brees wrote:
yea, btw dont play past 2 AM holy shit. I felt really bad for this premade we played, i had 4 koreans on my team (tmrbeauty, manyreason, taburisswu, random) and they were all tryharding on their mains except tmr, but he plays a nasty kennen. we just stomped them so hard and i have never had any idea what they were saying.
Many sucks in general (he's q-dodge), dunno about trm as I've only seen him a few times, but I see taburisswu usually win o_O He plays a really nice carry Ezreal, and he has good game sense, although he plays some bizarre builds and shit.
Or were you saying don't play because you might land on the other team?
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So i played a few games of sc2 beta and then had to play 2 games against Dimaga in a row... so I'm back to LoL.
In your personal opinion, which shen skin looks better? I play him so much i decided i wanted a change of scenery.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On July 09 2010 00:46 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2010 00:25 Brees wrote:
yea, btw dont play past 2 AM holy shit. I felt really bad for this premade we played, i had 4 koreans on my team (tmrbeauty, manyreason, taburisswu, random) and they were all tryharding on their mains except tmr, but he plays a nasty kennen. we just stomped them so hard and i have never had any idea what they were saying. Many sucks in general (he's q-dodge), dunno about trm as I've only seen him a few times, but I see taburisswu usually win o_O He plays a really nice carry Ezreal, and he has good game sense, although he plays some bizarre builds and shit. Or were you saying don't play because you might land on the other team?
look at his profile. manyreason has like 200 wins with anivia, 30 with his next. He's good at anivia.
I mean its just not enjoyable at all seeing
sdjf dfsk fd fkdsk fjsdk fjkd in your chat
and hearing
"wolf come" "u odfkfoigkfdogfd wolf??"
every 5 seconds.
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scorpion
sub zero just looks like regular shen for the most part.
EDIT: never seen many's bird, but he's sucked every time I've had him (guess he wasn't tryharding).
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original Shen is so much better than the skins :|
He reminds me of Shredder, all he needs is that weird helmet
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On July 09 2010 00:56 Brees wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2010 00:46 Southlight wrote:On July 09 2010 00:25 Brees wrote:
yea, btw dont play past 2 AM holy shit. I felt really bad for this premade we played, i had 4 koreans on my team (tmrbeauty, manyreason, taburisswu, random) and they were all tryharding on their mains except tmr, but he plays a nasty kennen. we just stomped them so hard and i have never had any idea what they were saying. Many sucks in general (he's q-dodge), dunno about trm as I've only seen him a few times, but I see taburisswu usually win o_O He plays a really nice carry Ezreal, and he has good game sense, although he plays some bizarre builds and shit. Or were you saying don't play because you might land on the other team? look at his profile. manyreason has like 200 wins with anivia, 30 with his next. He's good at anivia.
I'll believe it if he beats me with it, but I have like 40 wins on my top three heroes, and I'd like to think I'm competent with all of them.
He's terrible at looking at the minimap, he makes atrocious decisions, and as a result he feeds. How bad do you have to be at other heroes to be that terrible? And if he's that horrible with other heroes how good can he possibly be at Anivia?
^-- edit: it's a bit like tekkengod. You say his main is Yi, redtooth says his main is TF, personally I think that guy's TF was horrrrrrrrrrrible and if the few games I've seen him on TF holds true, I have no reason whatsoever to believe he has any "magic hero" where he can just turn it on and be good, as opposed to the utter garbage he is on pretty much every other hero.
Edit:
I play in the mornings if I wake up early, and I've not had problems with Koreans, despite routinely playing with taburiss/daeseis/etc. *shrugs* I played with a Polish guild in Guild Wars for like 3 years, guess I just have thicker skin when it comes to dealing with people speaking a different language.
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Doran's ring ashe pwns!
Ok not really, but I played a match where I bought 2 doran`s rings and just spammed those volleys. They were weak as $/$() but it`s just so refreshing never having to worry about mana.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
well i think he went like 6-0-10
out CS'ed the nidalee mid, and pretty much instakilled anyone he bursted, but yea his map awareness is pretty bad. we had to ping dragon 5 times before he actually came
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On July 09 2010 01 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 09 2010 01 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:01 Juicyfruit wrote:
Doran's ring ashe pwns!
Ok not really, but I played a match where I bought 2 doran`s rings and just spammed those volleys. They were weak as $/$() but it`s just so refreshing never having to worry about mana.
Chalice is way better and is actually a pretty normal build if you don't mass mp5 runes(because the mres seriously doesn't hurt).
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I feel so dumb.
Can someone teach me how to build Udyr, the runes, and how to jungle with him?
I've been reading guides and they just don't make much sense to me. Also it seems difficult for him to grab golem first. Should I be going turtle first when I jungle?
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I want my mana to be full at all times though, not just start massing up when it`s getting low. Like, ashe has an atrocious mana pool. I want to spam volley nonstop without making the 300 mana at level 18 go down, so that when the fight breaks out I can use ECA and frost arrow to my heart`s content.
Also, extra 240 HP 
But yeah, it was just a gimmick anyways.
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On July 09 2010 01:02 Brees wrote:
well i think he went like 6-0-10
out CS'ed the nidalee mid, and pretty much instakilled anyone he bursted, but yea his map awareness is pretty bad. we had to ping dragon 5 times before he actually came
So he beat a hero that's sucked solo mid for a few months now, and managed to burst people with a burst hero. And to me it sounds more like your team was stacked (taburiss, you, and I guess tmr though I don't think I've seen his kennen), and possibly the other team sucked really, really hard (nid mid really?).
*shrugs*
As I said, I'll believe it if I ever see him beat me with it, then I'll move him to the "dodge if he's not anivia" tier, but as it is he's SO BAD that I'm dodging him anyways, just like rivjsy and a few others.
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On July 09 2010 01:05 SCC-Faust wrote:
I feel so dumb.
Can someone teach me how to build Udyr, the runes, and how to jungle with him?
I've been reading guides and they just don't make much sense to me. Also it seems difficult for him to grab golem first. Should I be going turtle first when I jungle?
Jungling tends to be a bit tough until you get a good set of runes and masteries ;/ If you run a decent amount of defense masteries you should able to Phoenix golem at level 1 with smite.
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Chalice also costs slightly more than 2 rings
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On July 09 2010 00:28 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2010 00:18 Brees wrote:On July 09 2010 00:14 Mogwai wrote:
well, the first two were at least OK. they didn't take a complete dump on the mythology of XMen. far from perfect, but also, eh, I could live with them (aside from Haley Berry sucking ass, but w/e). X3 was just... SOOOO bad. w/e, I don't really wanna turn this into "XMen Movie Discussion" :p
let's start talking about Heimerdinger is innately unfun and there's no way to balance his character concept. I really don't think there's a potential middle ground... he either needs to suck or be mindnumbingly boring and effective. At this point, my vote goes towards making him suck ass, but I'm curious if anyone thinks there's a way to make him still have the same feel without either making him suck or be OP. take away the ability for grenades to hit turrets, give it a slightly larget AOE. -or- make his 3 turrets not be able to be so close to eachother. like you place one and it has an AOE around it that shows you cant build another turret so next to it. no more gay stalemate pushes and instagib bushes. I dont really see anything wrong with the way heimer is now. He is a really passive char, and i cant stand playing him since i love to charge in and blow shit up, not stand back and blow things up from afar, but he appeals to some ppl. Basically the main issue is that he can endlessly siege towers, esp when he has golem, but early ganks shut him down pretty easily, and in order to 'siege endlessly' requires him to be in a very forward position where he is vulnerable, so if they dont have a teamcomp geared towards 'saving heimer', and since heimer isn't the most useful char in teamfights, its basically your own fault if heimer gets to the point where you cant stop him from his pushing.
It's almost impossible to prevent a good Heimerdinger from taking an outer tower that he wants, and with a good team it's just a matter of time when he's sieging an inner one. The only way to counter it is to either A) push faster or B) ace them, and Heimer with Zhonya's is a really, really hard fight without dedicated CC chains.
I don't think he's overpowered, but he's definitely a strong champion.
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I think he's overpowered simply because he forces a particular playstyle on an entire game, sort of like the old TF (and possibly Pantheon atm), and Riot has generally had a distaste for heroes that force the game to bend a certain way, at least without impressive player skill. It's a stance I agree with, to be honest.
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EPT
