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i've jungled w/ eve several times. 1/16/13 and i think i had mpen/armor/cdr/health but im sure those aren't optimal i just dont have many runes. sunfire eve is pretty good. if they are mostly physical dmg then it's pretty damn good. make sure to use your ult every time you're about to kill someone
Alright going to give it a shot later. Thanks Nony. I'll probably run Mpen/armor or HP/cdr/MS.
Somehow it doesn't seem as fun as the HOLY %^&* WHAT JUST KILLED ME build, but obviously I won't be up against teams without oracles forever, right? I found that RoA and a Rylai's later in the game is enough to keep me alive if I pop up late in a teamfight, and Boots of mobility are just hilarious with MS quints.
:D
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for whatever it's worth, the best Evelynn I've seen in the past... well, however long it's been since I ran into Dan Dihn's Eve, was Tekken god and he laned with a d-blade, then built zerker greaves -> Sheen -> brutalizer -> Pickaxe -> GRB -> Ghostblade O_O. He really raped everyone too, it was pretty impressive, LOL.
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On November 02 2010 05:56 Mogwai wrote:
STS17, just play 1v1 lanes and simply compare gold at 10 minutes. Making some sort of contrived system isn't going to help you, actually playing the matchups and understanding the push and pull of them will.
I beg to differ. The drills are designed to focus on a specific aspects of the game similar to micro maps in SC2 or certain drills in other sports, if you have ever witnessed or participated in a football practice I'm sure you will understand what I mean.
Simply saying "lane vs miss fortune, you must have more gold then she does at 10 minutes" is no more contrived then "last hit while being harassed, you must last hit at least X number of minions per wave"
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
EU game is basically ARAM. everyone just chills in the same lane and pokes eachother, they dont even bother warding eachother's jungles sooo fucking bad zz. thats why you see champs like udyr and nasus so low and ashe (ROFL) so high
btw like warmog's sivir I copyright calling EU metagame ARAM.
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On November 02 2010 05:58 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +i've jungled w/ eve several times. 1/16/13 and i think i had mpen/armor/cdr/health but im sure those aren't optimal i just dont have many runes. sunfire eve is pretty good. if they are mostly physical dmg then it's pretty damn good. make sure to use your ult every time you're about to kill someone Alright going to give it a shot later. Thanks Nony. I'll probably run Mpen/armor or HP/cdr/MS. Somehow it doesn't seem as fun as the HOLY %^&* WHAT JUST KILLED ME build, but obviously I won't be up against teams without oracles forever, right? I found that RoA and a Rylai's later in the game is enough to keep me alive if I pop up late in a teamfight, and Boots of mobility are just hilarious with MS quints. :D
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=129727¤tpage=929#18579
^that is how you jungle eve
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I knew that and have looked at that Guitar, but I wasn't sure about the jungling until someone informed me that the 'change' to her passive was just a fix to the text. I had always thought she took 50% less damage from all creeps/minions which is why she was a good (or at least decent) jungler.
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On November 02 2010 04:39 Mogwai wrote:EU Tier List: * Tier 1: Ashe, Janna, Morgana * Tier 2: Sona, Miss Fortune, Galio, Kassadin, Kog Maw , Kennen, Anivia, Twisted Fate, Amumu, Pantheon, Garen, Tristana, Gragas, Vladimir, Twitch, Shen, Akali, Warwick * Tier 3: Taric, Annie, Lux, Master Yi, Olaf, Rammus, Swain, Malphite, Sion, Cho Gath, Xin Zhao, Soraka, Nunu, Zilean, Kayle, Ezreal, Nidalee, Corki, Karthus, Shaco, Fiddlesticks, Poppy, Malzahar * Tier 4: Mordekaiser, Udyr, Heimer, Blitzcrank, Katarina, Tryndamere, Gangplank, Urgot, Jax, Teemo, Ryze, Singed, Veigar, Mundo, Nasus * Tier 5: Evelynn, Sivir, Alistar Source: http://eu.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=59305Pantheon Tier 2, Taric Tier 3, Udyr Tier 4 LOL. Have these guys seen Lilballz play? I dunno I like a lot of things about this list, but certain placements seem horribly off.
I'm kind of concerned as to why Ashe is the only top tier dps when I find her one of the easiest to kill and harass during the laning phase and one of the easiest champions to punish for less than optimal positioning.
Tier 4 udyr is lol
Tier 2 akali while xin zhao is tier 3?
Twisted Fate is tier 2, which I guess they can argue that he is powerful but his team composition is not very flexible. I feel like Annie should be in t2 with Vladimir and Anivia.
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BLACK BELT YO (lies, it's gold :/ )
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8751 Posts
On November 02 2010 06:34 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 05:58 WaveofShadow wrote:i've jungled w/ eve several times. 1/16/13 and i think i had mpen/armor/cdr/health but im sure those aren't optimal i just dont have many runes. sunfire eve is pretty good. if they are mostly physical dmg then it's pretty damn good. make sure to use your ult every time you're about to kill someone Alright going to give it a shot later. Thanks Nony. I'll probably run Mpen/armor or HP/cdr/MS. Somehow it doesn't seem as fun as the HOLY %^&* WHAT JUST KILLED ME build, but obviously I won't be up against teams without oracles forever, right? I found that RoA and a Rylai's later in the game is enough to keep me alive if I pop up late in a teamfight, and Boots of mobility are just hilarious with MS quints. :D http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=129727¤tpage=929#18579^that is how you jungle eve
yea that looks much better. i didnt really put any effort into making a good jungle build haha but just wanted to let him know that she can jungle
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On November 02 2010 06:24 STS17 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 05:56 Mogwai wrote:
STS17, just play 1v1 lanes and simply compare gold at 10 minutes. Making some sort of contrived system isn't going to help you, actually playing the matchups and understanding the push and pull of them will. I beg to differ. The drills are designed to focus on a specific aspects of the game similar to micro maps in SC2 or certain drills in other sports, if you have ever witnessed or participated in a football practice I'm sure you will understand what I mean. Simply saying "lane vs miss fortune, you must have more gold then she does at 10 minutes" is no more contrived then "last hit while being harassed, you must last hit at least X number of minions per wave"
Except those drills you're referring to are working on 'mechanics' that are better taught in drill form. If you threw someone into a game of football and said 'block' they'd never learn how because they'd be busy doing a combination of getting beat and holding, maybe cut blocking occasionally because in desperation it's some kind of instinctive move. So you let them drill what 'blocking' is over and over, so that they can actually learn it(and then improve upon it in game scenarios, because practice isn't even close to all mechanical drills).
Your LoL suggestion isn't working on the 'mechanics' of last hitting. The ONLY time you will ever encounter a lane where you have a champion dedicated to harassing you and completely ignoring the effect that has on a)them getting no farm and b)the push/pull of the lane, is going to be a 2v2 sidelane with a dedicated support champ babysitting a semi-carry, or against a very very small amount of champs that you may end up seeing solo(Kassadin kind of just last hits what he can while he Q's you, Morg can pool the lane and then fixate on w/e else, maybe a handful of other examples?).
You want to learn how to last hit better? Go play through wave after wave of minions on a champion like Anivia(to learn how to deal with bad attack animations), and then a champion like Ezreal(terrible base damage, don't cheat with Q).
Stop posting shit in this thread like 'Poppy's Q is great for farming.' You know what else is great for farming? Autoattacking when the minions health is low enough that you don't need to use Q. Turns out you have to get in melee range for both of those actions, why are you wasting mana/a cooldown to farm.
Edit: Out of curiousity cause I wasn't sure how low Ezreal's base damage was compared to other champs I just looked, and Ryze has an amazing 42 at lvl 1, and his attack animation is fairly meh, and his range is meh too... that's a fucking awesome champion to go practice with.
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On November 02 2010 06:29 Brees wrote:
EU game is basically ARAM. everyone just chills in the same lane and pokes eachother, they dont even bother warding eachother's jungles sooo fucking bad zz. thats why you see champs like udyr and nasus so low and ashe (ROFL) so high
btw like warmog's sivir I copyright calling EU metagame ARAM.
I don't know who you guys are looking at, but us LQ people on EU plays Udyr quite a lot. And our team compositions basically look more like US server style than EU style. Might use this an excuse to why we lose when we do  No clue if US Style would beat EU style with 2 high ranked teams (not counting WCG on this one.)
but yeah, there are ALOT of heavy poke orientade and mass harrass push teams than what I have seen you guys play.
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8751 Posts
On November 02 2010 06:07 Mogwai wrote:
for whatever it's worth, the best Evelynn I've seen in the past... well, however long it's been since I ran into Dan Dihn's Eve, was Tekken god and he laned with a d-blade, then built zerker greaves -> Sheen -> brutalizer -> Pickaxe -> GRB -> Ghostblade O_O. He really raped everyone too, it was pretty impressive, LOL.
i messed around w/ something like this. i was getting sheen GRB and yeah it's pretty sick when you have red buff. ghostblade + ult would be some nice move speed
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When I play Ashe I try to get my team to resemble a poke setup.
2.4 second cooldown 300 physical AoE damage at 70 APen, 35% slow. Who wouldn't want to poke with that? And that's only at level 15 or so...
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On November 02 2010 02:49 L wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 02:40 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
BEAR STANCE is hands down the best skill in this entire game. 5 stuns in 2 seconds PLUS MOVESPEED and it retriggers without even having to cast??? Are you serious WENDY??? Once a udyr towerdived me and thought he was pretty sick shit. So I exausted him and he got beat. He got really angry and started going off in all chat. I was like "please you ugly anyway".
See, except Bear Stance stuns even when you're blinded or exhausted. I'm telling you, it's #1.
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On November 02 2010 01:56 azndsh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 01:39 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Well, as far as hybrid carries that need farm you'd always rather have corki, as far as support she's just ouclassed. That's pretty much the main issue with her, other champs do what she does better. That's not to say she's not solid when a team is build around her though. except Kayle needs very little farm to be effective. midgame: boots2 + 3x d-ring + GRB = 4.5k gold endgame: boots2 + 3x d-ring + GRB + ghostblade + 3x pots = 7.5k gold the support is just icing on the cake. I'll play some more ladder games and see if that changes my opinion of her.
I dunno, maybe you have a better handle on it than me, but for 4.5k gold you can have an infinity edge + boots on Tristana or a Bloodthirster and boots2 on MF...
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Properly built, a Kayle will have, at 4.5k gold, something along the lines of boots2 + GRB + BF Sword. At that point she definitely gives Trist a run for her money when it comes to DPS, so you're staring mostly at Trist's passive + Ult vs Kayle's Ult + Heal + Damage Amp.
Differential is greatest at the ~8000 gold range (relatively easily attainable mid-game for carries), when you're looking at a triple-pot Kayle with GRB + IE vs a double-pot Trist with IE + LW + BF Sword (for example).
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On November 02 2010 07:58 Vlanitak wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 06:29 Brees wrote:
EU game is basically ARAM. everyone just chills in the same lane and pokes eachother, they dont even bother warding eachother's jungles sooo fucking bad zz. thats why you see champs like udyr and nasus so low and ashe (ROFL) so high
btw like warmog's sivir I copyright calling EU metagame ARAM. I don't know who you guys are looking at, but us LQ people on EU plays Udyr quite a lot. And our team compositions basically look more like US server style than EU style. Might use this an excuse to why we lose when we do No clue if US Style would beat EU style with 2 high ranked teams (not counting WCG on this one.)
Until things change (dunno when it'll happen if ever), the Eu teams look like a joke at the moment. That one guy, "the best Kass on Eu server" made me want to curl up and cry, there're at least a dozen better Kass players than him on US server, not to mention all the players who could probably just pick up Kass and do better, and he had brain damage when it came to tactics. I'm not sure how that team actually ranks in terms of Eu ladder - not sure how many players got screwed out of WCG in Eu like the US, but... yeah.
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On November 02 2010 07:55 red_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 06:24 STS17 wrote:On November 02 2010 05:56 Mogwai wrote:
STS17, just play 1v1 lanes and simply compare gold at 10 minutes. Making some sort of contrived system isn't going to help you, actually playing the matchups and understanding the push and pull of them will. I beg to differ. The drills are designed to focus on a specific aspects of the game similar to micro maps in SC2 or certain drills in other sports, if you have ever witnessed or participated in a football practice I'm sure you will understand what I mean. Simply saying "lane vs miss fortune, you must have more gold then she does at 10 minutes" is no more contrived then "last hit while being harassed, you must last hit at least X number of minions per wave" Except those drills you're referring to are working on 'mechanics' that are better taught in drill form. If you threw someone into a game of football and said 'block' they'd never learn how because they'd be busy doing a combination of getting beat and holding, maybe cut blocking occasionally because in desperation it's some kind of instinctive move. So you let them drill what 'blocking' is over and over, so that they can actually learn it(and then improve upon it in game scenarios, because practice isn't even close to all mechanical drills). Your LoL suggestion isn't working on the 'mechanics' of last hitting. The ONLY time you will ever encounter a lane where you have a champion dedicated to harassing you and completely ignoring the effect that has on a)them getting no farm and b)the push/pull of the lane, is going to be a 2v2 sidelane with a dedicated support champ babysitting a semi-carry, or against a very very small amount of champs that you may end up seeing solo(Kassadin kind of just last hits what he can while he Q's you, Morg can pool the lane and then fixate on w/e else, maybe a handful of other examples?).
Playing games to learn how to handle being harassed in lane is hardly efficient because you can't guarantee your going to get put against an opponent who spends time harassing you. I have one friend in particular who happens to struggle with keeping his cool when under that kind of situation from any champion and as he is normally our mid or solo laner he is particularly interested in improving his play in that aspect. I just posted a last hitting vs harassment drill idea where you would be subject to an abnormal amount of harass (i.e. someone who is dedicated to putting the hurt on you even at the potential expense of their own farm) so when laning against someone who only puts on a "normal" amount of harass it will seem easy by comparison.
Maybe it was a bad idea, I've been know to have those before, but I hardly think the concept of drilling mechanics to improve them deserves the "fuck you and fuck practice, just play games to get better" vibe I've been getting from the responses here.
Stop posting shit in this thread like 'Poppy's Q is great for farming.' You know what else is great for farming? Autoattacking when the minions health is low enough that you don't need to use Q. Turns out you have to get in melee range for both of those actions, why are you wasting mana/a cooldown to farm.
Now I'm hardly the best player in the world but Devastating Blow resets the cooldown on Poppy's attacks, meaning she can take a swing at two minions in a fraction of the time most other champions can. I don't know about you but I'm not exactly hanging out in the middle of the minion waves until I'm actually going in for a hit on one and if I can get two instead of one then I consider that to be a decent way to do something.
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My take on this whole drill thing is that every matchup is different, so doing bland drills is generally useless. You can get used to last-hitting by free-farming creep waves in practice mode (to get comfortable with it and make it second-nature) but otherwise every matchup is going to feel and play different. It's one of the reasons why when Sona came out it took me a few days to feel comfortable bringing her into ranked play... and even then I couldn't stave off the odd dreadful 0-8 start. Why? Because it's hard as hell to tell when you can kick someone down and when you're going to get kicked down, and it's also hard to tell how much punishment you can take against combination of heroes X.
That's why most people here have been advocating simply going out and 1v1ing, with a wide assortment of heroes if you need to (or have one person stay one and the other person switch around, but this implies you have a second person that's wildly comfortable with multiple heroes). At the very worst you get a better feel for how certain heroes HAVE TO PLAY against certain heroes, and you can even find out some tricks to stay alive against certain heroes, etc. And if you still have trouble last-hitting go practice killing creep in a practice game until you can kill almost everything.
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On November 02 2010 09:02 Southlight wrote:
Until things change (dunno when it'll happen if ever), the Eu teams look like a joke at the moment. That one guy, "the best Kass on Eu server" made me want to curl up and cry, there're at least a dozen better Kass players than him on US server, not to mention all the players who could probably just pick up Kass and do better, and he had brain damage when it came to tactics. I'm not sure how that team actually ranks in terms of Eu ladder - not sure how many players got screwed out of WCG in Eu like the US, but... yeah.
Well considering the fact that you never EVER see someone playing Kassadin on EU might have something to do with the Kass level. As for teams... well there is SK ofc, but they really only know one style (ban tf = be safe). Then there is TopELO (though they are not really at the top compared to say CLG or US teams.) um... there is Fureur that is ok I guess. and Momas team (I can't remember the real name). IR is ok, but nothing special. oh fun fact: there is noone above: 1950elo on eu (5s) while there is only one belowe 1950 on US in the top 5
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