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On November 01 2010 10:49 gtrsrs wrote:
*nerfed* shaco
I have a question about this actually. I've never played Shaco (don't think he's been free in forever) and the changes they made to his abilities seem very "minor" in that he should effectively do the same thing and play the same way. Now the stealth-breaking JITB seems big, the missing blind seems big, and the nerfed ult also seems pretty big (for things like backdooring and doing baron).
But is he really so much worse than he used to be? He used to be 100% auto-ban. Then they nerfed his numbers and utility a bit. It seems like he should go from totally ridiculous to pretty good. What is it about the nerfs that just makes him undesirable?
I ask because I'm interested in buying him to see how he plays out.
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Two biggest slaps in the face to shaco have been the constant cd increases to decieve and losing stealth on jitb did a number to his early ganks.
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On November 01 2010 13:05 Jazriel wrote:
So I hear all this talk about how Tryndamere is bad, high ELO blah blah blah CC/FF him down blah blah blah. Seriously, how is Trynd in anyway shape or form "bad" since he basically turns on the "Win" switch past 45 minutes and ace's teams at fountain.
What is the default position of the "Win" switch?
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Intelligent players ignore Tryndamere, kill everyone else, then deal with Tryndamere.
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On November 01 2010 10:58 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 03:52 STS17 wrote:On November 01 2010 03:04 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Thx for all the advice Nony/STS, what skill order do you do in lane? I've been going EQQEQRQ then R>Q>E>W but should I be taking W over E?
Also in related news, #1 first day Udyr. I think I'm the sickest jungler on TL. Yes take W over E. My skilling order is EQWQQR R>Q>W>E the reason is extra levels in W gives you more movespeed which helps you get to your target asap whereas extra levels in E only gives you some damage, but the skill scales better off AP then levels so it's not too huge. keep in mind that leveling Q hard is only helping you with its cooldown really. the flat damage increase is only +20 per level. the other damage increase, based on 8% of enemy health, is usually not taken advantage of Q lvl 1 937.5 Q lvl 2 1875 Q lvl 3 2812.5 Q lvl 4 3750 Q lvl 5 4687.5 these numbers mean that if your target's max health is equal to or smaller than the number, then your Q is doing its max damage. it's very easy to keep your Q high enough. hopefully i didnt fuck those numbers up so i'll just say how i got them really quickly: bonus damage is based on 8% of max health, starts at 75 and increases by 75 each level. if 8% of your max health = 75, then your total health = 937.5 then add 937.5 per level i actually like leveling E>W for lower cooldown on E and because it does +75 dmg per level (assuming you land the stun). if you go EQWEE and go for a kill at 5, your E hits for 275 dmg with 1.5 second stun... it's ridiculous. they can have ghost flash and still die. and as long as they dont have more than 937.5 health, which a squishy wont, then your Q is doing as much damage as it can. it's a pretty sick option. W speed increases from 17% at lvl 1 to 25% at lvl 5. if you feel you need it, go for it. but throwing down a 2nd E can be huge and early mid game ganks are helped a ton by a leveled E
Two different styles is what we have here. I do level the Q for cooldown because it helps farming early on and I get W over E for the extra armor as well, though I might give your skilling order a whirl in a few games and see which I prefer.
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I've had rammus for awhile and i'm not sure what runes/masteries to use for him. THe only runes I have are armor pen marks, dodge seals, and mp5/lvl glyphs and HP quints. Are these good?
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On November 01 2010 13:30 Southlight wrote:
Intelligent players ignore Tryndamere, kill everyone else, then deal with Tryndamere.
People don't understand that you increase his damage, and then he gets 6 seconds to live while doing it. Instead you should let him do whatever while you kill everyone else first, then deal with him. He's going to kill people regardless of if you target him, so might as well not make it easy for him.
If he's farmed up, there's nothing you can do anyways. However, I did lose with a tryn on my team with 800 creep kills. IE and 5 phantoms. He would suicide into them all, and 6 seconds wasn't long enough to kill a target through the clusterfuck.
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If anyone wants to know how to play/abuse shaco just watch my stream. I'm currently maining him with a 73% winrate in ranked with 27 ranked games played with him. I've got alot more normal games with him. I'm live now btw.
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On November 01 2010 13:37 SnK-Arcbound wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 13:30 Southlight wrote:
Intelligent players ignore Tryndamere, kill everyone else, then deal with Tryndamere. People don't understand that you increase his damage, and then he gets 6 seconds to live while doing it. Instead you should let him do whatever while you kill everyone else first, then deal with him. He's going to kill people regardless of if you target him, so might as well not make it easy for him. If he's farmed up, there's nothing you can do anyways. However, I did lose with a tryn on my team with 800 creep kills. IE and 5 phantoms. He would suicide into them all, and 6 seconds wasn't long enough to kill a target through the clusterfuck.
Except that Trynd needs life steal. A trynd who heals himself for significant portions of his health with every attack becomes significantly harder to simply "ignore and clean-up."
And how does one ignore a hero with a strong DPS dash and an incredible slow? I fail to see how ignoring a hero that can 3-hit two people on your team is a valid strategy.
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Well, how is focusing him and making him do max damage while not killing him any better? Honestly you just slow him a few times and deal with his team and then either retreat to tower or cc/fight him and lay DoTs on him 4 seconds after he ults. It's 100% better than focusing him to start unless you can make him blow his ult before his team is in the fight.
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just CC him once and move onto a different target. problem solved
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I'm starting to think this "troll" build might be not so "troll'-ish after all. <3 TL. I actually got someone to call Sivir OP in one of my games, so thank you for that.
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I guess the biggest issue is that you're talking about a full-farmed trynd and it takes 45 minutes to get even close to full farm with him against a competent team. Most of his farming has to be done during the midgame because he's absolutely terrible to last hit with in lane and that leaves your team to 4v5 from minute 15 to 35 because you desperately need to get those dps items.
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If he's terrible to last hit with, what about this idea?
Im noticing that a lot of guides & stuff always say Open Brawlers & 2 Pots.
If you have a good rune page of crit chance, you can easily break what, 18-20%? Why not open Dagger & 1 HP Pot? Your Bloodlust can easily keep you in lane, and it has you hit faster so its easier to last hit with him.
Just my 2 cents.
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United States47024 Posts
Disclaimer: I'm a baddie so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
On November 01 2010 13:05 Jazriel wrote:
So I hear all this talk about how Tryndamere is bad, high ELO blah blah blah CC/FF him down blah blah blah. Seriously, how is Trynd in anyway shape or form "bad" since he basically turns on the "Win" switch past 45 minutes and ace's teams at fountain.
If the game actually gets to 45 minutes, one of two things probably happened:
1) The other team had a big chance to win and just missed it (reasonable for solo queue, but I doubt most good arranged teams would miss a big shot like that).
2) Your team got enough of an advantage without you that, had you played a champ that kicked in earlier and made a bigger contribution in the midgame, your team probably could have won, instead of having to wait till 45 minutes for you to kick in, and risk the other team getting a chance to come back in that time.
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On November 01 2010 13:05 Jazriel wrote:
So I hear all this talk about how Tryndamere is bad, high ELO blah blah blah CC/FF him down blah blah blah. Seriously, how is Trynd in anyway shape or form "bad" since he basically turns on the "Win" switch past 45 minutes and ace's teams at fountain.
because almost all melee dps champs do that. and most of the 'good' ones aren't pretty damn useless until 45 mins and farmed. and 45 mins means the game is fucked up somewhere i.e. your team's been 4v5ing them and holding out.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On November 01 2010 14:07 LoCicero wrote:I'm starting to think this "troll" build might be not so "troll'-ish after all. <3 TL. I actually got someone to call Sivir OP in one of my games, so thank you for that.
thank you for not doubting me locicero, sivir numbah wan!!
also yea shaco is still good at owning noobs, went 11-3-6 and 9-2-13 at 1400-ish elo. just tried him out again
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On November 01 2010 14:09 Daxunyrr wrote:
Why not open Dagger & 1 HP Pot? Your Bloodlust can easily keep you in lane, and it has you hit faster so its easier to last hit with him.
Just my 2 cents.
Because if you're getting your eyes poked out, you're not getting in more than one swing each time you run up to the creep wave to last hit.
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On November 01 2010 13:08 DefMatrixUltra wrote:I have a question about this actually. I've never played Shaco (don't think he's been free in forever) and the changes they made to his abilities seem very "minor" in that he should effectively do the same thing and play the same way. Now the stealth-breaking JITB seems big, the missing blind seems big, and the nerfed ult also seems pretty big (for things like backdooring and doing baron). But is he really so much worse than he used to be? He used to be 100% auto-ban. Then they nerfed his numbers and utility a bit. It seems like he should go from totally ridiculous to pretty good. What is it about the nerfs that just makes him undesirable? I ask because I'm interested in buying him to see how he plays out.
He wasn't really 100% autoban. People would ban him at the lower levels but he was definitely overrated. He's ok now. Lots of really good Shaco players that still main him and kick ass.
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On November 01 2010 14:22 Dezzimal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 14:09 Daxunyrr wrote:
Why not open Dagger & 1 HP Pot? Your Bloodlust can easily keep you in lane, and it has you hit faster so its easier to last hit with him.
Just my 2 cents. Because if you're getting your eyes poked out, you're not getting in more than one swing each time you run up to the creep wave to last hit.
i thot u were responding to your own post...
damn tl LoL thread and its similar names, srsly wtf
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img215.imageshack.us/i/2legit2quit.png/)
