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United States47024 Posts
On November 01 2010 11:00 UniversalSnip wrote:
I almost always start at wraiths with amumu, he owns them and it's a very fast route with little hp loss.
What items do you start, and where do you go after wraiths?
The only item start I can think of that has enough mana to go Wraiths-Wolves-Blue is Sapphire Crystal, and getting Sapphire Crystal that early seems silly when you're gonna hog blue for a while and therefore won't have mana problems. Plus you get totally screwed if mid leeches wraiths and you don't hit 2 off wolves.
I suppose you could do that weird Wraiths-leech mid-Blue, but that screws up your mid's laning, and is broadcasting to their entire team when you do Blue.
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On November 01 2010 11:07 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 10:49 gtrsrs wrote:
tier lists don't mean nearly as much as map awareness, teamwork, and positioning
take for example the fact that i can wreck with AP tryndamere (kind of like ap yi but doesnt die), AD Annie (longest attack range in the game), AP Panth (2 skill scales with 1:1 AP ratios) and *nerfed* shaco at the 1000 elo level. I was only 10-2 with jungle eve when i still took solo queue seriously and was at the 1450 level. and at the same time, the better players in TL can play bad champs against my best champs and still wreck me. so you should just worry more about improving your own level of play rather than artificially giving yourself "an advantage." fix'd
ap yi either doesn't die because meditate is broken
annie could have an attack range the length of the entire screen and she'd still be one of the worst AD carries in the game
panth's stun scales with AP but its base damage is so low that doesn't even matter and ult c/d is so long that it hardly matters either tbh
conclusion: caller is a major baddie 1499 elo not even 1500 not worthy of giving advice
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actually, contrary to popular belief, mid-leech barely affects mid at all, honestly the push effect is significantly larger than mid leech, and you only sorta kinda feel that.
edit: altho it does broadcast when u do blue tho
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I seem to recall being carried by Aaerox's hybrid AD DPS/tank Lux in a TL IH a while ago. The degree to which player skill, positioning, and correctly identifying and pursuing your team's next goal outweighs champion selection should not be underestimated...
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Currently 12 sign-ups
OK guys, with the demise of Gozey, I'm going to (try to?) run a TL inhouse. Unlike Gozey, I'm going to try to mix things up a bit to keep things fun, since TL has a pretty diverse skill range. Sign up by November 12th, tournament on November 14th, 17:00 GMT (+00:00) 19:00 GMT (+00:00) (note: this will be after daylight savings ends, so it'll be 2pm eastern time; TL's time tag may currently imply 3pm eastern) (second note: moved 2 hours later so west coasters can play). Here are the rules:
Signups are individual. I will cut off at multiples of five. If I get 27 signups, the last two people to sign up will be dropped used as alternates.
PM me to sign up.
Teams will be auto-generated based on ELO to keep things even.
Series will be three games.
Game 1: Teams will draft from the week's free champions (10 free champs means no bans). You are drafting for the OTHER TEAM. In other words, you want to pick the worst, weakest, most unbalanced composition possible. Standard 1-2-2-2-2-1 pick order.
Game 2: Teams will take turns banning from the free champions, 1-2-1-1, with the team that lost game 1 going second (and getting 3 bans). This will leave 5 free champions remaining. Both teams will consist of these champions (mirror match).
Game 3: ARAM!
I'd like to use more than the free champs, but not everyone has everything, and keeping lists of who you can legally ban/force the other team to use based on who has what is too much of a hassle.
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On November 01 2010 11:08 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 11:00 UniversalSnip wrote:
I almost always start at wraiths with amumu, he owns them and it's a very fast route with little hp loss. What items do you start, and where do you go after wraiths? The only item start I can think of that has enough mana to go Wraiths-Wolves-Blue is Sapphire Crystal, and getting Sapphire Crystal that early seems silly when you're gonna hog blue for a while and therefore won't have mana problems. Plus you get totally screwed if mid leeches wraiths and you don't hit 2 off wolves. I suppose you could do that weird Wraiths-leech mid-Blue, but that screws up your mid's laning, and is broadcasting to their entire team when you do Blue.
I just go cloth. I have meditation from utility but nothing else special for mana.
Smite the big wraith, kill the rest, wolves, blue, last hit the golem smite, it's easy. If I take 5 pots I clear the whole jungle in one sweep with that route and I don't even have jungling runes. I don't mid-leech, I honestly don't see how it benefits you since it slows you down and you are level two when you do blue either way. You don't gain anything from doing wolves at level 2 instead of 1 since you shouldn't be crying on them.
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Hey, all this talk about ezreal makes me really miss the guy. I used to play him before the final nerf they passed out and then stopped playing him, took a liking to panth over him at that point. I was wondering, for ezreal, if the three dorians into <main item> is the way to go or going straight to sheen and brut?
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* Siphon of Destruction
o Damage reduced to 65/105/145/185/225 from 85/110/155/200/245
o AP ratio increased to 0.6 from 0.4
o Base shield generation reduced to 1/2/3/4/5, from 6/9/12/15/18
What exactly does the last one mean?
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On November 01 2010 10:32 Southlight wrote:And get owned by CrazyNine's Cho'Gath. ZING. :D
Haha, I've been seeing a lot more Chogaths since I started watching streams. Almost nobody at my ELO can play him for shit but at stream-level play I've seen him roll people. He's not bad when your team can just give you enough time to stack out feast before engaging in any huge stack-threatening teamfights. If he's left alone at top and he's not across MF or Mordekaiser he will usually dominate the lane. There's pretty much nothing more demoralizing to an enemy team than seeing a Chogath with a GA at 9 minutes in. The psychological factor of "fuck, he'll never die" lets you do some insane pushing/tanking with your team. The enemy simultaneously wants to focus you, doesn't want to focus you and can't not focus you because your character model gets so freaking big. Chogath is better than a Banshee's Veil at tanking skillshots for carries lol.
Sadly, his full-caster days are over =/.
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Sounds like Morde is not going to be invincible in the middle of a creep wave anymore.
I'm guessing at level 5 Siphon it means he generated 18 shields per target + damage done + AP ratio. Now it will be 5, but the AP ratio was increased.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On November 01 2010 10:31 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Okay, time to change the topic. It's time to make a wraith jack guide to jungling.
I'm the sickest jungler on TL and here's why:
Almost no jungler I play needs blue buff to jungle. Last night I played udyr for like the second time ever and was able to completely outjungle enemy champs by just knowing routes better. I pretty much ALWAYS wraith jack. It's 100% the best way to wreck an enemy jungler if they start at either of the golems. Not only is it really effective, it also guards your blue buff, and you're generally very safe from ganks if you take smite/ghost and your team sits in your blue grass.
My route with every jungler that doesn't absolutely need blue is wraith jack -> wolves -> wraiths -> stone golems -> bluepill, buy boots or ruby crystal or longsword depending on who i'm playing and then attempt wraith jack again. If it's successful, do the same path and bluepill to finish HoG/razors. If they're there/they managed to take it, head to your golem and take it, then finish the wolf>wraith>stone golems, bluepill for HoG/razors, and get red buff or give it to your carry.
In general, I only take as many potions as I NEED to finish my route. If I get ganked at some point I may have to blow them but if you're vigilant about watching the map it's basically never a problem. On most everyone that means cloth + 2 pots. I don't bother with ward this early unless someone has teleport because usually it just results in lost lane time and their jungler escaping because you telegraph for like 20 seconds that you're coming to gank them when your team leaves lane. Taking the small creeps is far more effective in terms of gold and exp than taking buffs and it's far safer. Get buffs when you're going to gank and otherwise give them to your carry. If your opponents are being retarded it's good to gank at lower levels but usually they'll be playing pretty safe so just let your carry do his thing in mid or top with red buff.
NEVER attempt dragon before first blood. You need to ward it and know when people are going for it but that's it. If you get ganked at dragon you give up at least one kill and likely dragon as well. Far better to just leave it and wait for a chance when the enemies are dead. The only time I would consider doing it is when their jungler is at top ganking and one at bottom or mid has bluepilled, in which case I would get my mid and bot lanes to converge on dragon with 3 of us hitting it and the one with the best cc guarding top by standing in that small grass patch in the river.
As far as smite goes, I blow it on their wraiths/our wraiths/stone golems for the first 3 rounds of creeps and from then on I try to save it for buffs or if I'm not going for buffs soon/have them already just on the biggest target. You don't have to kill a creep with it, you still get the bonus gold, so just smite smite smite. I take 1/8/21 on all my junglers always and my smite CD is up right as I come to my wraith camp if I blow it immediately on theirs.
Anyway yeah just get used to the paths that every jungler takes and the builds that they do and buy a shit ton of wards while keeping enough pots to not die while watching lanes for mias and you'll be fine.
Now you can jungle like 5HIT.
hate to break it you but ive been jungling like that on udyr forever, sorry buddy  he's my most played in ranked
all the people that think he needs blue dont know how to stance dance effectively
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Man I think I'm destined to be stuck at 1450 ELO forever ;(
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Earlier today our mumu was trying that jungle style and the enemy ww walked up out of the blue, smited the big wraith, and just walked off. All at lvl 1 like right at spawns. Pretty funny
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On November 01 2010 11:45 Brees wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 10:31 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Okay, time to change the topic. It's time to make a wraith jack guide to jungling.
I'm the sickest jungler on TL and here's why:
Almost no jungler I play needs blue buff to jungle. Last night I played udyr for like the second time ever and was able to completely outjungle enemy champs by just knowing routes better. I pretty much ALWAYS wraith jack. It's 100% the best way to wreck an enemy jungler if they start at either of the golems. Not only is it really effective, it also guards your blue buff, and you're generally very safe from ganks if you take smite/ghost and your team sits in your blue grass.
My route with every jungler that doesn't absolutely need blue is wraith jack -> wolves -> wraiths -> stone golems -> bluepill, buy boots or ruby crystal or longsword depending on who i'm playing and then attempt wraith jack again. If it's successful, do the same path and bluepill to finish HoG/razors. If they're there/they managed to take it, head to your golem and take it, then finish the wolf>wraith>stone golems, bluepill for HoG/razors, and get red buff or give it to your carry.
In general, I only take as many potions as I NEED to finish my route. If I get ganked at some point I may have to blow them but if you're vigilant about watching the map it's basically never a problem. On most everyone that means cloth + 2 pots. I don't bother with ward this early unless someone has teleport because usually it just results in lost lane time and their jungler escaping because you telegraph for like 20 seconds that you're coming to gank them when your team leaves lane. Taking the small creeps is far more effective in terms of gold and exp than taking buffs and it's far safer. Get buffs when you're going to gank and otherwise give them to your carry. If your opponents are being retarded it's good to gank at lower levels but usually they'll be playing pretty safe so just let your carry do his thing in mid or top with red buff.
NEVER attempt dragon before first blood. You need to ward it and know when people are going for it but that's it. If you get ganked at dragon you give up at least one kill and likely dragon as well. Far better to just leave it and wait for a chance when the enemies are dead. The only time I would consider doing it is when their jungler is at top ganking and one at bottom or mid has bluepilled, in which case I would get my mid and bot lanes to converge on dragon with 3 of us hitting it and the one with the best cc guarding top by standing in that small grass patch in the river.
As far as smite goes, I blow it on their wraiths/our wraiths/stone golems for the first 3 rounds of creeps and from then on I try to save it for buffs or if I'm not going for buffs soon/have them already just on the biggest target. You don't have to kill a creep with it, you still get the bonus gold, so just smite smite smite. I take 1/8/21 on all my junglers always and my smite CD is up right as I come to my wraith camp if I blow it immediately on theirs.
Anyway yeah just get used to the paths that every jungler takes and the builds that they do and buy a shit ton of wards while keeping enough pots to not die while watching lanes for mias and you'll be fine.
Now you can jungle like 5HIT. hate to break it you but ive been jungling like that on udyr forever, sorry buddy he's my most played in ranked all the people that think he needs blue dont know how to stance dance effectively
BREES I need trolling lessons. Now I was running warmogs before you mentioned them in this thread, but you popularized them. Same with LoL's official forums. My trolls get downvoted/ignored.
How do I troll like you?
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On November 01 2010 11:46 Haemonculus wrote:
Earlier today our mumu was trying that jungle style and the enemy ww walked up out of the blue, smited the big wraith, and just walked off. All at lvl 1 like right at spawns. Pretty funny
That was me. It didn't even faze me though, because I always start with a mana potion for junglers now, in case shit happens and I need to modify my route slightly to compensate for slight loss of exp or lack of blue buff.
In that game, instead of doing wraiths -> wolves -> blue, i just did twins -> wraiths (what's left) -> wolves -> blue.
It might as well have helped me, because killing the wraiths/golem/blue with only 2 instances of smite is a pain. If he smites my wraith, it simultaneously speeds my first-round clearing of the jungle so the monsters respawn faster than normal the second time around, provided I adapt correctly.
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The guide wasn't specifically for udyr, I was just outlining how to effectively out-jungle other champions in the jungle, like ones that start at either of the golems. It's not like I think I invented wraith jacks, I'm just pro at them with every champion so I figured I'd share the knowledge. A couple of times I've out jungled other champs so badly that I had 32 cs when they had 8. I was level 5 when they were 2. Wraith jack fucks up champs that should start at wraiths but don't because they think it's important to start with blue (Yi, Cho, Udyr). The only champ that I think reaaaaally wants blue to start is rammus and even then he's pretty solid just going smite big wraith -> wolves -> finish wraiths -> smite small golems if there's like an evelyn or for some reason your team can't protect you at blue / they managed to get it warded.
Also, upcoming jungle tristana guide.
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On November 01 2010 11:11 barbsq wrote:
actually, contrary to popular belief, mid-leech barely affects mid at all, honestly the push effect is significantly larger than mid leech, and you only sorta kinda feel that.
edit: altho it does broadcast when u do blue tho
I HATE when people steal my xp in mid, I want to punch them. Sure, it's faster or whatever for the jungler but even a small disadvantage hurts a shit ton vs champs like MF and Teemo if you're a ranged dps mid.
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On November 01 2010 12:43 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 11:11 barbsq wrote:
actually, contrary to popular belief, mid-leech barely affects mid at all, honestly the push effect is significantly larger than mid leech, and you only sorta kinda feel that.
edit: altho it does broadcast when u do blue tho I HATE when people steal my xp in mid, I want to punch them. Sure, it's faster or whatever for the jungler but even a small disadvantage hurts a shit ton vs champs like MF and Teemo if you're a ranged dps mid.
I forget who, but someone packs 6% exp Quints or something close on Ashe just to ding 6 faster and screw over the other player 
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On November 01 2010 12:39 Juicyfruit wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 11:46 Haemonculus wrote:
Earlier today our mumu was trying that jungle style and the enemy ww walked up out of the blue, smited the big wraith, and just walked off. All at lvl 1 like right at spawns. Pretty funny That was me. It didn't even faze me though, because I always start with a mana potion for junglers now, in case shit happens and I need to modify my route slightly to compensate for slight loss of exp or lack of blue buff. In that game, instead of doing wraiths -> wolves -> blue, i just did twins -> wraiths (what's left) -> wolves -> blue. It might as well have helped me, because killing the wraiths/golem/blue with only 2 instances of smite is a pain. If he smites my wraith, it simultaneously speeds my first-round clearing of the jungle so the monsters respawn faster than normal the second time around, provided I adapt correctly.
Doesn't seem like it would be a big hit, that's the kind of thing where you go for some xp leech at mid and you're solid, didn't slow you down at all.
Although I have to wonder why mumu didn't use smite the second they spawned O_o.
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So I hear all this talk about how Tryndamere is bad, high ELO blah blah blah CC/FF him down blah blah blah. Seriously, how is Trynd in anyway shape or form "bad" since he basically turns on the "Win" switch past 45 minutes and ace's teams at fountain.
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EPT
