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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
On November 01 2010 10:11 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Worry about champion tiers when your team gets facerolled by L0cust's 5-man three straight times in ranked games and you feel "outpicked" each time, then MAYBE you might want to look at these tiers even though AFAIK L0cust doesn't seem to fixate on his own tier list either. Fixed. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 01 2010 10:08 Southlight wrote: I've been rather curt about this, but it frustrates me having people drag around tier lists like they're a divine creed. This is probably not what you want to hear, but if you don't know why people might take Ezreal over MF/Trist, and/or don't know why people (at the moment) favor MF over all, don't know why people liked Kog'Maw over the other ranged DPS for a while (yet a whole host of top-tier teams didn't bother banning him), then you're not at the level where any of this matters. And it could take months before you reach that level, if you ever do at all, at which point the game will have inevitably changed from patching, either via balancing or introduction of new heroes or both. Astonishingly, this means for most people none of these tier lists matter. To be fair, if you're the type of person to watch streams, tier lists can be a good guideline for seeing what new champs to try, because you're probably more likely to see a "top-tier" champion on someone's stream (and therefore see some good examples of how to play that champion well). Of course, even that doesn't hold when Hotshot streams stuff like Locket Amumu. | ||
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ghen
United States1356 Posts
On November 01 2010 08:56 OutlaW- wrote: guys what are the best burst AP nukers in teh game? :O I'd have to say Vlad and Anivia. Vlad doesn't burst per say, but he will destroy you pretty quickly if your pants are down. His skills are very synergistic and his pool acts as a CDR for another transfusion due to him being not targetable. This leads to a very nice large spell based combo. Also, because of his passive, pool, and transfusion he will stay alive and stay in lane longer than many other champions leading to more money, levels, and hard to gank. Late game he becomes pretty tanky for someone just taking AP items. Anivia as my second choice. She is definitely very bursty with 2 nukes and an AoE damage/slow. Her wall will keep you in range and her egg will make sure she stays alive. It's very hard for most champions to 1v1 her+egg. It just seems to be always too risky to dps down the egg after you blew all your spells killing her in the first place. So bursty, positional advantages, imba passive, and 2 slows make her a great choice if you want a burst AP nuker. Now that being said, AP nukers are the worst genre of champion in the game unfortunately. There's just so much CC and so many assassins to make a pure burst nuker like ryze viable. That doesn't mean you can't go 11/0/6 as ryze before 25 minutes though! Anything is possible when the random number generator swings in your favor. | ||
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brian
United States9632 Posts
Twitch talked shit to me for the first 2 minutes straight cause he and EZ went mid, so i was like "lol 2 mid?" then they failed to kill the lux but everything worked out in the end eh ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/CKuA7.jpg) also i have more losses than wins still and i find it embarassing so i cut it out :D singed round 2 today ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/ZXufj.jpg) I have decided singed in the 1v2 lane is the way to go. sit back and collect experience till you're ~ 2 levels ahead of them then just go in ther and tank whatever they've got, and kill them. continue over and over until you're beast. I went after kat first EVERY SINGLE TIME until yi started doing massive amounts of damage. I had to sell my sunfire for thornmail just because of him. first time he attacked me after thornmail he was dead within 10 seconds. so worth it. | ||
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Elite00fm
United States548 Posts
On November 01 2010 08:56 OutlaW- wrote: guys what are the best burst AP nukers in teh game? :O Annie is definitely the best burst caster in the game | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
Yet for the majority of people <1500 a carry Malphite kicks in faster and carries stronger than a standard Amumu, who's much more team reliant and tends to kick in late (sans some epic ganking). But people that think tier lists are important instantly wave off Malphite thinking he's a garbage champ, when in fact he was never nerfed - he became outshined by Amumu's ridiculous ult and the decline of physical carries, the latter of which are re-populating the scene and making Malphite a very, very strong jungle tank, especially given that Malphite is one of the fastest junglers in the game. And worse, most people don't realize the pros of Malphite. They look at tier lists, think he sucks, done. This is essentially what I'm seeing from Blitzkrieg0, except he's going a step forward and saying "why would you ever play Malphite if you can play Amumu?" Well... | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
I'm the sickest jungler on TL and here's why: Almost no jungler I play needs blue buff to jungle. Last night I played udyr for like the second time ever and was able to completely outjungle enemy champs by just knowing routes better. I pretty much ALWAYS wraith jack. It's 100% the best way to wreck an enemy jungler if they start at either of the golems. Not only is it really effective, it also guards your blue buff, and you're generally very safe from ganks if you take smite/ghost and your team sits in your blue grass. My route with every jungler that doesn't absolutely need blue is wraith jack -> wolves -> wraiths -> stone golems -> bluepill, buy boots or ruby crystal or longsword depending on who i'm playing and then attempt wraith jack again. If it's successful, do the same path and bluepill to finish HoG/razors. If they're there/they managed to take it, head to your golem and take it, then finish the wolf>wraith>stone golems, bluepill for HoG/razors, and get red buff or give it to your carry. In general, I only take as many potions as I NEED to finish my route. If I get ganked at some point I may have to blow them but if you're vigilant about watching the map it's basically never a problem. On most everyone that means cloth + 2 pots. I don't bother with ward this early unless someone has teleport because usually it just results in lost lane time and their jungler escaping because you telegraph for like 20 seconds that you're coming to gank them when your team leaves lane. Taking the small creeps is far more effective in terms of gold and exp than taking buffs and it's far safer. Get buffs when you're going to gank and otherwise give them to your carry. If your opponents are being retarded it's good to gank at lower levels but usually they'll be playing pretty safe so just let your carry do his thing in mid or top with red buff. NEVER attempt dragon before first blood. You need to ward it and know when people are going for it but that's it. If you get ganked at dragon you give up at least one kill and likely dragon as well. Far better to just leave it and wait for a chance when the enemies are dead. The only time I would consider doing it is when their jungler is at top ganking and one at bottom or mid has bluepilled, in which case I would get my mid and bot lanes to converge on dragon with 3 of us hitting it and the one with the best cc guarding top by standing in that small grass patch in the river. As far as smite goes, I blow it on their wraiths/our wraiths/stone golems for the first 3 rounds of creeps and from then on I try to save it for buffs or if I'm not going for buffs soon/have them already just on the biggest target. You don't have to kill a creep with it, you still get the bonus gold, so just smite smite smite. I take 1/8/21 on all my junglers always and my smite CD is up right as I come to my wraith camp if I blow it immediately on theirs. Anyway yeah just get used to the paths that every jungler takes and the builds that they do and buy a shit ton of wards while keeping enough pots to not die while watching lanes for mias and you'll be fine. Now you can jungle like 5HIT. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
On November 01 2010 10:31 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Now you can jungle like 5HIT. And get owned by CrazyNine's Cho'Gath. ZING. :D | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 01 2010 10:27 ghen wrote: I'd have to say Vlad and Anivia. Vlad over Annie? I suppose that depends on whether you interpret the question as "Which champ that is a burst nuker is best overall?" or "Which good champ is best at burst nuking?". @5HIT: I like the idea behind wraith-jacking, but Amumu is the only jungler I own/play regularly. Is there a way for him to do it in a somewhat reasonable fashion or am I better off just starting blue/small golems? | ||
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
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mrgerry
United States1508 Posts
On November 01 2010 10:43 Senx wrote: nub q: does poppies ult give immunity to creep and towers? yes | ||
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
On November 01 2010 10:28 Gene wrote: im not a great player, but i think i have finally represented TL like I should. Twitch talked shit to me for the first 2 minutes straight cause he and EZ went mid, so i was like "lol 2 mid?" then they failed to kill the lux but everything worked out in the end eh also i have more losses than wins still and i find it embarassing so i cut it out :D lich bane lux is #1 | ||
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ghen
United States1356 Posts
On November 01 2010 10:38 TheYango wrote: Vlad over Annie? I suppose that depends on whether you interpret the question as "Which champ that is a burst nuker is best overall?" or "Which good champ is best at burst nuking?". @5HIT: I like the idea behind wraith-jacking, but Amumu is the only jungler I own/play regularly. Is there a way for him to do it in a somewhat reasonable fashion or am I better off just starting blue/small golems? I answered the question as to what AP spellcaster is the most viable in 5v5 gameplay instead of what AP spellcaster can 1v1 destroy someone else in under 5 seconds... Mainly because the second question is fun, but irrelevant. Annie is a great burst nuker and her level 6 means instant death for the opponent, but her stun is just not as viable as TF's and she doesn't have his positional advantage. And then again, if you're building her for her stun late game you might as well play AP Sion. If you're building for burst AP and you also want to be able to carry late in an even matchup where the game could go either way then Vlad and Anivia are my favorites. disclaimer: I'm a baddie 1300 Elo | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
take for example the fact that i can wreck with AP tryndamere (a sub-optimal build on a tier 5 champ), AD Annie (one of the worst auto attackers in the game), AP Panth (1 skill scales with AP) and *nerfed* shaco at the 1000 elo level. I was even 10-2 with jungle eve when i still took solo queue seriously and was at the 1450 level. and at the same time, the better players in TL can play bad champs against my best champs and still wreck me. so you should just worry more about improving your own level of play rather than artificially giving yourself "an advantage." | ||
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ghen
United States1356 Posts
On November 01 2010 10:49 gtrsrs wrote: AP tryndamere Fucking awesome. I was amazed at how well you killed people with spins | ||
NonY
8751 Posts
On November 01 2010 03:52 STS17 wrote: Yes take W over E. My skilling order is EQWQQR R>Q>W>E the reason is extra levels in W gives you more movespeed which helps you get to your target asap whereas extra levels in E only gives you some damage, but the skill scales better off AP then levels so it's not too huge. keep in mind that leveling Q hard is only helping you with its cooldown really. the flat damage increase is only +20 per level. the other damage increase, based on 8% of enemy health, is usually not taken advantage of Q lvl 1 937.5 Q lvl 2 1875 Q lvl 3 2812.5 Q lvl 4 3750 Q lvl 5 4687.5 these numbers mean that if your target's max health is equal to or smaller than the number, then your Q is doing its max damage. it's very easy to keep your Q high enough. hopefully i didnt fuck those numbers up so i'll just say how i got them really quickly: bonus damage is based on 8% of max health, starts at 75 and increases by 75 each level. if 8% of your max health = 75, then your total health = 937.5 then add 937.5 per level i actually like leveling E>W for lower cooldown on E and because it does +75 dmg per level (assuming you land the stun). if you go EQWEE and go for a kill at 5, your E hits for 275 dmg with 1.5 second stun... it's ridiculous. they can have ghost flash and still die. and as long as they dont have more than 937.5 health, which a squishy wont, then your Q is doing as much damage as it can. it's a pretty sick option. W speed increases from 17% at lvl 1 to 25% at lvl 5. if you feel you need it, go for it. but throwing down a 2nd E can be huge and early mid game ganks are helped a ton by a leveled E | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On November 01 2010 10:54 ghen wrote: Fucking awesome. I was amazed at how well you killed people with spins SPIN TO WIN i am AP TRYND but seriously if the opponents aren't expecting it, ap trynd really isn't that bad. spin in, soak up all the CC so your true carries and tanks don't have to, ult and spin some more, jump out at the last second and hit Q to instantly be back at full health, spin back in (remember, each of these spins are doing like 800 damage), soak up some more damage and hit zhonya, then spin out. if you're near a creep wave, spin will kill all of them instantly, charging up your Q for another full-life heal. then you can spin back into the fight and clean up plus it's like the best KS move ever. SPIN TO WIN and plus i think trynd is pretty good in lane 1v1. i wouldn't trust him 1v2 but if you play aggresively early, you can get the freedom to last hit easily enough and every last hit is a burst of health for you! trynd OP? | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On November 01 2010 10:38 TheYango wrote: Vlad over Annie? I suppose that depends on whether you interpret the question as "Which champ that is a burst nuker is best overall?" or "Which good champ is best at burst nuking?". @5HIT: I like the idea behind wraith-jacking, but Amumu is the only jungler I own/play regularly. Is there a way for him to do it in a somewhat reasonable fashion or am I better off just starting blue/small golems? I almost always start at wraiths with amumu, he owns them and it's a very fast route with little hp loss. | ||
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
On November 01 2010 10:49 gtrsrs wrote: tier lists don't mean nearly as much as map awareness, teamwork, and positioning take for example the fact that i can wreck with AP tryndamere (kind of like ap yi but doesnt die), AD Annie (longest attack range in the game), AP Panth (2 skill scales with 1:1 AP ratios) and *nerfed* shaco at the 1000 elo level. I was only 10-2 with jungle eve when i still took solo queue seriously and was at the 1450 level. and at the same time, the better players in TL can play bad champs against my best champs and still wreck me. so you should just worry more about improving your own level of play rather than artificially giving yourself "an advantage." fix'd | ||
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