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On October 22 2010 02:02 Haemonculus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2010 02:00 Mogwai wrote:On October 22 2010 01:45 Haemonculus wrote:
What's a modern Sivir build look like? I really need to learn a physical DPS type champ, and my old Sivir build doesn't seem to hurt people anymore, lol. the old starks + banshee's one? lol, that never hurt peopel :p. I remember some of my first tl discussions were like, "omg, I'm following Haemonculus's build, but the other team just ignores me and then kills me because I do no damage" and everyone was like... "dude, duh, buy a fucking BF Sword" Pro Sivirs like Yiruru go BF/BT stack + LW, why would you want anything else now that LW helps ricochet? Hey now I used to rock house with that build lol
lol, I know, it worked for me for a little while too but you hit a point when the opponents suddenly realize there's no reason to focus you and then you're just a walking R button that can sorta push :p
The build I eventually settled on usually opened d-shield with flat HP Quints, dodge seals, mp5pl glyphs and Armor Pen Reds with a 0/21/9 setup to just be a glaive throwing brick in lane. I'd focus ricochet and abandon BB for the most part, relying on ricochet to do all my early harassing (more consistent, less bursty, longer range than BB). At this point, I'd take that to BF -> mercs -> LW -> BT -> BF stack (upgrading to BTs whenever it seems appropriate).
EDIT: dodge isn't as good as we used to think it was, but people have swung their opinion too far in the opposite direction. It's still good, just not an auto-seals stat.
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lol Yiruru didn't even get LW until he got like 3-4 BTs.
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On October 22 2010 02:10 Southlight wrote:
lol Yiruru didn't even get LW until he got like 3-4 BTs.
lol, but with it affecting ricochet now, isn't it a whole new ball game? I dunno, sivir seems to have been the one who got the largest benefit from that buff imoimoimoimo
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Definitely, it's just that I think he didn't give two hoots about your armor until you actually started to stop his 300+ damage, hahah. Then again he farmed crazy fast, so...
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On October 22 2010 01:38 Insanious wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2010 00:41 Brees wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 22 2010 00:34 Insanious wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2010 00:01 Brees wrote:On October 21 2010 22:49 Insanious wrote:On October 21 2010 22:10 Brees wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 21 2010 13:41 Insanious wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2010 12:36 Brees wrote:
no having 1.5k hp and a FoN wont protect you from mages
contrary to popular belief after seeing singed/morde/mundo/etc rush this item first lol Um you good sir do not appreciate the power of Morde's shield + MR FoN + Base MR + MR/lvl runes + Shield = blocks 800->1,500dmg... that negates A LOT of burst from a burst caster. Say Morde is lvl 8 when he gets his FoN (rushed hard): MR: 76(FoN) 40(base at lvl 8) 10.8 (MR/lvl glyphs) 15 (lvl2 creeping death) = 141MR Shield strength at lvl 8 = 363 363*2.41=874.88 damage blocked by shield at lvl 8. This pretty much negates all damage done by a lvl 8 caster... period. Annie at lvl 8: (RoA + sorc shoes) Lets say 80AP + 28.5MPen - Q lvl 4 = 263 - W lvl 2 = 193 - E lvl 1 - R lvl 1 = 256 = 712 Dmg Shield strength after MPen = 363*2.125=771.375dmg This means that Mord can soak up 60dmg of AoE from the shield + Tibbers and auto attacks before he takes a single point of health damage. Add in the fact that once CDs are used on the caster, Morde can easily regen his shield, and if he has 4s to regen he will get: HP: 1276 (Base hp +lvl8 bonus +Doran's Shield) HP5: 2.37 40HP5 (FoN) 8HP5(Dorans shield) 22.33HP5 (the FoN healing for 0.35% of health/second) 6% Extra HP5 due to mastery (perseverance thx to 9/0/21) Total HP5 = 74.54HP5 Healed During 4s of CD = 59.632HP 59.632*2.125 = 126.7 eHP vs annie. Basically, this means that as long as mord has FoN, and knows how to use his skills to keep his shield at max or close to max, then Mord will take close to 0 dmg from a level 8 annie as long as he has a FoN. - - - - - Shield synergies with MR + Armor, not health  The shield is basically like 140 -> 650 quickly regening HP. This is why Resistance items > health items on mord. Yes HP is good, but not all the time... I like FoN Fast on Mord vs Casters because: - Shield + MR = Takes no Dmg - FoN = Runs fast, can catch pretty much anyone and people cannot run from Mord, helping to partial solve one of his problems - HP5 means I take no dmg from casting my spells during a fight, so that I can stay in a fight longer (Yes I do get Omen, BV, Sunfires, and Frozen Mallet on Mord when necessary... but i prioratize negatron cloaks and chainmail before any health items such as a giants belt.) You forgot the part where casters dont go after meatshields, and will proceed to rape your carries then with everything spent, their DPS will lol @ your no hp build and kill you insanely quickly in the clean-up. basically if you want to do your no hp build then at least give casters a reason to burst you. In morde's case, id rather have spirit visage/haunting guise then FoN. Um... if I open FoN on Mord, its because I'm laneing vs casters (like a veigar + morg lane or something stupid). Where armor isn't going to help me. Or 1v1 vs annie, w/e. The casters will cast on me because, um, i dunno I'm the only one in their lane for them to attack? Then after that, I get Armor and then HP so when we team fight I don't fold like paper. Getting an Omen usually... its very rarely that laneing phase ends and I don't have FoN + Omen... The whole point to my post, is that when laneing vs casters, FoN is a viable opener as you will be able to farm enough to get armor + health to deal with those pesky carries. You don't open FoN first vs say 1v1 trist, or vs garen + tyrn... then you open chainmail -> omen. Again, Chainmail > Health early for Mord for the same reason FoN > Health early vs casters. Everything is situational. woosh...your talking about maybe 10-15 minutes into the game, hardly laning anymore. this post makes no sense to me. i specifically brought up teamfights so this post is like double wtf for me. Where did you specifically bring up teamfights? Not in the post where I quoted where you wondered why people rush FoN on champions. FoN rush is to dominate a lane with mages in it (you take very little damage once you get a FoN. Then MR and HP5 are great stats on Mord, its an item you get on him anyway, even vs mostly physical teams later in the game. You change your build order to counter the lane you are in. I mean if you really want it... you can get a FoN by the time you hit lvl 6-7. (Still during laneing) and you can probably squeeze out a chainmail + boots by the end of laneing. So when you get into a team fight your 1k eHP on your shield, that constantly replenishes due to your spell spam has you taking 0 dmg during the AoE shit storm at the start of the fight, and very little damage if you lost the team fight and end up 1v2'ing or 1v3'ing which mord can do at the early parts of the game with the right armor and mr... Mord is my fav char, and trust me, rushing omen vs casters gets you killed... and FoN is something you will want anyway so you can spam your skills without worrying about killing your self (like siphon at lvl 5 with no regen pendant  bad times) (btw for those that don't know, mord + doran's shield will out regen your lvl1 Q + lvl1 W + lvl 2 E, but when you hit lvl 3 E your regen isn't enough and you start killing your self, which is not fun at all) well the post you quoted specifically deals with teamfights. My first post is lol'ing at people that get FoN as their first item since its more of a lategame item then early. "FoN rush is to dominate a lane with mages in it (you take very little damage once you get a FoN." Any mage sans veigar should hopefully be ganking at this point or it pretty much defeats the purpose of playing a mage. If you want to just chill in lane vs morde until lvl 13 then play a physical carry anyway and I in no way advocate rushing an omen, as thats also a lategame item(scales with armor/mr) As i stated my personal preference would be spirit visage/haunting guise over FoN as my first purchases. I dunno about u, but i have FoN at lvl 5-6 and usually casters are still in lane sans annie... well if they can find someone else to come into the lane so they can gank. Leaving a mord alone in a lane = bye bye tower in 2 seconds, then you have an angry man in armor running around ganking people, no fun.
lol having an ego isnt a good way to start your argument.
I DUNNO ABOUT U BUT IM FUCKIN PRO AS HELL LOL 6 INIFINITY EDGES AT lvl 6 DAWG
I'd really love to see your level 6 FoN today if your going to be on.
does anyone else think this guy is trolling me or are you all actually getting 2.5k gold by level 6 which is roughly 113 minion kills (2500/22) by level 5-6....
In WCG some of the best lasthitters in the game only reached 100 by lvl 11, and that was with strictly farming top (barely any aggression)
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
no wonder i stopped posting in this thread rofl
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someone ninja answe rme quickly...wtf is FoN????OO
hurry!!!
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One penta-kill and you'll have that much, man. Chop chop!
You just gotta be like that quad-kill Poppy in a level 1 teamfight. No problem. Come into lane level 1 with Sheen, two-shot Janna. Nooooo problem.
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I dunno about u, but the last time I laned vs. a morde, I kept him at level 1 while I was level 4, then he had a rotation of the jungler and janna from bot come up to duo with him vs. me until I DKed him and Janna through their double ult at which point Swain came up to the lane to tower hug and farm when I'd push to the tower.
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On October 22 2010 01:49 The6357 wrote:i'm a new player to LoL..been playing about 2-3 weeks i think..i'm at lvl17 i've been exclusively playing Ashe and Zilean...I have absolutely 0 experience with dota/hon/sotis I thought I was doing ok just solo queuing 3v3's...feeling like ashe is actually pretty good, but i hit a brick wall last night..went 6-7 game loss streak I faced some units that totally destroyed my ashe and left her with sore asshole T.T Ashe seems like she has too low hp and until she get's that 4000gold sword she doesn't do any damage...even then she still can't kill anything 1v1...only games that I won were thoseI got her to have 4000gold sword + two more 3000gold swords...it took forever to farm up that gold :/ fortunately i'm still maintaining >50% record =) (46-45-1) lol is ashe not a good unit to use compared to other units? How should I play ashe to over come her slowness and low HP... oh and is everyone in liquidparty at lvl30? lol i stop by there and everyone in that channel is at lvl30 any newbs wanna play?
Yes Ashe really wants boots of choice + 4k gold before she reduces the focus on farming. You can squeeze a few ganks/small battles in there after you hit 6 and get Bruta or BF Sword, but the main focus should be on farming.
The standard Ashe build is 1-3 Doran's Blades -> Infinity Edge (the "4000 gold sword") -> Last Whisper (Attack Speed and Armor Penetration), Boots as fit, usually Berserker Greaves with that build. Then you can either get defensive stuff like Banshee's Veil, Guardian Angel or Atma's Impaler, or go all-in on offense with Bloodthirsters etc.
I play a different style with Ashe, focusing on Volley for damage as opposed to autoattacks, here's the guide:
Ashe Guide
I'll probably update that "soon" since the patch changed some stuff that might be relevant, but the basic build still seems decent. I'll have to crunch some numbers at first though.
I'm not sure how well this build works if you're not level 30 and have the runes I suggest, but you can always give it a try.
Ashe is a decent champ, at least if you get a solo lane and your allies help you survive in teamfights. I don't think she's good for 3v3s on Twisted Treeline though. There are far too many ganks far too early on for her to farm well enough.
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^ along with Sivir, Ashe seems to have been pretty well buffed with the LW change. I swear they did it to try to help pantheon, but I'm also 100% positive that it helped Sivir, Ashe, Corki, and Xin Zhao a lot more than it helped him. I can't see a good justification for GB/B over LW anymore on Ashe.
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Why would you stack 4 blood thirsters on Sivir when she has such short range? And she doesn't have much health either. Any nuke will instantly kill her.
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So with these T2,5 quints around i think im gonna spend some IP on other quints than HP ones i keep using lol.
How do you guys think, AP or MPen? Which ones are better and under which conditions?  Anyone did any mathcraft?
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On October 22 2010 02:31 Pandonetho wrote:
Why would you stack 4 blood thirsters on Sivir when she has such short range? And she doesn't have much health either. Any nuke will instantly kill her.
because you hit their whole team for like 300-500/hit at 2.0 AS with enough MS to position correctly and a spell shield to prevent getting caught?
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+ Show Spoiler +On October 22 2010 02:20 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2010 01:49 The6357 wrote:i'm a new player to LoL..been playing about 2-3 weeks i think..i'm at lvl17 i've been exclusively playing Ashe and Zilean...I have absolutely 0 experience with dota/hon/sotis I thought I was doing ok just solo queuing 3v3's...feeling like ashe is actually pretty good, but i hit a brick wall last night..went 6-7 game loss streak I faced some units that totally destroyed my ashe and left her with sore asshole T.T Ashe seems like she has too low hp and until she get's that 4000gold sword she doesn't do any damage...even then she still can't kill anything 1v1...only games that I won were thoseI got her to have 4000gold sword + two more 3000gold swords...it took forever to farm up that gold :/ fortunately i'm still maintaining >50% record =) (46-45-1) lol is ashe not a good unit to use compared to other units? How should I play ashe to over come her slowness and low HP... oh and is everyone in liquidparty at lvl30? lol i stop by there and everyone in that channel is at lvl30 any newbs wanna play? Yes Ashe really wants boots of choice + 4k gold before she reduces the focus on farming. You can squeeze a few ganks/small battles in there after you hit 6 and get Bruta or BF Sword, but the main focus should be on farming. The standard Ashe build is 1-3 Doran's Blades -> Infinity Edge (the "4000 gold sword") -> Last Whisper (Attack Speed and Armor Penetration), Boots as fit, usually Berserker Greaves with that build. Then you can either get defensive stuff like Banshee's Veil, Guardian Angel or Atma's Impaler, or go all-in on offense with Bloodthirsters etc. I play a different style with Ashe, focusing on Volley for damage as opposed to autoattacks, here's the guide: Ashe GuideI'll probably update that "soon" since the patch changed some stuff that might be relevant, but the basic build still seems decent. I'll have to crunch some numbers at first though. I'm not sure how well this build works if you're not level 30 and have the runes I suggest, but you can always give it a try. Ashe is a decent champ, at least if you get a solo lane and your allies help you survive in teamfights. I don't think she's good for 3v3s on Twisted Treeline though. There are far too many ganks far too early on for her to farm well enough.
oh ic...Im following the build i saw on a unit build forum...i get meki pendant (i think) ->philosopher stone -> lvl2 boots -> build up for the expensive sword..
one question i have...is there unit counter in LoL? it seems like ashe gets countered by every other ranged units in game lol and I have hard time lane against mere melee units as well...I try my best to last hit the minion which i'm not good at. I always get pushed back..even if i push forward using volley, I have to careful because ashe is slow and has low hp :/
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![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/2Ohqp.jpg)
New jungle cho guide:
open cloth + 2 pots
don't b for 10 minutes
Warmogs + boots
don't b for 15 minutes
Warmogs
If the game goes long, merc treads
get on our level k
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Lollllll that was hilariously one-sided.
Support queen morg ftw ^.^;
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pro-shitcombo-tip: the best way to increase survivability when you already have HP is to get more HP.
pro-shitcombo-tip: Plan to farm 6.5K gold by 15 minutes
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4 of us were in their jungle and we zoned them out of the second bottom tower, such that they had to retreat to their inhibitor when their second tower wasn't even down :>
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On October 22 2010 02:31 Pandonetho wrote:
Why would you stack 4 blood thirsters on Sivir when she has such short range? And she doesn't have much health either. Any nuke will instantly kill her.
Skills. It works. I tried it today. Early-mid game, push towers and farm. Beware, you will have like 300+ CS but your team won't have shit.
Once you have a thirster and LW out, you're going to do some insane dmg. You have to take flash to reposition, and either tp for pushing or cleanse. Get red pot for extra hp, and red buff. With your ult, you should easily kite any1 following you, except for some1 with leaping abilities like xin or jax, but with your thirster, even though you get some dmg on you, you'll heal it right back.
You really have to rely on kiting and maybe some support to hold people in place.
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EPT
