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On October 22 2010 01:10 Shizuru~ wrote:
Got another question for you guys..
what exactly is Sivir good at other than lane pushing? Is she in any way a decent fighter?
now my word isn't gospel, i haven't played sivir since pre-season 1 and i was never OMG DOMINANT with her but i see her as filling 2 niche roles besides pushing
1) casters usually blow up ranged dps champs. annie will absolutely shit all over kog, ryze pops out of the bush and bum rushes twitch and he's done for, etc etc. sivir on the other hand, has a spell shield, and so a smart sivir should be able to block the spell that sets up a devastating combo (annie's stun, ryze's bind, morgana's bind, etc). so she shouldn't get blown up immediately by a flanking annie if she's smart.
2) item advantage. sivir's gold should be the highest in the game. she should get every creep. this can lead to a huge early-game equipment advantage which can lead to easy early teamfights. this can snowball into a late-game win.
at least that's how i see sivir. her ult is great for teamfights (although, not as much now that they nerfed it. seems better for escaping/chasing now) and left unchecked she'll get off a bunch of ricochets but a good team won't leave her unchecked. she still needs a little more work imoimoimo
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On October 22 2010 01:12 Juicyfruit wrote:
I am sending you a bill for the 2 games that I carried you in.
50cents please. I'm cheap.
your advice ("hey guys i don't think we should engage 4v5") is worth more money than i have. i will never be able to repay you for valiantly leading us in games where there was no chance we would lose 
On October 22 2010 01:16 Phrost wrote:
Except when I play kayle and the other team doesnt recognize your existance.
Zing!
spiderland and i got shafted in post-game chit-chat. how is going 4-0-10 and 3-0-11 not worthy of mention?? Q_Q double aoe ult means nothing
On October 22 2010 01:17 TieN.nS) wrote:
snowster is #1 bad though
no, jazriel is numba wan bad, this is indisputable fact. snowster is #2 bad but he knows a secret vladimir build that does not lose (3 warmogs + FoN gg hp regen, imba 1000 damage pool)
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did he ever tell you about the story of the fiddle in middle?
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no sir he did not but if it is incriminating or hilarious i think you should enlighten me
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Sivir got two ninja buffs that make her pretty good:
1) her range got buffed 25 - considering even before this she was "pretty good" just overshadowed by other ranged DPS, any little buff is good - they're wary of buffing her range too much because
2) LW works on Ricochet
This makes her, aside from Twitch, the only ranged DPS hero that can smack around an entire team.
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On October 22 2010 00:51 Juicyfruit wrote:
Nimbleness is a pretty big deal though, especially if you play a champ that harasses while diving through a couple of minions (kennen, garen, swain, vlad)
Nimbleness jungle alistar. King of earlygame ganks. Not trolling.
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On October 22 2010 01:31 r33k wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2010 00:51 Juicyfruit wrote:
Nimbleness is a pretty big deal though, especially if you play a champ that harasses while diving through a couple of minions (kennen, garen, swain, vlad) Nimbleness jungle alistar. King of earlygame ganks. Not trolling.
SINGED IS THE MOST NIMBLE PERSON IN THE WORLD.
need that dodge to avoid frost shots.
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On October 22 2010 01:29 Southlight wrote:
Sivir got two ninja buffs that make her pretty good:
1) her range got buffed 25 - considering even before this she was "pretty good" just overshadowed by other ranged DPS, any little buff is good - they're wary of buffing her range too much because
2) LW works on Ricochet
This makes her, aside from Twitch, the only ranged DPS hero that can smack around an entire team.
So AD>AP now? most of the sivirs i've seen in the last 2 days were going ap with the new malady, none of them had spectacular results but they weren't good to begin with.
Good sivirs are hard to find tho, her Q is the hardest skillshot in the game and it rewards you greatly when used correctly, her passive is annoying to constantly make use of aswell.
Btw jungle shen is awesome. 1st game (which dragged to over an hour) i went 12/5/23 or something like that, lost to feeding MF 1v2 top (0/5 at lv 8, then got better while staying with the team), feeding sivir (feeding on purpose, overall being a moron and extremely BM) and soulstealer first eve.
The fact that we were ez/lux/shen/mf/sivir did not help, whenever one of them went solo he would get raped before teleport, oracle or not.
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On October 22 2010 00:41 Brees wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 22 2010 00:34 Insanious wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2010 00:01 Brees wrote:On October 21 2010 22:49 Insanious wrote:On October 21 2010 22:10 Brees wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 21 2010 13:41 Insanious wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2010 12:36 Brees wrote:
no having 1.5k hp and a FoN wont protect you from mages
contrary to popular belief after seeing singed/morde/mundo/etc rush this item first lol Um you good sir do not appreciate the power of Morde's shield + MR FoN + Base MR + MR/lvl runes + Shield = blocks 800->1,500dmg... that negates A LOT of burst from a burst caster. Say Morde is lvl 8 when he gets his FoN (rushed hard): MR: 76(FoN) 40(base at lvl 8) 10.8 (MR/lvl glyphs) 15 (lvl2 creeping death) = 141MR Shield strength at lvl 8 = 363 363*2.41=874.88 damage blocked by shield at lvl 8. This pretty much negates all damage done by a lvl 8 caster... period. Annie at lvl 8: (RoA + sorc shoes) Lets say 80AP + 28.5MPen - Q lvl 4 = 263 - W lvl 2 = 193 - E lvl 1 - R lvl 1 = 256 = 712 Dmg Shield strength after MPen = 363*2.125=771.375dmg This means that Mord can soak up 60dmg of AoE from the shield + Tibbers and auto attacks before he takes a single point of health damage. Add in the fact that once CDs are used on the caster, Morde can easily regen his shield, and if he has 4s to regen he will get: HP: 1276 (Base hp +lvl8 bonus +Doran's Shield) HP5: 2.37 40HP5 (FoN) 8HP5(Dorans shield) 22.33HP5 (the FoN healing for 0.35% of health/second) 6% Extra HP5 due to mastery (perseverance thx to 9/0/21) Total HP5 = 74.54HP5 Healed During 4s of CD = 59.632HP 59.632*2.125 = 126.7 eHP vs annie. Basically, this means that as long as mord has FoN, and knows how to use his skills to keep his shield at max or close to max, then Mord will take close to 0 dmg from a level 8 annie as long as he has a FoN. - - - - - Shield synergies with MR + Armor, not health  The shield is basically like 140 -> 650 quickly regening HP. This is why Resistance items > health items on mord. Yes HP is good, but not all the time... I like FoN Fast on Mord vs Casters because: - Shield + MR = Takes no Dmg - FoN = Runs fast, can catch pretty much anyone and people cannot run from Mord, helping to partial solve one of his problems - HP5 means I take no dmg from casting my spells during a fight, so that I can stay in a fight longer (Yes I do get Omen, BV, Sunfires, and Frozen Mallet on Mord when necessary... but i prioratize negatron cloaks and chainmail before any health items such as a giants belt.) You forgot the part where casters dont go after meatshields, and will proceed to rape your carries then with everything spent, their DPS will lol @ your no hp build and kill you insanely quickly in the clean-up. basically if you want to do your no hp build then at least give casters a reason to burst you. In morde's case, id rather have spirit visage/haunting guise then FoN. Um... if I open FoN on Mord, its because I'm laneing vs casters (like a veigar + morg lane or something stupid). Where armor isn't going to help me. Or 1v1 vs annie, w/e. The casters will cast on me because, um, i dunno I'm the only one in their lane for them to attack? Then after that, I get Armor and then HP so when we team fight I don't fold like paper. Getting an Omen usually... its very rarely that laneing phase ends and I don't have FoN + Omen... The whole point to my post, is that when laneing vs casters, FoN is a viable opener as you will be able to farm enough to get armor + health to deal with those pesky carries. You don't open FoN first vs say 1v1 trist, or vs garen + tyrn... then you open chainmail -> omen. Again, Chainmail > Health early for Mord for the same reason FoN > Health early vs casters. Everything is situational. woosh...your talking about maybe 10-15 minutes into the game, hardly laning anymore. this post makes no sense to me. i specifically brought up teamfights so this post is like double wtf for me. Where did you specifically bring up teamfights? Not in the post where I quoted where you wondered why people rush FoN on champions. FoN rush is to dominate a lane with mages in it (you take very little damage once you get a FoN. Then MR and HP5 are great stats on Mord, its an item you get on him anyway, even vs mostly physical teams later in the game. You change your build order to counter the lane you are in. I mean if you really want it... you can get a FoN by the time you hit lvl 6-7. (Still during laneing) and you can probably squeeze out a chainmail + boots by the end of laneing. So when you get into a team fight your 1k eHP on your shield, that constantly replenishes due to your spell spam has you taking 0 dmg during the AoE shit storm at the start of the fight, and very little damage if you lost the team fight and end up 1v2'ing or 1v3'ing which mord can do at the early parts of the game with the right armor and mr... Mord is my fav char, and trust me, rushing omen vs casters gets you killed... and FoN is something you will want anyway so you can spam your skills without worrying about killing your self (like siphon at lvl 5 with no regen pendant  bad times) (btw for those that don't know, mord + doran's shield will out regen your lvl1 Q + lvl1 W + lvl 2 E, but when you hit lvl 3 E your regen isn't enough and you start killing your self, which is not fun at all) well the post you quoted specifically deals with teamfights. My first post is lol'ing at people that get FoN as their first item since its more of a lategame item then early. "FoN rush is to dominate a lane with mages in it (you take very little damage once you get a FoN." Any mage sans veigar should hopefully be ganking at this point or it pretty much defeats the purpose of playing a mage. If you want to just chill in lane vs morde until lvl 13 then play a physical carry anyway and I in no way advocate rushing an omen, as thats also a lategame item(scales with armor/mr) As i stated my personal preference would be spirit visage/haunting guise over FoN as my first purchases.
I dunno about u, but i have FoN at lvl 5-6 and usually casters are still in lane sans annie... well if they can find someone else to come into the lane so they can gank. Leaving a mord alone in a lane = bye bye tower in 2 seconds, then you have an angry man in armor running around ganking people, no fun.
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On October 22 2010 01:34 Phrost wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2010 01:31 r33k wrote:On October 22 2010 00:51 Juicyfruit wrote:
Nimbleness is a pretty big deal though, especially if you play a champ that harasses while diving through a couple of minions (kennen, garen, swain, vlad) Nimbleness jungle alistar. King of earlygame ganks. Not trolling. SINGED IS THE MOST NIMBLE PERSON IN THE WORLD. need that dodge to avoid frost shots.
Anyone who hasn't tried jungle cowman should troll the shit out of their/the opposing team, he does best when you're blue and triforce rush is hilarious.
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On October 22 2010 01:26 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2010 01:12 Juicyfruit wrote:
I am sending you a bill for the 2 games that I carried you in.
50cents please. I'm cheap. your advice ("hey guys i don't think we should engage 4v5") is worth more money than i have. i will never be able to repay you for valiantly leading us in games where there was no chance we would lose
You're not giving my sage advice enough credit bruuuuuuhhhhh ;(
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What's a modern Sivir build look like? I really need to learn a physical DPS type champ, and my old Sivir build doesn't seem to hurt people anymore, lol.
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On October 22 2010 01:37 r33k wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2010 01:29 Southlight wrote:
Sivir got two ninja buffs that make her pretty good:
1) her range got buffed 25 - considering even before this she was "pretty good" just overshadowed by other ranged DPS, any little buff is good - they're wary of buffing her range too much because
2) LW works on Ricochet
This makes her, aside from Twitch, the only ranged DPS hero that can smack around an entire team. So AD>AP now? most of the sivirs i've seen in the last 2 days were going ap with the new malady, none of them had spectacular results but they weren't good to begin with.
Wat, Sivir's always been AD. I wish I knew what skill order Yiruru did with his Sivir but Brees mentioned preferring a mass Ricochet tanky DPS build that just turned into a standing multi-shot turret (also it let him have good lane control because people couldn't stop him from farming).
Yiruru had a pure offense build that stacked BTs and finished with a LW but I wouldn't recommend it unless you're really good, greedy-as-hell, and have spectacular positioning/last-hitting. For obvious reasons. (for hints as to how greedy he was, he boomerang'd wraiths as I jungled, to get the last-hit on all 4)
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i'm a new player to LoL..been playing about 2-3 weeks i think..i'm at lvl17
i've been exclusively playing Ashe and Zilean...I have absolutely 0 experience with dota/hon/sotis
I thought I was doing ok just solo queuing 3v3's...feeling like ashe is actually pretty good, but i hit a brick wall last night..went 6-7 game loss streak
I faced some units that totally destroyed my ashe and left her with sore asshole T.T
Ashe seems like she has too low hp and until she get's that 4000gold sword she doesn't do any damage...even then she still can't kill anything 1v1...only games that I won were thoseI got her to have 4000gold sword + two more 3000gold swords...it took forever to farm up that gold :/
fortunately i'm still maintaining >50% record =) (46-45-1) lol
is ashe not a good unit to use compared to other units? How should I play ashe to over come her slowness and low HP...
oh and is everyone in liquidparty at lvl30? lol i stop by there and everyone in that channel is at lvl30 any newbs wanna play?
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A couple of us mighty Level 30s will just mass invitespam everyone for unranked 5 mans of... varying degrees of seriousness. Your illusions about our skill may quickly disappear.
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On October 21 2010 23:40 Jazriel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2010 16:39 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 21 2010 13:14 Jazriel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2010 12:58 oberon wrote:
You'll actually get the most survivability with a combination of dodge, HP, MR, and armor. In fact, you the optimal resource investment is to have the same total value in all multiplied stats. I can provide the proof of this if anyone cares (I think I mentioned it a while back while discussing changes in CC/positioning over time in the LoL metagame). Proof please. I always enjoy a good read. As for ZERG_RUSSIAN, I think you missed the entire point of my post. Oh well, subtlety doesn't show itself well over the internet. I was trying to point out that Dodge is equivalent to Armor, in that it is something you seek if you are dealing with a heavy auto-attacking team. You said that Dodge loses to casters. Casters can be handled with MRes. Ergo, FoN exists, ergo dodge isn't garbage USING THE PREMISE OF "Casters are unaffected by your dodge chance." I'll accept the idea that Veil is the best MRes item, but to put FoN 3rd to 6th? I'll have to disagree there. /notimportantsiderant You can't use "ergo, FoN exists" because there was no preceding argument. Come back when you learn basic logic and I'll teach you why you can't prove something is good by stating a reason it's bad. No preceding argument? If the only logic you can understand is simple logic, then you are correct. I apologize for assuming you're smarter than the average idiot. I'll make it simpler for you. THIS IS SOMETHING YOU SAID.THIS IS SOMETHING I SAID.DODGE CAN BE UNDERSTOOD TO BE A PERCENTAGE BASED EHP MODIFIER. DODGE ONLY PROCS AGAINST AUTO-ATTACKS. AUTO-ATTACKS ARE ONLY PHYSICAL DAMAGE. THERE ARE THREE SOURCES OF DAMAGE IN THIS GAME; PHYSICAL, MAGICAL, & TRUE. SINCE DODGE INCREASES YOUR EHP AGAINST ONLY 1 OF THE DAMAGE TYPES IN THIS GAME, YOU NEED SOMETHING OTHER THAN DODGE TO INCREASE YOUR OVERALL EHP. (Oh god, that's implying that the enemy team has at least 1 member on their team who deals a different kind of damage. Do I really need to explain the logic behind this assumption?)REFER TO STATEMENT YOU SAID: "dodge is useless against mages" MAGES DO MAGICAL DAMAGE. DODGE INCREASES EHP AGAINST PHYSICAL DAMAGE. THEREFORE, TO INCREASE EHP AGAINST MAGES YOU WOULD NEED AN ITEM WITH MAGIC RESISTANCE. THE ENTIRE POINT OF DODGE IS TO NOT WORK AGAINST MAGES. THEREFORE, IF YOU USE DODGE RUNES, YOU WOULD NEED TO INCORPORATE MAGIC RES INTO YOUR BUILD. THIS IS A TAUTOLOGY. BECAUSE FORCE OF NATURE EXISTS, YOU CAN USE IT. THIS IS AN AXIOM. DODGE SEALS EXIST AND CAN BE USED. GIVEN THE ASSUMPTION THAT ONE IS USING DODGE SEALS, THE EXISTENCE OF FORCE OF NATURE AUTOMATICALLY IMPLIES THAT IT (or a substitute magic res item, I use FoN as my example because it's the single highest source of MRes) WILL BE USED TO ACHIEVE THE OBJECTIVE OF INCREASING YOUR OVERALL EHP. ERGO, FORCE OF NATURE. Oh my god, so many assumptions. The sad part is is that because you didn't understand my post to begin with, you probably won't understand this post. Some people just don't get logic.
ALL CAPS AHHHHHH.
First of, no, you don't need FoN or Mres to increase your MEHP. Last time i check just having lotta HP works just fine. That ain't a tautology. Getting dodge does not implies getting mres.
If you were bother to read the convo on dodge before posting the comment, you would realize that the topic of the discussion was not to improve your overall HP.
On October 21 2010 11:48 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2010 10:39 Flakes wrote:
I like dodge because noone can see your dodge chance and being unpredictable is awesome (to me, disliking dodge builds is like disliking crit builds). Crit is different because it's damage output while dodge deals with random numbers when relating to survivability. That and dodge is useless against mages. And you don't have an orange dodge elixir.
Read the sentence Flakes wrote. The argument is about the unpredictableness of dodge. Flakes said it's awesome and compares it with crit builds. 5hit said no, because you're tossing your life up to chance, and mages negates that randomness, which mean that the suprise factor is not there anymore.
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On October 22 2010 01:45 Haemonculus wrote:
What's a modern Sivir build look like? I really need to learn a physical DPS type champ, and my old Sivir build doesn't seem to hurt people anymore, lol.
the old starks + banshee's one? lol, that never hurt people :p. I remember some of my first tl discussions were like, "omg, I'm following Haemonculus's build, but the other team just ignores me and then kills me because I do no damage" and everyone was like... "dude, duh, buy a fucking BF Sword"
Pro Sivirs like Yiruru go BF/BT stack + LW, why would you want anything else now that LW helps ricochet?
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But cmon aside from nid/jax who are you running dodge on over mp5/lv? I stopped taking nimbleness altogether because most of the good things to dodge (parrrley, gold card) are now unable to be dodged.
I dunno I could be wrong on this but I feel they're not worth taking, especially because there's much better skills in defensive.
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On October 22 2010 02:00 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2010 01:45 Haemonculus wrote:
What's a modern Sivir build look like? I really need to learn a physical DPS type champ, and my old Sivir build doesn't seem to hurt people anymore, lol. the old starks + banshee's one? lol, that never hurt peopel :p. I remember some of my first tl discussions were like, "omg, I'm following Haemonculus's build, but the other team just ignores me and then kills me because I do no damage" and everyone was like... "dude, duh, buy a fucking BF Sword" Pro Sivirs like Yiruru go BF/BT stack + LW, why would you want anything else now that LW helps ricochet?
Hey now I used to rock house with that build lol
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EPT
