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ok, I see a lot of people here discussing a lot of champs. But I can't recall if anyone has said anything about Teemo? Might be because I am blind or because he is considered to low tier for you almighty lvl 30's to talk about him.
Anyways, I play him as my main and I alt with Cho Gath when needed.
When I play teemo I usually go for Doran's shield+1 hpot opening
then Ninja Tabi for the increased dodge and survivability in the early game
Then comes last whisperer and trying to build to infinity edge.
Picking up lizard buff as often as possible aswell as the dragon once I can solo it
As the game goes onward I tend to go for Frozen mallet or Bloodsrazor thingy to increase the damage.
One thing that just hit me was: would ability power increase the poison passive's damage? If yes then maybe Tiamat or Hextechs gunblade (sorry that I am not 100% sure on how to spell the item names, but I hope you can see what items I am refering to anyways.) to increase both with a bit of AP and AD. if you could do this then I could see a viable poison damage late game, instead of a maximum of 175 dmg (which won't really be that effective when in late game :/ )
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51663 Posts
On June 28 2010 20:37 ghen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2010 19:57 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
WARNING: HUGE GUIDE TO CHOGATH
Please mark the old guide as "outdated" and replace it with this. Thanks Uta.
Great guide! I've started playing Cho'Gath but my utility seemed low compared to Gragas changing placement hardcore with R. Yesterday I noticed it was all rupture all the time with Cho, so I was going to try an AP build anyway :D Two questions tho about abbreviations: What's MFing mean? What's a tryhard?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tryhard
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On June 28 2010 17:14 Kultcher wrote:
Is it possible to hack in LoL?
Ran into something weird tonight. Not sure it’s even possible to hack this game, but this guy’s avatar on screen would be in place, just standing still, while meanwhile it was obvious that he was actually moving and attacking elsewhere. It was like the on-screen Jax was just a phantom illusion and the real Jax was invisible running around nearby and killing stuff. If you targeted the "phantom" it would sometimes send you running after wherever the "real" Jax was. Very weird and difficult to play against. He said it was lag but it sure felt like an exploit.
i think it isnt possible because everything in the game minus the textures/skins is all server side
what probably happened in that game was someone exploiting a bug, cause league of legends is filled with bugs.
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On June 28 2010 20:58 Vlanitak wrote:
ok, I see a lot of people here discussing a lot of champs. But I can't recall if anyone has said anything about Teemo? Might be because I am blind or because he is considered to low tier for you almighty lvl 30's to talk about him.
Anyways, I play him as my main and I alt with Cho Gath when needed.
When I play teemo I usually go for Doran's shield+1 hpot opening
then Ninja Tabi for the increased dodge and survivability in the early game
Then comes last whisperer and trying to build to infinity edge.
Picking up lizard buff as often as possible aswell as the dragon once I can solo it
As the game goes onward I tend to go for Frozen mallet or Bloodsrazor thingy to increase the damage.
One thing that just hit me was: would ability power increase the poison passive's damage? If yes then maybe Tiamat or Hextechs gunblade (sorry that I am not 100% sure on how to spell the item names, but I hope you can see what items I am refering to anyways.) to increase both with a bit of AP and AD. if you could do this then I could see a viable poison damage late game, instead of a maximum of 175 dmg (which won't really be that effective when in late game :/ )
Actually if you let Teemo 1v2 in the top lane and straight farm for 20 minutes (like, as a part of your strategy) he's pretty overpowered. His range gives him huge dps with Malady (I actually think it's a good build on him after getting owned by it a few times) and he's hard to kill with all of his evasion skills and shroom wards. He sits there and farms and if it's 2v1 he zones you super hard and if it's 1v1 he just farms really hard and shrooms out the lane. It's pretty annoying, his lane control in top solo is almost better than Heimer's, and then he's got a shit ton of DPS for midgame.
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On June 28 2010 20:41 e.soul[gm] wrote:
is this game played competitively anywhere? where are the league websites? my friends and i have been playing this quite a bit everyday considering it's summer, and sc2 is lackluster/no beta and we're interested in playing it competitively, but we're not sure where the main place is to play it. for example, css had cal league and cevo, bw had iccup. what does LoL have?
Season 1 will start pretty soon IIRC and that means leagues where ranking will be in order etc. When that start I really think it will become really competitive, and only then will it show if this game is really suited for it. For now we have hidden elo's and no ranking for premade teams.
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On June 28 2010 16:40 Southlight wrote:
Wait, people still think Shen's the best tank? He's a pretty bad tank now. Taric is also a crappy tank because he can't initiate. If you don't know why both of them suck at this whole tanking business (as well as to a large extent Gragas) then you've simply never played against a team that's hard to initiate against.
Amumu, Malphite, and to an extent Rammus (he takes a lot longer to get there, though, but his attack animation buff may help) are the three top tanks IMO, in that order, or maybe Rammus > Malphite. Alistar's tanking power got killed by the Flash nerf, the heal nerf, and his inability to farm. Perhaps the attack animation buff may have affected him, too, though, and so now he can actually get gold, to like, do anything. The reason they're the top 3 tanks is because once farmed they can solo enemy heroes, eat damage, and initiate almost whenever they want. This is crucial because against a team with Janna/Ashe/Heimer (worst-case scenario-ish) you're pretty fucked with anyone else. Shen used to be top-tier because he could just put up feint and walk in and there was nothing you could do about it. Not anymore - his tanking power is even worse than Udyr, particularly once Udyr gets Locket.
how different was feint that before? i enjoyed playing shen alot during laning phase of the game he's incredibly strong at that, but after we get to the late stages even with great items i couldn't keep up with the damage incoming as well as other tank heavy heroes such as morde or amumu or cho...
i tried to initiate in a team fight once by dashing in, feint and then get the hell out and pray that i could get out alive, rinse and repeat most of the time, i don even dare to vorpal blade sometimes to save the energy for feint and sprint. the best i can do for the team in team fights is get a frozen mallet and help to slow our focus target down. other than that, i couldn't really be at the front for too long even at about 4k hp i still get eaten alive pretty quicly...
i guess its a trade off though.
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Feint used to reduce all incoming damage by X amount for 1.5 seconds. I believe this scaled up to like 150. As you'd imagine, it's kind of difficult to output more than 150 DPS, especially at level 9. This basically made him invincible for 1.5 seconds every 5 seconds, which subsequently enabled him initiate by "just walking in."
Now, it is just a crappy version of Udyr's Turtle, and they are both privy to the same tanking issues. Namely, snares fuck them over, and they can't really stop people from killing their carries. They're both fabulous support/melee DPS in their own right, but you can't call them a real tank.
How important a real tank is is a different question altogether, and one that I would sorely love to know. Because when I play something other than a tank I end up raging at the fact that I don't got one.
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Honestly I've been feeling that aside from Amumu, the new metagame has been no-tank comps. A lot of the time a healer takes the place of the tank or they have 2 solo lanes and a jungle so they're just naturally pretty big.
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I think feint was base 160 at level 5. but w/e, they fixed that broken shit, so no need to reminisce about that dark chapter of LoL with 2 Shens every single fucking game.
no real, honest-to-god initiating tank setups only work if you're like, double support + huge ranged DPS + 2 ????. because if you don't have a tank who can pick a fight at a tower and you're trying to siege an Ashe + Ez team... good fucking luck, they'll just dump on you... which is why I really like traditional tanks, cause you know... Pantheon doesn't really have ANY use in a seige other than nuking like crazy once someone scores a hit. Up until then, he just takes damage for the hell of it as Ashe Volleys and you try to put pressure on without any real means to do anything. Setups like Janna, Soraka, Ez, Ashe, Kayle can only work cause they have the means to take a tower via attrition. Teams that rely on any sort of Melee DPS will find themselves fucked in the end game if they don't have a real tank.
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There was a game on... Friday night, I think? That I raged really hard at Kiko I think for not initiating into their tower in a 5v4 situation to counterpush while their Shaco whacked at our towers. He was Gragas. And his unwillingness to tank the tower and initiate exemplified why I feel like these "tanks" are not really tanks but just support with a whole lot of HP. To no real surprise we lost a game we shouldn't have because every single time their Rammus would just powerball into us, and their Shaco would insta-gib me in tandem with Rammus, and it's not like anyone else is going to do fuck-all about it because they're just waiting for the other team to start the fight.
And there was another game I basically threw because I got pissed off at, hey, what a coincidence, Gragas for again refusing to initiate, so I arrowed a Heimer and chased into his turrets instead of being more patient.
It's just really frustrating not having an initiator.
On the flip side when I play Amumu I feel like there're three types of games: games in which there's nothing I can do (either because people feed, or because people are too stupid and I have to keep blowing my ult to try to salvage stupid fights), games in which I help turn the game around with an epic ult, and games in which someone starts rolling and carries me with me just being sort of a safety net. Again, 1 and 3 are rather frustrating because there's a limit to how much a tank can affect the game. So it feels like I'm playing a hero that prevents stupid losses and makes up for a lot of stupidity, as opposed to a hero that goes out and wins games.
Edit:
I guess that's what it boils down to, doesn't it. I've been favoring heroes that prevent stupid losses, for the past few months, and it's definitely hiked up my win rate and everything, but you feel useless when people are beyond hope or when someone on your team goes on a crazy roll and carries.
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that's sorta the nature of tanks/support though... I dunno, tbh, I find playing tanks/support on my smurf to be really fun and rewarding, but for w/e reason I'm much better playing Pantheon and at this point, I'm afraid my general unfamiliarity with playing other heroes in this ELO bracket makes me playing someone else a huge liability to my team.
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I'm just a huge fan of the "4 mid pushing/defending 1 carry top farming" strategy because it prevents the 5v4 as long as they don't have like, Blitzcrank. If you leave that carry farming top for too long they'll just freefarm/take tower and then you're facing a farmed carry a tower down. Do you try to force the 4v5 against Ezrael/Ashe defending turret in that situation? I think it's still really risky because they can hold tower long enough for top to get farmed, and there are a lot of comps that can do this now. Taking dragon/pushing other lanes is a good strategy, but I still don't know if there's a really good counter to this, assuming they have good cc or AoE to fight at tower with.
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On June 28 2010 23:14 Southlight wrote:
There was a game on... Friday night, I think? That I raged really hard at Kiko I think for not initiating into their tower in a 5v4 situation to counterpush while their Shaco whacked at our towers. He was Gragas. And his unwillingness to tank the tower and initiate exemplified why I feel like these "tanks" are not really tanks but just support with a whole lot of HP. To no real surprise we lost a game we shouldn't have because every single time their Rammus would just powerball into us, and their Shaco would insta-gib me in tandem with Rammus, and it's not like anyone else is going to do fuck-all about it because they're just waiting for the other team to start the fight.
And there was another game I basically threw because I got pissed off at, hey, what a coincidence, Gragas for again refusing to initiate, so I arrowed a Heimer and chased into his turrets instead of being more patient.
It's just really frustrating not having an initiator.
On the flip side when I play Amumu I feel like there're three types of games: games in which there's nothing I can do (either because people feed, or because people are too stupid and I have to keep blowing my ult to try to salvage stupid fights), games in which I help turn the game around with an epic ult, and games in which someone starts rolling and carries me with me just being sort of a safety net. Again, 1 and 3 are rather frustrating because there's a limit to how much a tank can affect the game. So it feels like I'm playing a hero that prevents stupid losses and makes up for a lot of stupidity, as opposed to a hero that goes out and wins games.
i think thats why alot of people dont like playing tanks. ive recently taken a liking to kayle because she can save stupid people and heal/support, but still dish out a ton of damage if i switch up my build late game(since GRB and nashor are core and take abit anyways).
i acutally have to take back my comments earlier about not lvling her E. one game i played recently i was with like 3 carries(ashe, yi and someone else) and was like well fuck it i guess ill have to go balls to the wall support/heal/push. lvled W>E>Q with one point in Q early. and it turned out to be a really fun game. and i didnt feel like i missed the points in Q either.
one another note, im sure ive said this before but GOD do i love tanks. i solo que at a mid elo so alot of the time i get horrible team comps and then vs against premades and it blows. but then i get games where i actually have some good tanks on my team and its so refreshing.
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On June 28 2010 23:33 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
I'm just a huge fan of the "4 mid pushing/defending 1 carry top farming" strategy because it prevents the 5v4 as long as they don't have like, Blitzcrank. If you leave that carry farming top for too long they'll just freefarm/take tower and then you're facing a farmed carry a tower down. Do you try to force the 4v5 against Ezrael/Ashe defending turret in that situation? I think it's still really risky because they can hold tower long enough for top to get farmed, and there are a lot of comps that can do this now. Taking dragon/pushing other lanes is a good strategy, but I still don't know if there's a really good counter to this, assuming they have good cc or AoE to fight at tower with.
When I'm Amumu, yes, I do force it, and while most of the time I die, we usually wipe them and/or get the tower. That's the whole damn point of a tank, IMO, and it's why aside from the "top 3" of Ram/Amu/Mal the other "tanks" aren't really.
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I still think Alistar's up there. He just needs flash + ghost to initiate properly, but seriously, wth else would he need?
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If I were to tier tanks it'd look like, in no particular order
Tier 1: Rammus, Amumu
Tier 1.5: Malphite
TIer 2: Alistar, Singed
Tier 3: pretty much all the other useless chumps.
On June 28 2010 23:29 Mogwai wrote:
that's sorta the nature of tanks/support though... I dunno, tbh, I find playing tanks/support on my smurf to be really fun and rewarding, but for w/e reason I'm much better playing Pantheon and at this point, I'm afraid my general unfamiliarity with playing other heroes in this ELO bracket makes me playing someone else a huge liability to my team.
It's fun when EVERYONE is stupid, and so you can kill panicking scrubs with a tank and not have to worry about saving your teammates because the other team's too crappy to capitalize anyways.
It's not so fun when Korea Angel on Trist gets hit by an Arrow, you Toss in to stop the Swoozee1 on Sion from stunning him with his 400 AP, and he comes fucking jumping right back in even though he should be in the clear, forcing you to make a split-second decision of whether to blow your ult or not in a futile attempt to save the game, which is unfortunate because this double death means your inhibitor is going to go down.
Because then you're not playing a game called League of Legends. You're taking a class called "Observing Stupid People 101."
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On June 28 2010 17:55 gtrsrs wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
i want to re-double the sentiments that shen is not the top tank
IMO it's rammus > amumu > whoever for pure tanking
but shen isn't a *pure* tank, he serves a much better role as a secondary tank/support hero
shen is my main and i am going to again throw out the claim that i'm the best shen on TL, and the way to play him is not as a pure damage soaking beast. he's a great ganker with ghost/blue buff because of the low c/d of his taunt and the absolutely beastly damage of vorpal. additionally, he is amazing as a roaming/pushing (hear me out! he obviously is terrible at killing creeps and is not sivir/heimer but he can threaten empty lanes and towers) hero because he can teleport to (a)help a teammate who's overextended or (b)punish enemy champs who have overextended
the thing that differentiates a good shen from a bad shen is their usage of their ult tbqh. a bad shen will TP to an ally the moment he or she gets in trouble. now instead of ganking your teammate they turn and run. good waste of your ult chief, have fun while for the next two minutes you have no map control. a GOOD shen will tell their teammate to turn and fight, focusing the squishy, and TP in at literally the last second, hesitate for another second, and use their taunt. the enemies will be confused and overcommitted. unable to run, they're forced to pummel shen's low-health ally who all of the sudden has an extra 400-750 damage soaking ability. as soon as that shield is down, shen taunts, giving his ally the opportunity to finish the fight or run and let shen take care of it.
as i said, shen is by no means a pure tank, and if he was he certainly wouldn't be as good at it as amumu/rammus. you don't want to just stand there and take damage from the start of the fight to the end, you'll get wiped out in a flash. listen to shen's quotes - "A demonstration of superior judgment." as a good shen player you need to be the judge of when the enemy has committed to a kill. let your teammate soak up some damage and return it, THEN come in to save the day when the enemy no longer has the option to give up the chase; your team will get to heal when they press the 'b' button after surviving the battle, and they might end up with 4 shiny stacks on their sword of the occult for your services.
a good shen also knows when his teammate has foolishly gotten himself stuck between 2 towers and 4 enemies, and refuses to waste his ult trying to save this lost cause. use your head: your 1-6-4 Yi isn't worth saving if it means that you (3-0-12, with 10 leviathan stacks) die in the process.
following this line of thought, however, shen's tanking abilities all but disappear lategame. the burst damage of 4 level 18 heroes will just demolish your ult, smash through your feint, and wreck your teammates. hopefully you've got a TRUE tank like rammus/amumu/alistar/malphite who can legitimately take a beating, or at least pray that you've exerted your will over the other team early enough to cripple their farming ability so they have to surrender before their kog'maw is hitting for 400 damage every 1.1 seconds with his ult
tl;dr lrn2playShen
What's your Shen build? How can I improve what I do? -
I'm still lvl 17, but when I hit 20 I was planning on getting HP Purple / IAS Red / Dodge Yellow / Cooldown Blue.
Masteries, I'm guessing 9/21/0?
For items, I go ruby / heart of gold / mercury's / aegis / finish randuins / sunfires
Spells, cleanse / ghost
skills are ult > vorpal > shadow dash > feint (I don't put a single point in feint until vorpal and dash are max)
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get at least 1 sunfire before finishing your randuin's IMO.
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Yeah I was thinking that'd be good because you keep the Heart longer
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I don't think Randuin gives you enough "stuff" to be worth the cost for a while. The AoE slow is obviously good utility, but Warden's Mail is a very mediocre item, and dishing out 2000 gold to get a mediocre item and upgrade it to get a (at the juncture that you make it) very weak slow isn't really wort it. As Mog said, you should get at least a Sunfire (for the HP) or something of the sort.
Edit:
Especially for a hero like Shen, who benefits greatly from max HP moreso than dumping 2000 gold into a 1.5-second snare.
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EPT
