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if a DP comes out of nowhere they are likely mashing the shit out of it during their hit stun or recovery frames. This typically happens when your jump in are hitting them too early or if you are unable to link your combos correctly.
I just said it shouldn't hit me when I'm doing a crouching heavy kick to punish another blocked move.
http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2010/may/09/juris-frame-data-super-street-fighter-4/
it's a really slow normal and probably shouldn't use it against shotos who know when to dp.
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yeah if you are poking with juri's c.mk you have to cancel it to a fireball or else they can dp you after
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United States12224 Posts
On July 07 2010 01:54 Odinsphere wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2010 14:40 Bill307 wrote:On July 06 2010 12:50 kainzero wrote: Man, I'm slumping hard. Can't get a win with Juri at all.
I also wish I could enter Evo. Damnit. I should've actually found a ride for Thursday instead of Friday. Oh well. At least I know a bunch of people... Try changing characters. I started with Makoto and couldn't win any games. Literally. I think I won at most 2 games against guys at my level. Then I switched to Cody and immediately I started winning against everybody. On July 06 2010 09:43 Odinsphere wrote:I was just trying to voice my displeasure at the "deadly" shoryuken. That shit hits me out of low jabs. Its annoying as hell. I think you'd hate to play against me. > The deadly shoryuken is only deadly if you permit it. Thats the thing though! I'm in the MIDDLE of pressuring and DP comes out of nowhere and stops it like that. I didn't say I expose myself to it every time someone does it. I just said it shouldn't hit me when I'm doing a crouching heavy kick to punish another blocked move. Like when a person does a combo string or a special move and its blocked they should be punished for it, but Ryu has the uncanny ability to just DP his way out of or through anything. I played this cammy a while back..all he did was spiral arrow...I would block..try to crouch heavy kick to trip him..and POW! right in the kisser with a cannon spike. Don't worry..I learn more from my loses than from my victories. Dumb strategies like that are sort of like a protoss proxy...it might work once..but it won't work next time.
Combination of three things: 1) online latency may delay by a few frames when your move comes out, and typically you have to compensate for this by doing the move a little earlier than normal. 2) You're using a move that is too slow to punish a blocked Spiral Arrow. 3) Cannon Spike has an invincible startup meaning you aren't going to trade with or beat it.
For example, against a blocked Spiral Arrow with Sakura I can cl.hp xx lk tatsu cr.hp xx EX tatsu for free because cl.hp has a startup of only 3 frames and the timing is doable even online. The more startup frames a move has, the greater the risk that an invincible move will beat you because of latency (the internet delay between your input and the game registering it).
EDIT: Also, distance is important with Spiral Arrow specifically (as well as with other "slide" type moves like Blanka's and Bison's). If they hit you toward max distance, those moves can be safe on block. If someone does a HK Spiral Arrow on you from point blank range though then you have a lot more time to punish after you block. Never forget the distance factor.
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On July 06 2010 14:40 Bill307 wrote:Try changing characters. I started with Makoto and couldn't win any games. Literally. I think I won at most 2 games against guys at my level. Then I switched to Cody and immediately I started winning against everybody. Well, I can't win many games recently with Juri, and the games I win, I don't feel like I outright won them. Plus I've been horribly anti-clutch recently, not being able to finish close matches.
In a recent tournament match, I played against a bad Sakura and I had to eke out the win, which means I'm just making too many mistakes lately.
I just gotta play through it.
Makoto is just hard to use, my record with her is 7-47 or something ridiculous like that. My Juri is high 50% and my Sakura is high 60%...
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eventhubs finally got rid of that crappy tier list that people kept quoting despite it being obviously wrong across the board, hurray
edit: or rather they posted the actual recent JP tier lists on their front page news, the terrible one is still in their articles or whatever
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On July 07 2010 04:01 MCMcEmcee wrote: eventhubs finally got rid of that crappy tier list that people kept quoting despite it being obviously wrong across the board, hurray
edit: or rather they posted the actual recent JP tier lists on their front page news, the terrible one is still in their articles or whatever
Eventhubs has finally gotten around to making a tier list for SSF4? I saw the one for reg. and it seemed legit. Or are you saying that the reg. tier list was crap?
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On July 06 2010 03:55 sung_moon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2010 03:17 iG.ClouD wrote:On July 05 2010 17:41 Panoptic wrote:Anyone know this channel? http://www.youtube.com/user/DSPStreetFighterI'm amazed at how bad mannered this guy is and yet how popular his channel is. Is this the norm in the street fighter community? No but people tend to have fun watching idiots. The reason is still unknown though. met him in RL. think he does it to be funny. I THINK..... he was a lot more relax organizing NECX considering how many entrants came in late when their team got called and started bitching that they got DQ'd -_- I've watched a lot of his videos. Apparently he has back problems so he can't really do much but game all day. He does a lot of walkthrough type videos for all sorts of games, and he is also a very avid fighting games player. half the time he is just fucking around and making a show, but there are plenty of times where he is genuinely raging. So it's entertaining either way.
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On July 07 2010 13:13 CharlieMurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2010 03:55 sung_moon wrote:On July 06 2010 03:17 iG.ClouD wrote:On July 05 2010 17:41 Panoptic wrote:Anyone know this channel? http://www.youtube.com/user/DSPStreetFighterI'm amazed at how bad mannered this guy is and yet how popular his channel is. Is this the norm in the street fighter community? No but people tend to have fun watching idiots. The reason is still unknown though. met him in RL. think he does it to be funny. I THINK..... he was a lot more relax organizing NECX considering how many entrants came in late when their team got called and started bitching that they got DQ'd -_- I've watched a lot of his videos. Apparently he has back problems so he can't really do much but game all day. He does a lot of walkthrough type videos for all sorts of games, and he is also a very avid fighting games player. half the time he is just fucking around and making a show, but there are plenty of times where he is genuinely raging. So it's entertaining either way.
So is "I blocked that but ok" his favorite quote?
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On July 07 2010 12:53 Odinsphere wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2010 04:01 MCMcEmcee wrote: eventhubs finally got rid of that crappy tier list that people kept quoting despite it being obviously wrong across the board, hurray
edit: or rather they posted the actual recent JP tier lists on their front page news, the terrible one is still in their articles or whatever Eventhubs has finally gotten around to making a tier list for SSF4? I saw the one for reg. and it seemed legit. Or are you saying that the reg. tier list was crap? There was a "Japanese tier list" that people kept quoting, which didn't line up with any actual Japanese tier list discussion that was going on at the time. Stuff like D rank Rose (lololol) and C rank Cammy and such. S rank Sagat! If it wasn't just them taking input from any random person and making their own list, then it was at best a random list posted on a BBS with no real attention paid to who actually posted it (JAPANESE SOURCES).
Clearly the game is still relatively new and Japan still has SBO to prepare for while they're trying to enjoy Super instead, so there's a lot of wiggle room still... but there are a lot of obvious, broad assessments that can be made about characters at the moment, and most of them aren't even new. So silly to still see people saying "omg so good to see someone rep Rose/Fei-Long/Cammy/etc." and such in comments when Rose/Fei-Long/Cammy have been B+/A rank for a while now. Sure was cool seeing people rep underdogs in vanilla like boxer and Rufus, too.
On a slightly related note since you were posting about this earlier: Don't bother trying to punish things with Juri's sweep. It's way too slow to be considered a punish move, 90% of the time you can actually punish something with sweep, you could punish it easier with a full combo.
If you're getting DP'd out of pressure, tighten up your pressure and start baiting DPs. If you're getting DP'd when you're trying to punish something, either your punish is completely wrong or the move isn't punishable. And honestly everything you've posted about getting DP'd implies that you DO "expose yourself" to getting DP'd quite a bit. You might not think that, but that's because you don't know enough about the game and are going on your own misinformed assumptions about how the game "should" be. If you get hit by a DP at all, you were "exposed." Instead of saying "omg DPs are so good and DPing people out of poorly-thought-out sweeps is cheesy like proxy gateways," you should be asking yourself "why am I doing the moves that are getting DP'd in these situations, and how can I do something else in that situation so that I don't get DP'd?"
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On July 08 2010 05:54 MCMcEmcee wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2010 12:53 Odinsphere wrote:On July 07 2010 04:01 MCMcEmcee wrote: eventhubs finally got rid of that crappy tier list that people kept quoting despite it being obviously wrong across the board, hurray
edit: or rather they posted the actual recent JP tier lists on their front page news, the terrible one is still in their articles or whatever Eventhubs has finally gotten around to making a tier list for SSF4? I saw the one for reg. and it seemed legit. Or are you saying that the reg. tier list was crap? There was a "Japanese tier list" that people kept quoting, which didn't line up with any actual Japanese tier list discussion that was going on at the time. Stuff like D rank Rose (lololol) and C rank Cammy and such. S rank Sagat! If it wasn't just them taking input from any random person and making their own list, then it was at best a random list posted on a BBS with no real attention paid to who actually posted it (JAPANESE SOURCES). Clearly the game is still relatively new and Japan still has SBO to prepare for while they're trying to enjoy Super instead, so there's a lot of wiggle room still... but there are a lot of obvious, broad assessments that can be made about characters at the moment, and most of them aren't even new. So silly to still see people saying "omg so good to see someone rep Rose/Fei-Long/Cammy/etc." and such in comments when Rose/Fei-Long/Cammy have been B+/A rank for a while now. Sure was cool seeing people rep underdogs in vanilla like boxer and Rufus, too. On a slightly related note since you were posting about this earlier: Don't bother trying to punish things with Juri's sweep. It's way too slow to be considered a punish move, 90% of the time you can actually punish something with sweep, you could punish it easier with a full combo. If you're getting DP'd out of pressure, tighten up your pressure and start baiting DPs. If you're getting DP'd when you're trying to punish something, either your punish is completely wrong or the move isn't punishable. And honestly everything you've posted about getting DP'd implies that you DO "expose yourself" to getting DP'd quite a bit. You might not think that, but that's because you don't know enough about the game and are going on your own misinformed assumptions about how the game "should" be. If you get hit by a DP at all, you were "exposed." Instead of saying "omg DPs are so good and DPing people out of poorly-thought-out sweeps is cheesy like proxy gateways," you should be asking yourself "why am I doing the moves that are getting DP'd in these situations, and how can I do something else in that situation so that I don't get DP'd?"
Dude you were fine until the last paragraph. Thanks for the advice..but I know the game. I never said DP's were like proxy gates. I said sitting around doing the same thing over and over again (like dhalsim teleport/punch that I can't block online). And the only reason I use DP as my source is because more than half the people online play Ryu. Its annoying as hell. Don't presume I think poorly...ryu is rather easy to use and DP takes priority over most ultra's as well. You see..if its not one thing its another. I play too defensively because I never know when someone is going to do a desperation ultra when I'm beating the shit out of them. Same applies to the DP. I would say more but anything else would just start an argument.
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On July 08 2010 05:54 MCMcEmcee wrote: Don't bother trying to punish things with Juri's sweep. It's way too slow to be considered a punish move, 90% of the time you can actually punish something with sweep, you could punish it easier with a full combo. You can punish whiffs with Juri's sweep. It has pretty long range and knocks down. It's a bit faster than standing far HK and has a bit more range than C.MK.
Also someone discovered you can link her sweep from jabs but no one's quite sure how it works.
...I'm just sayin'.
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On July 08 2010 09:15 kainzero wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 05:54 MCMcEmcee wrote: Don't bother trying to punish things with Juri's sweep. It's way too slow to be considered a punish move, 90% of the time you can actually punish something with sweep, you could punish it easier with a full combo. You can punish whiffs with Juri's sweep. It has pretty long range and knocks down. It's a bit faster than standing far HK and has a bit more range than C.MK. Also someone discovered you can link her sweep from jabs but no one's quite sure how it works. ...I'm just sayin'.
Maybe the linking has something to do with the Feng Shui engine ultra? I would love to use it more because there are some pretty amazing combos you can do with that the problem is most people play a crouch fighting game so the best you can do is link all three kicks together in once combo with that.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
you can link off her overhead (f+mk) into a full combo
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Yea I know about that..that can go into crouch mk + pinwheel or even her projectile(either release a stored one or even if you don't. It doesn't matter). But there are other combos as well..I'm working on my own. I miraculously completed all her trials back when the game first came out and with a controller. Not that I can use some of those combos but some people are guessing that I don't know what I'm doing when I play this game.
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On July 08 2010 09:15 kainzero wrote: Also someone discovered you can link her sweep from jabs but no one's quite sure how it works.
I don't know anything about Juri, but the frame data (from SRK wiki, dunno if it's accurate or not) says s.lp is a move with 3 active frames and +7 on hit, while cr.hk is 8 frames startup. If s.lp hits on the 2nd (3rd) active frame, it will be +8 (+9). Then you can link sweep after.
Probably s.lp has slightly more range on the 2nd or 3rd active frame, and if you have the exact spacing then the move will not hit until then.
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On July 08 2010 09:23 Odinsphere wrote: Maybe the linking has something to do with the Feng Shui engine ultra? I would love to use it more because there are some pretty amazing combos you can do with that the problem is most people play a crouch fighting game so the best you can do is link all three kicks together in once combo with that. I'm talking about non-FSE.
Myrmidon may be right. And I think the active frame hitbox might change with character since some people said they could do it on certain characters but not others. It is almost as stupid as why Sakura can't do C.HP - LK Shunpu - C.HP - EX shunpu on Ken and Ryu. She has to start with S.HP and only against those characters.
On FSE: -Activate only on a knockdown that leaves you close to the opponent: Sweep, MK/HK/EX Pinwheel, backthrow. In the corner you can also activate after dive kick and forward throw. (I used to activate on midscreen forward throw but even after dive kicking to get close you still don't have a big advantage.)
-That gives you time to plan a mixup to open. I usually go with an ambigious cross up J.LK. I've also done some crazy stuff like whiff Fuhajin MK Store - throw to reset the situation. Sometimes I do J.LK into overhead right away.
-Your FSE combo finisher should always be (C.LK) - S.MP - S.HK - (C.HP) - EX Pinwheel unless you want to try for a reset combo. The last C.HP only connects if they're standing and it whiffs often but it adds 30 damage to the combo.
-If FSE is blocked, try to finish with far S.HK into Fuhajin store. It's normally not cancellable so it catches people off guard, S.HK moves you forward so you won't whiff you store, and if you can get them to block Fuhajin you get frame advantage to mix up with.
-If they start running after you missed your combo, don't play stupid and jump and dive kick to get close again if it can easily be punished. Play smart and play calm.
-Get the timing down for overhead - C.LK, you need it, no excuses.
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Punishing whiffs is different from punishing blocked moves. 8F whiff punisher that knocks down isn't bad, 8F block punisher that gives no combo is terrible.
Non-FSE you can link after her overhead, it's just harder. Needs to be spaced/meaty/CH pretty much.
Nothing wrong with character specific combos. It's not like there are a ton of variations on "can I jab into sweep on this character or not?" Memorizing FSE variants on the entire cast is more work and isn't even that bad.
In FSE you can link overhead into c.forward. 400+ off overhead if you had short fireball charged. Kinda weird to plink it if you have a fireball charged but it's doable.
Off midscreen forward throw IIRC you can do dash, dash, EX fireball, activate FSE to get in their face and start pressure.
In corner off forward throw, store short fireball, FSE, you can safe-jump straight up j.RH on a lot of characters. If you're not worried about DP you can just go straight into c.forward/overhead mixup or whatever.
No frame advantage on fuhajin kick (-1 on block), and if they just sit there and let you release the fireball and continue pressure then you could probably get away with other stuff instead. I prefer to save some bar for when I'm in FSE to use EX fireball to continue pressure, much more effective in my experience.
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re: Juri link s.lp to sweep
If it's character-specific, it probably also has to do with the hitbox of the character getting hit, yeah. It's not Juri that's changing but the opponent. Different characters are different widths, and they have different-sized vulnerable hitboxes, etc. Vulnerable hitboxes also change during reeling animations, so I guess some characters just move around while getting hit in such a way that the s.lp will hit meaty mid-combo with the right spacing. I wouldn't be surprised by this kind of thing in SSF4 considering that somehow, Guy is throwable while in early hitstun, allowing combos into throw with the right setup.
This kind of mid-combo meaty is fairly common in good tool-assisted combo videos.
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dsp is pretty awesome IMO. i just wish he hadn't shown his face, cuz his voice is fucking amazing. i always imagined a troll playing street fighter. anyway he deserves some respect for actually uploading videos in which he rages like a madman. i can only imagine what the ones he doesn't upload look like LOL
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