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On August 05 2013 13:51 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 13:29 Scip wrote:
Why do religions need to be changed in this way? because it's boring the way it is and there's no true strategic depth to your religion choice it's just pick out of this list of bonuses to further whatever strategy youve already decided on and slap a name on it
I don't think there should be an ingame impact on your religion choice, it would stir up way too much unwanted attention to the bonuses (or deficits they would provide). I see no issue with how religion works now and while the choices may be mostly cosmetic, I don't think they detract in any way. I mean there has to be a reason why it's only the Great Prophet which doesn't have a name among all of the Great People.
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On August 05 2013 18:52 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 14:18 Sub40APM wrote:On August 05 2013 12:21 DeepElemBlues wrote:
The new culture/tourism mechanic is 1) useless until the industrial age really, it has no or very little utility for the first 3/5 of the game, and 2) what everyone else is saying above about it well ya, that was the point. just like GK made the early to mid game more fun, tourism/ideology made late game more challenging. In general I like the changes a lot...except not being able to win a culture victory without already have won some other victory first and then standing by just for the accomplishment. i just want it to have a little utility starting in the early midgame, sure you can consume great writers for a culture dump for example but there were big religious pilgrimages in middle age europe the tourism of the day so i'd like to see something tourism-related in the midgame to reflect that
but the religion in game =/= religion in real life...most religions were not created/controlled by the state and one of the big sources of conflict in the middle ages in europe was the conflict between the church and the holy roman emperors.
in fact, of the major choices, the only ones what i can think of where the state = religion is islam and sikhism and maybe bhudism and protestants if you strain a little at it...
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On August 06 2013 07:51 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 18:52 DeepElemBlues wrote:On August 05 2013 14:18 Sub40APM wrote:On August 05 2013 12:21 DeepElemBlues wrote:
The new culture/tourism mechanic is 1) useless until the industrial age really, it has no or very little utility for the first 3/5 of the game, and 2) what everyone else is saying above about it well ya, that was the point. just like GK made the early to mid game more fun, tourism/ideology made late game more challenging. In general I like the changes a lot...except not being able to win a culture victory without already have won some other victory first and then standing by just for the accomplishment. i just want it to have a little utility starting in the early midgame, sure you can consume great writers for a culture dump for example but there were big religious pilgrimages in middle age europe the tourism of the day so i'd like to see something tourism-related in the midgame to reflect that but the religion in game =/= religion in real life...most religions were not created/controlled by the state and one of the big sources of conflict in the middle ages in europe was the conflict between the church and the holy roman emperors. in fact, of the major choices, the only ones what i can think of where the state = religion is islam and sikhism and maybe bhudism and protestants if you strain a little at it...
Church of England?
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On August 06 2013 09:34 IMABUNNEH wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2013 07:51 Sub40APM wrote:On August 05 2013 18:52 DeepElemBlues wrote:On August 05 2013 14:18 Sub40APM wrote:On August 05 2013 12:21 DeepElemBlues wrote:
The new culture/tourism mechanic is 1) useless until the industrial age really, it has no or very little utility for the first 3/5 of the game, and 2) what everyone else is saying above about it well ya, that was the point. just like GK made the early to mid game more fun, tourism/ideology made late game more challenging. In general I like the changes a lot...except not being able to win a culture victory without already have won some other victory first and then standing by just for the accomplishment. i just want it to have a little utility starting in the early midgame, sure you can consume great writers for a culture dump for example but there were big religious pilgrimages in middle age europe the tourism of the day so i'd like to see something tourism-related in the midgame to reflect that but the religion in game =/= religion in real life...most religions were not created/controlled by the state and one of the big sources of conflict in the middle ages in europe was the conflict between the church and the holy roman emperors. in fact, of the major choices, the only ones what i can think of where the state = religion is islam and sikhism and maybe bhudism and protestants if you strain a little at it... Church of England?
Reyes Catolicos of Spain. Hell, the game already has the original Reina Catolica as the leader! 
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On August 06 2013 09:40 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2013 09:34 IMABUNNEH wrote:On August 06 2013 07:51 Sub40APM wrote:On August 05 2013 18:52 DeepElemBlues wrote:On August 05 2013 14:18 Sub40APM wrote:On August 05 2013 12:21 DeepElemBlues wrote:
The new culture/tourism mechanic is 1) useless until the industrial age really, it has no or very little utility for the first 3/5 of the game, and 2) what everyone else is saying above about it well ya, that was the point. just like GK made the early to mid game more fun, tourism/ideology made late game more challenging. In general I like the changes a lot...except not being able to win a culture victory without already have won some other victory first and then standing by just for the accomplishment. i just want it to have a little utility starting in the early midgame, sure you can consume great writers for a culture dump for example but there were big religious pilgrimages in middle age europe the tourism of the day so i'd like to see something tourism-related in the midgame to reflect that but the religion in game =/= religion in real life...most religions were not created/controlled by the state and one of the big sources of conflict in the middle ages in europe was the conflict between the church and the holy roman emperors. in fact, of the major choices, the only ones what i can think of where the state = religion is islam and sikhism and maybe bhudism and protestants if you strain a little at it... Church of England? Reyes Catolicos of Spain. Hell, the game already has the original Reina Catolica as the leader!
Henry actually created the church, Isabella was just a fervent Catholic but clearly the Pope was still the Pope.
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It's weird going from one game absolutely despising a Civ, and then being their best bro the next. Pocccatello in one game decides that he covets land I own despite me going for a one city victory as Morrocco, and in the next where I'm doing the same thing, he expands all across our side of the continent leaving me sheltered from everyone else, happily accepts my religion, and tears Suleimans ass to shreds as soon as he looked at me wrong.
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Does BNW change anything to make games post-Renaissance actually interesting?
I play on Immortal and I find every single game ends up the same. Either the closest AI bumrushes me with like 6 Spearmen and 3 Archers on turn 30 and I die or they don't attack, I'm able to get a decent army and conquer all nearby civs. By the time the first AI reaches Renassiance if I have at least 75% of the leader's score it's like an almost certain victory, and there's no point in playing out the game. Will buying BNW make this any better? Should I just play Deity?
I guess the problem is that the AI (at least in G&K) is fundamentally incapable of playing from behind, so they start with a huge lead and as soon as you reach parity the game is over. Doesn't matter how much free happiness you get if you spam AA guns against Battleships.
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On August 07 2013 03:00 Alzadar wrote:
Does BNW change anything to make games post-Renaissance actually interesting?
I play on Immortal and I find every single game ends up the same. Either the closest AI bumrushes me with like 6 Spearmen and 3 Archers on turn 30 and I die or they don't attack, I'm able to get a decent army and conquer all nearby civs. By the time the first AI reaches Renassiance if I have at least 75% of the leader's score it's like an almost certain victory, and there's no point in playing out the game. Will buying BNW make this any better? Should I just play Deity?
I guess the problem is that the AI (at least in G&K) is fundamentally incapable of playing from behind, so they start with a huge lead and as soon as you reach parity the game is over. Doesn't matter how much free happiness you get if you spam AA guns against Battleships.
Dude, I can't emphasize this enough; BNW totally changes the post-Renaissance game. It is entirely different. Definitely check it out.
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On August 07 2013 03:03 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 03:00 Alzadar wrote:
Does BNW change anything to make games post-Renaissance actually interesting?
I play on Immortal and I find every single game ends up the same. Either the closest AI bumrushes me with like 6 Spearmen and 3 Archers on turn 30 and I die or they don't attack, I'm able to get a decent army and conquer all nearby civs. By the time the first AI reaches Renassiance if I have at least 75% of the leader's score it's like an almost certain victory, and there's no point in playing out the game. Will buying BNW make this any better? Should I just play Deity?
I guess the problem is that the AI (at least in G&K) is fundamentally incapable of playing from behind, so they start with a huge lead and as soon as you reach parity the game is over. Doesn't matter how much free happiness you get if you spam AA guns against Battleships. Dude, I can't emphasize this enough; BNW totally changes the post-Renaissance game. It is entirely different. Definitely check it out.
Is it just more things to do or does it actually push back the breaking point of victory?
I guess I'll probably buy it eventually but it seems tough to justify getting an expansion for $30 when I have tons of uninstalled games from the Steam sales. Something particularly addictive about Civ though.
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On August 07 2013 03:10 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 03:03 farvacola wrote:On August 07 2013 03:00 Alzadar wrote:
Does BNW change anything to make games post-Renaissance actually interesting?
I play on Immortal and I find every single game ends up the same. Either the closest AI bumrushes me with like 6 Spearmen and 3 Archers on turn 30 and I die or they don't attack, I'm able to get a decent army and conquer all nearby civs. By the time the first AI reaches Renassiance if I have at least 75% of the leader's score it's like an almost certain victory, and there's no point in playing out the game. Will buying BNW make this any better? Should I just play Deity?
I guess the problem is that the AI (at least in G&K) is fundamentally incapable of playing from behind, so they start with a huge lead and as soon as you reach parity the game is over. Doesn't matter how much free happiness you get if you spam AA guns against Battleships. Dude, I can't emphasize this enough; BNW totally changes the post-Renaissance game. It is entirely different. Definitely check it out. Is it just more things to do or does it actually push back the breaking point of victory? I guess I'll probably buy it eventually but it seems tough to justify getting an expansion for $30 when I have tons of uninstalled games from the Steam sales. Something particularly addictive about Civ though.
The World Congress, the city/science change, and tourism/culture wars really change how victory looks and feels in the mid-late game. Diplomatic victories are still sorta cheap, but overall, victory circumstances have definitely changed dramatically.
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Quill18 just finished a let's play as Venice where he explains some of the new things about BNW if you want to see stuff in practice. The World Congress, trade routes and ideologies really mixed around late game. Early game is arguably more passive, Civs as a whole seem to be less aggressive early (mainly due to being gold starved before trade routes kick in) and barbarians seem to be raging constantly (which really delays said trade routes).
Honestly, I'm kind of worried that when I play aggressively early, I'll conquer like 2-3 Civs before the World Council is founded and I get embargoed and bankrupted. Hell, being at war itself puts my trade routes at risk and they're the backbone of your civilization in my opinion. If I'm a warmongering menace to the world it'll probably be hard to keep afloat.
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In GnK, I felt like the game was basically over by the industrial era. In BNW, the game doesn't really start until the industrial era.
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On August 07 2013 03:00 Alzadar wrote:
Does BNW change anything to make games post-Renaissance actually interesting?
I play on Immortal and I find every single game ends up the same. Either the closest AI bumrushes me with like 6 Spearmen and 3 Archers on turn 30 and I die or they don't attack, I'm able to get a decent army and conquer all nearby civs. By the time the first AI reaches Renassiance if I have at least 75% of the leader's score it's like an almost certain victory, and there's no point in playing out the game. Will buying BNW make this any better? Should I just play Deity?
I guess the problem is that the AI (at least in G&K) is fundamentally incapable of playing from behind, so they start with a huge lead and as soon as you reach parity the game is over. Doesn't matter how much free happiness you get if you spam AA guns against Battleships.
are you asking whether the ai is so much better than you that it no longer needs cheats? no. is there a lot more stuff to do around the industrial era and on when you theoretically reach tech parity? hell yes.
almost no one but the more aggressive civs bum rushes (mongolia/huns/assyria have early wars, ghandi no longer) but imo there is more stuff to do.
The only thing Ill say is they made diplo victory too easy if you have a reasonably built up empire. Its the quickest way to win the game. As Venice you can win as soon as diplo victory is available if you are planning on doing that.
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Going to try a large map with 10 extra city states and 2 less civ's to try to work around the whole diplo victory thing. While not disabling it entirely, it makes it more difficult to execute.
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On August 07 2013 03:55 RoyGBiv_13 wrote:
Going to try a large map with 10 extra city states and 2 less civ's to try to work around the whole diplo victory thing. While not disabling it entirely, it makes it more difficult to execute.
those settings would make it alot easier ... :D
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On August 07 2013 03:21 RockIronrod wrote:
[...] and barbarians seem to be raging constantly (which really delays said trade routes). [...]
Seriously what is up with those damn barbarians? was it always that bad? Besides that I actually kind of like the changes BNW introduced and don't mind that the early game is a little slower paced now.
How are you guys opening your games right now? I usually stick with Tradition as i don't think Liberty is really good anymore as my empires don't seem to be that large anymore.
Regarding trade routes, are you going for Gold/Science immediately? I personally think going for extra Food is a little more favorable for the first 30-60 turns.
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On August 06 2013 07:51 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 18:52 DeepElemBlues wrote:On August 05 2013 14:18 Sub40APM wrote:On August 05 2013 12:21 DeepElemBlues wrote:
The new culture/tourism mechanic is 1) useless until the industrial age really, it has no or very little utility for the first 3/5 of the game, and 2) what everyone else is saying above about it well ya, that was the point. just like GK made the early to mid game more fun, tourism/ideology made late game more challenging. In general I like the changes a lot...except not being able to win a culture victory without already have won some other victory first and then standing by just for the accomplishment. i just want it to have a little utility starting in the early midgame, sure you can consume great writers for a culture dump for example but there were big religious pilgrimages in middle age europe the tourism of the day so i'd like to see something tourism-related in the midgame to reflect that but the religion in game =/= religion in real life...most religions were not created/controlled by the state and one of the big sources of conflict in the middle ages in europe was the conflict between the church and the holy roman emperors. in fact, of the major choices, the only ones what i can think of where the state = religion is islam and sikhism and maybe bhudism and protestants if you strain a little at it...
Are You really going to complain about realism in a game where Irokez can eclipse england in technology? A game in which You can start as America in 4000BC? Dude seriously.
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I always name my religions stuff like G3T M0N3Y and $$HOLLA HOLLA$$
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I think my favorite name for a religion so far has been WILIN' OUT
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On August 07 2013 05:01 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 03:21 RockIronrod wrote:
[...] and barbarians seem to be raging constantly (which really delays said trade routes). [...]
Seriously what is up with those damn barbarians? was it always that bad? Besides that I actually kind of like the changes BNW introduced and don't mind that the early game is a little slower paced now. How are you guys opening your games right now? I usually stick with Tradition as i don't think Liberty is really good anymore as my empires don't seem to be that large anymore. Regarding trade routes, are you going for Gold/Science immediately? I personally think going for extra Food is a little more favorable for the first 30-60 turns.
The science bonuses on immortal or deity can justify making the early routes. Especially if you are going to make an early war, the bonus will make you reach CB faster and give you the income for maintenance. However if you have a city having no strong food tiles I like sending one caravan over there. On lower difficulties if You can keep up with the AI in techs I probably would go for population first, especially if I can work some lux tiles with the added 2 or 3 pop due to the route, to get the gold.
As for opening I have been going mostly tradition but ill try liberty being inspired by maddjinn poland start, even though I really dont agree with him not finishing pyramids in the early game it still looks like a nice start. Either way I enjoy trying stuff out and if I end up winning Im satisfied. I dont really care if another strategy would have cut 10 turns to victory.
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EPT
