• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:03
CEST 18:03
KST 01:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins Maestros of the Game 213ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7
Community News
MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon315.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes38Weekly Cups (June 22-28): Zergs thrive in new patch5[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)99
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes IP For new Brazil servers for NA Players Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2 Weekly Cups (June 22-28): Zergs thrive in new patch MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon
Tourneys
Vespene Cup #1 — $300+ USD, July 10 HomeStory Cup 29 Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All
Brood War
General
ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool Farewell Beloved Starcraft (Youtube Videos) BW General Discussion FlaShFTW vs A.Alm Grudge Match Event BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 The Casual Games of the Week Thread [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Summer Games Done Quick 2026! ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Five o'clock TL Mafia NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Power Rank Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Men's Fashion Thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard? Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Listen To The Coaches!
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 12037 users

TL Chess match II - Page 29

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 27 28 29 30 31 46 Next All
jfazz
Profile Joined September 2009
Australia672 Posts
January 02 2010 05:28 GMT
#561
Hey guys, I made it into Germany in one piece, and am now battling with the different keyboard setup

The correct caro line is actually;

1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Bf5 5.Ng3 Bg6 6. h4 h6 7.Nf3 Nd7 8.h5 Bh7 9.Bd3 Bxd3 10.Qxd3 e6 11.Bf4 Qa5+ 12.Bd2 Qc7 13.0-0-0 Ngf6 14.Ne4 0-0-0 15.g3 (15.Nxf6 Nxf6 16.Qe2 Bd6 17.g3 Rhe8 18.c4 c5 19.Bc3 cxd4 20.Nxd4 a6 21.Kb1 Rd7 =) 15...Nxe4 16.Qxe4 Bd6

phew!

and now the docile line begins with 17.Qe2, which in practice is quite easy for black to get a good game. the trickier line is:

17.c4 c5 18.d5!? (also possible are Kb1 or Bc3, both of which give white a very slight pull but are practically equal) 18...Nf6 19.Qc2 exd5 20.cxd5 Qd7 (fighting for queenside light squares) 21.Kb1 Rhe8 22.Bxf6 gxf6 23.Nh4 Re5 24.f4 Rxh5 25.Qe2 Rxd5 26.Rxd5 Bxf4+ 27.gxf4 Qxd5 28.Rd1 Qxa2

with good endgame chances for black.

Alright, i need to use the bathroom and get some food, more details when I make it to Paris.
Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
January 02 2010 08:23 GMT
#562
17. Na4
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
Incognito
Profile Joined November 2008
United States2071 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-02 08:55:13
January 02 2010 08:43 GMT
#563
+ Show Spoiler +


First of all, responses.

On January 02 2010 10:55 Athos wrote:
I play B3


+ Show Spoiler +
Addresses the potential threat of BA6 and solidifies our pawn structure. I'm thinking we can play RG1 next move followed by G3.


Read my analysis for why Ba6 is a bad idea for black. Its actually particularly bad after d6.

If 17. ... Ba6, then 18. c5, and if 18. ... dxc5, 19. Na5 Qb7, forced, 20. Nxc5 and black loses his bishop. If black instead plays the immediate 18. ... Qb7, 19. Bxa6 Qxa6 20. cxd6 wins a pawn.

On January 02 2010 11:15 DTK-m2 wrote:
Hi, I just found this thread. I'm not sure how I sign up, and I haven't read through that thoroughly yet. I just love chess.

I prefer 17. b3
+ Show Spoiler +

17. ... Qe3 is favorable for us, no? After 18. Qxe3 fxe3 19. f4

Na4 doesn't really let us do much with it. Sure, Black will have to move the queen, but where can we really go afterwards, other than back to c3?

Another option, I believe, is a3, getting ready for b4. Eventually, maybe c5 as well. If we exchange a few pawns, maybe the Knight will have somewhere to move.



Yes, 17. ... Qe3 is favorable for us, but not after 18. Qxe3, but 18. c5, as I have already mentioned. The knight is good on a4 because it gains a tempo on the queen while preparing c5, which, if you read the rest of the thread, you'll find discussion why it is an important square.

Move + Analysis

17. Na4

a) I have stated this line before but I'll make this short in case anyone didn't read my previous analysis.
17. ... Qe3.
18. c5

Now black has three options, Rd8, Rf6, and Qxd2.

If 18. ... Rd8, 19. Qa5 attacking the rook, 19. ... Bd7 20. cxd6 exd6 (if black takes on d2 white plays Qxe5 with check) 21. Ba6 Be8 protecting d6, but white takes anyway, because after 22. Rxd6 Rxd6 23. Qxe5+, white is winning. So after 22. ... Nf7 23. Rxd8 Rxd8 24. Nc5, white is winning. Black is down a pawn and has a weak pawn structure.

18. ... Rf6 was analyzed in my last post, and in this variation white declines the queen trade and hopes to win material trying to trap black's queen.

18. ... Qxd2 is black's best try, as noted in my last post. White doubles on the d-file and ties black down to the defense of his weak c and d pawns. White has a slight edge.

Verdict: 17. ... Qe3 is bad for black.

b1)
17. ... Qa6.
18. b3 c5 stopping White's own c5,
19. Qb2 <-- an awkward looking move, but...

This pins the knight on e5 and exploits the fact that the only defender is the d5 pawn. 19. Qb2 threatens 20. Nxc5, and black can't take the knight because of Qxe5+.

So black has no option but to defend the pawn with 19. ... Qc6, after which 20. Rd5, again threatens Nxc5. 20. ... Be6 allows us to trade a rook for a knight and two pawns with 21. Rxe5 dxe5 22. Qxe5+ Rf6 23. Qxc5 Qxc5 24. Nxc5, and black has no active plan and must stop White's connected passed pawns. Black must move his bishop, else 25. e5 wins. After black moves, white plays Rd1, taking control of the d file.

The trade of a rook for a knight and two pawns is good for white. The knight was black's best piece, and now it is gone. Two of black's central pawns are gone, which creates a passed c pawn for white, which can potentially become a connected passed pawn island. Although white's bishop is a "bad" bishop and appears to be passive, this is not a problem for white because white's central pawns are mobile, and white can make his bishop active quickly. Furthermore, white's pawn structure is excellent, which allows his minor pieces to find excellent posts to combat the black rooks. There are no open files for black to exploit, so black's rooks are not very potent.

Verdict: 17. ... Qa6 is no problem for white, as white can take advantage of the knight pin on the a1-h8 diagonal to force black into passivity.

c1)
17. ... Qc7
18. c5 Rf6
19. g3

Taking advantage of the overloaded rook.

Below are some inferior responses by black, which I analyzed while trying to find a good response for black, added for the sake of completeness, but unnecessary to read.

+ Show Spoiler +

If 19. ... g5, then 20. Rg1 forces the king off the g file. 20. ... Kh8 21. gxf4 gxf4 22. cxd6 exd6 23. Nc5! taking advantage of the weak back rank. Black can't take the knight because of 24. Qd8+ Qxd8 25. Rxd8#.

After black moves, say, 23. ... Rb8, White continues with 24. Nd3, threatening to win a piece by Nxe5, utilizing that same pin. After black clears the back rank to control d8 with his rook with 24. ... Ba6, 25. Nxe5 Bxe2 26. Qxe2 dxe5 27. Qc4 leaves white with a small edge. White has control of both open files, and black's king is stuck on h8 and must watch out for back rank mate threats. The undefended b2 pawn is actually untouchable, because of the threat of Qg8#.

If black moves 24. ... Be6 instead, then 25. Nxf4 Bxa2 26. Nh5 leaves white ahead. After black moves his rook, white plays 27. f4! and black can't move his knight because white controls the g-file and black's dark squares around his king are weak. The knight on h5 controls the f6 and g7 squares, and if the knight moves, then 28. Qc3+ and black must give up material to avert mate.

Other black moves at move 23, for example, 23. ... Bh3, still give white an edge. White continues with his plan of 24. Nd3, this time aiming for the f4 pawn. If black trades knights, he still has back rank problems. and dark square weaknesses. Qc3 is always nasty for black, and white also has threats of Bc4, eyeing the weak g8 square for the back rank mate. So my analysis is that 19. ... g5 would leave white with a fine game.


Black's best response to 19. g3 is 19. ... fxg3, leaving black with the initiative. After 20. cxd6 exd6 21. f4 Bh3 22. hxg3 Bxf1 23. fxe5 dxe5 24. Bxf1 where white has won two minor pieces for a rook and pawn. Both black and white have weak pawn structures, and it looks as if white's weak king will immediately be a target. White's minor pieces are out of position and cannot work together to defend the king. The game is also open enough that black's rooks will dominate.

Verdict: 19. g3 is bad for white here. The problem is the black bishop, which has the strong option of Bh3 after the g pawn moves to g3. Another problem for white is his misplaced knight, which plays no role in the defense after the trade of rook and pawn for bishop and knight. White wants to find a way to bring his knight into the game.

c2)

17. ... Qc7
18. c5 Rf6
19. b3

This is accomplished by the move 19. b3, which strengthens the queenside, allows the knight to come to c4 via b2, dislodging black's powerful e5 knight, and waits to see where black will move his bishop. The rook move Rb8 looks silly now that there is a pawn on b3. So looking at black's viable options, they are 19. ... Bb7, and 19. ... Bd7.

After 19. ... Bb7, black has lost the option of Bh3. So now 20. g3 fxg3 21. hxg3 followed by 21. f4 gives white a strong kingside pawn structure and kicks out black's powerful e5 knight. White is good here. So black's only other option is 20. ... g5, after which white is better as in my previous line with g3 g5. (Black's bishop on b7 does little to change white's strategy in this line, which involves moving the knight to c5 and d3 to trade with black's e5 knight.)

After 19. ... Bd7, white continues his plan of trading off black's good knight with Nb2. If black attempts to take the pawn at c5 thinking it is good now that the knight is gone, white paradoxically moves back to a4. After 20. Nb2 dxc5 21. Na4!, black can't defend the pawn. 21. ... Qd6 loses to 22. Qa5. So black's other hope is to push the c pawn and hope to disrupt white's pawn structure. But 21. ... c4 22. Nc5 attacks the bishop on d7.

If 22. ... Rd8, black loses either because white's queen is lined up with black's king, or because the queen gets overloaded by 23. Qc3!, and black can't avoid losing a piece. 23. ... Bc8 loses to 24. Rxd8 Qxd8 25. Qxe5. The knight move 23. ... Nd3 loses to 24. Bxd3 cxd3 25. e5!, and after the black rook moves, e6+ wins the bishop. Any other move loses to Na6, after which black can't defend his e5 knight. So black cannot play 22. ... Rd8.

If 22. ... Be6, then a similar thing happens after 23. Qc3. White threatens to win a piece with Na6, so the only defense is 23. ... a5. White now has two options, both of which are good. Either 24. Nxe6 Rxe6 25. Bc4 Rf6 26. Be2 with a solid pawn structure and control of the d-file, or 24. g3, and white now has better chances than the immediate 19. g3. Now 19. ... fxg3 20. Nxe6! Rxe6 21. f4 wins the pinned piece. So white is good after 19. ... Bd7.

Verdict: White is good after 17. ... Qc7, but only after 19. b3. 19. g3 would be a mistake because of 19. ... Bh3, giving black the initiative.


So there's my lengthy analysis.

I vote for 17. Na4 and you should too.
The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
January 02 2010 09:20 GMT
#564
17. Na4
there is no real question about this move.

+ Show Spoiler +

Positionally it should be nearly a pawn better than b3 since it denies black's queen of a5 to trade queens when our queen will be much more active.
Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
Arhkangel
Profile Joined August 2007
Argentina769 Posts
January 02 2010 13:58 GMT
#565
I vote 17.Na4

Everyone already posted their analysis.
Part Time Ninja
Xeofreestyler
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
Belgium6777 Posts
January 02 2010 15:07 GMT
#566
Yup agreed on Na4
Graphics
citi.zen
Profile Joined April 2009
2509 Posts
January 03 2010 03:24 GMT
#567
Wonderful to see strong agreement on the last 2 moves - I think we're in decent shape here.
Aut viam inveniam, aut faciam.
Incognito
Profile Joined November 2008
United States2071 Posts
January 03 2010 05:54 GMT
#568
Lol agreement doesnt mean we're in good shape, it just means our moves are forced or are obviously superior to other moves.
The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy
jfazz
Profile Joined September 2009
Australia672 Posts
January 03 2010 08:20 GMT
#569
from Paris now, with an even more difficult keyboard.

Na4.

I am playing some practice games today at the Paris Chess Club. Ill let you know how they go. I had 12 hours of sleep last night so I feel good at least!
Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
January 03 2010 08:46 GMT
#570
i am envious of you jfazz
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
proberecall
Profile Joined August 2009
United States104 Posts
January 03 2010 15:15 GMT
#571
get some pictures !
dozko
Profile Joined December 2009
United Kingdom160 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-03 23:35:24
January 03 2010 23:30 GMT
#572
Na4 is a good move here, the position is good for white IMO

+ Show Spoiler +
Mainly because black threw away the initiative through 3 semi pointless queen moves without completing development. Now after the queen retreats, white is in a good position to continue the queenside attack.


Edit: Oh and sign me up on the TL team if you will, please
People respond to incentives; the rest is commentary.
Myrmidon
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States9452 Posts
January 03 2010 23:46 GMT
#573
17. Na4

White team can still recruit members, right?
lightman
Profile Joined April 2005
United States731 Posts
January 04 2010 00:23 GMT
#574

CURRENT POSITION:



DARK BOARD













[image loading]




















GREEN BOARD







[image loading]






















JUST PLAYED: 17...Qe3

VOTING CLOSES: TUESDAY

Chuck Norris owns the greatest Poker Face of all-time. It helped him win the 1983 WSOP holding just a Get out of Jail Free Monopoloy card, and a green #4 card from the game UNO, against an AAA KK flop and his rival folding AK after Chuck raised him ALL-IN
RandomAccount#49059
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2140 Posts
January 04 2010 00:26 GMT
#575
--- Nuked ---
Ikari
Profile Joined April 2007
United States176 Posts
January 04 2010 00:34 GMT
#576
18. c5
God Mode: Alt+F4
Athos
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2484 Posts
January 04 2010 00:40 GMT
#577
c5
Incognito
Profile Joined November 2008
United States2071 Posts
January 04 2010 00:59 GMT
#578
18. c5, following my previous analysis.

@ dozko, yeah, three four queen moves and a queen trade doesn't seem like a very efficient to me.
The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy
Arhkangel
Profile Joined August 2007
Argentina769 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-04 02:48:03
January 04 2010 02:43 GMT
#579
I vote 18.Qc2 + Show Spoiler +
What's the downside of this move again?


If we play Qc2 + Show Spoiler +
his Queen is trapped
I have done a couple of lines showing this but they are way too long for me to type down.

If you have any reason why this move doesn't work I would love to hear it.
Part Time Ninja
citi.zen
Profile Joined April 2009
2509 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-04 06:01:59
January 04 2010 02:44 GMT
#580
18. Qxe3, response to Incognito below the fold.

+ Show Spoiler +
This is stronger than c5 for my money. Incognito's previous analysis of the 18. c5, Rf6 contained a mistake I think:

18. c5!. Black can't take, since 18. ... dxc5 19. Qxe3 fxe3 Nxc5 leaves white good. So...
18. ... Rf6 19. Qc2! and black' queen looks like it may soon be trapped. Black's queen already has no moves, all white has to do is attack it. 19. ... Be6 20. Bd3, preparing Rfe1. If 20. ... Qd4, 21. Bc4 and black must sacrifice his knight to save the queen.


Actually, black could just 21... Qxc4 at that point and be ahead a bishop.

I think the correct line if 18. c5 is 18... Rf6. Them we could:

19. Re1, but black will play Qf2, escaping on the king side. I think this is our strongest move but would leave us weaker than 18. Qxe3.
19. Qc2, as suggested by Incognito, followed by 19... Rf8 20. Bd3, Qd4 21. cxd5, exd6. We are still up slightly, but the black queen is far from "trapped" and the position is a bit more even in my view.

18. Qxe3 forces 20... fxe3, so we can 21. Rc1, c5. 22. b3 and we are essentially up pawn (the e3 one is not defensible by black). It is perhaps not very exciting immediately, but does give us a clear edge and is very solid.
Aut viam inveniam, aut faciam.
Prev 1 27 28 29 30 31 46 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
HomeStory Cup
11:00
XXIX - Group Stage Day 2
TaKeTV3418
ComeBackTV 774
TaKeSeN 368
SteadfastSC311
IndyStarCraft 219
Rex115
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 311
IndyStarCraft 219
Rex 115
SHIN 37
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 2152
EffOrt 1470
Soma 576
actioN 317
ZerO 251
hero 189
Sharp 143
Dewaltoss 102
JYJ 78
Mong 56
[ Show more ]
Pusan 43
Aegong 38
ToSsGirL 37
sorry 31
yabsab 28
NaDa 21
IntoTheRainbow 16
Terrorterran 16
Rock 15
Bale 11
Dota 2
qojqva2363
XaKoH 509
420jenkins412
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor218
Other Games
singsing3826
Dendi1282
B2W.Neo1095
DeMusliM375
Hui .217
XcaliburYe202
KnowMe117
QueenE78
ZerO(Twitch)15
Trikslyr13
fpsfer 0
Organizations
StarCraft 2
IntoTheiNu 1475
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream173
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 70
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• 3DClanTV 152
• EnkiAlexander 39
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 12
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis3681
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
7h 57m
HomeStory Cup
18h 57m
OSC
20h 57m
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
CrankTV Team League
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Snow vs Jaedong
YSC vs hero
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S3: W1
Douyu Cup 2026
Murky Cup 2026

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
SCTL 2026 Spring
HSC XXIX
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
Escore Tournament S3: W2
ASL Season 22:Wild Card Qualifier
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Eternal Conflict S2 E2
Heroes Pulsing #3
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.