TL Chess match II - Page 30

I havent really spent too much time on the position, but to me it looks like they should basically amount to the same thing, since it is clear we should play c5 at some point, but whether or not do it straight away?

In fact I believe Qxe3 is better here, which is strange since initially it looks like we are playing into blacks plan and giving a tempo back, but actually this variation 18.Qxe3 fxe3 19.c5 Rf6 (not taking as pointed above) 20. cxd exd 21. Rc1, gives us potentially both semi open files whilst still maintaining an undeveloped bishop.

In contrast after the direct 18.c5 black can then play 18...Qxd2 and after 19.Rxd2 before proceeding with our attack (cxd) black has the inbetween move 19...Be6, which develops this piece, connects rooks and could possibly generate some counterplay via discoveries against the knight on a4.

I cant see any tactics that make18.Qc2 a bad move, but it doesnt make much sense. Sure the queen is trapped, but we cannot exploit this. Furthermore If you leave the queen there, the bishop is potentially hanging if the queen ever moves away. But the biggest drawback of this move is that it allows black to develop with 18...Ba6, which piles up on the pawn. This essentially stops our queenside attack, because now 19.c5 would lose the bishop and I believe we are forced into passive defence such as 19.b3

@ Arhkangel, the queen is not trapped. Its only trapped after c5, when the queen can't move back to b6. 18. Qc2? fails to 18. ... Ba6, and white can't play c5. So Qc2 is bad.

*** Updated *** 18. c5 line.

@ citi.zen, hmm sorry I must have forgotten to write a move. I meant to add the key move 20. b3. Now whatever black responds, he can't deal with the threat of 21. Bd3/c4/b5/a6 followed by 22. Rfe1. The only way I can see that black can get his queen to safety is by sacrificing some material. (Made another error, black doesn't have to sac the knight, he just has to sac either an exchange or the queen for a rook + bishop). 19. Qc2! Rb8 20. b3 Rb4 (the only way to save the queen) 21. Bd3 and now black has two options.

21. ... Rxa4 22. bxa4 Qxc5 23. Qxc5 dxc5 and white has won a rook for a knight and pawn. Both black and white have doubled isolated pawns, but there are plenty of open files for white's extra rook to dominate. White is good.

21. ... Rd4. 22. Rfe1. There are a lot of options for black to capture from here, but both trade the queen for a bishop and rook. For example, 22. ... Qxe1+ 23. Rxe1 Rxd3 24. Nb2 Re3 25. Rxe3 fxe3 leaves white good.

@ dozko, 18. Qxe3 is incorrect here. Your line seems correct, but I think the analysis is off a bit White attains nothing after 18. ... fxe3 19. c5 Rf6. There is no way to immediately exploit the weak e3 pawn, and there is also no way to break the black center. Black would be doing well if Qxe3.

18. c5 Qxd2 is still ok for white. However I'm confused by your analysis of 19. ... Bc6. I think you mean Be6 since Ba6 loses a piece. I also can't see how black has a discovery on the knight, if you can clarify that. Anyway, 19. ... Be6 is not good for black. 20. cxd6. 20. ... Bxa2 is bad because of moves like dxe7, d7, and Ra1, all causing black troubles. White can also play Nc5 anytime he wants, a good post that gives good central control and protects the pawn if it advances to d7. Black is forced to passive defense, giving white the initiative.

which Rb8?
also, i don't think Be6 is as bad as you think it is for him... i fully expect him to do that

d5 dxc5 qc2 be6

i would DEFINITELY prefer 18. c5 dxc5
19. Qxe3
fxe3
20. Nxc5

check that out before you criticize, seems good, and i like having a knight breathing down his neck

After c5 he would play something like Rf6, not dxc5.

Huh? There is only one Rb8. Ra8-b8. If 18. ... dxc5 we wouldn't play Qc2. We'd use your second line where we trade queens then take on c5. 18. ... dxc5 is good for us.

i meant if he did Be6 (which Rb8) , but as you agree with me on that alternative, it is now a moot point if we can convince everyone else. I assumed dxc5 would be his best move, but after looking at it a bit more i agree that he will probably do somethign else

if he responds with Rf6 should we go ahead and do Rfe1?

Queen trade to c5 imo. The white knight really should be more towards the center. Get that sucker into action, and we should have better positioning.

No I think probably Qc2. Try to trap the queen.

Relevant lines IMO:

18. c5 Qxd2 19. Rxd2 Be6 and now:
20a.)cxd6 exd6 21.Rxd6 Bxa2, and another branch:

22a1.)Rfd1 (interesting but probably equal is 22.Ra1 Bf7 23. Nb6 Rab8 24. Nd7 [the "point"] Nxd7 25.
Rdx7 Rxb2 26. Bc4 Kg8, forcing exchanges on f7 followed by Rxa7+ Ke6 and Kg1, =) 22. ...Bb3 23.R1d4 Rab8 Nc5 Bf7 24. Rd2 (24. Ne6+ is bad - 24...Bxe6 25. Rxe6 Rxb2 26. Rxe5 Rxe2 27. Kg1, and after 27...Rb8, all the winning chances belong to Black), and after 24...a5 25. Nd7 Nxd7 26. Rxd7 Kg8, White's better and should have some chances, but it seems like Black should draw conveniently enough.

22a2.)Nc5 Rfd8 23.Rfd1 (if 23.Ne6+, Bxe6 24.Rxe6 Re8 and Black is fine) 23...Rxd6 24.Rxd6 Rb8 25. Ne6+ Bxe6 26.Rxe6 Rxb2 27.Kg1 Rxe2 28.Rxe5 and Black is at least drawing.

20b.)b3 (a3? Bb3 21.Nc3 dxc5 -/+) 20...Rfd8 21.Rfd1 Nf7. White has pressure and seems to have achieved a dream position, but Black is holding on and plans ...Rd7, ...Rad8, and ...d5, while it's not obvious how White can improve his position similarly. Bc4 meets ...Kf6, and answering ...Rd7 with cxd6 exd6 Nc5 is met simply by Re7. g3 g5 changes nothing.

Personally, I think White's major inaccuracy was failing to play Qd4+ at move 13, but that's neither here nor there.

After fxe3, we can play f4. then e3 is really undefended and we can go up a pawn easily.

Of course not 20...Bxa2 but black continues 20...exd 21.Rx6 Bxa2 now the most trouble black can have with this bishop is after Ra1, but then he just retreats. It looks like 21.b3 is also playable and then black still has improved his position since before after the break 21...d5.

However compare the position after Qxe3. Black's position is much more cramped, his pieces are undeveloped and white still has all to play for having both semi-open files to generate counterplay. With 18.Qxe3 black is forced into passive defense, whereas 18.c5 right away, whilst still continuing white's attack, simply gives black more activity. Furthermore note that the black pawn on e3 after 18...fxe is a viable target possibly, whereas when it is on f4 it is pretty much immune for now

f4 is a blunder since it falls for a bishop skewer, and blacks position is suddenly much better after we trade bishops

imo c5 is very playable ..qxe3 also playable , just depends if you want to go str8 to an endgame or not ,, in any event no question that c5 needs to be played either right now ,, or after qxe3 if you were not gonna play c5 then na4 was wrong... but the position screams for c5 ,, c4 is a future post for our knight via the b2 square for one reason it also can activate the light square bishop .. plays against the f4 d6 complex ,, there are myriad reasons take your pick for c5 .... either qxq then c5 or just c5 ,,,, also d5 break is not an option for b we control the d file , also it would weaken blacks e5 square /diagonal , d5 is suicide for b basically in the very long foreseeable future .....c5 is what you call a natural move,, one line possible for qxe3 though that leads to a slight edge for w imo is qxe3.. fxe3
c5..rf6 cxd6?(re1..g5 bf1..)...now 2 lines ..pxd6 rc1(not having the f-rook on the d file costing us again)...rb8 and rc3 winning the e3 pawn and taking a clear edge .. i didn't spend a lot of time on this analysis , so it maybe refutable

when i said 2 line i meant rxd6 was also playable for black in the end of the qxe3 line but that line is slightly better for white also after rxr pxd6 rd1... white ends up with a positional clamp and picks off the e3 pawn at will.... i plugged both moves in my deep fritz ,, and i felt immmediately qxq is better for white ,, but fritz disagreed with me ,, however... when i got past the horizon it could see .. like depth 30 ,, by plugging in moves it didnt see on its own ( this is the key difference between a master using an engine to analyze and a novice ) well when i got past its capable horizon .. lol it changed its mind and agreed with my initial assessment ,, so for those of you using engines be careful religiously believing what it says ... lol i am highly skeptical of my analytical silicone based chess buddy,, and its ability to discern endings accurately

Earlier, we opted to go for positional play and bring the rook to d1 as opposed to a more sharper line. I say we follow the trend for positional play and add more pressure to Black's d file. The threat of either a passed pawn or doubled, isolated pawns really attracts me in this position.

I do think both c5 and Qxe3 are very playable.

That is bad. 19. f4?? is a huge blunder because of 19. ... Bg4, trading off bishops and getting the knight to protect the pawn. Black has to move the rook on d1 to e1, else e2 forks the rooks. 20. Bxg4 Nxg4 21. Rde1 and white clearly has no real way to exploit the e3 pawn.

Both 21. b3 and 21. Rxd6 are good for white. It just seems as if black is let out of the box because the game is open, but I can't see how black has that many options but to defend the queenside after 21. Rxd6 Bxa2. He has two weak pawns to our one weak pawn, and can't really succeed at an active plan. The board is open, but he has no weaknesses to attack except the b2 pawn. We have the a7 and c6 pawns to attack, and his king is more exposed than ours.

Now I'll look at Qxe3. It takes a while to exploit the e3 pawn, probably with the maneuver Rd1-c1-c3-e3 or Rfe1 along with a bishop move. After 19. c5 Rf6 20. Rc1 Be6 21. b3 d5 leaves black good, because after the pawn trade, both sides have passed pawns, and black's e3 pawn is no longer weak and black at least has some chances in the center.

If instead of 20. Rc1, 20. Nc3, 20. ... g5 brings on black's kingside attack.

Anyway, I was probably thinking too much about the e3 pawn and a slow positional buildup in the center to miss the simple but yet non-obvious move cxd6 which strangely breaks black's chances for counterplay with d5 and vacates the c5 square for use by the white knight. After 21. Rc1 Be6 22. b3 Rd8 23. Rfd1 white is ok because if 23. ... d5, Nc5 blockades black's center and brings the knight into the game, and white should be able to hold the center and take black's e3 pawn without letting black out of the box.

After 18. Qxe3 fxe3 19. c5 Rd8, after which black plans to play d5. So 20. Nc3 Be6 21. f4 Nc4 22. Bxc4 Bxc4 23. Rfe1 d5 24. exd5 cxd5 25. Rd4 blockading the pawn, and white should be able to take the pawn and consolidate for the win.

Perhaps Qxe3 is a good move. Stylistically it is a bit forcing, but perhaps that is what the position currently calls for. I'll throw out my vote for Qxe3 and see what happens from here.