EPTI'm not saying this would be a great idea, but I think it's a playable gambit.
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oberon
United States1320 Posts
I'm not saying this would be a great idea, but I think it's a playable gambit. | ||
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
For instance, with Taric+Alist combo my friend and I push a tower in anywhere from 4 to 10 minutes, usually. But far more significant than the actual tower kill is the fact that we tend to deny farming for the other team's heroes, while the two of us get pretty farmed (as we can shrug off most of their harassment, even whilst doing constant stun chains on them to wear them down -> kill them if they stick around too long). Killing a tower without preventing them from farming hardly does anything. Another problem with having an early tower down is that you can't really capitalize on it unless you have a hero combination that can do so. Either that, or you have to have at least one hero constantly on the roam, for ganking purposes. But really, not only is it hard to have a hero do that, you have to have a hero that can do that early on. Otherwise, even if everything goes well, you'll kill a tower at level 1/2... and then have to wait until at least level 6 to be able to kill any heroes. It's different from killing dragon, where at worst you'll usually have only one hero detrimentally affected by the dragon kill (because only one hero will actually take damage/die, the rest will be pretty unscathed). Your idea of killing a tower not only damages multiple heroes (forcing a recall = lots of time/exp/gold lost) in terms of HP, but also appears to further hurt their gold total (Elixir early on, without any real killing potential to recuperate the cost of the Elixir). Something like a month ago we tried a 5-man level 1-push with TL ppl, and it semi-worked because we pushed 3 towers to their base, but things started falling apart as their Trist and Gangplank simply farmed, while they stalled us with 3 heroes. Not only were both Trist and Gang like 2-3 levels above us when they started engaging, but they were ridiculously farmed (as opposed to the five of us having needed to share creep kills), but the three that stalled us were on par level with us, because as much exp they were being denied, they also received more exp from the few creeps they were in range for than we did. Essentially you're looking at 5 guys at level 5 and they have three level 5s and two level 7/8s. If we'd managed to take out the inhib we may have won, but what the heck are you gonna do against a free-farmed Trist sporting a BF sword, ykno? Edit: Liiiiiiiiiiiiike, 10 minutes into a game, one tower just goes down, Taric and Alist combined creep kills ~50, combined k/d like 2-0, whilst enemy Jax who had the misfortune of laning against this has like 8 creep kills and is 0-1. More important than the tower itself (which is nice, mind you) is the fact that the Jax just got screwed for 10 minutes, which not only directly affects the game (Jax power delayed 10 minutes, and farming is usually easiest in the first 10 minutes) but also probably affected his psyche. In this particular instance he gave up once and tried to jungle at level 3 after he died at level 2, but his item/summoner build wasn't suited for it, so he came back FURTHER behind, then after we pushed tower he tried to run to top to three-man top, but a 4-man push killed top tower, and that was it. Nowhere to farm. But if we'd taken out bottom tower and he was at like 30-40 creep kills, we'd hardly have dented him at all, and barring superior pushing power trumping a strong Jax, the dead towers would have hardly meant anything, because the Jax can come in and own us 1v5 as the game goes on. Realistically, if he was at 30-40 creep kills, he could probably easily 1v2 us, and the game would continue downhill from there. | ||
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pokeyAA
United States936 Posts
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
On March 20 2010 01:06 pokeyAA wrote: Wtf, the whole community keeps telling Riot to just make it so you cant flash for a sec or two if youre taking damage to make it less a get out of jail free card, but they just keep reducing range like a retard. lol, Turkey last night was also talking about how they should do that to Nidalee's Pounce. Something like attacking reduces cooldown on it, so you wouldn't be able to use it to escape, but it'd still be usable as an offensive skill. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
Combines from Avarice Blade + Brutalizer + 600g +30 Attack Damage +15% Critical Chance. UNIQUE Passive: +20 Armor Penetration 15% Cooldown Reduction UNIQUE Active: You gain +25% movespeed and +70% attack speed for 4 seconds. Attacking enemy units increases the duration by 2 to a maximum of 10 seconds. 60 second cooldown. nom nom nom, will be getting on new TF. | ||
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
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Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
Main suggestions are to make the prolong only trigger on champions (so you don´t melt Baron and Towers as bad) and cut the active bonus. The idea was obviously to benefit non-mana melee Champs (The incoming ninjas, Mundo, Tyrnadmere, Katarina...) but it´s just way to good on ranged champions. | ||
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
Edit: Though when they do it'll be nuts. They need to nerf the aspd buff at the very least, I don't think there needs to be a movement speed buff, either. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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oberon
United States1320 Posts
On March 20 2010 00:08 atombombforpeace wrote: Missing rammus, probably the best tank early on with defensive curl, and soraka to boost that armor along with the heal. Besides that a rally would obviously be really nice, as well as a heal. As a random note, i always wanted to see revive possibly be useful for this early on, with perhaps a revive teleport rammus, who would tank the turret then death, and then once against. This is really interesting. If it's before minions spawn, and you die to the tower (not an enemy), there's literally no downside to the death. Of course, later in the game, revive becomes less awesome (same reason I wouldn't take Yi for this, despite his excellent DPS). | ||
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Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
Brutalizer you don't see on many of these ranged heroes for that particular reason. You don't need it, and it's excess expenditure for little gain. Mostly I see Brut on Ashe. Now, YG is very strong. But assuming it's balanced to its cost before it goes live, I don't know if it'll replace the LW/damage combo as core DPS items. The niche it covers is the LW niche, after all, in that it gives minor damage, armor pen, and attack speed. It also gives Crit, which builds well with IE (duh), but it also costs more than LW, and presumably gives less armor pen than LW. So you'll mostly either see people open YG -> +damage, or LW -> +damage, and I'm not sure that ranged heroes will drop LW to make YG, esp if it costs more (as you want to get the BFS asap). The real brutality of the YG comes as a third item on a select few ranged DPS heroes, primarily Corki and Trist, both of whom have the ability to farm like mad. That's where the balance issue would come in, I think. Heroes like Ashe, whom already open Brutalizer and are forced to build all 3 ANYways, will enjoy the nice, rather needed buff. Heroes like Twitch, whom tend to open stuff like LW->IE but usually struggle to actually farm, will probably never get to touch YG in most of their games. YG would essentially just turn into like a victory cigar-type item. | ||
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
On March 20 2010 02:11 Mogwai wrote: with TF, I will almost certainly be going avarice blade, starks, YG, LW. YG seems insane for damage output... + damage, armor pen, CD redux, and lets you burst huge AS... dunno what more you want and it eases the pain of it's 2.5K cost with avarice blade buff Random thought: I feel like TF has the same issue as Jax/Udyr, in that his primary DPS skill is AP-based. I feel like going pure DPS on him is pretty inefficient, but maybe that's just how it goes? I remarked to a friend that as much as his teleport/quick stun is useful, I feel like he's just not as... scary, as like a Corki/Trist/Twitch. I'd even argue Ezreal is scarier than him right now. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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oberon
United States1320 Posts
On March 20 2010 02:32 Southlight wrote: Random thought: I feel like TF has the same issue as Jax/Udyr, in that his primary DPS skill is AP-based. I feel like going pure DPS on him is pretty inefficient, but maybe that's just how it goes? I remarked to a friend that as much as his teleport/quick stun is useful, I feel like he's just not as... scary, as like a Corki/Trist/Twitch. I'd even argue Ezreal is scarier than him right now. GRB, anyone? Either way, TF was never about raw numbers. His map control and CC are both so fantastically excellent, the fact that he's even legitimately in the conversation with Corki/Trist/Twitch is good enough. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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EchOne
United States2906 Posts
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Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
Originally Posted by Shurelia Updated with new stats: Youmu's Ghostblade +30 Attack Damage +15% Critical Chance UNIQUE Passive: +20 Armor Penetration 15% Cooldown Reduction UNIQUE Active: You gain +20% movespeed and +50% attack speed for 4 seconds. Attacking enemy units with melee attacks increases the duration by 2 to a maximum of 8 seconds. 60 second cooldown. Melee Attacks refers to melee type characters- Yi, Pantheon etc. Makes it a LOT better, while the active numbers are no longer clearly broken but still great it get´s to be a melee Carry item, making Tyrnadmere, Mundo etc. finally valid. | ||
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