EPTThese days, all games are Janna/Ashe/Ezreal/X/Y vs Janna/Katarina/Ezreal/Q/Z. It's really that bad :-/
Janna + Ezreal/Ashe just push down a tower so quickly, there's nothing that compares to it. Any ideas to beat comps like this?
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Khenra
Netherlands885 Posts
These days, all games are Janna/Ashe/Ezreal/X/Y vs Janna/Katarina/Ezreal/Q/Z. It's really that bad :-/ Janna + Ezreal/Ashe just push down a tower so quickly, there's nothing that compares to it. Any ideas to beat comps like this? | ||
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SnK-Arcbound
United States4423 Posts
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oberon
United States1320 Posts
On May 19 2010 09:37 Chrispy wrote: ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/0nayO.png) Haha I have never played a game like my last one. I got every kill almost all the time. I was 16/0 before I died and had 16/21 of the kills. This chick is fun, I have her specced with my runes so that I have 20 ability power and 10 attack damage when I buy doran's blade. I guess their Akali gave up and sold all her items. Doran's blade seems to be your only attack damage item. Do you just play her as a straight AP burster once you have the spell vamp? | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
On May 19 2010 10:37 Khenra wrote: What do you guys think of the recent Janna domination? It seems like these days you can't win if you haven't got Janna on your team, it's so annoying. They're nerfing her eye of the storm but it's not the problem with her - it's the fact that she can clear creep waves and be gone 5 seconds before she actually does it, combined with her innate speed boost, and the fact that she makes it ridiculously hard to kill anyone if she's in the area. She's the best defensive hero in the game, and can stall games way more than they should be. | ||
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Chrispy
Canada5878 Posts
On May 19 2010 10:59 oberon wrote: Doran's blade seems to be your only attack damage item. Do you just play her as a straight AP burster once you have the spell vamp? Yes, I get Doran's blade at the start and with my one Attack Damage Quint I have enough for the 10% spell vamp right away. My items go: Dorans blade > magic pen boots > Haunting Guise > Rylai's > Abyssal Scepter > Trinity Force/Lichebane.I actually prefer Trinity force on her rather than Lichebane but I was in no danger of dying there. I get shit loads of HP on her because of how big of a target she is. | ||
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rredtooth
5461 Posts
On May 18 2010 17:45 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: i mean i have a similar number of total games played and almost always solo que except when i play with gozey expecting to lose. however, i have to disagree with the skill thing. you may not be bad at the game but there is a huge fucking skill jump when you start playing with recognizable names. i mean you better bring your A-game or you'll feed like all the lowbies you were yelling at on your way up.Am I the only one who thinks that Kat is the strongest mid in the game? Shunpo and Bouncing Blade are really strong harass moves and Death Lotus/KI make it really hard to stay in the lane if you're under around 50% hp. Also, and this is unrelated to your post, as much as I respect the whole 5 man premade thing, there are players in this thread that are really good and just don't play 10 games a day. Just because the win ratio and amount isn't super high doesn't mean we're not good at the game. Lots of us queue with players who are way worse because hey, we want to play with friends, and when we do, we don't take it super seriously because we don't care about our records, and it's not like the game is 1v1 anyway. If your team sucks, there's nothing you can do about it. I still stand by my claim that I'm the sickest chogath in the game :D. and i don't think anybody on this forum is the best _______ in the game. my kat included (i played kobe24 and he fucking rolled me). | ||
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rredtooth
5461 Posts
On May 19 2010 00:02 Mogwai wrote: seriously i'm beginning to think he's like top 3 mids. you just have to concede the lane to red potting panth or die and when he hits 6 he can gank pretty well with his remade ult now.Pantheon's godly mid. He's like Kat, but they have to start worrying about dying under 50% at level 3 instead of level 6. EDIT: zomg, that's great news. so happy they actually listened to us in the PTR ^_^. | ||
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rredtooth
5461 Posts
On May 19 2010 03:15 ichangedmyname wrote: i've played with him twice and both times he fed pretty hard. i mean like -5 or so. think we won one and lost one.@ whoever said phreak was bad: Hate bandwagon for his champion spotlights maybe? How many times have you played with him. He's amazingly smart. I do agree with you elementz is cool, but thats about it. | ||
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rredtooth
5461 Posts
On May 19 2010 08:12 SnK-Arcbound wrote: triple posting but shaco's dagger is magical and isn't dodgeable. dodge runes are good in the way flat health quints are good - they have an immediate impact and are still useful late game. how many times have you dodged that gold card and laughed as you ran away? i am leaning towards switching to hp/level though. 9 dodge runes is essentially a flat 6.8% increase in health but only vs physical dmg. hp/level probably gives more then that vs both dmg types and is probably more beneficial past a certain point. dodge runes were awesome on old kat because you could hit like 80% dodge with old KI and tower dive like a boss. but remade mechanics makes me want to switch to scaling health seals.While the damage is spell based, the attack can still miss. Namely: TF's gold card, Shaco's dagger throw, etc. i'm in a ridiculous loss streak that i can't seem to really break out of. like -15 from the same time last week. zzzzzzzzzzz. | ||
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Chrispy
Canada5878 Posts
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SnK-Arcbound
United States4423 Posts
On May 19 2010 12:55 redtooth wrote: triple posting but shaco's dagger is magical and isn't dodgeable. dodge runes are good in the way flat health quints are good - they have an immediate impact and are still useful late game. how many times have you dodged that gold card and laughed as you ran away? i am leaning towards switching to hp/level though. 9 dodge runes is essentially a flat 6.8% increase in health but only vs physical dmg. hp/level probably gives more then that vs both dmg types and is probably more beneficial past a certain point. dodge runes were awesome on old kat because you could hit like 80% dodge with old KI and tower dive like a boss. but remade mechanics makes me want to switch to scaling health seals. i'm in a ridiculous loss streak that i can't seem to really break out of. like -15 from the same time last week. zzzzzzzzzzz. Shaco's dagger is dodgable, as I've had mine dodged. However that was 2 patches ago I think, but if another instance happens, I can always mention it. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On May 19 2010 12:48 redtooth wrote: seriously i'm beginning to think he's like top 3 mids. you just have to concede the lane to red potting panth or die and when he hits 6 he can gank pretty well with his remade ult now. you only need red pot vs. a very select few heroes. boots/long sword are plenty good enough to shit on most solo mids, lol. The only matchups I honestly worry about are a good Karthus (he turns on defile vs. my burst... gay) and heimer for the same reason as Kat hating the matchup. | ||
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rredtooth
5461 Posts
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On May 19 2010 08:23 Southlight wrote: If I'm Ashe and I'm against a Cho you're not getting the chance to heal; I'm just gonna go straight for the kill from level 2-3. Trist fucks up your healing because she'll just anti-heal you whenever you move to clear a creep wave. It's the same thing with Sivir; if you're laned against an Ashe or Trist and you're Sivir, and they're not trying to kill you from level 2-3, you're playing against a bad Ashe/Trist. It's not you being good, it's the other player being really bad. Edit: ^^^^^ this is moreso in the case of Trist; I'm 99% certain it's impossible to beat a good Trist player with Cho. Ashe is a bit more iffy, because that one relies more on avoiding Ruptures with her crappy movement speed. I mean, I know there are hard matchups for Cho out there, but I've seriously mained Cho for about 400 games or so, and I know that Tristana and Ashe are not the hard ones. Tristana's damage early just straight up isn't comparable to mine. You can be the greatest player but if I just let your wave push to the tower I can last hit freely, and I take cleanse for any exhaust/ignite attacks. Chogath regenerates 40-82 hp per kill, based on level, and has BASE stats of 470 HP and 21 Armor. 52 damage per attack, + 4.2 per level (one of the highest damage gains per level in the game), with Vorpal adding an extra 20 or 30 damage per hit with my usual skill build. This is before level 6. That means you can't harass me with jump, because I'll just hit you and kill you faster. I take regen pendant so I'm regenerating 15hp/5 and 40+ per minion kill. Trist has a base damage of 42 and gets +3 per level, not exactly a huge chunk of my HP. At level 6 your burst goes up quite a bit, but mine goes up an equal amount, and with it my HP. I'm not saying it's impossible to outlane a Chogath with Tristana, but I main Cho mid and I second main Tristana mid and I can tell you that it's not a hard matchup for the Cho at all. Rupture mana comes up once a wave if you last hit well, and it gives you more than enough cover to last hit all the creeps because A) rupture kills the caster creeps if you time it right and B) Tristana taking a hit from rupture means that I run towards her and whack her twice. I think you underestimate rupture altogether, it's definitely Cho's strongest skill. Rupture does 305 damage per shot with a 1 to 1 ap ratio. The cooldown is pretty low 10 seconds at all levels, a little less with runes and any auras/buffs. A good rupture can completely change the tide of a teamfight, kinda like a full power gale from Janna. The range on rupture is huge even after the nerf and is a great chase skill because it knocks up and slows. Scream isn't bad either, but it doesn't do nearly as much damage and the cone is pretty small. Still, if you get a rupture in it's really easy to ensure that champ stays silenced on his way down. The reason rupture is so good in teamfights is because it's a delayed knockup. As soon as you see someone get stunned, you rupture. They get out of stun, get knocked up, land and take damage (soon to change) and get slowed. Anyone around them experiences similar effects. You run in, scream, hit, feast. At level 11, even with no AP and a typical build of max rupture 2 points in feast 2 points in vorpal and 2 points in scream, you're still looking at 305+130+128.2+550 for a burst of 1113.2, assuming you have no AP from Mejai's (Rupture+Scream+Hit with AA and Vorpal+Feast). I know the damage changes from mitigation and items, but this is just my thoughts on the matter. Chogath bursts really, really hard, and all it hinges on is being able to land a good rupture to start it off. This is hard against Trist because she can jump midair from Rupture, but it's not to say that it's impossible to kill her with it, and she will still take damage upon landing. I actually consider Chogath a counter to Tristana and Ashe mid. The only reason he's not usually a great choice for mid is because he's really slow without boots so you can't gank easily if they're aware, and you don't go back until you have about 3k at 9 minutes or so for mejai's + mob boots or merc treads and a levi or two ruby crystals. Not singling you out to argue or anything, just want to present my case for my main and second main matchup mid. I didn't mean for this to be an essay but it kinda turned into one. TL;DR Rupture is really strong and people underestimate it. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On May 19 2010 12:47 redtooth wrote: however, i have to disagree with the skill thing. you may not be bad at the game but there is a huge fucking skill jump when you start playing with recognizable names. i mean you better bring your A-game or you'll feed like all the lowbies you were yelling at on your way up. No, I agree, I know what you're talking about. When I 5 man with a certain group of players I queue against name drops and it's almost a completely different game. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
My favorite tank/offtank is actually Amumu, even though he's only broken when combined with the likes of fiddlesticks, the mere fact that when you DO combine them, you get ridiculous results is what wins me over. Plus, often ignored, his passive is INSANE. Once in a while I see trynamere with green pot and a good runepage DOMINATING in mid, and then snowballs into madness with ghostblade at 12 minutes. | ||
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3820 Posts
I have struggled to find a build with alistar that I can use at my ELO, with a pure tank build he just gets ignored, with a teampush build you need to rely on specific team combinations. This is where Powerstar comes in, an AP/Burst build for alistar which has very few weaknesses. Nobody can do this particular job as well as alistair, you become an extremely powerful jack of all trades who, cannot quite CARRY but you can dominate teams. - Zhonya's Ring + Health pot - Mejai's soulstealer / Boots of Swiftness OR Sorcs (situational) - Lich Bane - Glacial Shield - Rylai's - Frozen Heart Fit a leviathan between Lich bane and Rylai's somewhere if you feel the need. You will be well advised to purchase Blue elixirs at regular intervals. (or take golem if your team allows it) -------------------- WHY AP ALISTAR? because AP alistar is amazing and is the only viable alistar build in my experience now that his healing has been halved. with a few stacks on your mejai's you will: - Burst for 1000 (half of it AOE) - Be able to clear minions waves with Q (alistar becomes a farming machine) - Still maintain the exact same CC power (more because of the CD reduction you will need to get) - You sacrifice HP and pure tanking ability but since alistair no longer draws attention it's not neccessary. WHY NOT TANK/PUSH ALISTAR? - Tanking alistair has been destroyed, he can no longer draw attention to himself in a battle after his initial stun and he has been replaced by Shen, shen is a far better tank then alistar overall. - Push alistair is still semi-viable with locket but you will discover that the halving of your heal ability has really damaged your ability to sustain pushes. Masteries : 9/0/21 (Ghost + Flash) (Cooldown + Spell pen) Runes : Armor Pen Reds Mana Regen Yellows CDR Blues HP quints Summoner spells : Ghost and flash (no exception, alistar still relies on these spells) ----------------------------- The mentaily is to hit that mejai's 'sweetspot' where you have enough stacks to one shot minion waves (caster minions at first but then melee too), this will happen around 6/7 stacks if you maximise Q first. At this point alistair becomes a farming machine and you will be able to both defend towers and farm incredibly effectively. You are still an initiator, don't let your relatively low HP (for a tank) let you think otherwise, you are a Tank/Burstcaster hybrid with Burst equivalent to Annie, better CC and survivability (but much slower cooldowns). You still need to initiate into teamfights. and unlike tank alistair, you need to actually watch your health! Once you grab lich bane, you can expect around 200-250AP at which point your burst combo will do around 1500 damage. (including Lich procs). Lich is great for this build because you will simply devastate towers, minions, or whatever. This build, like most builds, is quite reliant on getting enough AP early to farm efficiently. This build is REALLY REALLY good, I have been working on it for a coupl days now trying to perfect it and it is just facerolling teams now because they do not expect an alistar to stand there, fight and destroy them. If you have any queries or want to try to explain any weaknesses in my build please do. | ||
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oberon
United States1320 Posts
On May 19 2010 20:31 Juicyfruit wrote: The main problem with Cho isn't that he's a bad mid, it's just that his ulti just isn't impactful enough at level 6, and he can stay in lane and farm all he wants but he can't push. Dodge his spine and he does no damage. My favorite tank/offtank is actually Amumu, even though he's only broken when combined with the likes of fiddlesticks, the mere fact that when you DO combine them, you get ridiculous results is what wins me over. Plus, often ignored, his passive is INSANE. I learned this recently. Was on Vent with the amumu, so we had perfect communication for set up. Oh em gee the rape. Must do again. Once in a while I see trynamere with green pot and a good runepage DOMINATING in mid, and then snowballs into madness with ghostblade at 12 minutes. As to Panth mid, That was never a particularly scary match as Sivir. Sivir's harass is better, she can spellshield his spears, and you just have to be aware that he can burst pretty hard. Maybe I never played a panth that was aggressive enough, but I have him in the same mental category as Annie -- I have the better harass, one screwup is probably ok, two may kill you (especially without time to pot in between). | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
EDIT: I've only ever seen one pantheon competently take mid other than myself, so I'm not sure if it's something that most people have much of an understanding about. You just don't see much Pantheon these days, and when you do, the Trist/TF/Ashe/Ez will bitch him out if he wants mid and not move, so you have to lane most of the time in solo queues anyway. | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
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