EPTNBA 09-10: The Roundball Rock - Page 29
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
For example - what if he, as a rookie finishes the season averaging between 22-25 points, getting about 6-7 assists, 5 boards, etc... really sick stats for a rookie. What if his team, which is ridiculously average (especially without a healthy and productive Michael Redd) ends up a top 4 seed in the East and possibly goes on to win a round in the playoffs. If such a situation were to occur (not likely, but who knows - this season is turning out to be really interesting), would Jennings get legit consideration for the MVP award? I guess it would also depend on other teams' and players' performances. Although right now I'd probably give the MVP to Carmelo Anthony. | ||
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city42
1656 Posts
Here you go buddy: + Show Spoiler + [url blocked] [url blocked] [url blocked] | ||
XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
On November 18 2009 04:01 Xeris wrote: Here's my question [purely hypothetical]: at what point would we have to seriously start considering Jennings for the MVP (note that I'm not saying he is an MVP candidate, just talking about a hypothetical situation). For example - what if he, as a rookie finishes the season averaging between 22-25 points, getting about 6-7 assists, 5 boards, etc... really sick stats for a rookie. What if his team, which is ridiculously average (especially without a healthy and productive Michael Redd) ends up a top 4 seed in the East and possibly goes on to win a round in the playoffs. If such a situation were to occur (not likely, but who knows - this season is turning out to be really interesting), would Jennings get legit consideration for the MVP award? I guess it would also depend on other teams' and players' performances. Although right now I'd probably give the MVP to Carmelo Anthony. I think people would have a really hard time making a rookie the league MVP barring some ridiculous production. And I mean RIDICULOUS. Lebron averaged 20/5/5 in his rookie season, but I don't remember any talk about him being MVP that year. Rose was about 17/4/6 last season and arguably took that team to the playoffs, but still no mention at all of him as a MVP. Neither stats nor taking a team to the playoffs after it missed them the previous season are enough by themselves. Both of those together? I guess it's not impossible, but highly improbable. Also, keep in mind that the award would be for regular season achievement, so they'd only be able to consider the Bucks' playoff seeding, not whether they went on to win a series or not. The biggest factor against Jennings though is the fact that he's in the same league as Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Dirk (great start), Bosh (great start), Melo, Durant (OKC should make the playoffs), etc. There are just so many other players who put up similar or better stats who are more established and whose teams will likely have a better regular season. Plus, voters may tell themselves that a rookie will have plenty of time to get MVPs later on, whereas some of the older players have less time. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
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A3iL3r0n
United States2196 Posts
On November 18 2009 04:23 XaI)CyRiC wrote: I think people would have a really hard time making a rookie the league MVP barring some ridiculous production. And I mean RIDICULOUS. Lebron averaged 20/5/5 in his rookie season, but I don't remember any talk about him being MVP that year. Rose was about 17/4/6 last season and arguably took that team to the playoffs, but still no mention at all of him as a MVP. Neither stats nor taking a team to the playoffs after it missed them the previous season are enough by themselves. Both of those together? I guess it's not impossible, but highly improbable. Also, keep in mind that the award would be for regular season achievement, so they'd only be able to consider the Bucks' playoff seeding, not whether they went on to win a series or not. The biggest factor against Jennings though is the fact that he's in the same league as Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Dirk (great start), Bosh (great start), Melo, Durant (OKC should make the playoffs), etc. There are just so many other players who put up similar or better stats who are more established and whose teams will likely have a better regular season. Plus, voters may tell themselves that a rookie will have plenty of time to get MVPs later on, whereas some of the older players have less time. MVP is meaningless anyway, since it is a subjective award. Dirk Nowitzki won an MVP award (his team got swept that year by the eighth seed GS Warriors), and he's not even an elite player. Steve Nash won back-to-back MVP awards, and his numbers are hugely inflated by the system he played in (compare the numbers on his Dallas years versus his Phoenix ones). Both are good players, but the fact that they both won the MVP before Kobe is ridiculous. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
On November 18 2009 04:59 A3iL3r0n wrote:Dirk Nowitzki won an MVP award (his team got swept that year by the eighth seed GS Warriors), and he's not even an elite player. Steve Nash won back-to-back MVP awards, and his numbers are hugely inflated by the system he played in (compare the numbers on his Dallas years versus his Phoenix ones). Both are good players, but the fact that they both won the MVP before Kobe is ridiculous. Uhhh, right. | ||
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BlueRoyaL
United States2493 Posts
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tonight
United States11130 Posts
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A3iL3r0n
United States2196 Posts
All Nowitzki does very well is shoot. He doesn't defend that well or pass that well, and he is an okay rebounder. So... why is that elite? | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
Incidentally Kobe was and is a great player but until the last few years (when they got Jackson back) he was considered 1) the shadow of Shaq and then 2) a conceited team-killer. Very far from an MVP. | ||
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
On November 18 2009 05:19 A3iL3r0n wrote:All Nowitzki does very well is shoot. He doesn't defend that well or pass that well, and he is an okay rebounder. So... why is that elite? He shoots very well from the field, the 3pt line, and from the FT line... and is 7 feet tall. He is incredibly efficient with his 3pt shooting, his high FTA and FT%, and very low TOs. He's not a great rebounder or defender, but he is at least average at both, with his size pushing up to above-average. He's been one of the best players in the world for the past few years, despite being one of the players who plays practically year around with his team getting into the playoffs (typically past the 1st round) and playing for Germany. Add in the fact that the guy almost never misses games and is a good guy (personality-wise), and you'd be hard-pressed to find many more desirable players in the league. Accomplishments-wise, let's not forget that he led the Mavs to an incredible season in 05-06 and was only a ridiculous amount of FTA for Wade away from winning the Finals, and that he led DAL to a 67-win season that was cut short by them landing the worst possible matchup for them in the first around (GS + the coach who knows him best). He's also managed to lead a pretty unimpressive GER team to several medals in international competition. | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
On November 18 2009 04:23 XaI)CyRiC wrote: I think people would have a really hard time making a rookie the league MVP barring some ridiculous production. And I mean RIDICULOUS. Lebron averaged 20/5/5 in his rookie season, but I don't remember any talk about him being MVP that year. Rose was about 17/4/6 last season and arguably took that team to the playoffs, but still no mention at all of him as a MVP. Neither stats nor taking a team to the playoffs after it missed them the previous season are enough by themselves. Both of those together? I guess it's not impossible, but highly improbable. Also, keep in mind that the award would be for regular season achievement, so they'd only be able to consider the Bucks' playoff seeding, not whether they went on to win a series or not. The biggest factor against Jennings though is the fact that he's in the same league as Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Dirk (great start), Bosh (great start), Melo, Durant (OKC should make the playoffs), etc. There are just so many other players who put up similar or better stats who are more established and whose teams will likely have a better regular season. Plus, voters may tell themselves that a rookie will have plenty of time to get MVPs later on, whereas some of the older players have less time. Derrick Rose led his team to an 8th seed, LeBron missed the playoffs as a rookie. If Brandon Jennings, as a ROOKIE, is the undisputed #1 (last year Derrick Rose also had Ben Gordon who was the main crunch-time player and scorer on that team) on a team that didn't make the playoffs last year, has been bad for many years, and all of a sudden brings them to the upper echelon of the East (I.E, finishing Top 4... not just barely squeaking into the playoffs) while producing incredible rookie numbers, might he then get considered? I don't doubt it's a long shot - but my question is that would people even consider it. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
If the Bucks manage to get into the championship picture it'd very likely happen, but that's a one-in-a-million if that's almost hardly worth speculating about. | ||
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
As a player, his value is obviously almost entirely on the offense end, but it's hard to find a better player when it comes to that end in terms of a player's impact on their team's offense. He's shot approx 50/40/90 (FG/3PT/FT) every season he's been in PHX, and averaged double-digit assists that entire time. Like the really great PGs of all time, he's able to make everyone around him significantly better, and can turn duds into good players with the way he makes offense so easy for everyone. Is Nash on the level of Kobe, Wade, Lebron, or even Dirk in overall talent? Probably not, since his defense is very far behind all of them. However, he's as pure a PG as you'll find (very different from those players) and has pretty much defined that role for the NBA for the past 5-6 years (Paul takes at least one of them away), and clearly deserves recognition as a Hall Of Fame-quality player. | ||
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city42
1656 Posts
On November 18 2009 05:19 A3iL3r0n wrote: All Nowitzki does very well is shoot. He doesn't defend that well or pass that well, and he is an okay rebounder. So... why is that elite? 25.5/11 career playoff average and the 8th highest career PER in playoff history. Despite being such a large part of Dallas' offense and sporting some of the most awkward looking moves ever, he has an extraordinarily low turnover rate. Being such a good foul shooter, his point-to-shot-attempt ratio is among the best in the league. He was stellar in the '06 playoffs and takes way too much blame for the '07 series. Jason Terry did a whole lot of nothing against the warriors and Josh Howard has never been a big-game performer. Don Nelson knew the team and its players thoroughly, and Dirk admittedly didn't play up to his standards (still put up 11 rebounds, 2 steals, 1.5 blocks and a 4:3 point-to-attempt ratio which is not terrible). | ||
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
On November 18 2009 05:34 Xeris wrote:Derrick Rose led his team to an 8th seed, LeBron missed the playoffs as a rookie. If Brandon Jennings, as a ROOKIE, is the undisputed #1 (last year Derrick Rose also had Ben Gordon who was the main crunch-time player and scorer on that team) on a team that didn't make the playoffs last year, has been bad for many years, and all of a sudden brings them to the upper echelon of the East (I.E, finishing Top 4... not just barely squeaking into the playoffs) while producing incredible rookie numbers, might he then get considered? I don't doubt it's a long shot - but my question is that would people even consider it. I would say no, except as a "wouldn't it be interesting if..." scenario. As was stated already, MVPs almost always come from the elite teams that people consider to be contenders for a championship. MIL has practically no chance of that, and the same holds true for Jennings as a MVP. The biggest factor is that there are too many good players on too many better teams for Jennings to squeeze into the discussion. The only way I see him being considered (and not just mentioned as an interesting hypothetical) is if he can sustain Kobe/Lebron/Wade-like production all season and MIL has a miracle season where people actually think they have a pretty good shot at winning the whole thing going into the postseason. | ||
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A3iL3r0n
United States2196 Posts
On November 18 2009 05:33 XaI)CyRiC wrote: He shoots very well from the field, the 3pt line, and from the FT line... and is 7 feet tall. He is incredibly efficient with his 3pt shooting, his high FTA and FT%, and very low TOs. He's not a great rebounder or defender, but he is at least average at both, with his size pushing up to above-average. He's been one of the best players in the world for the past few years, despite being one of the players who plays practically year around with his team getting into the playoffs (typically past the 1st round) and playing for Germany. Add in the fact that the guy almost never misses games and is a good guy (personality-wise), and you'd be hard-pressed to find many more desirable players in the league. Accomplishments-wise, let's not forget that he led the Mavs to an incredible season in 05-06 and was only a ridiculous amount of FTA for Wade away from winning the Finals, and that he led DAL to a 67-win season that was cut short by them landing the worst possible matchup for them in the first around (GS + the coach who knows him best). He's also managed to lead a pretty unimpressive GER team to several medals in international competition. I never said he wasn't good. He just isn't at an elite level, because he's fairly one dimensional. He's at the top of the second tier though. You can't make excuses about the first round playoff loss to the Warriors. Do you know how many 1st seeds overall have lost to 8th seeds? It's a tiny percentage. Dallas was the first #1 seed to lose to an #8 seed in the new 7-game first round format of the playoffs. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
Neither is Wade. Hmm. | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
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