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Map of the Swarm - Page 5

Forum Index > Final Edits
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whatusername
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada1181 Posts
May 16 2009 14:49 GMT
#81
I find it really ironic how in that poll everoyne thought it was going to be the most exciting map of PL
im gay
Mista_Masta
Profile Joined January 2009
Netherlands557 Posts
May 16 2009 19:40 GMT
#82
Very nice write-up. I'm really hoping for improvements to the balance of Battle Royal, since the concept of the map is great =)
ero
Profile Joined April 2009
United States66 Posts
May 17 2009 02:04 GMT
#83
Thanks for the excellent write-up.

So if the air-to-air overlord distance on BR is about 1:30 what is it on a more standard map like Destination?
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66366 Posts
May 17 2009 03:01 GMT
#84
On May 17 2009 11:04 ero wrote:
Thanks for the excellent write-up.

So if the air-to-air overlord distance on BR is about 1:30 what is it on a more standard map like Destination?

I'm guessing around 2:30, haven't tested it.
POGGERS
writer22816
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States5775 Posts
May 17 2009 03:55 GMT
#85
Great article but I found a minor typo under the BaBy vs ZerO game

On May 14 2009 08:51 konadora wrote:
As for Baby, despite ZerO being so prepared with hydralisks, spore colonies and overlords stationed everywhere, he had no choice but to continue producing wraiths, for it was too much waste of resources to start switching tech, and switching tech at that point of time would mean vulnerability to mutalisks. In the end, Baby finally switches to bionic, but by that point of time, it was already too late, for RorO had already gotten lurkers and a critical mass of mutalisks.

8/4/12 never forget, never forgive.
littlechava
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
United States7221 Posts
May 17 2009 04:26 GMT
#86
+ Show Spoiler +
Light nets the first non Zerg win! ZerO must feel silly
Entusman #12
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66366 Posts
May 17 2009 04:36 GMT
#87
On May 17 2009 13:26 littlechava wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Light nets the first non Zerg win! ZerO must feel silly

+ Show Spoiler +
I'm so writing a follow-up article.
POGGERS
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
May 17 2009 19:00 GMT
#88
On May 16 2009 14:31 littlechava wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2009 10:29 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
On May 15 2009 08:14 RoieTRS wrote:
On May 15 2009 07:38 konadora wrote:
On May 15 2009 05:24 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
On May 15 2009 03:10 Elyvilon wrote:
On May 15 2009 01:37 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
nice read. Good analysis as well. I really hope that they replace the map before the end of this season...ZvZ's are getting tiring (as is watching jd and lux win every single game on the map -_-


Fun fact: Lux has not won a game on this map.

Amazing article Konadora, thanks! That said, I don't think that we'll see a non-zerg victory on this map. I don't think there's some amazing strategy that just hasn't been seen yet, though I really hope so, since Battle Royal has some really cool concepts.


oh really? -_-;; Sorry. I kind of assumed that he had because his zvz is pretty good. Now that I think about it more, I guess yarnc has been winning on that map iirc.

Lol still confused with the twins huh...

I actually do that too sometimes. Just because everyone says their twins, it makes a weird connection between them.


One of them should play a different race. They look similar as well. It's tough sometimes if you can't read the names, or the team names on the top. >.> Then you just end up guessing, especially in mirrors (although if you watch enough games, you can start learning korean names! there's only...26 characters...I think...)

and just if anyone wants to answer it >.> Why isn't this map P>Z>T>P balanced? I've asked it in every thread that's been made about battle royal, and haven't gotten a good answer yet...To reiterate the arguments that I've made in the previous 2 threads on the subject, I would think that you could get the easy two bases like on gods garden, and then your third is even further away zerg. It's an open map once you break out, but P gets to stay on 2 bases for basically the whole game, and the fact that the other bases are open should make a timing attack pretty viable (and make getting the third for P tough as well, but I don't think that the games would last that long). I also think that a 9/9 proxy in the middle would allow protoss to get the initiative, and if it dosen't do damage then protoss can take out the zerg assims, and leave the middle as a possible (although kind of dumb imo) double gas third.

I may be missing something here, but when I first really looked at the map I figured it'd be an impossible PvZ map simply because FE would be so vulnerable to lings, and 2 gate would be easily defended by zerg. If toss puts cannons at their small choke and kills the assims, zerg can get a decent sized speedling army early and crack the neutral buildings before the p can afford to lay down cannons to defend their nat+main. If you choose to try cannoning farther back the lings are free to harass either your nat or your main - whichever is least defended. If you 2 gate near your assims you can't really apply pressure with early zeals since it's so easy for zerg to kill their own assims. If you 1 gate tech you can probably defend your small choke early game, but zerg will scout everything you do, and respond accordingly. I just don't see how P has a chance without some ridiculous build like the one in Tempest vs RorO.


Since all of them are options, I would think that P would still have a chance. Zerg needs to 9 pool or overpool because of the risk of the 2 gate, which means that if you one gate tech and expand after your first sair (basically reacting accordingly to what zerg does with your first sair scout) you can deny the overlord scouting, take away that particular zerg advantage, and play a normalish pvz from there.
PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
littlechava
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
United States7221 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-17 19:44:46
May 17 2009 19:43 GMT
#89
On May 18 2009 04:00 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2009 14:31 littlechava wrote:
On May 15 2009 10:29 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
On May 15 2009 08:14 RoieTRS wrote:
On May 15 2009 07:38 konadora wrote:
On May 15 2009 05:24 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
On May 15 2009 03:10 Elyvilon wrote:
On May 15 2009 01:37 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
nice read. Good analysis as well. I really hope that they replace the map before the end of this season...ZvZ's are getting tiring (as is watching jd and lux win every single game on the map -_-


Fun fact: Lux has not won a game on this map.

Amazing article Konadora, thanks! That said, I don't think that we'll see a non-zerg victory on this map. I don't think there's some amazing strategy that just hasn't been seen yet, though I really hope so, since Battle Royal has some really cool concepts.


oh really? -_-;; Sorry. I kind of assumed that he had because his zvz is pretty good. Now that I think about it more, I guess yarnc has been winning on that map iirc.

Lol still confused with the twins huh...

I actually do that too sometimes. Just because everyone says their twins, it makes a weird connection between them.


One of them should play a different race. They look similar as well. It's tough sometimes if you can't read the names, or the team names on the top. >.> Then you just end up guessing, especially in mirrors (although if you watch enough games, you can start learning korean names! there's only...26 characters...I think...)

and just if anyone wants to answer it >.> Why isn't this map P>Z>T>P balanced? I've asked it in every thread that's been made about battle royal, and haven't gotten a good answer yet...To reiterate the arguments that I've made in the previous 2 threads on the subject, I would think that you could get the easy two bases like on gods garden, and then your third is even further away zerg. It's an open map once you break out, but P gets to stay on 2 bases for basically the whole game, and the fact that the other bases are open should make a timing attack pretty viable (and make getting the third for P tough as well, but I don't think that the games would last that long). I also think that a 9/9 proxy in the middle would allow protoss to get the initiative, and if it dosen't do damage then protoss can take out the zerg assims, and leave the middle as a possible (although kind of dumb imo) double gas third.

I may be missing something here, but when I first really looked at the map I figured it'd be an impossible PvZ map simply because FE would be so vulnerable to lings, and 2 gate would be easily defended by zerg. If toss puts cannons at their small choke and kills the assims, zerg can get a decent sized speedling army early and crack the neutral buildings before the p can afford to lay down cannons to defend their nat+main. If you choose to try cannoning farther back the lings are free to harass either your nat or your main - whichever is least defended. If you 2 gate near your assims you can't really apply pressure with early zeals since it's so easy for zerg to kill their own assims. If you 1 gate tech you can probably defend your small choke early game, but zerg will scout everything you do, and respond accordingly. I just don't see how P has a chance without some ridiculous build like the one in Tempest vs RorO.


Since all of them are options, I would think that P would still have a chance. Zerg needs to 9 pool or overpool because of the risk of the 2 gate, which means that if you one gate tech and expand after your first sair (basically reacting accordingly to what zerg does with your first sair scout) you can deny the overlord scouting, take away that particular zerg advantage, and play a normalish pvz from there.

There's a reason 1 gate tech isn't used as much anymore - it's because Zergs can defend it easily. Zerg will see the early sairs, so they won't kill many overlords, if any. Zerg can control the Protoss' assims, so the P won't be able to be aggressive early. I think the P would be starting the game at a disadvantage which will only get bigger as time goes on because the Z will have map control.
Entusman #12
mrlie3
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada350 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-18 00:01:54
May 18 2009 00:00 GMT
#90
I think Light won the last game cuz Zero foolishly went for hydras when Light went for bionics....
Crimson @ Clan CORE | ESFI World Translator
ReketSomething
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6012 Posts
May 18 2009 00:29 GMT
#91
I actually like Battle Royal...I guess I like small so... =/
Jaedong :3
alt.tday
Profile Joined April 2009
United States180 Posts
May 18 2009 02:04 GMT
#92
I wonder what would happen if Bisu were sent out on this map right now
♠Spades ♣Clubs ♥Hearts ♦Diamonds ★★★★★
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11393 Posts
May 18 2009 03:13 GMT
#93
On May 18 2009 11:04 alt.tday wrote:
I wonder what would happen if Bisu were sent out on this map right now

He'd baww as usual.
Moderator。◕‿◕。
indecision
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Germany818 Posts
May 22 2009 22:42 GMT
#94
amazing article.
fast ball player
Profile Joined December 2008
206 Posts
May 23 2009 00:28 GMT
#95
one thing you didnt mention in the long list of FBH's mistakes against savior was horrible micro against sunks/mutas at the end with his golies. hes attacking sunks, mutas fly in, he stops attacking the sunks when theyre halfway dead to focus on mutas. sunks do 20 explosive and gols are heavy units. possibly the worst micro ive ever seen on a pro game. i think kingdom's zealots that got stuck actually were controlled better than those gols.
Live free or die
malathion
Profile Joined March 2009
United States362 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-24 17:07:19
May 24 2009 17:06 GMT
#96
On May 23 2009 09:28 fast ball player wrote:
one thing you didnt mention in the long list of FBH's mistakes against savior was horrible micro against sunks/mutas at the end with his golies. hes attacking sunks, mutas fly in, he stops attacking the sunks when theyre halfway dead to focus on mutas. sunks do 20 explosive and gols are heavy units. possibly the worst micro ive ever seen on a pro game. i think kingdom's zealots that got stuck actually were controlled better than those gols.

Game was over at that point no matter what FBH did.
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
June 08 2009 01:28 GMT
#97
It's funny how geometry isn't mentioned:


Race Stats (non-mirrors):
TvZ: 12-3 (80%) [ Games ]
ZvP: 0-1 (0%) [ Games ]
PvT: 5-8 (38.5%) [ Games ]

Mirrors: 47 TvT | 4 ZvZ | 0 PvP

Is it OK for a map to be imbalanced as long as it favors terrans?
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8556 Posts
June 18 2009 04:30 GMT
#98
No, there are no such things as terran-favored maps, those are just "maps".
Jaedong
Ioannis
Profile Blog Joined February 2005
Greece62 Posts
June 18 2009 07:24 GMT
#99
terran = most imba race, there are many terran favored maps (Lost temple) and others,

and sorry to break it to you Battle Royal ZvT is 7-2
:)
FaTe)SoL
Profile Joined March 2009
Canada110 Posts
June 30 2009 23:38 GMT
#100
Hummm... Ghosts can fit through broken choke right? We might be seeing some boxer nuke rushes XD

Also: Lifting seems like a pretty viable way to negate the neutral buildings
The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity but, why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
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