EPTThis is why I am not overly concerned about the fact that blizzard hasn't touched MBS.
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pooper-scooper
United States3108 Posts
This is why I am not overly concerned about the fact that blizzard hasn't touched MBS. | ||
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Cloud
Sexico5880 Posts
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ForAdun
Germany986 Posts
On July 22 2008 07:57 Cloud wrote: I dont like that surround thing at all, zvt and zvp micro (and zvz too i guess) depend so much on how well you MANUALLY surround, its the difference between losing all your shit to marines/few storms and whatever while not doing any damage and totally raping. Have you actually watched gaming vods of SC2 yet? Watch Savior vs Hwasin for example, when Savior hunts down Hwasin's marines. It's just the pathfinding that makes it seem like there's some kind of "auto-surround" but there really isn't. I absolutely adore the new AI, it's amazing and I can't imagine SC2 without it. I'd never criticize it, there's no reason. It just rocks  | ||
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MrRammstein
Poland339 Posts
Sorry but there is no keeping track of workers in BW. In mid-late games there is always few of them scattered over bases and the only thing needed is to remember where they are and grab closest one to build something. Rest do nothing during that time? I'm surprised idle worker button was mentioned at all oO Is it purging attempt or what? I agree about SBS making BW better by constant need of doing something, bigger and bigger as games progress; I agree there are too many things making macro oversimplifying = Auto-Mine, Attack Move to rally points need to go; I just don't think turning whole UI to SC1 before trying to compensate for some enhancement in other way is the best way to go. EVERYTHING seems to jump, flies, or runs super fast. Wouldn't that be better to make units working in more dynamic way, taking enough attention and management as better way to (further?) compensate for things like MBS? Maybe after getting used to it after few (>2) days of playing versus players who play FTW, not to check out the game? Scouting much harder than in BW to embrace what is going on the map and not be surprised by flying pylons is good way to go IMO. Not keeping track of workers. | ||
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Dknight
United States5223 Posts
TL:DR | ||
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sylonto
United States44 Posts
On July 22 2008 08:52 ForAdun wrote: Have you actually watched gaming vods of SC2 yet? Watch Savior vs Hwasin for example, when Savior hunts down Hwasin's marines. It's just the pathfinding that makes it seem like there's some kind of "auto-surround" but there really isn't. I absolutely adore the new AI, it's amazing and I can't imagine SC2 without it. I'd never criticize it, there's no reason. It just rocks Better path finding for melee means melee units will get damage nerfs or speed nerfs that they would otherwise wouldn't have. Better AI which makes units easier to use means something is going to take a hit in the damage department. Good players can surround for themselves but now the units kind of do it for themselves so there's no point in doing it so theres no reward for being better, just takes away from the real power melee units should have with proper control. It's similar to scarabs. the only thing that keeps reavers from being OMGimba is the fact that their scarabs can miss alot, imagine what if they had perfect pathing? the result would be weaker reavers. ANY improvement to the AI means a weaker unit and that makes longer battles and no reward for being good. | ||
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ForAdun
Germany986 Posts
On July 22 2008 12:48 sylonto wrote: Better path finding for melee means melee units will get damage nerfs or speed nerfs that they would otherwise wouldn't have. Better AI which makes units easier to use means something is going to take a hit in the damage department. Good players can surround for themselves but now the units kind of do it for themselves so there's no point in doing it so theres no reward for being better, just takes away from the real power melee units should have with proper control. Hello, this is just what I said before and I'm asking you too now. -> HAVE YOU <- actually watched any vods yet? As I said, watch Savior vs Hwasin first before you complain. I don't argue with someone who's not even informed and since you don't take that vod or a similar one as an example we have no base for a discussion. | ||
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MrRammstein
Poland339 Posts
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sylonto
United States44 Posts
On July 22 2008 12:54 ForAdun wrote: Hello, this is just what I said before and I'm asking you too now. -> HAVE YOU <- actually watched any vods yet? As I said, watch Savior vs Hwasin first before you complain. I don't argue with someone who's not even informed and since you don't take that vod or a similar one as an example we have no base for a discussion. I saw all the sc2 vods and what you said was that there is no reason to complain about better path finding in which the AI sorta knows that since theres 5 zealots fighting in front the back zealot should go from the side, this is way too smart and will make the zealots weaker in some other areas to compensate for this power. "It's just the pathfinding that makes it seem like there's some kind of "auto-surround" but there really isn't. I absolutely adore the new AI, it's amazing and I can't imagine SC2 without it. I'd never criticize it, there's no reason. It just rocks" that's exactly what you said and that's exactly what causes units to be toned down | ||
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stiga
United States377 Posts
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fatalis
United States11 Posts
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Tinithor
United States1552 Posts
Anyways, i think that most of the so called "casual" gamers would not care wheather or not these features are in (Or even know what they are...) and would buy the game anyways just cause its from blizzard and it looks pretty. I mean if they were really casual then it doesn't mean a thing to them, unless people are determined to do almost nothing when playing a video game... | ||
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dekuschrub
United States2069 Posts
I used to play super smash brothers melee very competitively, but when brawl came out and was way too EZ mode the community really died down. | ||
Chill
Calgary25989 Posts
I do feel like we need to be careful not to fall into the trap of wanting StarCraft 1.5. Tactics will adapt to the new mechanics. For example, saying you can't harass workers with Zerglings anymore because of the new surrounding unit AI simply means the harassment mechanic will change (or early game harassment will be no longer viable), rather than the entire surround AI being needed to change. Reading the feedback on other websites has made me realize I personally took the pessimistic view a little too much and should have taken a glass half full approach. | ||
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?fn=sc2-general&t=1618012&p=1& http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5532 Some good points but alot of raw raw all we want is sc 1 in 3d....i wish people would read lol. | ||
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
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Chill
Calgary25989 Posts
On July 24 2008 05:18 teamsolid wrote: I'd still like to see a VOD of SC2's "auto-surrounding" in action before I make a judgment on it. I highly doubt there's any overriding of player control in this case, and it's more along the lines of improved unit pathing (which they will never purposely remove). It is improved unit pathing. I never experienced a unit given a manual "move" command being overridden by a reactionary "attack" command. | ||
Nyovne
Netherlands19135 Posts
On July 24 2008 06:04 Chill wrote: It is improved unit pathing. I never experienced a unit given a manual "move" command being overridden by a reactionary "attack" command. Same, it's a bug I didn't experience myself and I played at least a game or 70. The surrounding isn't something new either, it's something units do in the original as well and is just more prominent now as a result of the new and improved unit pathing and clutter programming. | ||
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aupstar
Australia912 Posts
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StormSnarlX
United States278 Posts
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