EPT
Flash is FLASH, he is a monster, if he comes to SC2 in his prime (now) he will dominate, truly i would live to see flash, Jaedong ... and yes Firebathero come to sc2, until then i think Koreans will only put up modest results in future tournaments.The Elephant in the Room - Page 94
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jax1492
United States1632 Posts
Flash is FLASH, he is a monster, if he comes to SC2 in his prime (now) he will dominate, truly i would live to see flash, Jaedong ... and yes Firebathero come to sc2, until then i think Koreans will only put up modest results in future tournaments. | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
On May 13 2011 02:25 archangel967 wrote: Did I miss something? Where did the OP say "BW is better than SC2"? When he called the whole SC2 pro scene a farce? Edit: He didn't heh, and I even agree with some of the stuff he said. But a lot of the comments here are pissing me off. Some of the people agreeing/disagreeing are not even reading it. Though I am pissed off that he calls it a farce | ||
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MiniRoman
Canada3953 Posts
On May 13 2011 01:40 ZeaL. wrote: As has been mentioned before, SC1 is more mechanically demanding but that doesn't mean that that there is no strategy. By.hero maxes at 500 APM and he's pretty mediocre. Stork is relatively slow in the low 200's but is considered one of the best players still around. Saying that mechanics is everything just shows that you have no idea what pro BW is like. At the very top all the players are pretty damn mechanically sound (except for Fantasy's bio) so what separates them is their ability to read their opponents and prepare strategies, kinda like in SC2. Ya when people talk about SC2 easy mechanics as room for their "game sense and strategy" to grow its basically just all bullshit. Think BW got no game sense or strategy cuz its just a mindless click fest? Our ugly AI units and dangerous enemies make constant map awareness and battle micro and tactial positioning sooooo sooooo key. 500apm..... wow. 300 is 5 clicks a second every second for the whole game. 500APM is??? BW. What are pro sc2 players? like 200 including some bw spamming from the past? And before anyone says: "APM =! skill!" go try to play 200+ without pure spam next game. Can't do it? No, it's an acquired skill. 200+ is barely breaking the min requirment too be a great BW player. | ||
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stratmatt
United States913 Posts
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Kich
United States339 Posts
On May 13 2011 02:28 awwnuts07 wrote: I wasn't into BW, but since I kept hearing their names, I decided to see what all the fuss was concerning Flash, Bisu, and Jeadong. After watching their matches, I can totally understand why many BW stalwarts aren't super wowed by the current reigning SC2 champs. Yes, they concede that there is a lot of skill in SC2, but the question is: Is there skill at the level of Flash, Bisu and Jeadong? I don't think so...at least not yet. I'm really hoping the BW legends make the leap to SC2 soon. I'd love to see what they come up with. Was that level of skill, the skill that exists in BW today, present a year after the game came out? That's what is kind of confusing here. It's much like how people view new MMO's compared to WoW. They're all disappointed that this brand new game isn't as fluid or well defined as a game that's had 6 years working the kinks out. It's not there because it needs time. I mean, the Starcraft community is rather intelligent amongst gaming communities, but the naivety amongst the older, presumptuously more experience crowd is mind-blowingly enormous. Your expectations for what the game is is way, way, way too high, and the idea that you can't actually keep that in check is weird. It's been out, officially, for less than a year (the beta really doesn't count, as a general statement, people need to stop including it). ... Why are you expecting people to play like Flash? | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On May 13 2011 02:37 MiniRoman wrote: What are pro sc2 players? like 200 including some bw spamming from the past? 300-400. | ||
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hmmm...
632 Posts
On May 13 2011 02:35 windsupernova wrote: When he called the whole SC2 pro scene a farce? reading comprehension is your friend. "sc2 pro scene a farce" is suggesting that the quality of players and standard of play in sc2 is less than bw. it does not mean bw as a game is superior to sc2. although obviously bw > sc2 imo. | ||
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Legatus Lanius
2135 Posts
On May 13 2011 02:38 stratmatt wrote: as somebody who never followed the bw scene and only bothered to check it out after watching lots of sc2.... i hav to say that bw is BORING. its only appealing to people who have been following it since it was the only thing around. the truth is that the graphics are terrible, the units look dinky, and the micro looks redundant and tedious. sc2 is way more entertaining to newcomers and pretty much just more fun to watch through and through. seriously, bw graphics are SO BAD. imo posts like this are much worse than the OP | ||
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hmmm...
632 Posts
On May 13 2011 02:38 stratmatt wrote: as somebody who never followed the bw scene and only bothered to check it out after watching lots of sc2.... i hav to say that bw is BORING. its only appealing to people who have been following it since it was the only thing around. the truth is that the graphics are terrible, the units look dinky, and the micro looks redundant and tedious. sc2 is way more entertaining to newcomers and pretty much just more fun to watch through and through. seriously, bw graphics are SO BAD. i understand it's your opinion but when you say sc2 is better than bw because of the graphics, HAHAHAH | ||
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ZergMaestro
United States169 Posts
The hard hitting questions. | ||
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Eufouria
United Kingdom4425 Posts
On May 13 2011 02:08 GaryBrackett wrote: Shocked and appalled at this article, belittling my brothers career as a Starcraft 2 Player. The OP seems to suggest that people are born with Genes that enable them to play a game well. Eugenics is not a concept that appeals to me as a Bulgarian Jew. Dude I hope your kidding bringing Eugenics into this, I don't believe you even read the post. The general conclusion of the article was that the work ethic of players like Flash and Jaedong is unmatched by any SC2 pro, so they will dominate when they finally switch. And the idea that you can be offended that some people might have different, or better genes than you in laughable. (That's not eugenics by the way but I assume that's what you think it is from your post). I'm half Jewish and I don't run and cry when someone tells me that I will never be able to run as fast as Usain Bolt, or that my children will never be able to beat Kenyans in the Olympic marathon final. You need to chill out and stop being so defensive about your race, I'm embarrassed for you. I've always assumed that if the top BW pros switched to SC2 early on they would dominate. SC2 is young and the all the match-ups are much more volatile than they are in BW. Although worse mechanics are not as crippling to success as they are in Broodwar if a player is able to micro more, while macroing perfectly they will have a big advantage. I imagine that as the game progresses and the standard of play and decision making improves, multitasking ability will become more important. Right now we don't generally see Terrans dropping more than 2 bases at once, but if a player could drop 4 bases at once, while holding off an pressure at their front that would obviously be a lot better and right now very few Terrans (if any) are able to multitask like that. A lot of people are saying they cant wait for the top BW pros to switch, personally I can. First of all, I like that the practice schedules are more relaxed than in SC2, it makes reaching the top more achievable, especially for foreign players where, despite e-sports becoming more credible, practicing as hard as top BW pros is still unrealistic. But practice time is like an arms race, as some players practice more, others will have to in order to keep p and eventually some players will reach a stage of hard work that most others cannot. Also I think for foreign e-sports to succeed there need to be successful foreign players. If top BW pros switch over and dominate all tournaments and we end up with a situation like we had in BW, foreign SC2 will probably fail. As foreign e-sports grows (particularly prize money), the gap will get smaller, because players will realise that if they practice harder they can beat players who are considered better than them, and more money means more players will be trying to practice harder then other people (back to the arms race analogy). | ||
RaGe
Belgium9953 Posts
On May 13 2011 01:57 fraktoasters wrote: You know people keep bringing up Queens in ZvT like constantly whenever someone talks about BW and it's mentioned like all the time in this thread. Can I just say, people might want to stop using that. I didn't play BW and when I hear these elitist BW players say like "omg it has taken 9 years for anyone to hit the Q button in a ZvT. BW is amazing!" it just makes you guys sound really really really REALLY stupid. It makes us sound stupid to non bw-players cause they don't have any idea of the multitasking effort that goes in to lategame ZvT and how hard it is to manage an extra group of spell casters and to be able to adjust your strategy enough without dying to be able to spend the resources/larva/attention on them. And that's just a huge oversimplification I applied to be able to somewhat summarize it in one sentence. What it boils down to is, they have no idea. Even a lot of the BW watchers, who never played the game somewhat competitively, have no idea. And that's why there's such a huge difference in reactions to this article. There's people who played BW and AT LEAST understand where intrigue is coming from and mostly agree. Then there's people who didn't play BW competitively and just see facts in that article. Facts that seem irrelevant when not backed up by the history and knowledge behind them. | ||
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Kznn
Brazil9072 Posts
On May 13 2011 02:38 stratmatt wrote: as somebody who never followed the bw scene and only bothered to check it out after watching lots of sc2.... i hav to say that bw is BORING. its only appealing to people who have been following it since it was the only thing around. the truth is that the graphics are terrible, the units look dinky, and the micro looks redundant and tedious. sc2 is way more entertaining to newcomers and pretty much just more fun to watch through and through. seriously, bw graphics are SO BAD. /facepalm :/ | ||
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I)etox
1240 Posts
On May 13 2011 02:40 Legatus Lanius wrote: imo posts like this are much worse than the OP Yep. But man he's got a point, I really like collosus micro as opposed to dropship + reaver micro. Watching collosus move back and forth is way more exciting. | ||
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JayDee_
548 Posts
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SlimeBagly
356 Posts
On May 13 2011 02:05 ZombiesOMG wrote: Don't you even fucking try to make me or anyone else feel like what we choose to enjoy is lame or a "farce". That's what 10 year old kids do. | ||
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Kich
United States339 Posts
On May 13 2011 02:44 JayDee_ wrote: I wouldn't go so far as to say the SC2 scene is a farce. Minor leagues is more appropriate. While you have to give credit to the current SC2 pros, the fact is they haven't put in nearly as much effort/time as the BW pros over the last 10 years. SC2 isn't even a year old yet. Yeah seriously, why haven't the SC2 pro's put in 10 years of effort yet? Like, what the fuck? You'd think by now they'd have enough time. | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
I think that's putting the cart before the horse. We haven't seen the influx of players who have caused other teams to rethink their strategy. All we have now is people playing as hard as they have to, not as hard as they think they should. A more established pro-league is when that type of commitment would begin to show. Right now, with only 1 tournament to shoot for at a time, when you're eliminated (and most of your team), they lose motivation to do anything. A consistent PL would mean they're always working on maps, bo's, etc... Basically, when SC2 players have a reason to play more, they will. Those that cant, will of course get phased out when an inevitable transition occurs. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On May 13 2011 02:40 Legatus Lanius wrote: imo posts like this are much worse than the OP To be fair, he is correct in saying that SC2 is much more enjoyable (on the whole) from a spectator's standpoint. It is much prettier, there are more observer options, and for the most part, it is more understandable for people who aren't players themselves. I watch SC2 tournaments with my friends and roommates, and we all get together to watch Funday Mondays. If I tried to sit them down to watch the grainy, dim BW games, they'd lose interest immediately. From the standpoint of making the game a spectator sport, SC2 is likely the stronger contender. And yes, making it more spectator-friendly is a good thing. More spectators means more coverage, more money for the pros, and making e-sports a legitimate past-time. I'd love to see the day when, say, MLG has a spot on ESPN or another well known and respected channel and watching Starcraft matches won't make me a social outcast. | ||
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ZergMaestro
United States169 Posts
 word up. | ||
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