On May 13 2011 02:14 jdseemoreglass wrote: That's a very long OP given how simplistic it is.
"Hey everyone, just wanted to remind you that BW pros are better! Thanks, bye."
Inherently better, no less. Smarter, faster, better dressed, more attractive and riding a horse. All attributes that carry over to BW fans, of course. SC2 fans have to settle for living in a train and wearing a live cat as clothing.
On May 13 2011 01:59 Maliris wrote: it's downright disgusting that someone has the audacity to call SC2 competition a farce. What a complete insult to the hundreds of pro's training every day to make a living off of this game, playing tournaments constantly and training as much as they can to become as great as they can. BW might be more competitive... I'll concede that right now, BW is more competitive, due to the years of training, refinement and discipline that have gone into the game. But that doesn't negate the competition that SC2 has.
Well, "farce" might be a bit strong, but I agree with Intrigue's choice here.
You see, Sc2 has been out for more than 1 year now if you count the Beta. As an esports fan, I'm starting to get a bit impatient and frustrated. I've watched tons of tournaments from King of the Beta to TSL3, I've watched every GSL games, every dreamhack, every MLG, etc. I even try watch some smaller tournaments like go4sc2, craftcup you name it. And honestly, I'm like "man what the fuck am I watching? How come these players win tournaments despite having average RTS skills?" No offense to top players but sometimes I feel that the competition is not very high...
I don't blame the game, and that's where I somehow agree with Intrigue. Current top sc2 players are not setting the bar very high.
love the no offense usage. "guys you're fucking terrible.... no offense tho"
That statement seems objective. Thus it seems appropriate to me.
i dunno how u think it wont offend people by calling them bad at something they do for a living
edit: it can be the truth, they might really suck, but that'll still offend them.
I agree mostly with what the OP says. I think most of it is quite obvious to the BW players, although the vast majority who plays SC2 may not know about the competition in BW.
Don't you see it? I am just a nobody, but I see it, I played starcraft1 back when I was a teenager. Its the change in graphics that is the root cause of all the sc2 vs sc1 commotion. Others will agree, satisfaction occurs when you feel the command of your units bashing the opponents base. A feeling of relief arises, and you love your zerglings(insert units here) for being so expressive with their 2D graphics. I have now taken this too far, as all others have. gg re
post script: I agree with everyone who says that it is wrong to compare the sc2 competition to the BWs competition. for common sense reasons. 13 year old game vs 1 year old remake, not even a remake, a new starcraft game is out!
On May 13 2011 02:09 Leafs wrote: Kind of a silly article - if the telecom companies paid out 200k a year for sc2, they would switch. Follow the money, its pretty simple.
That's the point. Athletes go to the sports that pay them the best. That's why the NFL in North America gets the cream of the crop of physically big athletes and a sport like MMA has borderline pathetic "athletes" in the heavyweight class
Same for progaming. Top players play BW because there's money and there's interest. Similarly SC2 doesn't have the money so it doesn't have the talent.
It is a simple concept, but there's also this behemoth vitriolic thread so clearly it needs to be pointed out
There will always be has beens ranting about the good old days. Well the future is here adapt or get deaded...
I actually thought sc2 was to much like sc and that they should have gone with the supreme commander gui. Now I'm hooked anyway, but they should spend less time on the mods and just fix the problems in the actual game and iron out the balance adjustments instead.
On May 13 2011 01:27 Maliris wrote: This article is terribly ignorant. Just throwing up a bunch of stats with no context whatsoever. What about NaDa and Julyzerg? Why are they not dominating everyone and everything effortlessly? Modern BW pro's rely on their exceptional macro and mechanics which are diluted in SC2, they would probably be an MVP/Nestea level player, but they won't just destroy everyone.
On May 13 2011 01:27 Maliris wrote: This article is terribly ignorant. Just throwing up a bunch of stats with no context whatsoever. What about NaDa and Julyzerg? Why are they not dominating everyone and everything effortlessly? Modern BW pro's rely on their exceptional macro and mechanics which are diluted in SC2, they would probably be an MVP/Nestea level player, but they won't just destroy everyone.
Sad that a BW elitist felt like writing something like this on TL... i agree with Doa, Artosis, and the hundreds of other people that think this is a load of shit
It's sad that a SC2 elitist would come and try to throw BW under the bus after only joining the site last month.
And what? Its called lurking. You think everyone signs up to TL the moment they start following StarCraft? truly laughable. Also, what you said doesn't even make sense. I didn't insult BW, nor did I show any elitism. I've followed the scene since 2006 I know enough about BW and SC2. What about you?
I like how you only take one line of my entire post , delete everything else and only argue against that. Funny part is, that sentence was meant as ironic satire against your strawman argument against Intrigue (Calling him a BW elitist.). If you wish to continue the real debate in question, then respond with something against my arguement about JulyZerg and Nada and leave the personal attacks out of it. If "Also, what you said doesn't even make sense." is your response then lol, guess we're done here.
Ah I'm sure it was irony my friend!
NaDa and Julyzerg were exceptional players, the reason they became "generic A team pro's" was because their mechanics and macro had fell behind, due to the extreme demands of BW. Which is exactly what I said. How are you having difficulty comprehending that? Guess we're done here though, as you said. Thanks for conceding.
Looks like you answered your own question. "Which is exactly what I said" LOL, sounds more like exactly what I said.
On May 13 2011 01:35 RushWifDietCoke wrote: What about NaDa and Julyzerg? You know when their prime was? estimating, roughly 2003, although they've both remained somewhat consistent over the years they are by no means the top BW pros. They are both awesome, JulyZerg is in my top 3 favorite players but I didn't expect them to go and dominate SC2 like some of these other pros of today would.
Haha what? How about you read the rest of my post? it was a RHETORICAL question, I expanded upon it Whats your point buddy? Please stop embarassing yourself Seems like you just don't even understand what I was saying, and are now frothing at the mouth desperately trying to prove me wrong (without even understanding what I am saying). Impressive. I'm done with you :p.
On May 13 2011 01:52 stratmatt wrote: damn are you guys serious? you mean a game that has been played through and through for like a decade is played at a higher level than one thats been out only a year? why didnt i think of that? thats it, im done wit sc2. lol
Chess has been around for hundreds of years, and is played at a level that Starcraft could never even hope to reach. You could practice and study for 16 hours a day and you would still be crushed by grandmasters because they have so much innate talent and intelligence you could never overcome it. Time to quit broodwar now.
Go has been around for thousands of years, and even the best super computers can't take a game from top players, time to quit chess.
On May 13 2011 01:52 stratmatt wrote: damn are you guys serious? you mean a game that has been played through and through for like a decade is played at a higher level than one thats been out only a year? why didnt i think of that? thats it, im done wit sc2. lol
Chess has been around for hundreds of years, and is played at a level that Starcraft could never even hope to reach. You could practice and study for 16 hours a day and you would still be crushed by grandmasters because they have so much innate talent and intelligence you could never overcome it. Time to quit broodwar now.
On May 13 2011 02:14 jdseemoreglass wrote: That's a very long OP given how simplistic it is.
"Hey everyone, just wanted to remind you that BW pros are better! Thanks, bye."
I think it's not just that.
It's also a valid answer to all the people which hype the SC2 scene to a level it simply isn't at the moment, like certain commentators.
So the OP is a not-so-gentle reminder that BW is better? Did anyone ask for it? Did anyone refute it? Let the sc2 fans have a good time, why do BW fanatics have to stir a controversy by making a post such as this, you don't see sc2 fans go to the BW section and call the game ugly and the players robots, do you?
On May 13 2011 02:05 ZombiesOMG wrote: So... An entire article just to splatter your Flash fanboy juice all over the front page of TL and Starcraft fans? I've kept quiet on the BW vs SC2 nonsense for awhile, because the whole thing is a stupid debate that makes as much sense to me as various console fanboy flame wars. It's an ignorant debate that merely serves to divide our beloved e-sports(specifically Starcraft) community.
I'll preface by saying not all of this is directed at the OP, but to BW and SC2 elitists alike.
I still don't see the point OP was trying to make aside from "LOLOL SC2 Pros suck, flash + other bw playerz so gooood!" To that I ask: Who cares? The whole article is silly and irrelevant (aka garbage). I can't believe this guy would get the green light on an article that's only going to continue and heighten the BW vs SC2 flame-fest. Something that, as far as I'm aware, is frowned upon among general forum users. If anyone else wrote this, it would be locked almost immediately.
All this article said to me is "I'm really jealous that there are some new faces getting love and fan attention when they should be on their knees blowing the same old players. The ones with REAL skill! You know, the ones I like. It's not fair! Your pros suck compared to mine!"
Don't get me wrong, I'd never hate on BW because I grew up on it from the day SCvanilla was released like many of the other people here. I just never had the time to devote to, or interest in, melee games that others did. Frankly, as a kid, I was way more into UMS maps as were my friends in middle school. But I am happy that the BW scene is still going and has such amazing players. Now I'm playing SC2 and I love it just like I loved BW...though now I pretty much only play 1v1, 2v2 etc. Not so much on customs lol.
To be perfectly honest, I guess I'm just not a nostalgia whore like the OP. I mean, sure, it's great that there are still hardcore fans and players of a game from 1998, and to each their own.
So I'm sorry there's a new kid in the house to split attention with. I'm sorry that it can feel at times that BW has fallen behind in Western popularity (it's a bit sad to me too!) I am NOT sorry, however, that the community, the forum, and Starcraft heroes are all seeing new faces along with a huge influx of new fans/players. It's really a shame how jealous old school BW fans can be of these things. Even new school BW kids do this too, which in my eyes, is merely bandwagonist. I hate having it shoved in my face that one game is better than the other because of short man's complex and the warm fuzzy feelings you get when you think about that old game. It's not better, and neither is SC2.
I hate feeling like I can't access the BW part of the forum just because I am now primarily playing SC2. To be honest I'm certain the majority of people on both sides are level headed and not weird about which game is better... but there are elitists on both sides and that, in part, keeps me from ever accessing the BW forum sections. I'm sure it can be the same feeling for old-hat BW guys that come to the SC2 side and are subject to that news all over the website.
It's all a matter of opinion. Watch or don't watch, enjoy the new infant scene or don't. Dgaf. As with religious debates, it's very sad to see anyone trying to convince others that what they choose to follow is bad or wrong in some way(and that their particular views are the one true way).
TLDR: Meh. Come write an article when the mecha-streisand pros switch to SC2, (and I'll be very, very excited to see what they're capable of when they do switch) but until then: OP, get over yourself and your elitism. I love(d) Broodwar as much as I love SC2. Don't you even fucking try to make me or anyone else feel like what we choose to enjoy is lame or a "farce". That's what 10 year old kids do.
I couldn't agree more, I too try to stay clear from this nonesense (and balance threads) but yeah the whole "My game could beat up your game" thing is retarded. And its not like SC2 burned down all BW copies\shut down all servers when it came out.
But one thing I do agree with the OP is that the current BW pros are more likely to dominate because some of the skills overlap, but i don't think it will be like this forever. I do think that in 2-5 years the skill level in SC2 will be larger and it won't be easy for former BW players just to switch over.
And yeah the OP calling the whole competitive SC2 scene a farce is really just ignorant and reeks of fanboyism.
On May 13 2011 02:14 jdseemoreglass wrote: That's a very long OP given how simplistic it is.
"Hey everyone, just wanted to remind you that BW pros are better! Thanks, bye."
I think it's not just that.
It's also a valid answer to all the people which hype the SC2 scene to a level it simply isn't at the moment, like certain commentators.
i totally agree. it's really bad that commentators try to make games interesting and to entertain the viewers. who wants that? the commentators should tell us how much everyone of the players suck and that it's a total waste of time to even watch them.
On May 13 2011 02:08 GaryBrackett wrote: Shocked and appalled at this article, belittling my brothers career as a Starcraft 2 Player. The OP seems to suggest that people are born with Genes that enable them to play a game well. Eugenics is not a concept that appeals to me as a Bulgarian Jew.
I have no idea how in the world you managed to bring up eugenics in relation to this article. He's just saying players that are good at BW would also be good at SC2. He also says that he feels like there will be an influx of ex-BW players that are going to be coming to SC2 sooner or later and the current top tier of SC2 pros will have to improve themselves to be able to deal with them.
On May 13 2011 01:52 stratmatt wrote: damn are you guys serious? you mean a game that has been played through and through for like a decade is played at a higher level than one thats been out only a year? why didnt i think of that? thats it, im done wit sc2. lol
Chess has been around for hundreds of years, and is played at a level that Starcraft could never even hope to reach. You could practice and study for 16 hours a day and you would still be crushed by grandmasters because they have so much innate talent and intelligence you could never overcome it. Time to quit broodwar now.
Go has been around for thousands of years, and even the best super computers can't take a game from top players, time to quit chess.
Foreigners do not understand Chess. Only Mondragon, Draco, and I, Testie, truly know it.
On May 13 2011 02:05 Ribbon wrote: You know who I'd love to hear weigh in on this? Team Liquid. The actual team. I wonder how Jinro and Huk and Tyler would react to a post on the front page of their team website calling their entire career a farce.
EPT
I know enough about BW and SC2. What about you?
