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On October 22 2012 06:28 wcr.4fun wrote:
they can't dominate as fast and as convincingly because they can't use their skills to the fullest. There's nothing to micro for jaedong. He can't get an edge through micro because there is no micro.
Do you even watch SC2? Does anyone of the countelss promotes of this abusrdly nonsensical statement ever watch SC2?
Yes, in many situations, we see that there is not so much micro involved. But it is not because there is nothing to micro, but because it is so absurdly difficult to pull off! Sure, on surface, BW is much more difficult than SC2. There is a gazillion things you obviously need to micro, otherwise you are completely doomed. In SC2, on the other hand, many armies fight "reasonably" without much micro. But that doesn't mean that they wouldn't do much better with micro, but it is very different kind of micro than BW. It's less about cute tricks, more about blunt positioning and individual targetfire.
The main difference that people tend to completely overlook is that SC2 is in some aspects BW on fastestx4. Some battles (mainly the high-DPS-packed-ball type ones) are insanely fast. You need to do something very, very fast to matter and you absolutely need not to screw things up so that a chunk of your army fails to fire in the critical moment, or you are dead. The advantage snowballs too quickly.
If you want evidence just go watch GSL. That is the absolute top level of skill in SC2, nothing in the West comes even close to it. Yet, you will still see immortals shooting lings, groups of zealots charging on single marines, siege tanks shooting immortals, phenoxis shooting overlords wehn a queen is lifted, groups of marines not pre-spread versus fungals and siege lines and much, much more examples. Why? Because it is frigging hard to pull it all right!
I don't know about the others, but every time I see these obvious blunders being done be even the very best, I wish for players to finally reach a level of perfection, because briliant play is so much more interesting to watch than "oh yes, he lost because he messed that up". But it still did not happen and not even the KeSPA players are there. But there is definitely a lot of space to show off mechanical skill - if you are really up to the task.
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Anyone watching MLG? (-:
</troll>
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LOL. So now that the several months have gone by since they entered the scene and the "elephants" are only holding even (at best) - how does the writer of this article feel?  There are only like 10 players out of hundreds of Kespa players who can even hold even - the rest are lost. Meanwhile federation pros like Life and Leenock just keep on winning.
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Compare the skill of KESPA pros now to the first year of SC2. Compare GSL 1 to the first KESPA tournament at MLG.
Yeah, I would imagine that he feels just fine.
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On November 06 2012 08:33 M.R. McThundercrotch wrote:
Compare the skill of KESPA pros now to the first year of SC2. Compare GSL 1 to the first KESPA tournament at MLG.
Yeah, I would imagine that he feels just fine.
But that's not what the article predict.
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On November 06 2012 08:33 M.R. McThundercrotch wrote:
Compare the skill of KESPA pros now to the first year of SC2. Compare GSL 1 to the first KESPA tournament at MLG.
Yeah, I would imagine that he feels just fine.
How is that even a comparison? It's not like that have to discover everything from the scratch, they have two years worth of material to learn from! Considering that, their learning curve is actually slower then expected (not to mention an order of magnitude slower than predicted by the article, but that is not the point any more, i would guess).
Rain is good. If you watch him play PvP, you can't help but see that he know something the other player does not know. But just look at Flash, he did so many obvious mistakes vs Life. Yes, he did a lot of amazing moves as well, but there were wtill large holes in his play.
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Hahaha ^^ The past few pages of this thread have been top notch comedy, thanks guys!
Just remember that Rain was not allowed to play SC2 until AFTER the last PL finals. That they split practice time between BW and SC2 until recently. Holes in their play? No shit, SC2 pros have been playing for years.
I think it's safe to say that the elephant, even if not at the level that was predicted by the op (300 is a number you people keep trying to present as if it's some sort of evidence of total falsehood, lol get real), has arrived and is here to stay.
Isn't Life supposed to be top 3 zergs at the moment? Isn't zerg constantly whined about in terms of balance right now? Hahaha xDD When BW pros were retiring, switching to SC2, etc. all the more insensitive SC2 fans on this site were having a fucking ball, often in the BW section. I felt much rage back then. People were ignorantly throwing around the word 'bonjwa' like candy. They were drunk off of eSports. There are 292 pages in this thread, most of them littered with the type of posts you've seen in the past few pages. Fuck, I even got banned in this very thread some time before that... Well, now I witness the reward I gain for staying with BW/TL and supporting BW players even in SC2. That reward is seeing that there is no longer just an elephant (tbh I only know about Rain winning OSL), but now a flock of ostriches with their heads in the sand. I fucking LOVE it. I taste the sweetness in my mouth, while seeing the held-back tears. The obstinate ignorance has turned into outright denial.
Pretty much the only SC2 games I watched in a long time were the OSL finals. I watched with my friend and even to my inexperienced eye I could see how much Rain had messed up in certain situations (slowest warp prism reaction time evar). They are only going to get better. So much better. I can't wait. I might even watch more SC2 because of this, for however long it will last. I hypothesize that once Flash and the rest of the crew become dominant, most of the posters in this thread will have ragequit or boredquit.
This has been a very nonsensical rant, but I just needed to let it out somehow. I haven't talked SC2 vs. BW on TL in a long time, unless it was to point out that a thread devolved into hatemongering too fast or something civil of that nature. It just feels good to release my inner demons, to express my inner joy. Because I honestly would love nothing more than a fucking KeSPA empire, a strangling iron fist at the throat of SC2.
Please, make my dreams come true - my undying love for BW and PL/OSL/MSL has earned me this much.
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On November 07 2012 19:49 Jealous wrote:
Hahaha ^^ The past few pages of this thread have been top notch comedy, thanks guys!
Just remember that Rain was not allowed to play SC2 until AFTER the last PL finals. That they split practice time between BW and SC2 until recently. Holes in their play? No shit, SC2 pros have been playing for years.
I think it's safe to say that the elephant, even if not at the level that was predicted by the op (300 is a number you people keep trying to present as if it's some sort of evidence of total falsehood, lol get real), has arrived and is here to stay.
Isn't Life supposed to be top 3 zergs at the moment? Isn't zerg constantly whined about in terms of balance right now? Hahaha xDD When BW pros were retiring, switching to SC2, etc. all the more insensitive SC2 fans on this site were having a fucking ball, often in the BW section. I felt much rage back then. People were ignorantly throwing around the word 'bonjwa' like candy. They were drunk off of eSports. There are 292 pages in this thread, most of them littered with the type of posts you've seen in the past few pages. Fuck, I even got banned in this very thread some time before that... Well, now I witness the reward I gain for staying with BW/TL and supporting BW players even in SC2. That reward is seeing that there is no longer just an elephant (tbh I only know about Rain winning OSL), but now a flock of ostriches with their heads in the sand. I fucking LOVE it. I taste the sweetness in my mouth, while seeing the held-back tears. The obstinate ignorance has turned into outright denial.
Pretty much the only SC2 games I watched in a long time were the OSL finals. I watched with my friend and even to my inexperienced eye I could see how much Rain had messed up in certain situations (slowest warp prism reaction time evar). They are only going to get better. So much better. I can't wait. I might even watch more SC2 because of this, for however long it will last. I hypothesize that once Flash and the rest of the crew become dominant, most of the posters in this thread will have ragequit or boredquit.
This has been a very nonsensical rant, but I just needed to let it out somehow. I haven't talked SC2 vs. BW on TL in a long time, unless it was to point out that a thread devolved into hatemongering too fast or something civil of that nature. It just feels good to release my inner demons, to express my inner joy. Because I honestly would love nothing more than a fucking KeSPA empire, a strangling iron fist at the throat of SC2.
Please, make my dreams come true - my undying love for BW and PL/OSL/MSL has earned me this much.
Dafuq is this post?? Are you even aware of the results? KeSPA is getting wrecked in the current GSL season, and apart from Rain and Flash there isn't anyone that looks impressive or remarkable in any sense.
Maybe I'm just biting the bait here? What a troll post it's kinda delusional
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I think intrigue deserves all the flack he gets for this article.
To somehow imply that talent>hard work is for me, as a nerd who doesnt believe in unquantifiable, is the worst crime the author could commit.
Top level talent is top level talent, no matter if they are top 0.000001 or top 0.00001 percent. Once you got through courage and have the dedication to hard work enough to go pro, it doesnt matter if youre 11-21, or 200-100. You keep bashing that wall you will find something you will be the best at.
Even worse are the BW fanboys that somehow imply that this article held true. No, the timeframe for that is past. Or do you think SC2 folks somehow thought Flash was a newbie and wouldn't do good in SC2? No. It was a contest between a radical and extreme(and quiet frankly hateful) opinion, and an opinion that accepted everyone for their actual accomplishments.
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On November 10 2012 06:10 1Dhalism wrote:
I think intrigue deserves all the flack he gets for this article.
To somehow imply that talent>hard work is for me, as a nerd who doesnt believe in unquantifiable, is the worst crime the author could commit.
Top level talent is top level talent, no matter if they are top 0.000001 or top 0.00001 percent. Once you got through courage and have the dedication to hard work enough to go pro, it doesnt matter if youre 11-21, or 200-100. You keep bashing that wall you will find something you will be the best at.
Even worse are the BW fanboys that somehow imply that this article held true. No, the timeframe for that is past. Or do you think SC2 folks somehow thought Flash was a newbie and wouldn't do good in SC2? No. It was a contest between a radical and extreme(and quiet frankly hateful) opinion, and an opinion that accepted everyone for their actual accomplishments.
To add to this:
If talent > hard work every time, then what does that say to the generations of younger gamers who hope to be the next pro? That they should just totally give up, because they're not a Kespa player?
Also - didn't Flash practice longer and harder than anyone else on his team? Wasn't there a story where it was his teammates who actually had to make him stop practicing, because he was bleeding all over the keys? Would that not suggest that Flash is a combination of talent AND hard work?
Look at Stephano, the guy who's outstanding, and claims that he hardly practices. Would this not lead us to believe that he's the perfect example of talent? If that's true, then why restrict this whole "elephant" to only Kespa players?
As far as I'm concerned, the predictions from Elephant that it'd be a complete clean sweep of every single trophy from every single tourney from Kespa - it just didn't happen. I believe he's already built-in some excuse for this "oh they need more time, but once they do, it'll be a walk over" well how long, then?
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The predictions from Elephant have already been proven to be complete BS. Anyone who still thinks otherwise is like a teenage girl still obsessed with her first love. Get over it, SC2 wasn't this easy piece of cake scene that could be dominated in "3 months at most", as Elephant said.
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I agree with most of the previous posters saying that the OP has pretty much been disproved at this point. I'm of the opinion that this thread should be closed soon so that the community can move on and focus on other things, like HotS.
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if we get a formal apology from intrigue, then we can set this to rest. otherwise, put your flame suit on
on topic, there's simply a bigger player base in sc2 than bw. more players = more money. more money = more motivation to play. flash and jaedong werent even the best players at the time of switching
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The Elephant thing only made sense in May 2011. It's been 18 months. You can't keep beating Intrigue around the head for an opinion and prediction that he wrote 18 months ago, that was prophesying what would happen if people switched then, not now. I always thought his post was an exaggeration. For a start, 300 was a bit steep. But we'll never know, because it never happened. Towards the end of bw there were about 50 pros (a-teamers), and less than 100 including the b-teamers. I am still confident that if those 50 stick with sc2 they will take over about 75% of Code S. If I was pressed for a time-frame I'd say 6 months.
My prediction back at the start of 2012 was 6 months. Game keeps getting developed though, sc2 players keep getting better.
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i think its safe to assume players will get better. if we assume they stay stagnant, that is quite ignorant and this shouldnt even be frontpaged
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Intrigue should write an article on how Blizzard will need until Prophecy of the Void to balance the game.
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The elephant just sat down pretty hard on zenio, thorzain and JYP
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Glad someone linked this in the most recent LR thread. I'd forgotten quite how horribly offensive, hyberbolic and elitist it was.
Pretty funny glancing through the last ten pages (covering about the past ten months) to see the dramatic change in attitude from BW elitists. From "hell yeah" to "oh crap..." and starting to grasp at straws and make all sorts of excuses.
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On December 11 2012 01:37 Lightspeaker wrote:
Glad someone linked this in the most recent LR thread. I'd forgotten quite how horribly offensive, hyberbolic and elitist it was.
Pretty funny glancing through the last ten pages (covering about the past ten months) to see the dramatic change in attitude from BW elitists. From "hell yeah" to "oh crap..." and starting to grasp at straws and make all sorts of excuses.
What do you mean? Leaps players are owning shot lol.
Edit: leaps is Kespa. Silly phone
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Poor JD - if this article didn't exist, fanboys wouldn't have put so much hopes on him
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EPT
