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On May 13 2011 22:55 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 22:53 aimaimaim wrote:
Idk about what the measure of success over your land of illusion but here in the country of reality, it's mostly money that factors as being a success in a certain field.
Who has accumulated the highest money from SC2 is the most successful. Not sponsorships, not being in teams, not how high he is on your illusion of the best but how much money he has made by playing SC2 competitively. really,I though that that in the land of illusion people that that he who made the most money is the best because all I hear is how "MC is the best because he made over 150K in 4 months"
Well if thats the truth then he can be considered as the one of, if not, the most successful competitor there is for SC2.
I'm not trying that I have my biased opinions towards certain players. It's just that it seems like the definition of success in SC2 isn't yet established so I think it's acceptable to measure success with the increase of the size of their wallets while playing the game.
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On May 13 2011 23:00 goiflin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 22:54 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 22:51 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 22:40 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 22:35 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 22:27 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 21:00 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 20:37 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:
This is really insulting to all the victors of tournaments for SC2...
Its not like they have a game changing patch every month or so...
since the different game theory has already been stated, id like to throw it out there that i had a 90% win at golems 9.0
but only 30% on sc2 Do you honestly believe that your win percentage in Golem says anything about the (dis)similarities between BW and SC2? How is it even possible to follow GSL and not notice that subpar ex-BW pros are dominating? using different game logic bw and sc2 are different games golem 9.0 is a different game within a different game because i win in golems doesnt mean i will win in sc2 because MC loses 90% of his games in brood war doesnt mean he loses 90% in sc2 so i dont understand how he can call this competition a "FARCE" thats like saying special olympics is a farce because usain bolt is not competing It blows my mind that you actually believe that comparing some UMS and SC2 is like comparing BW and SC2. No, the fact that MC was a B-teamer means that he is likely to do well in SC2. This is what we have seen - ex-BW players are doing well in SC2 which means that the “different game”-argument is invalid. Ok lets see Minigun didnt even play RTS, now he is successful broodwar player? nope oh snap who knew you could be successful without playing its TWELVE YEAR predecessor? Oh look Warcraft 3, same company, same game right? NO last time i checked, there was no unit in brood war that had speed of speed lings, cloaking ability of a DT, and hit like a seige tank... Oh yea blade master very good yes? OH BUT look! it says 2 at the end of starcraft, must be close to the same!?~? sc2 is enhanced rts that requires different skills than sc1; the logic does not apply because when i play TVP, i go marine firebat medic with science vessals and wraiths Where in my post do I claim that people not coming from the BW scene cannot be successful? All Im saying is that one has to be pretty ignorant to not see how BW players benefits from their experience with RTS. Five out of five GSLs are won by former BW players. Why do you think that is? Also, what different skills are there in SC2 that are not present in BW? ok ill ask you a simple question. Q:Why did you buy sc2? answer is probably: A: Because i played sc with that reasoning, its obvious why 5/5 are brood war players a halo player doesnt wake up, drive to the local game stop (or whatever they have in korea) at 12:01, get his copy (not collections, defy the man) and try to become a competetive gamer. So, why hasn't someone like cruncher won a GSL? How about minigun? There are plenty of players in SC2 who never touched BW, who are doing good, right? Why aren't they winning championships consistently? Why are ex-bw players winning all the GSL's?
What about TSL :D?
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United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
On May 13 2011 23:01 vitruvia wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 22:52 AndyJay wrote:
Except many people understand the OP and flat out disagree with him. I don't for a second believe the top sports people can swap sports and their dedication and natural talent will take them to the top. Success is a factor of many things, with a large one being pure luck The secondary question of course is how similar BW and SC2 are. Personally I think they are different enough. I hope in the future there will be something called basketball 2 or hockey expansion : "insert title that makes fun about people in the north =(" and btw does anyone know if there are any notable players that switched from one sports scene to another, like physical sports?
Hi vitruvia,
I think the best sporting analogy I can think of is Karmichael Hunt (Rugby Union --> League --> AFL)
Then there is Sonny Bill Williams (Rugby League, Rugby Union, Boxer).
I think switching sports and still playing at the highest level is possible with sports that are similar - I.e. Australia Football League (AFL) <--> Gaelic footbal (Ireland).
or Rugby Leageu <----> Rugby Union.
To ask Michael Jordan to play soccer would be a total disaster.
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On May 13 2011 23:02 vitruvia wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 23:00 goiflin wrote:On May 13 2011 22:54 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 22:51 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 22:40 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 22:35 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 22:27 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 21:00 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 20:37 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:
This is really insulting to all the victors of tournaments for SC2...
Its not like they have a game changing patch every month or so...
since the different game theory has already been stated, id like to throw it out there that i had a 90% win at golems 9.0
but only 30% on sc2 Do you honestly believe that your win percentage in Golem says anything about the (dis)similarities between BW and SC2? How is it even possible to follow GSL and not notice that subpar ex-BW pros are dominating? using different game logic bw and sc2 are different games golem 9.0 is a different game within a different game because i win in golems doesnt mean i will win in sc2 because MC loses 90% of his games in brood war doesnt mean he loses 90% in sc2 so i dont understand how he can call this competition a "FARCE" thats like saying special olympics is a farce because usain bolt is not competing It blows my mind that you actually believe that comparing some UMS and SC2 is like comparing BW and SC2. No, the fact that MC was a B-teamer means that he is likely to do well in SC2. This is what we have seen - ex-BW players are doing well in SC2 which means that the “different game”-argument is invalid. Ok lets see Minigun didnt even play RTS, now he is successful broodwar player? nope oh snap who knew you could be successful without playing its TWELVE YEAR predecessor? Oh look Warcraft 3, same company, same game right? NO last time i checked, there was no unit in brood war that had speed of speed lings, cloaking ability of a DT, and hit like a seige tank... Oh yea blade master very good yes? OH BUT look! it says 2 at the end of starcraft, must be close to the same!?~? sc2 is enhanced rts that requires different skills than sc1; the logic does not apply because when i play TVP, i go marine firebat medic with science vessals and wraiths Where in my post do I claim that people not coming from the BW scene cannot be successful? All Im saying is that one has to be pretty ignorant to not see how BW players benefits from their experience with RTS. Five out of five GSLs are won by former BW players. Why do you think that is? Also, what different skills are there in SC2 that are not present in BW? ok ill ask you a simple question. Q:Why did you buy sc2? answer is probably: A: Because i played sc with that reasoning, its obvious why 5/5 are brood war players a halo player doesnt wake up, drive to the local game stop (or whatever they have in korea) at 12:01, get his copy (not collections, defy the man) and try to become a competetive gamer. So, why hasn't someone like cruncher won a GSL? How about minigun? There are plenty of players in SC2 who never touched BW, who are doing good, right? Why aren't they winning championships consistently? Why are ex-bw players winning all the GSL's? What about TSL :D?
It's an example of how we don't know the top tier players yet. When I said I don't think we've reached our pinnacle yet, I didn't mean that people like flash are the only ones who will ever be top-tier in SC2. I mean that, we may eventually find our own jaedong. Maybe thorizain will be that person, I don't know. Maybe somebody that we haven't heard from yet. I'm not sure. But I know that, when you look at the dedication involved in the BW scene, and you look at the sc2 scene, you know we aren't even halfway there yet, and that excites me.
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United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
On May 13 2011 23:02 vitruvia wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 23:00 goiflin wrote:On May 13 2011 22:54 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 22:51 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 22:40 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 22:35 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 22:27 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 21:00 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 20:37 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:
This is really insulting to all the victors of tournaments for SC2...
Its not like they have a game changing patch every month or so...
since the different game theory has already been stated, id like to throw it out there that i had a 90% win at golems 9.0
but only 30% on sc2 Do you honestly believe that your win percentage in Golem says anything about the (dis)similarities between BW and SC2? How is it even possible to follow GSL and not notice that subpar ex-BW pros are dominating? using different game logic bw and sc2 are different games golem 9.0 is a different game within a different game because i win in golems doesnt mean i will win in sc2 because MC loses 90% of his games in brood war doesnt mean he loses 90% in sc2 so i dont understand how he can call this competition a "FARCE" thats like saying special olympics is a farce because usain bolt is not competing It blows my mind that you actually believe that comparing some UMS and SC2 is like comparing BW and SC2. No, the fact that MC was a B-teamer means that he is likely to do well in SC2. This is what we have seen - ex-BW players are doing well in SC2 which means that the “different game”-argument is invalid. Ok lets see Minigun didnt even play RTS, now he is successful broodwar player? nope oh snap who knew you could be successful without playing its TWELVE YEAR predecessor? Oh look Warcraft 3, same company, same game right? NO last time i checked, there was no unit in brood war that had speed of speed lings, cloaking ability of a DT, and hit like a seige tank... Oh yea blade master very good yes? OH BUT look! it says 2 at the end of starcraft, must be close to the same!?~? sc2 is enhanced rts that requires different skills than sc1; the logic does not apply because when i play TVP, i go marine firebat medic with science vessals and wraiths Where in my post do I claim that people not coming from the BW scene cannot be successful? All Im saying is that one has to be pretty ignorant to not see how BW players benefits from their experience with RTS. Five out of five GSLs are won by former BW players. Why do you think that is? Also, what different skills are there in SC2 that are not present in BW? ok ill ask you a simple question. Q:Why did you buy sc2? answer is probably: A: Because i played sc with that reasoning, its obvious why 5/5 are brood war players a halo player doesnt wake up, drive to the local game stop (or whatever they have in korea) at 12:01, get his copy (not collections, defy the man) and try to become a competetive gamer. So, why hasn't someone like cruncher won a GSL? How about minigun? There are plenty of players in SC2 who never touched BW, who are doing good, right? Why aren't they winning championships consistently? Why are ex-bw players winning all the GSL's? What about TSL :D?
Well said, the TSL has revealed foreigners can totally destroy Koreans if the Koreans don't prepare for their opponents. I guess we have to realise that even in the earliest days of BW, foreigners like Legionnaire etc were defeating Koreans. I mean,  Sen and Mondragon at their peaks in BroodWar could surely take a few games off the A-teamers in Brood war.
But I guess the point of OP is that the Koreans playing SCII are like bounty hunters, wannabe-BW pros, people rushing off to the Gold rush! They see an opportunity to earn easier money (since BW has become a death-pit of competition). I feel the Koreans who switched made a good decision and I hope they continue to improve. But at the same time I feel Foreigners now have a chance to keep up in skill level hand-in-hand with the Koreans.
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On May 13 2011 22:52 AndyJay wrote:
Except many people understand the OP and flat out disagree with him. I don't for a second believe the top sports people can swap sports and their dedication and natural talent will take them to the top. Success is a factor of many things, with a large one being pure luck The secondary question of course is how similar BW and SC2 are. Personally I think they are different enough.
heres another perspective. let's consider mc/mvp amongst the top sc2 players atm and flash/bisu amongst the top bw players atm and then compare them. flash was better than mvp in every single possible way in bw. name a skill in broodwar and flash would be better at it than mvp.
if we assume this, and our position is that flash wont necessarily walk into sc2 with adequate practise and be BETTER than mvp, then there must be something that mvp can do better than flash in sc2. what could that be? specific timings, knowledge of units and how they can correlate/work together in a group etc etc
that's what i think it comes down to, though. either sc2 has a unique skill demand that mvp is better than flash at, or flash would more than likely be a better sc2 player than mvp with adequate practise. me personally? flash has an rts gift - hes a genius, a master of all the important things that a brood war player needs to excel. i cant see mvp having an advantage over flash in anyway except the benefit of extra practise, so my own personal conclusion is that i think flash would be a better player than mvp at sc2. i just cant see anything that drastically different in sc2 that mvp's rts talents would be better suited to than flash's, partly because his talents dont rival flash's.
thats just how i feel about it, not claiming im correct or anything like that
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On May 13 2011 23:09 Legatus Lanius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 22:52 AndyJay wrote:
Except many people understand the OP and flat out disagree with him. I don't for a second believe the top sports people can swap sports and their dedication and natural talent will take them to the top. Success is a factor of many things, with a large one being pure luck The secondary question of course is how similar BW and SC2 are. Personally I think they are different enough. heres another perspective. let's consider mc/mvp amongst the top sc2 players atm and flash/bisu amongst the top bw players atm and then compare them. flash was better than mvp in every single possible way in bw. name a skill in broodwar and flash would be better at it than mvp. if we assume this, and our position is that flash wont necessarily walk into sc2 with adequate practise and be BETTER than mvp, then there must be something that mvp can do better than flash in sc2. what could that be? specific timings, knowledge of units and how they can correlate/work together in a group etc etc that's what i think it comes down to, though. either sc2 has a unique skill demand that mvp is better than flash at, or flash would more than likely be a better sc2 player than mvp with adequate practise. me personally? flash has an rts gift - hes a genius, a master of all the important things that a brood war player needs to excel. i cant see mvp having an advantage over flash in anyway except the benefit of extra practise, so my own personal conclusion is that i think flash would be a better player than mvp at sc2. i just cant see anything that drastically different in sc2 that mvp's rts talents would be better suited to than flash's, partly because his talents dont rival flash's. thats just how i feel about it, not claiming im correct or anything like that
It might very well be so, but then again Flash might never switch to SC2, and calling every SC2 player bad because they were bad at BW isn't really nice or constructive. Especially choosing the time of a TSL finals and go out with a long as thread about why every SC2 player sucks, and there will be better players eventually is kind of a cock block for the fans. That's all.
Also it's kind of captain obvious at work, because there will always be better people for every sport / job / general task in the future, that's just how things work.
Every sport has evolved. If you compare a 1930s runner to Bolt, you can be damn sure that Bolt's better. However, calling Bolt, and the current sprinter scene a farce because there will be better runners in the future.. I dunno I don't really see the point.
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hard to actually debate the question when everyone puts in so much elitism
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I suppose if you think like OP does, anything that increases competition is good for SC2, because it forces better play to stay alive. I'm sure I'm not the only SC2 fan who wants to see the SC2 scene grow it's own stars, rather than leeching off the BW pro scene.
So stuff like this is pretty good for improving SC2, right?
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I strongly disagree with the OP.
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On May 13 2011 23:24 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 23:09 Legatus Lanius wrote:On May 13 2011 22:52 AndyJay wrote:
Except many people understand the OP and flat out disagree with him. I don't for a second believe the top sports people can swap sports and their dedication and natural talent will take them to the top. Success is a factor of many things, with a large one being pure luck The secondary question of course is how similar BW and SC2 are. Personally I think they are different enough. heres another perspective. let's consider mc/mvp amongst the top sc2 players atm and flash/bisu amongst the top bw players atm and then compare them. flash was better than mvp in every single possible way in bw. name a skill in broodwar and flash would be better at it than mvp. if we assume this, and our position is that flash wont necessarily walk into sc2 with adequate practise and be BETTER than mvp, then there must be something that mvp can do better than flash in sc2. what could that be? specific timings, knowledge of units and how they can correlate/work together in a group etc etc that's what i think it comes down to, though. either sc2 has a unique skill demand that mvp is better than flash at, or flash would more than likely be a better sc2 player than mvp with adequate practise. me personally? flash has an rts gift - hes a genius, a master of all the important things that a brood war player needs to excel. i cant see mvp having an advantage over flash in anyway except the benefit of extra practise, so my own personal conclusion is that i think flash would be a better player than mvp at sc2. i just cant see anything that drastically different in sc2 that mvp's rts talents would be better suited to than flash's, partly because his talents dont rival flash's. thats just how i feel about it, not claiming im correct or anything like that It might very well be so, but then again Flash might never switch to SC2, and calling every SC2 player bad because they were bad at BW isn't really nice or constructive. Especially choosing the time of a TSL finals and go out with a long as thread about why every SC2 player sucks, and there will be better players eventually is kind of a cock block for the fans. That's all. Also it's kind of captain obvious at work, because there will always be better people for every sport / job / general task in the future, that's just how things work. Every sport has evolved. If you compare a 1930s runner to Bolt, you can be damn sure that Bolt's better. However, calling Bolt, and the current sprinter scene a farce because there will be better runners in the future.. I dunno I don't really see the point.
i agree that, despite having good points, the article did seem a bit too aggressive and confrontational. i dont know much about intrigue and how he balances bw/sc2, maybe it is just partly his bw side venting?
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On May 13 2011 23:48 Legatus Lanius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 23:24 Euronyme wrote:On May 13 2011 23:09 Legatus Lanius wrote:On May 13 2011 22:52 AndyJay wrote:
Except many people understand the OP and flat out disagree with him. I don't for a second believe the top sports people can swap sports and their dedication and natural talent will take them to the top. Success is a factor of many things, with a large one being pure luck The secondary question of course is how similar BW and SC2 are. Personally I think they are different enough. heres another perspective. let's consider mc/mvp amongst the top sc2 players atm and flash/bisu amongst the top bw players atm and then compare them. flash was better than mvp in every single possible way in bw. name a skill in broodwar and flash would be better at it than mvp. if we assume this, and our position is that flash wont necessarily walk into sc2 with adequate practise and be BETTER than mvp, then there must be something that mvp can do better than flash in sc2. what could that be? specific timings, knowledge of units and how they can correlate/work together in a group etc etc that's what i think it comes down to, though. either sc2 has a unique skill demand that mvp is better than flash at, or flash would more than likely be a better sc2 player than mvp with adequate practise. me personally? flash has an rts gift - hes a genius, a master of all the important things that a brood war player needs to excel. i cant see mvp having an advantage over flash in anyway except the benefit of extra practise, so my own personal conclusion is that i think flash would be a better player than mvp at sc2. i just cant see anything that drastically different in sc2 that mvp's rts talents would be better suited to than flash's, partly because his talents dont rival flash's. thats just how i feel about it, not claiming im correct or anything like that It might very well be so, but then again Flash might never switch to SC2, and calling every SC2 player bad because they were bad at BW isn't really nice or constructive. Especially choosing the time of a TSL finals and go out with a long as thread about why every SC2 player sucks, and there will be better players eventually is kind of a cock block for the fans. That's all. Also it's kind of captain obvious at work, because there will always be better people for every sport / job / general task in the future, that's just how things work. Every sport has evolved. If you compare a 1930s runner to Bolt, you can be damn sure that Bolt's better. However, calling Bolt, and the current sprinter scene a farce because there will be better runners in the future.. I dunno I don't really see the point. i agree that, despite having good points, the article did seem a bit too aggressive and confrontational. i dont know much about intrigue and how he balances bw/sc2, maybe it is just partly his bw side venting?
That's my take on it as well. It's kind of sad it got to be front page though, if this indeed is the case.
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Nice read! Though abit flame bait I think it brings valid points.
You know guys one thing I notice one thing why should we be called the foreigners if the one who created the game were a foreigners?
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On May 13 2011 23:07 goiflin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 23:02 vitruvia wrote:On May 13 2011 23:00 goiflin wrote:On May 13 2011 22:54 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 22:51 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 22:40 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 22:35 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 22:27 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 21:00 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 20:37 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:
This is really insulting to all the victors of tournaments for SC2...
Its not like they have a game changing patch every month or so...
since the different game theory has already been stated, id like to throw it out there that i had a 90% win at golems 9.0
but only 30% on sc2 Do you honestly believe that your win percentage in Golem says anything about the (dis)similarities between BW and SC2? How is it even possible to follow GSL and not notice that subpar ex-BW pros are dominating? using different game logic bw and sc2 are different games golem 9.0 is a different game within a different game because i win in golems doesnt mean i will win in sc2 because MC loses 90% of his games in brood war doesnt mean he loses 90% in sc2 so i dont understand how he can call this competition a "FARCE" thats like saying special olympics is a farce because usain bolt is not competing It blows my mind that you actually believe that comparing some UMS and SC2 is like comparing BW and SC2. No, the fact that MC was a B-teamer means that he is likely to do well in SC2. This is what we have seen - ex-BW players are doing well in SC2 which means that the “different game”-argument is invalid. Ok lets see Minigun didnt even play RTS, now he is successful broodwar player? nope oh snap who knew you could be successful without playing its TWELVE YEAR predecessor? Oh look Warcraft 3, same company, same game right? NO last time i checked, there was no unit in brood war that had speed of speed lings, cloaking ability of a DT, and hit like a seige tank... Oh yea blade master very good yes? OH BUT look! it says 2 at the end of starcraft, must be close to the same!?~? sc2 is enhanced rts that requires different skills than sc1; the logic does not apply because when i play TVP, i go marine firebat medic with science vessals and wraiths Where in my post do I claim that people not coming from the BW scene cannot be successful? All Im saying is that one has to be pretty ignorant to not see how BW players benefits from their experience with RTS. Five out of five GSLs are won by former BW players. Why do you think that is? Also, what different skills are there in SC2 that are not present in BW? ok ill ask you a simple question. Q:Why did you buy sc2? answer is probably: A: Because i played sc with that reasoning, its obvious why 5/5 are brood war players a halo player doesnt wake up, drive to the local game stop (or whatever they have in korea) at 12:01, get his copy (not collections, defy the man) and try to become a competetive gamer. So, why hasn't someone like cruncher won a GSL? How about minigun? There are plenty of players in SC2 who never touched BW, who are doing good, right? Why aren't they winning championships consistently? Why are ex-bw players winning all the GSL's? What about TSL :D? It's an example of how we don't know the top tier players yet. When I said I don't think we've reached our pinnacle yet, I didn't mean that people like flash are the only ones who will ever be top-tier in SC2. I mean that, we may eventually find our own jaedong. Maybe thorizain will be that person, I don't know. Maybe somebody that we haven't heard from yet. I'm not sure. But I know that, when you look at the dedication involved in the BW scene, and you look at the sc2 scene, you know we aren't even halfway there yet, and that excites me.
I think that this is a much better way of saying intrigue's point. SC2 players are far from optimal now, but we can make our own stars. We don't need Brood War riding in on a white horse, and we certainly don't need them talking about how they could if they wanted to.
On May 13 2011 23:08 JesusOurSaviour wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 23:02 vitruvia wrote:On May 13 2011 23:00 goiflin wrote:On May 13 2011 22:54 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 22:51 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 22:40 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 22:35 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 22:27 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 21:00 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 20:37 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:
This is really insulting to all the victors of tournaments for SC2...
Its not like they have a game changing patch every month or so...
since the different game theory has already been stated, id like to throw it out there that i had a 90% win at golems 9.0
but only 30% on sc2 Do you honestly believe that your win percentage in Golem says anything about the (dis)similarities between BW and SC2? How is it even possible to follow GSL and not notice that subpar ex-BW pros are dominating? using different game logic bw and sc2 are different games golem 9.0 is a different game within a different game because i win in golems doesnt mean i will win in sc2 because MC loses 90% of his games in brood war doesnt mean he loses 90% in sc2 so i dont understand how he can call this competition a "FARCE" thats like saying special olympics is a farce because usain bolt is not competing It blows my mind that you actually believe that comparing some UMS and SC2 is like comparing BW and SC2. No, the fact that MC was a B-teamer means that he is likely to do well in SC2. This is what we have seen - ex-BW players are doing well in SC2 which means that the “different game”-argument is invalid. Ok lets see Minigun didnt even play RTS, now he is successful broodwar player? nope oh snap who knew you could be successful without playing its TWELVE YEAR predecessor? Oh look Warcraft 3, same company, same game right? NO last time i checked, there was no unit in brood war that had speed of speed lings, cloaking ability of a DT, and hit like a seige tank... Oh yea blade master very good yes? OH BUT look! it says 2 at the end of starcraft, must be close to the same!?~? sc2 is enhanced rts that requires different skills than sc1; the logic does not apply because when i play TVP, i go marine firebat medic with science vessals and wraiths Where in my post do I claim that people not coming from the BW scene cannot be successful? All Im saying is that one has to be pretty ignorant to not see how BW players benefits from their experience with RTS. Five out of five GSLs are won by former BW players. Why do you think that is? Also, what different skills are there in SC2 that are not present in BW? ok ill ask you a simple question. Q:Why did you buy sc2? answer is probably: A: Because i played sc with that reasoning, its obvious why 5/5 are brood war players a halo player doesnt wake up, drive to the local game stop (or whatever they have in korea) at 12:01, get his copy (not collections, defy the man) and try to become a competetive gamer. So, why hasn't someone like cruncher won a GSL? How about minigun? There are plenty of players in SC2 who never touched BW, who are doing good, right? Why aren't they winning championships consistently? Why are ex-bw players winning all the GSL's? What about TSL :D? Well said, the TSL has revealed foreigners can totally destroy Koreans if the Koreans don't prepare for their opponents. I guess we have to realise that even in the earliest days of BW, foreigners like Legionnaire etc were defeating Koreans. I mean, Sen and Mondragon at their peaks in BroodWar could surely take a few games off the A-teamers in Brood war. But I guess the point of OP is that the Koreans playing SCII are like bounty hunters, wannabe-BW pros, people rushing off to the Gold rush! They see an opportunity to earn easier money (since BW has become a death-pit of competition). I feel the Koreans who switched made a good decision and I hope they continue to improve. But at the same time I feel Foreigners now have a chance to keep up in skill level hand-in-hand with the Koreans.
If SC2 continues taking off in the foreign scene and stays kind of "enh" in Korea, we might a year from now wonder if a Korean can seriously compete in a foreign tournament.
Luckily, stuff like the MLG/GSL alliance will keep the skill level of the two scenes in sync. Hopefully.
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On May 13 2011 23:54 mansa wrote:
Nice read! Though abit flame bait I think it brings valid points.
You know guys one thing I notice one thing why should we be called the foreigners if the one who created the game were a foreigners?
because korea was/is so overwhelmingly dominant in brood war and everything involving the brood war scene extends from them. we adopted their view, and i guess sc2 has done the same
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On May 13 2011 23:59 Legatus Lanius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 23:54 mansa wrote:
Nice read! Though abit flame bait I think it brings valid points.
You know guys one thing I notice one thing why should we be called the foreigners if the one who created the game were a foreigners? because korea was/is so overwhelmingly dominant in brood war and everything involving the brood war scene extends from them. we adopted their view, and i guess sc2 has done the same
Though, because GOM has exclusive rights, the GSL is the only game in town for SC2. While the GSL is awesome, that chokes the community a little, which is part of why Koreans are coming to foreign tournaments now.
If the MLG gets broadcast in Korea now (and GOM is presumably cool with that), that'll help the scene.
As the scene grows, the level of play will improve. If Brood War players want to show up and start stomping, they're running out of time.
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On May 14 2011 00:15 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 23:59 Legatus Lanius wrote:On May 13 2011 23:54 mansa wrote:
Nice read! Though abit flame bait I think it brings valid points.
You know guys one thing I notice one thing why should we be called the foreigners if the one who created the game were a foreigners? because korea was/is so overwhelmingly dominant in brood war and everything involving the brood war scene extends from them. we adopted their view, and i guess sc2 has done the same Though, because GOM has exclusive rights, the GSL is the only game in town for SC2. While the GSL is awesome, that chokes the community a little, which is part of why Koreans are coming to foreign tournaments now. If the MLG gets broadcast in Korea now (and GOM is presumably cool with that), that'll help the scene. As the scene grows, the level of play will improve. If Brood War players want to show up and start stomping, they're running out of time.
i was merely offering an explanation as to why koreans are still koreans and everyone else is still foreigners. i wasnt trying to insinuate anything about bw/sc2 relations in korea
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On May 14 2011 00:27 Legatus Lanius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2011 00:15 Ribbon wrote:On May 13 2011 23:59 Legatus Lanius wrote:On May 13 2011 23:54 mansa wrote:
Nice read! Though abit flame bait I think it brings valid points.
You know guys one thing I notice one thing why should we be called the foreigners if the one who created the game were a foreigners? because korea was/is so overwhelmingly dominant in brood war and everything involving the brood war scene extends from them. we adopted their view, and i guess sc2 has done the same Though, because GOM has exclusive rights, the GSL is the only game in town for SC2. While the GSL is awesome, that chokes the community a little, which is part of why Koreans are coming to foreign tournaments now. If the MLG gets broadcast in Korea now (and GOM is presumably cool with that), that'll help the scene. As the scene grows, the level of play will improve. If Brood War players want to show up and start stomping, they're running out of time. i was merely offering an explanation as to why koreans are still koreans and everyone else is still foreigners. i wasnt trying to insinuate anything about bw/sc2 relations in korea
I know. I was just kind of springboarding.
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all hell will break loose when JD flash and bisu switch..if ever
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On May 13 2011 23:04 JesusOurSaviour wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 23:01 vitruvia wrote:On May 13 2011 22:52 AndyJay wrote:
Except many people understand the OP and flat out disagree with him. I don't for a second believe the top sports people can swap sports and their dedication and natural talent will take them to the top. Success is a factor of many things, with a large one being pure luck The secondary question of course is how similar BW and SC2 are. Personally I think they are different enough. I hope in the future there will be something called basketball 2 or hockey expansion : "insert title that makes fun about people in the north =(" and btw does anyone know if there are any notable players that switched from one sports scene to another, like physical sports? Hi vitruvia, I think the best sporting analogy I can think of is Karmichael Hunt (Rugby Union --> League --> AFL) Then there is Sonny Bill Williams (Rugby League, Rugby Union, Boxer). I think switching sports and still playing at the highest level is possible with sports that are similar - I.e. Australia Football League (AFL) <--> Gaelic footbal (Ireland). or Rugby Leageu <----> Rugby Union. To ask Michael Jordan to play soccer would be a total disaster.
What an odd choice of player and sport:
+ Show Spoiler +
He did play another sport and it was a disaster.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0904/nba.michael.jordan.playing.baseball/images/michael-jordan-white-sox-si-cover.jpg)
