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On May 13 2011 22:31 goiflin wrote:Though, saying that the competition is a farce seems to be specifically geared towards getting people angry. But, if we're a mature community, we can just see past silly statements like that, and actually discuss the meat of the article. Are we a mature community? I'd like to think so. The responses to this thread, however, seem contrary to me thinking so 
Maturity is a two-way street, you can't expect a deliberately insulting article to be greeted by a mature discussion. Even if this was face to face, say if you announced at halftime of "insert sport here" that the competition was a farce, you're not going to get a reasonable response. Let alone on the internet.
Your logic is skewed because your viewpoint is. "Oh, the article was insulting but everyone should get over it and treat it as the norm because *I* am not annoyed at all"
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On May 13 2011 22:40 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 22:35 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 22:27 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 21:00 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 20:37 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:
This is really insulting to all the victors of tournaments for SC2...
Its not like they have a game changing patch every month or so...
since the different game theory has already been stated, id like to throw it out there that i had a 90% win at golems 9.0
but only 30% on sc2 Do you honestly believe that your win percentage in Golem says anything about the (dis)similarities between BW and SC2? How is it even possible to follow GSL and not notice that subpar ex-BW pros are dominating? using different game logic bw and sc2 are different games golem 9.0 is a different game within a different game because i win in golems doesnt mean i will win in sc2 because MC loses 90% of his games in brood war doesnt mean he loses 90% in sc2 so i dont understand how he can call this competition a "FARCE" thats like saying special olympics is a farce because usain bolt is not competing It blows my mind that you actually believe that comparing some UMS and SC2 is like comparing BW and SC2. No, the fact that MC was a B-teamer means that he is likely to do well in SC2. This is what we have seen - ex-BW players are doing well in SC2 which means that the “different game”-argument is invalid. Ok lets see Minigun didnt even play RTS, now he is successful broodwar player? nope oh snap who knew you could be successful without playing its TWELVE YEAR predecessor? Oh look Warcraft 3, same company, same game right? NO last time i checked, there was no unit in brood war that had speed of speed lings, cloaking ability of a DT, and hit like a seige tank... Oh yea blade master very good yes? OH BUT look! it says 2 at the end of starcraft, must be close to the same!?~? sc2 is enhanced rts that requires different skills than sc1; the logic does not apply because when i play TVP, i go marine firebat medic with science vessals and wraiths
Nobody here said that you can't be good at SC2, when you don't come from a BW background, but while it may be out of line for me to say this, and I mean no offense to minigun, he's not exactly GSL code S material. Minigun is an amazing player. On a scale of 1-10, he's a 9. Nestea, MC, MVP? These ex-bw b teamers? They're a 20 on a scale of 1-10. They're worlds ahead of someone like minigun.
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On May 13 2011 22:31 goiflin wrote:Though, saying that the competition is a farce seems to be specifically geared towards getting people angry. But, if we're a mature community, we can just see past silly statements like that, and actually discuss the meat of the article. Are we a mature community? I'd like to think so. The responses to this thread, however, seem contrary to me thinking so
I wouldn't have minded an actual discussion, but if this is such a mature community, then why is there a need to run an article written in a way "specifically geared towards getting people angry"?
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United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
On May 13 2011 22:40 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 22:35 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 22:27 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 21:00 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 20:37 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:
This is really insulting to all the victors of tournaments for SC2...
Its not like they have a game changing patch every month or so...
since the different game theory has already been stated, id like to throw it out there that i had a 90% win at golems 9.0
but only 30% on sc2 Do you honestly believe that your win percentage in Golem says anything about the (dis)similarities between BW and SC2? How is it even possible to follow GSL and not notice that subpar ex-BW pros are dominating? using different game logic bw and sc2 are different games golem 9.0 is a different game within a different game because i win in golems doesnt mean i will win in sc2 because MC loses 90% of his games in brood war doesnt mean he loses 90% in sc2 so i dont understand how he can call this competition a "FARCE" thats like saying special olympics is a farce because usain bolt is not competing It blows my mind that you actually believe that comparing some UMS and SC2 is like comparing BW and SC2. No, the fact that MC was a B-teamer means that he is likely to do well in SC2. This is what we have seen - ex-BW players are doing well in SC2 which means that the “different game”-argument is invalid. Ok lets see Minigun didnt even play RTS, now he is successful broodwar player? nope oh snap who knew you could be successful without playing its TWELVE YEAR predecessor? Oh look Warcraft 3, same company, same game right? NO last time i checked, there was no unit in brood war that had speed of speed lings, cloaking ability of a DT, and hit like a seige tank... Oh yea blade master very good yes? OH BUT look! it says 2 at the end of starcraft, must be close to the same!?~? sc2 is enhanced rts that requires different skills than sc1; the logic does not apply because when i play TVP, i go marine firebat medic with science vessals and wraiths
I don't think SCII is enhanced in the way that it requires different skills than SCI. I would say it requires LESS of the same skills required in SCI. Ever wonder why MVP who was going at around 40% win-rate in Brood war, became a TOTAL SCII boss within a year? Why don't you go watch some BW games - just click on features ---> TLPD ---> Broodwar Korean ---> check out Flash / Jaedong / Bisu
Maybe then you'll realise that SCII is just simplified SCI. The fact that you can just build lots of units then A-click into a battle is testimony to how much easier the game is. Not saying that the top pros don't practice in SCII, not saying they don't have good mechanics, but I am saying that SCII requires the same skillset from SCI and we have seen time and again how the mechanics of BW has helped SCII pros.
Minigun? WHo is he? Sorry I seriously don't know.
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On May 13 2011 22:44 goiflin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 22:40 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 22:35 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 22:27 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 21:00 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 20:37 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:
This is really insulting to all the victors of tournaments for SC2...
Its not like they have a game changing patch every month or so...
since the different game theory has already been stated, id like to throw it out there that i had a 90% win at golems 9.0
but only 30% on sc2 Do you honestly believe that your win percentage in Golem says anything about the (dis)similarities between BW and SC2? How is it even possible to follow GSL and not notice that subpar ex-BW pros are dominating? using different game logic bw and sc2 are different games golem 9.0 is a different game within a different game because i win in golems doesnt mean i will win in sc2 because MC loses 90% of his games in brood war doesnt mean he loses 90% in sc2 so i dont understand how he can call this competition a "FARCE" thats like saying special olympics is a farce because usain bolt is not competing It blows my mind that you actually believe that comparing some UMS and SC2 is like comparing BW and SC2. No, the fact that MC was a B-teamer means that he is likely to do well in SC2. This is what we have seen - ex-BW players are doing well in SC2 which means that the “different game”-argument is invalid. Ok lets see Minigun didnt even play RTS, now he is successful broodwar player? nope oh snap who knew you could be successful without playing its TWELVE YEAR predecessor? Oh look Warcraft 3, same company, same game right? NO last time i checked, there was no unit in brood war that had speed of speed lings, cloaking ability of a DT, and hit like a seige tank... Oh yea blade master very good yes? OH BUT look! it says 2 at the end of starcraft, must be close to the same!?~? sc2 is enhanced rts that requires different skills than sc1; the logic does not apply because when i play TVP, i go marine firebat medic with science vessals and wraiths Nobody here said that you can't be good at SC2, when you don't come from a BW background, but while it may be out of line for me to say this, and I mean no offense to minigun, he's not exactly GSL code S material. Minigun is an amazing player. On a scale of 1-10, he's a 9. Nestea, MC, MVP? These ex-bw b teamers? They're a 20 on a scale of 1-10. They're worlds ahead of someone like minigun.
ok but read this
minigun's rts exp is ONE year
Nestea MC and MVP all probably had more than FIVE years
do i think nestea is better than minigun? yea probably
do i think he is 5x better? No.
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On May 13 2011 22:45 dormer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 22:31 goiflin wrote:Though, saying that the competition is a farce seems to be specifically geared towards getting people angry. But, if we're a mature community, we can just see past silly statements like that, and actually discuss the meat of the article. Are we a mature community? I'd like to think so. The responses to this thread, however, seem contrary to me thinking so I wouldn't have minded an actual discussion, but if this is such a mature community, then why is there a need to run an article written in a way "specifically geared towards getting people angry"?
So, we've come to "HE STARTED IT MOM"?
Be the better man. The entire article wasn't geared towards getting people angry. It's just some parts that he should have worded better. It doesn't make the article any less invalid.
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On May 13 2011 22:46 JesusOurSaviour wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 22:40 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 22:35 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 22:27 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 21:00 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 20:37 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:
This is really insulting to all the victors of tournaments for SC2...
Its not like they have a game changing patch every month or so...
since the different game theory has already been stated, id like to throw it out there that i had a 90% win at golems 9.0
but only 30% on sc2 Do you honestly believe that your win percentage in Golem says anything about the (dis)similarities between BW and SC2? How is it even possible to follow GSL and not notice that subpar ex-BW pros are dominating? using different game logic bw and sc2 are different games golem 9.0 is a different game within a different game because i win in golems doesnt mean i will win in sc2 because MC loses 90% of his games in brood war doesnt mean he loses 90% in sc2 so i dont understand how he can call this competition a "FARCE" thats like saying special olympics is a farce because usain bolt is not competing It blows my mind that you actually believe that comparing some UMS and SC2 is like comparing BW and SC2. No, the fact that MC was a B-teamer means that he is likely to do well in SC2. This is what we have seen - ex-BW players are doing well in SC2 which means that the “different game”-argument is invalid. Ok lets see Minigun didnt even play RTS, now he is successful broodwar player? nope oh snap who knew you could be successful without playing its TWELVE YEAR predecessor? Oh look Warcraft 3, same company, same game right? NO last time i checked, there was no unit in brood war that had speed of speed lings, cloaking ability of a DT, and hit like a seige tank... Oh yea blade master very good yes? OH BUT look! it says 2 at the end of starcraft, must be close to the same!?~? sc2 is enhanced rts that requires different skills than sc1; the logic does not apply because when i play TVP, i go marine firebat medic with science vessals and wraiths I don't think SCII is enhanced in the way that it requires different skills than SCI. I would say it requires LESS of the same skills required in SCI. Ever wonder why MVP who was going at around 40% win-rate in Brood war, became a TOTAL SCII boss within a year? Why don't you go watch some BW games - just click on features ---> TLPD ---> Broodwar Korean ---> check out Flash / Jaedong / Bisu Maybe then you'll realise that SCII is just simplified SCI. The fact that you can just build lots of units then A-click into a battle is testimony to how much easier the game is. Not saying that the top pros don't practice in SCII, not saying they don't have good mechanics, but I am saying that SCII requires the same skillset from SCI and we have seen time and again how the mechanics of BW has helped SCII pros. Minigun? WHo is he? Sorry I seriously don't know.
if they simplified it, then sc2 would just be sc1 with better AI
last time i checked, I couldnt have a tech lab or a reactor on my barraks,
last time i checked, seige tanks did 70 damage
last time i checked, defilers existed
last time i checked, LOLSCOUTS
sorry about this "simplification"
but where did these "simplifications" go?
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United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
On May 13 2011 22:40 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 22:31 goiflin wrote:On May 13 2011 22:16 Volkspanzer wrote:
You're right, intrigue. This article won't make you popular.
It's what happens when you write up a well-informed article that, while for all of its cited sources, figures, and observations (which are probably correct), comes off as nothing more than inciteful little blurb that works up the bile of the community. How this can get featured is beyond my understanding.
Simply put, this is a troll thread. No, it's not. It's just that, most of the people who are getting their jimmies rustled over this article, need to calm down. The article is just stating something that's pretty obvious to anyone; the level of competition isn't at it's pinnacle at the moment. Do you disagree with this? Do you think that we, in the sc2 community, already have our flash and jaedong (players who will always be better than all the newcomers)? I think not. I think there's better players out there, who are either occupied by a different game (BW or otherwise), or haven't been able to commit to the game yet, for whatever reason. The article seems points out that we haven't seen the best that this game has to offer yet, because many of the players aren't working hard enough or are not as talented as people who haven't switched over yet. And anyone who has a problem with this is pretty silly. I hope that we haven't seen the best this game has to offer. If we have, I doubt this game will last 10 years. And I hope it does. Though, saying that the competition is a farce seems to be specifically geared towards getting people angry. But, if we're a mature community, we can just see past silly statements like that, and actually discuss the meat of the article. Are we a mature community? I'd like to think so. The responses to this thread, however, seem contrary to me thinking so its good to see that people can understand the original post so well  . Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 22:40 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 22:35 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 22:27 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 21:00 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 20:37 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:
This is really insulting to all the victors of tournaments for SC2...
Its not like they have a game changing patch every month or so...
since the different game theory has already been stated, id like to throw it out there that i had a 90% win at golems 9.0
but only 30% on sc2 Do you honestly believe that your win percentage in Golem says anything about the (dis)similarities between BW and SC2? How is it even possible to follow GSL and not notice that subpar ex-BW pros are dominating? using different game logic bw and sc2 are different games golem 9.0 is a different game within a different game because i win in golems doesnt mean i will win in sc2 because MC loses 90% of his games in brood war doesnt mean he loses 90% in sc2 so i dont understand how he can call this competition a "FARCE" thats like saying special olympics is a farce because usain bolt is not competing It blows my mind that you actually believe that comparing some UMS and SC2 is like comparing BW and SC2. No, the fact that MC was a B-teamer means that he is likely to do well in SC2. This is what we have seen - ex-BW players are doing well in SC2 which means that the “different game”-argument is invalid. Ok lets see Minigun didnt even play RTS, now he is successful broodwar player? nope oh snap who knew you could be successful without playing its TWELVE YEAR predecessor? Oh look Warcraft 3, same company, same game right? NO last time i checked, there was no unit in brood war that had speed of speed lings, cloaking ability of a DT, and hit like a seige tank... Oh yea blade master very good yes? OH BUT look! it says 2 at the end of starcraft, must be close to the same!?~? sc2 is enhanced rts that requires different skills than sc1; the logic does not apply because when i play TVP, i go marine firebat medic with science vessals and wraiths how often do you win with MM firebat vessels and wraith I may ask,oh and reps please. technically a vulture is faster than a speedling and spidermines hit like a siegetank,although they do not cloak like a DT. 
Lol - What does this kid mean by "I go MM firebat, Sci Ves and Tanks"? ??? Is he talking about Broodwar T v P? WHo on earth does that ........................ Maybe he copies the AI? The AI do stick to MM firebat medics and tanks into late game against Protoss... but yea...
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On May 13 2011 22:40 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 22:35 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 22:27 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 21:00 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 20:37 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:
This is really insulting to all the victors of tournaments for SC2...
Its not like they have a game changing patch every month or so...
since the different game theory has already been stated, id like to throw it out there that i had a 90% win at golems 9.0
but only 30% on sc2 Do you honestly believe that your win percentage in Golem says anything about the (dis)similarities between BW and SC2? How is it even possible to follow GSL and not notice that subpar ex-BW pros are dominating? using different game logic bw and sc2 are different games golem 9.0 is a different game within a different game because i win in golems doesnt mean i will win in sc2 because MC loses 90% of his games in brood war doesnt mean he loses 90% in sc2 so i dont understand how he can call this competition a "FARCE" thats like saying special olympics is a farce because usain bolt is not competing It blows my mind that you actually believe that comparing some UMS and SC2 is like comparing BW and SC2. No, the fact that MC was a B-teamer means that he is likely to do well in SC2. This is what we have seen - ex-BW players are doing well in SC2 which means that the “different game”-argument is invalid. Ok lets see Minigun didnt even play RTS, now he is successful broodwar player? nope oh snap who knew you could be successful without playing its TWELVE YEAR predecessor? Oh look Warcraft 3, same company, same game right? NO last time i checked, there was no unit in brood war that had speed of speed lings, cloaking ability of a DT, and hit like a seige tank... Oh yea blade master very good yes? OH BUT look! it says 2 at the end of starcraft, must be close to the same!?~? sc2 is enhanced rts that requires different skills than sc1; the logic does not apply because when i play TVP, i go marine firebat medic with science vessals and wraiths
Where in my post do I claim that people not coming from the BW scene cannot be successful? All Im saying is that one has to be pretty ignorant to not see how BW players benefits from their experience with RTS. Five out of five GSLs are won by former BW players. Why do you think that is?
Also, what different skills are there in SC2 that are not present in BW?
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On May 13 2011 22:50 JesusOurSaviour wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 22:40 BLinD-RawR wrote:On May 13 2011 22:31 goiflin wrote:On May 13 2011 22:16 Volkspanzer wrote:
You're right, intrigue. This article won't make you popular.
It's what happens when you write up a well-informed article that, while for all of its cited sources, figures, and observations (which are probably correct), comes off as nothing more than inciteful little blurb that works up the bile of the community. How this can get featured is beyond my understanding.
Simply put, this is a troll thread. No, it's not. It's just that, most of the people who are getting their jimmies rustled over this article, need to calm down. The article is just stating something that's pretty obvious to anyone; the level of competition isn't at it's pinnacle at the moment. Do you disagree with this? Do you think that we, in the sc2 community, already have our flash and jaedong (players who will always be better than all the newcomers)? I think not. I think there's better players out there, who are either occupied by a different game (BW or otherwise), or haven't been able to commit to the game yet, for whatever reason. The article seems points out that we haven't seen the best that this game has to offer yet, because many of the players aren't working hard enough or are not as talented as people who haven't switched over yet. And anyone who has a problem with this is pretty silly. I hope that we haven't seen the best this game has to offer. If we have, I doubt this game will last 10 years. And I hope it does. Though, saying that the competition is a farce seems to be specifically geared towards getting people angry. But, if we're a mature community, we can just see past silly statements like that, and actually discuss the meat of the article. Are we a mature community? I'd like to think so. The responses to this thread, however, seem contrary to me thinking so its good to see that people can understand the original post so well . On May 13 2011 22:40 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 22:35 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 22:27 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 21:00 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 20:37 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:
This is really insulting to all the victors of tournaments for SC2...
Its not like they have a game changing patch every month or so...
since the different game theory has already been stated, id like to throw it out there that i had a 90% win at golems 9.0
but only 30% on sc2 Do you honestly believe that your win percentage in Golem says anything about the (dis)similarities between BW and SC2? How is it even possible to follow GSL and not notice that subpar ex-BW pros are dominating? using different game logic bw and sc2 are different games golem 9.0 is a different game within a different game because i win in golems doesnt mean i will win in sc2 because MC loses 90% of his games in brood war doesnt mean he loses 90% in sc2 so i dont understand how he can call this competition a "FARCE" thats like saying special olympics is a farce because usain bolt is not competing It blows my mind that you actually believe that comparing some UMS and SC2 is like comparing BW and SC2. No, the fact that MC was a B-teamer means that he is likely to do well in SC2. This is what we have seen - ex-BW players are doing well in SC2 which means that the “different game”-argument is invalid. Ok lets see Minigun didnt even play RTS, now he is successful broodwar player? nope oh snap who knew you could be successful without playing its TWELVE YEAR predecessor? Oh look Warcraft 3, same company, same game right? NO last time i checked, there was no unit in brood war that had speed of speed lings, cloaking ability of a DT, and hit like a seige tank... Oh yea blade master very good yes? OH BUT look! it says 2 at the end of starcraft, must be close to the same!?~? sc2 is enhanced rts that requires different skills than sc1; the logic does not apply because when i play TVP, i go marine firebat medic with science vessals and wraiths how often do you win with MM firebat vessels and wraith I may ask,oh and reps please. technically a vulture is faster than a speedling and spidermines hit like a siegetank,although they do not cloak like a DT. Lol - What does this kid mean by "I go MM firebat, Sci Ves and Tanks"? ??? Is he talking about Broodwar T v P? WHo on earth does that ........................ Maybe he copies the AI? The AI do stick to MM firebat medics and tanks into late game against Protoss... but yea...
nothing i can do about people not getting sarcasm
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United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
On May 13 2011 22:49 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 22:46 JesusOurSaviour wrote:On May 13 2011 22:40 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 22:35 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 22:27 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 21:00 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 20:37 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:
This is really insulting to all the victors of tournaments for SC2...
Its not like they have a game changing patch every month or so...
since the different game theory has already been stated, id like to throw it out there that i had a 90% win at golems 9.0
but only 30% on sc2 Do you honestly believe that your win percentage in Golem says anything about the (dis)similarities between BW and SC2? How is it even possible to follow GSL and not notice that subpar ex-BW pros are dominating? using different game logic bw and sc2 are different games golem 9.0 is a different game within a different game because i win in golems doesnt mean i will win in sc2 because MC loses 90% of his games in brood war doesnt mean he loses 90% in sc2 so i dont understand how he can call this competition a "FARCE" thats like saying special olympics is a farce because usain bolt is not competing It blows my mind that you actually believe that comparing some UMS and SC2 is like comparing BW and SC2. No, the fact that MC was a B-teamer means that he is likely to do well in SC2. This is what we have seen - ex-BW players are doing well in SC2 which means that the “different game”-argument is invalid. Ok lets see Minigun didnt even play RTS, now he is successful broodwar player? nope oh snap who knew you could be successful without playing its TWELVE YEAR predecessor? Oh look Warcraft 3, same company, same game right? NO last time i checked, there was no unit in brood war that had speed of speed lings, cloaking ability of a DT, and hit like a seige tank... Oh yea blade master very good yes? OH BUT look! it says 2 at the end of starcraft, must be close to the same!?~? sc2 is enhanced rts that requires different skills than sc1; the logic does not apply because when i play TVP, i go marine firebat medic with science vessals and wraiths I don't think SCII is enhanced in the way that it requires different skills than SCI. I would say it requires LESS of the same skills required in SCI. Ever wonder why MVP who was going at around 40% win-rate in Brood war, became a TOTAL SCII boss within a year? Why don't you go watch some BW games - just click on features ---> TLPD ---> Broodwar Korean ---> check out Flash / Jaedong / Bisu Maybe then you'll realise that SCII is just simplified SCI. The fact that you can just build lots of units then A-click into a battle is testimony to how much easier the game is. Not saying that the top pros don't practice in SCII, not saying they don't have good mechanics, but I am saying that SCII requires the same skillset from SCI and we have seen time and again how the mechanics of BW has helped SCII pros. Minigun? WHo is he? Sorry I seriously don't know. if they simplified it, then sc2 would just be sc1 with better AI last time i checked, I couldnt have a tech lab or a reactor on my barraks, last time i checked, seige tanks did 70 damage last time i checked, defilers existed last time i checked, LOLSCOUTS sorry about this "simplification" but where did these "simplifications" go?
Mr, can you even use a defiler? I have to admit, my zerg play in SC:BW only got as far as executing two-hatch muta + muta micro against Terran. Could never play like Jaedong with bases all over the map linked by nydus's, immaculate scourge + defiler play etc. But I can tell you defilers are not easy to use and I would love to see you use them.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50712 Posts
On May 13 2011 22:49 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 22:46 JesusOurSaviour wrote:On May 13 2011 22:40 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 22:35 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 22:27 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 21:00 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 20:37 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:
This is really insulting to all the victors of tournaments for SC2...
Its not like they have a game changing patch every month or so...
since the different game theory has already been stated, id like to throw it out there that i had a 90% win at golems 9.0
but only 30% on sc2 Do you honestly believe that your win percentage in Golem says anything about the (dis)similarities between BW and SC2? How is it even possible to follow GSL and not notice that subpar ex-BW pros are dominating? using different game logic bw and sc2 are different games golem 9.0 is a different game within a different game because i win in golems doesnt mean i will win in sc2 because MC loses 90% of his games in brood war doesnt mean he loses 90% in sc2 so i dont understand how he can call this competition a "FARCE" thats like saying special olympics is a farce because usain bolt is not competing It blows my mind that you actually believe that comparing some UMS and SC2 is like comparing BW and SC2. No, the fact that MC was a B-teamer means that he is likely to do well in SC2. This is what we have seen - ex-BW players are doing well in SC2 which means that the “different game”-argument is invalid. Ok lets see Minigun didnt even play RTS, now he is successful broodwar player? nope oh snap who knew you could be successful without playing its TWELVE YEAR predecessor? Oh look Warcraft 3, same company, same game right? NO last time i checked, there was no unit in brood war that had speed of speed lings, cloaking ability of a DT, and hit like a seige tank... Oh yea blade master very good yes? OH BUT look! it says 2 at the end of starcraft, must be close to the same!?~? sc2 is enhanced rts that requires different skills than sc1; the logic does not apply because when i play TVP, i go marine firebat medic with science vessals and wraiths I don't think SCII is enhanced in the way that it requires different skills than SCI. I would say it requires LESS of the same skills required in SCI. Ever wonder why MVP who was going at around 40% win-rate in Brood war, became a TOTAL SCII boss within a year? Why don't you go watch some BW games - just click on features ---> TLPD ---> Broodwar Korean ---> check out Flash / Jaedong / Bisu Maybe then you'll realise that SCII is just simplified SCI. The fact that you can just build lots of units then A-click into a battle is testimony to how much easier the game is. Not saying that the top pros don't practice in SCII, not saying they don't have good mechanics, but I am saying that SCII requires the same skillset from SCI and we have seen time and again how the mechanics of BW has helped SCII pros. Minigun? WHo is he? Sorry I seriously don't know. if they simplified it, then sc2 would just be sc1 with better AI last time i checked, I couldnt have a tech lab or a reactor on my barraks, last time i checked, seige tanks did 70 damage last time i checked, defilers existed last time i checked, LOLSCOUTS sorry about this "simplification" but where did these "simplifications" go?
its official,you have no idea what you are saying,calm down take a breather.
he said the mechanics of SC2 are a billion times simpler than that of BW,do you disagree?
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Except many people understand the OP and flat out disagree with him. I don't for a second believe the top sports people can swap sports and their dedication and natural talent will take them to the top. Success is a factor of many things, with a large one being pure luck The secondary question of course is how similar BW and SC2 are. Personally I think they are different enough.
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On May 13 2011 22:47 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 22:44 goiflin wrote:On May 13 2011 22:40 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 22:35 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 22:27 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 21:00 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 20:37 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:
This is really insulting to all the victors of tournaments for SC2...
Its not like they have a game changing patch every month or so...
since the different game theory has already been stated, id like to throw it out there that i had a 90% win at golems 9.0
but only 30% on sc2 Do you honestly believe that your win percentage in Golem says anything about the (dis)similarities between BW and SC2? How is it even possible to follow GSL and not notice that subpar ex-BW pros are dominating? using different game logic bw and sc2 are different games golem 9.0 is a different game within a different game because i win in golems doesnt mean i will win in sc2 because MC loses 90% of his games in brood war doesnt mean he loses 90% in sc2 so i dont understand how he can call this competition a "FARCE" thats like saying special olympics is a farce because usain bolt is not competing It blows my mind that you actually believe that comparing some UMS and SC2 is like comparing BW and SC2. No, the fact that MC was a B-teamer means that he is likely to do well in SC2. This is what we have seen - ex-BW players are doing well in SC2 which means that the “different game”-argument is invalid. Ok lets see Minigun didnt even play RTS, now he is successful broodwar player? nope oh snap who knew you could be successful without playing its TWELVE YEAR predecessor? Oh look Warcraft 3, same company, same game right? NO last time i checked, there was no unit in brood war that had speed of speed lings, cloaking ability of a DT, and hit like a seige tank... Oh yea blade master very good yes? OH BUT look! it says 2 at the end of starcraft, must be close to the same!?~? sc2 is enhanced rts that requires different skills than sc1; the logic does not apply because when i play TVP, i go marine firebat medic with science vessals and wraiths Nobody here said that you can't be good at SC2, when you don't come from a BW background, but while it may be out of line for me to say this, and I mean no offense to minigun, he's not exactly GSL code S material. Minigun is an amazing player. On a scale of 1-10, he's a 9. Nestea, MC, MVP? These ex-bw b teamers? They're a 20 on a scale of 1-10. They're worlds ahead of someone like minigun. ok but read this minigun's rts exp is ONE year Nestea MC and MVP all probably had more than FIVE years do i think nestea is better than minigun? yea probably do i think he is 5x better? No.
Well, I flat out disagree. Nestea has had better results in SC2 by a wide margin.
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Idk about what the measure of success over your land of illusion but here in the country of reality, it's mostly money that factors as being a success in a certain field.
Who has accumulated the highest money from SC2 is the most successful. Not sponsorships, not being in teams, not how high he is on your illusion of the best but how much money he has made by playing SC2 competitively.
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On May 13 2011 22:51 gn0m wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 22:40 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 22:35 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 22:27 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 21:00 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 20:37 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:
This is really insulting to all the victors of tournaments for SC2...
Its not like they have a game changing patch every month or so...
since the different game theory has already been stated, id like to throw it out there that i had a 90% win at golems 9.0
but only 30% on sc2 Do you honestly believe that your win percentage in Golem says anything about the (dis)similarities between BW and SC2? How is it even possible to follow GSL and not notice that subpar ex-BW pros are dominating? using different game logic bw and sc2 are different games golem 9.0 is a different game within a different game because i win in golems doesnt mean i will win in sc2 because MC loses 90% of his games in brood war doesnt mean he loses 90% in sc2 so i dont understand how he can call this competition a "FARCE" thats like saying special olympics is a farce because usain bolt is not competing It blows my mind that you actually believe that comparing some UMS and SC2 is like comparing BW and SC2. No, the fact that MC was a B-teamer means that he is likely to do well in SC2. This is what we have seen - ex-BW players are doing well in SC2 which means that the “different game”-argument is invalid. Ok lets see Minigun didnt even play RTS, now he is successful broodwar player? nope oh snap who knew you could be successful without playing its TWELVE YEAR predecessor? Oh look Warcraft 3, same company, same game right? NO last time i checked, there was no unit in brood war that had speed of speed lings, cloaking ability of a DT, and hit like a seige tank... Oh yea blade master very good yes? OH BUT look! it says 2 at the end of starcraft, must be close to the same!?~? sc2 is enhanced rts that requires different skills than sc1; the logic does not apply because when i play TVP, i go marine firebat medic with science vessals and wraiths Where in my post do I claim that people not coming from the BW scene cannot be successful? All Im saying is that one has to be pretty ignorant to not see how BW players benefits from their experience with RTS. Five out of five GSLs are won by former BW players. Why do you think that is? Also, what different skills are there in SC2 that are not present in BW?
ok ill ask you a simple question.
Q:Why did you buy sc2?
answer is probably:
A: Because i played sc
with that reasoning, its obvious why 5/5 are brood war players
a halo player doesnt wake up, drive to the local game stop (or whatever they have in korea) at 12:01, get his copy (not collections, defy the man) and try to become a competetive gamer.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50712 Posts
On May 13 2011 22:53 aimaimaim wrote:
Idk about what the measure of success over your land of illusion but here in the country of reality, it's mostly money that factors as being a success in a certain field.
Who has accumulated the highest money from SC2 is the most successful. Not sponsorships, not being in teams, not how high he is on your illusion of the best but how much money he has made by playing SC2 competitively.
really,I though that that in the land of illusion people that that he who made the most money is the best because all I hear is how "MC is the best because he made over 150K in 4 months"
+ Show Spoiler +wow,i'm on tilt today...My posting seems so wrong even to me.
doesn't mean you are not wrong KingOfKangTeeHee.
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On May 13 2011 22:54 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 22:51 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 22:40 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 22:35 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 22:27 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 21:00 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 20:37 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:
This is really insulting to all the victors of tournaments for SC2...
Its not like they have a game changing patch every month or so...
since the different game theory has already been stated, id like to throw it out there that i had a 90% win at golems 9.0
but only 30% on sc2 Do you honestly believe that your win percentage in Golem says anything about the (dis)similarities between BW and SC2? How is it even possible to follow GSL and not notice that subpar ex-BW pros are dominating? using different game logic bw and sc2 are different games golem 9.0 is a different game within a different game because i win in golems doesnt mean i will win in sc2 because MC loses 90% of his games in brood war doesnt mean he loses 90% in sc2 so i dont understand how he can call this competition a "FARCE" thats like saying special olympics is a farce because usain bolt is not competing It blows my mind that you actually believe that comparing some UMS and SC2 is like comparing BW and SC2. No, the fact that MC was a B-teamer means that he is likely to do well in SC2. This is what we have seen - ex-BW players are doing well in SC2 which means that the “different game”-argument is invalid. Ok lets see Minigun didnt even play RTS, now he is successful broodwar player? nope oh snap who knew you could be successful without playing its TWELVE YEAR predecessor? Oh look Warcraft 3, same company, same game right? NO last time i checked, there was no unit in brood war that had speed of speed lings, cloaking ability of a DT, and hit like a seige tank... Oh yea blade master very good yes? OH BUT look! it says 2 at the end of starcraft, must be close to the same!?~? sc2 is enhanced rts that requires different skills than sc1; the logic does not apply because when i play TVP, i go marine firebat medic with science vessals and wraiths Where in my post do I claim that people not coming from the BW scene cannot be successful? All Im saying is that one has to be pretty ignorant to not see how BW players benefits from their experience with RTS. Five out of five GSLs are won by former BW players. Why do you think that is? Also, what different skills are there in SC2 that are not present in BW? ok ill ask you a simple question. Q:Why did you buy sc2? answer is probably: A: Because i played sc with that reasoning, its obvious why 5/5 are brood war players a halo player doesnt wake up, drive to the local game stop (or whatever they have in korea) at 12:01, get his copy (not collections, defy the man) and try to become a competetive gamer.
OMG you just said yourself that not everyone in the SC2 scene are former BW-players. In fact, Im surprised by how few who actually made the switch. There are others playing SC2, the difference is that they are not successful. I seriously want you to think about why that is before you answer me.
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On May 13 2011 22:54 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 22:51 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 22:40 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 22:35 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 22:27 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:On May 13 2011 21:00 gn0m wrote:On May 13 2011 20:37 KingOfKangTheHee wrote:
This is really insulting to all the victors of tournaments for SC2...
Its not like they have a game changing patch every month or so...
since the different game theory has already been stated, id like to throw it out there that i had a 90% win at golems 9.0
but only 30% on sc2 Do you honestly believe that your win percentage in Golem says anything about the (dis)similarities between BW and SC2? How is it even possible to follow GSL and not notice that subpar ex-BW pros are dominating? using different game logic bw and sc2 are different games golem 9.0 is a different game within a different game because i win in golems doesnt mean i will win in sc2 because MC loses 90% of his games in brood war doesnt mean he loses 90% in sc2 so i dont understand how he can call this competition a "FARCE" thats like saying special olympics is a farce because usain bolt is not competing It blows my mind that you actually believe that comparing some UMS and SC2 is like comparing BW and SC2. No, the fact that MC was a B-teamer means that he is likely to do well in SC2. This is what we have seen - ex-BW players are doing well in SC2 which means that the “different game”-argument is invalid. Ok lets see Minigun didnt even play RTS, now he is successful broodwar player? nope oh snap who knew you could be successful without playing its TWELVE YEAR predecessor? Oh look Warcraft 3, same company, same game right? NO last time i checked, there was no unit in brood war that had speed of speed lings, cloaking ability of a DT, and hit like a seige tank... Oh yea blade master very good yes? OH BUT look! it says 2 at the end of starcraft, must be close to the same!?~? sc2 is enhanced rts that requires different skills than sc1; the logic does not apply because when i play TVP, i go marine firebat medic with science vessals and wraiths Where in my post do I claim that people not coming from the BW scene cannot be successful? All Im saying is that one has to be pretty ignorant to not see how BW players benefits from their experience with RTS. Five out of five GSLs are won by former BW players. Why do you think that is? Also, what different skills are there in SC2 that are not present in BW? ok ill ask you a simple question. Q:Why did you buy sc2? answer is probably: A: Because i played sc with that reasoning, its obvious why 5/5 are brood war players a halo player doesnt wake up, drive to the local game stop (or whatever they have in korea) at 12:01, get his copy (not collections, defy the man) and try to become a competetive gamer.
So, why hasn't someone like cruncher won a GSL? How about minigun? There are plenty of players in SC2 who never touched BW, who are doing good, right? Why aren't they winning championships consistently? Why are ex-bw players winning all the GSL's?
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On May 13 2011 22:52 AndyJay wrote:
Except many people understand the OP and flat out disagree with him. I don't for a second believe the top sports people can swap sports and their dedication and natural talent will take them to the top. Success is a factor of many things, with a large one being pure luck The secondary question of course is how similar BW and SC2 are. Personally I think they are different enough.
I hope in the future there will be something called basketball 2 or hockey expansion : "insert title that makes fun about people in the north =("
and btw does anyone know if there are any notable players that switched from one sports scene to another, like physical sports?
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EPT
