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Intrigue lives up to his name and created a "annoy to get as many website clicks as possible" article. Well done, you achieved your aim.
But I'm wondering if the TL front page could have a special section for articles fashioned after the Sun?
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Excellent write up. The best Ive read for quite a while here on TL. I agree totally but I also think one of the main poblems for SC2 is the patching and more than anything the upcomming expansions. With every change to the game they make somewhat reset the skill level and level the playing field for the pros. I dont think well see any bonjwas or the like in SC2 untili blizzard stop making drastic changes.
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On May 13 2011 16:33 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 16:25 mdb wrote:On May 13 2011 16:20 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Just a question for the people bashing this article, how much BW have you watched? Not played, watched. My thoughts exactly. Its obvious that the people getting angry with this article are all people who just havent watched, played and therefore dont understand bw at all. I want everyone who's bashing this article to go out and watch a flash/Jaedong/bisu Vod. Once you've watched several of those then come back and we can continue the debate since we'll all have the same base knowledge. Edit: anyone who's seen a Samsung LR thread should understand the pain I just went through, I didn't include stork in the list of players to watch :/
i watched a flash vs jaedong (Bigfile MSL 2010 Grand Finals) in response to this thread, i saw timing attacks, allins and even a build order win xD(cc first lost to 9pool, but moletrap said that this was WAY too greedy), it was highly entertaining and surely requires insane mechanics to alone macro at this level, but from what is actually happening in terms of fighting, it looks waaaay similar to sc2, so if those pros do not have to babysit their bases that much, what would they do in sc2?
i could imagine they search every last bit of the map constantly for drops, pylons, overlords etc.
but sc2 is all about the engagements, and from my severely lacking in experience point of view, dodging a lurker with a marine so that the others kill it looks somewhat like dodging banelings -.-
so yes i see the strength of those players, but as long as they or others do not show off their skills in sc2 and prove what could be done better to set themselves apart, this "elephant in the room" is more or less a big bubble with no content to base anything on... but it is nice to see the passion for both games, even if it boils down to flamewars i guess.
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I think the OP takes the wrong approach to this. This doesn't make me afraid for SC2's future, it makes more more excited for it in that once SC finally dies, and it will die it is a decade old already, then all these players will come to SC2 and be awesome at it.
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On May 13 2011 16:56 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 16:52 rysecake wrote:On May 13 2011 16:35 TheButtonmen wrote:On May 13 2011 16:33 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 13 2011 16:25 mdb wrote:On May 13 2011 16:20 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Just a question for the people bashing this article, how much BW have you watched? Not played, watched. My thoughts exactly. Its obvious that the people getting angry with this article are all people who just havent watched, played and therefore dont understand bw at all. I want everyone who's bashing this article to go out and watch a flash/Jaedong/bisu Vod. Once you've watched several of those then come back and we can continue the debate since we'll all have the same base knowledge. Why? I don't follow BW, I've never followed BW and I don't care about BW. I don't need a single lick of knowledge about BW to enjoy playing/watching SC2. No amount of knowledge about BW will lower my enjoyment of the SC2 games I've watched nor will any amount of BW knowledge make me acknowledge that the SC2 scene is a farce. Then you have absolutely no credibility in a comparison between bw and sc2. Like I figured, most people angry at this article never played/saw sc1 games. Except I never compared BW to SC2. Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 16:51 dormer wrote:
The issue that I think a lot of us are upset with is how the OP just dismisses current SC2 as a farce just because it doesn't stack up to the extremely high competitive standard of BW. The thing is that SC2 fans love SC2 just as much as BW fans love BW; we care about our favorite players and teams. Not to mention the large number of players, casters, and community members that put their livelihoods into SC2. It's extremely disrespectful and demeaning to dismiss a global community of gamers just because their game hasn't reached in less than a year the same pinnacles that BW has achieved after a decade
.....
SC2 is still pretty new, and I'm sure it has its flaws. There's a lot it can learn from BW, and if / when the top-level BW pros switch to SC2, that will be a big step in the growth of the game. I'm totally fine with discussing all of those things, in fact I'd be really curious to know what the BW vets here think about SC2's future. Discussion, yes. Dismissing, ridiculing a game that millions of people are passionate about? No -- that's what I think a lot of us "newbs" are taking an issue with. I dont think you guys realise that TL was a BW only site for many years. To me and to many other TLers SC2 came here and took over our site and some of us doesnt feel that the SC2 competition is better. Thats a big part of the problem I think. Personally Ive come to grow fond of SC2 but I agree 100% that the standard of the players and the games is lower. This is pretty much exactly how I feel but much much more clearly put, thanks Domer.
User was warned for this post
Great, Thanks for the warning. I wasnt even aware that I had posted this. Must have happend when I posted the post above.
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dodging a lurker with a marine so that the others kill it looks somewhat like dodging banelings -.-
Its sort of like dodging banelings while driving a car and making love to a superhot model.
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On May 13 2011 17:06 Robinsa wrote:
I dont think you guys realise that TL was a BW only site for many years. To me and to many other TLers SC2 came here and took over our site and some of us doesnt feel that the SC2 competition is better. Thats a big part of the problem I think.
Personally Ive come to grow fond of SC2 but I agree 100% that the standard of the players and the games is lower.
I do understand that, but I don't know what we're supposed to be doing about it. I'm sorry, but TL is probably the best SC2 site on the net, it's hard not to come here :-(
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On May 13 2011 16:35 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 16:33 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 13 2011 16:25 mdb wrote:On May 13 2011 16:20 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Just a question for the people bashing this article, how much BW have you watched? Not played, watched. My thoughts exactly. Its obvious that the people getting angry with this article are all people who just havent watched, played and therefore dont understand bw at all. I want everyone who's bashing this article to go out and watch a flash/Jaedong/bisu Vod. Once you've watched several of those then come back and we can continue the debate since we'll all have the same base knowledge. Why? I don't follow BW, I've never followed BW and I don't care about BW. I don't need a single lick of knowledge about BW to enjoy playing/watching SC2. No amount of knowledge about BW will lower my enjoyment of the SC2 games I've watched nor will any amount of BW knowledge make me acknowledge that the SC2 scene is a farce.
Lol yep we got it after the 10th time you said you don't care about BW, never did and never will. The players in BW have no effect on you or SC2, despite significant evidence in the way SC2 has developed as an e-sport and the strategies used. If Boxer didn't switch would you not care about him, despite basically being the father of SC e-sports?
Sad to see so many new players willfully ignorant of e-sports history that directly impacts the game they love.
On May 13 2011 16:50 Ruscour wrote:
Brood War is bound to fall. It has a large, loyal fanbase, but that fanbase is growing far slower than SC2's fanbase, and this will continue to deteriorate, because the game looks like balls. And that's a factor.
The transition will be slow, but it IS a transition. Brood War will die eventually. And Blizzard wants it to.
Yeah man the only reason I watch SC2 is because it has pew pew lasers and flashy visuals. BW suxx! Seriously, the fans of BW don't care how old the game looks and never did.
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On May 13 2011 17:28 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 16:35 TheButtonmen wrote:On May 13 2011 16:33 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 13 2011 16:25 mdb wrote:On May 13 2011 16:20 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Just a question for the people bashing this article, how much BW have you watched? Not played, watched. My thoughts exactly. Its obvious that the people getting angry with this article are all people who just havent watched, played and therefore dont understand bw at all. I want everyone who's bashing this article to go out and watch a flash/Jaedong/bisu Vod. Once you've watched several of those then come back and we can continue the debate since we'll all have the same base knowledge. Why? I don't follow BW, I've never followed BW and I don't care about BW. I don't need a single lick of knowledge about BW to enjoy playing/watching SC2. No amount of knowledge about BW will lower my enjoyment of the SC2 games I've watched nor will any amount of BW knowledge make me acknowledge that the SC2 scene is a farce. Lol yep we got it after the 10th time you said you don't care about BW, never did and never will. The players in BW have no effect on you or SC2, despite significant evidence in the way SC2 has developed as an e-sport and the strategies used. If Boxer didn't switch would you not care about him, despite basically being the father of SC e-sports? Sad to see so many new players willfully ignorant of e-sports history that directly impacts the game they love. Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 16:50 Ruscour wrote:
Brood War is bound to fall. It has a large, loyal fanbase, but that fanbase is growing far slower than SC2's fanbase, and this will continue to deteriorate, because the game looks like balls. And that's a factor.
The transition will be slow, but it IS a transition. Brood War will die eventually. And Blizzard wants it to. Yeah man the only reason I watch SC2 is because it has pew pew lasers and flashy visuals. BW suxx! Seriously, the fans of BW don't care how old the game looks and never did.
I'm a huge fan of BW and i care how it looks. I loved BW to death but the graphics are just so dated. Super Mario 3 and World/Zelda 3 aged with grace, to me BW didn't. Saying that BW fans don't care about graphics is a huge statement not really based on facts, i'm pretty sure a decent amount of fans moved over to SC2 cause it just much more fluent and looks better.
Edit: Just waiting for the "The ones who care about graphics were never BW fans" comeback.
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i dont see a problem with the graphics. they are 2d, yes, but so what? why are 3d graphics necessarily better than 2d ones? i remember seeing warcraft 3 for the first time and thinking how goddamned horrible it looked
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It's good times, I get to enjoy both BW and SC2... I can understand why the best wont switch to sc2 when they have their great salaries. Also as some have pointed out sc2 is still being figured out, and patches are constantly coming out. Pro-team houses are getting better over time so I don't worry, it's getting better all the time!
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On May 13 2011 12:33 nugget-92 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 11:55 Belial88 wrote:I'm (still) really surprised and embarrassed to be an SC2 fan considering the flaming and hate the OP is getting. Only, that's not really the case, more-so in the foreign scene but even in the Korean scene, the BW players only obviously had a head start because of the similarities of the game early on, now if you look at it, you have former BW pros doing well, former BW pros doing poorly, non-BW players doing well, non-BW players doing poorly, and everything in between. The current top players in SC2 aren't all players from BW, and it's still the first year or so. No, every top player in BW is amongst the *very top* of SC2 right now. July, Nada, Boxer, Rainbow, as the OP describes if you actually read his post, were old news when SC2 came out and had horrible records as of recently. MVP, Nestea, MC, Fruitdealer, were the best BW players when SC2 was released that now play SC2. I really don't understand why people are hating. It's like you haven't even read the OP. Excuse me but if you actually read the article you would notice that the very premise of this section of the article: Show nested quote +Their records (source TLPD) from their Brood War days:
FruitDealer - 13-20 (39.39%) Mar 2006 - Feb 2008
NesTea - 11-21 (34.38%) July 2007 - May 2009
MC - 1-9 (10.00%) July 2008 - May 2010
These guys weren’t average. They weren’t almost average. They were bad. Was to point out that Fruitdealer, Nestea and MC were bad BW players and that there were very few good BW player to change over. However, the article does point out some players that were good at the time of the switch. Nada Show nested quote +NaDa was the only one of the three to still somewhat regularly participate in Proleague. RainBOw Show nested quote + Only two ex-BW pros have the distinction of being above average in their past careers:
RainBOw, and MvP Although MvP is listed as having a 39% win rate when it is convenient to intrigue to say all BW converts were terrible when he had a 29-21 win rate after 2010 and a 1-26 win rate before 2010. I really don't understand why people are hating. It's like you haven't even read the OP.
Yes, I read the article... The point was that the best SC2 players are BW pros, and those BW pros weren't even good, so imagine what happens when the best BW pros switch. The best SC2 players now are the best BW players to switch so far, and the ones that have switched weren't even great BW players.
What are you trying to do?
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On May 13 2011 17:40 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 17:28 setzer wrote:On May 13 2011 16:35 TheButtonmen wrote:On May 13 2011 16:33 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 13 2011 16:25 mdb wrote:On May 13 2011 16:20 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Just a question for the people bashing this article, how much BW have you watched? Not played, watched. My thoughts exactly. Its obvious that the people getting angry with this article are all people who just havent watched, played and therefore dont understand bw at all. I want everyone who's bashing this article to go out and watch a flash/Jaedong/bisu Vod. Once you've watched several of those then come back and we can continue the debate since we'll all have the same base knowledge. Why? I don't follow BW, I've never followed BW and I don't care about BW. I don't need a single lick of knowledge about BW to enjoy playing/watching SC2. No amount of knowledge about BW will lower my enjoyment of the SC2 games I've watched nor will any amount of BW knowledge make me acknowledge that the SC2 scene is a farce. Lol yep we got it after the 10th time you said you don't care about BW, never did and never will. The players in BW have no effect on you or SC2, despite significant evidence in the way SC2 has developed as an e-sport and the strategies used. If Boxer didn't switch would you not care about him, despite basically being the father of SC e-sports? Sad to see so many new players willfully ignorant of e-sports history that directly impacts the game they love. On May 13 2011 16:50 Ruscour wrote:
Brood War is bound to fall. It has a large, loyal fanbase, but that fanbase is growing far slower than SC2's fanbase, and this will continue to deteriorate, because the game looks like balls. And that's a factor.
The transition will be slow, but it IS a transition. Brood War will die eventually. And Blizzard wants it to. Yeah man the only reason I watch SC2 is because it has pew pew lasers and flashy visuals. BW suxx! Seriously, the fans of BW don't care how old the game looks and never did. I'm a huge fan of BW and i care how it looks. I loved BW to death but the graphics are just so dated. Super Mario 3 and World/Zelda 3 aged with grace, to me BW didn't. Saying that BW fans don't care about graphics is a huge statement not really based on facts, i'm pretty sure a decent amount of fans moved over to SC2 cause it just much more fluent and looks better. Edit: Just waiting for the "The ones who care about graphics were never BW fans" comeback.
Won't give you what your waiting for but what of the BW fans who remained BW fans because they didn't prioritize graphics over gameplay?
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On May 13 2011 18:07 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 17:40 karpo wrote:On May 13 2011 17:28 setzer wrote:On May 13 2011 16:35 TheButtonmen wrote:On May 13 2011 16:33 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 13 2011 16:25 mdb wrote:On May 13 2011 16:20 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Just a question for the people bashing this article, how much BW have you watched? Not played, watched. My thoughts exactly. Its obvious that the people getting angry with this article are all people who just havent watched, played and therefore dont understand bw at all. I want everyone who's bashing this article to go out and watch a flash/Jaedong/bisu Vod. Once you've watched several of those then come back and we can continue the debate since we'll all have the same base knowledge. Why? I don't follow BW, I've never followed BW and I don't care about BW. I don't need a single lick of knowledge about BW to enjoy playing/watching SC2. No amount of knowledge about BW will lower my enjoyment of the SC2 games I've watched nor will any amount of BW knowledge make me acknowledge that the SC2 scene is a farce. Lol yep we got it after the 10th time you said you don't care about BW, never did and never will. The players in BW have no effect on you or SC2, despite significant evidence in the way SC2 has developed as an e-sport and the strategies used. If Boxer didn't switch would you not care about him, despite basically being the father of SC e-sports? Sad to see so many new players willfully ignorant of e-sports history that directly impacts the game they love. On May 13 2011 16:50 Ruscour wrote:
Brood War is bound to fall. It has a large, loyal fanbase, but that fanbase is growing far slower than SC2's fanbase, and this will continue to deteriorate, because the game looks like balls. And that's a factor.
The transition will be slow, but it IS a transition. Brood War will die eventually. And Blizzard wants it to. Yeah man the only reason I watch SC2 is because it has pew pew lasers and flashy visuals. BW suxx! Seriously, the fans of BW don't care how old the game looks and never did. I'm a huge fan of BW and i care how it looks. I loved BW to death but the graphics are just so dated. Super Mario 3 and World/Zelda 3 aged with grace, to me BW didn't. Saying that BW fans don't care about graphics is a huge statement not really based on facts, i'm pretty sure a decent amount of fans moved over to SC2 cause it just much more fluent and looks better. Edit: Just waiting for the "The ones who care about graphics were never BW fans" comeback. Won't give you what your waiting for but what of the BW fans who remained BW fans because they didn't prioritize graphics over gameplay?
I have no problem with people sticking to what they enjoy the most. I just argued that saying that bw fans overall don't care about graphics is a bold thing to say.
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On May 13 2011 18:12 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 18:07 ShadeR wrote:On May 13 2011 17:40 karpo wrote:On May 13 2011 17:28 setzer wrote:On May 13 2011 16:35 TheButtonmen wrote:On May 13 2011 16:33 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 13 2011 16:25 mdb wrote:On May 13 2011 16:20 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Just a question for the people bashing this article, how much BW have you watched? Not played, watched. My thoughts exactly. Its obvious that the people getting angry with this article are all people who just havent watched, played and therefore dont understand bw at all. I want everyone who's bashing this article to go out and watch a flash/Jaedong/bisu Vod. Once you've watched several of those then come back and we can continue the debate since we'll all have the same base knowledge. Why? I don't follow BW, I've never followed BW and I don't care about BW. I don't need a single lick of knowledge about BW to enjoy playing/watching SC2. No amount of knowledge about BW will lower my enjoyment of the SC2 games I've watched nor will any amount of BW knowledge make me acknowledge that the SC2 scene is a farce. Lol yep we got it after the 10th time you said you don't care about BW, never did and never will. The players in BW have no effect on you or SC2, despite significant evidence in the way SC2 has developed as an e-sport and the strategies used. If Boxer didn't switch would you not care about him, despite basically being the father of SC e-sports? Sad to see so many new players willfully ignorant of e-sports history that directly impacts the game they love. On May 13 2011 16:50 Ruscour wrote:
Brood War is bound to fall. It has a large, loyal fanbase, but that fanbase is growing far slower than SC2's fanbase, and this will continue to deteriorate, because the game looks like balls. And that's a factor.
The transition will be slow, but it IS a transition. Brood War will die eventually. And Blizzard wants it to. Yeah man the only reason I watch SC2 is because it has pew pew lasers and flashy visuals. BW suxx! Seriously, the fans of BW don't care how old the game looks and never did. I'm a huge fan of BW and i care how it looks. I loved BW to death but the graphics are just so dated. Super Mario 3 and World/Zelda 3 aged with grace, to me BW didn't. Saying that BW fans don't care about graphics is a huge statement not really based on facts, i'm pretty sure a decent amount of fans moved over to SC2 cause it just much more fluent and looks better. Edit: Just waiting for the "The ones who care about graphics were never BW fans" comeback. Won't give you what your waiting for but what of the BW fans who remained BW fans because they didn't prioritize graphics over gameplay? I have no problem with people sticking to what they enjoy the most. I just argued that saying that bw fans overall don't care about graphics is a bold thing to say.
Do people watch BW because of BW's graphics? I suspect not. I see no reason why anyone would switch to SC2 for that sole reason. Reasons such as time, burnout, lack of interest are perfectly valid. For many fans who forsake sleep to watch Koreans in a far away land play a video game, you just don't one day think: "man, this game looks like shit! it sux! SC2 FOR THE WIN!"
Maybe a few have but I definitely wouldn't think it is a "decent amount of fans" as you said.
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On May 13 2011 17:04 Naphal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 16:33 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 13 2011 16:25 mdb wrote:On May 13 2011 16:20 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Just a question for the people bashing this article, how much BW have you watched? Not played, watched. My thoughts exactly. Its obvious that the people getting angry with this article are all people who just havent watched, played and therefore dont understand bw at all. I want everyone who's bashing this article to go out and watch a flash/Jaedong/bisu Vod. Once you've watched several of those then come back and we can continue the debate since we'll all have the same base knowledge. Edit: anyone who's seen a Samsung LR thread should understand the pain I just went through, I didn't include stork in the list of players to watch :/ i watched a flash vs jaedong (Bigfile MSL 2010 Grand Finals) in response to this thread, i saw timing attacks, allins and even a build order win xD(cc first lost to 9pool, but moletrap said that this was WAY too greedy), it was highly entertaining and surely requires insane mechanics to alone macro at this level, but from what is actually happening in terms of fighting, it looks waaaay similar to sc2, so if those pros do not have to babysit their bases that much, what would they do in sc2? i could imagine they search every last bit of the map constantly for drops, pylons, overlords etc. but sc2 is all about the engagements, and from my severely lacking in experience point of view, dodging a lurker with a marine so that the others kill it looks somewhat like dodging banelings -.- so yes i see the strength of those players, but as long as they or others do not show off their skills in sc2 and prove what could be done better to set themselves apart, this "elephant in the room" is more or less a big bubble with no content to base anything on... but it is nice to see the passion for both games, even if it boils down to flamewars i guess.
Honestly, the Bigfile MSL finals was pretty shitty in terms of exciting back-and-forth play. It was mainly won through some clever and unique timing attacks + some overly greedy play from the other player. I don't think it's a very good example of what BW has to offer but atleast, it does show that contrary to popular belief among some SC2 fans, BW is not just about who can click faster and that strategy and timings plays a huge role. I don't think that series was particularly exciting from a spectator point of view, but there was a lot of mindgames involved that only someone who knows the history between the two players might be able to appreciate.
Still, I appreciate the fact that you actually gave it a proper try instead of just going "lol this game looks so ugly and boring, i cant believe people still play this outdated ugly game".
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Russian Federation122 Posts
I wonder, have pokerstrategy ppl seen this? 3 days before the TSL3 finals one of TL staff writes the article, where he calls SC2 competition (so also TSL3) a farce. If I'm from pokerstrategy, I would really question sponsoring the next tournament.
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On May 13 2011 18:12 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 18:07 ShadeR wrote:On May 13 2011 17:40 karpo wrote:On May 13 2011 17:28 setzer wrote:On May 13 2011 16:35 TheButtonmen wrote:On May 13 2011 16:33 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 13 2011 16:25 mdb wrote:On May 13 2011 16:20 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Just a question for the people bashing this article, how much BW have you watched? Not played, watched. My thoughts exactly. Its obvious that the people getting angry with this article are all people who just havent watched, played and therefore dont understand bw at all. I want everyone who's bashing this article to go out and watch a flash/Jaedong/bisu Vod. Once you've watched several of those then come back and we can continue the debate since we'll all have the same base knowledge. Why? I don't follow BW, I've never followed BW and I don't care about BW. I don't need a single lick of knowledge about BW to enjoy playing/watching SC2. No amount of knowledge about BW will lower my enjoyment of the SC2 games I've watched nor will any amount of BW knowledge make me acknowledge that the SC2 scene is a farce. Lol yep we got it after the 10th time you said you don't care about BW, never did and never will. The players in BW have no effect on you or SC2, despite significant evidence in the way SC2 has developed as an e-sport and the strategies used. If Boxer didn't switch would you not care about him, despite basically being the father of SC e-sports? Sad to see so many new players willfully ignorant of e-sports history that directly impacts the game they love. On May 13 2011 16:50 Ruscour wrote:
Brood War is bound to fall. It has a large, loyal fanbase, but that fanbase is growing far slower than SC2's fanbase, and this will continue to deteriorate, because the game looks like balls. And that's a factor.
The transition will be slow, but it IS a transition. Brood War will die eventually. And Blizzard wants it to. Yeah man the only reason I watch SC2 is because it has pew pew lasers and flashy visuals. BW suxx! Seriously, the fans of BW don't care how old the game looks and never did. I'm a huge fan of BW and i care how it looks. I loved BW to death but the graphics are just so dated. Super Mario 3 and World/Zelda 3 aged with grace, to me BW didn't. Saying that BW fans don't care about graphics is a huge statement not really based on facts, i'm pretty sure a decent amount of fans moved over to SC2 cause it just much more fluent and looks better. Edit: Just waiting for the "The ones who care about graphics were never BW fans" comeback. Won't give you what your waiting for but what of the BW fans who remained BW fans because they didn't prioritize graphics over gameplay? I have no problem with people sticking to what they enjoy the most. I just argued that saying that bw fans overall don't care about graphics is a bold thing to say.
The funny thing is, a lot of BW fans prefer the visuals of BW over SC2's visuals. And it's not just some nostalgia thing either. One of the complaints about SC2 is that there's too much visual clutter and often times, battles just look like one giant clusterfuck whereas in BW, it's much easier to notice the little details in a huge battle. Flashy graphics are fine for single player experiences,, but for competitive gaming, I'd pick BW's visuals any day of the week (it says something about SC2's visuals that a lot of people like to play it on medium setting even when they have the computers to handle it on ultra).
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51709 Posts
On May 13 2011 18:18 DarkMatter_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 17:04 Naphal wrote:On May 13 2011 16:33 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 13 2011 16:25 mdb wrote:On May 13 2011 16:20 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Just a question for the people bashing this article, how much BW have you watched? Not played, watched. My thoughts exactly. Its obvious that the people getting angry with this article are all people who just havent watched, played and therefore dont understand bw at all. I want everyone who's bashing this article to go out and watch a flash/Jaedong/bisu Vod. Once you've watched several of those then come back and we can continue the debate since we'll all have the same base knowledge. Edit: anyone who's seen a Samsung LR thread should understand the pain I just went through, I didn't include stork in the list of players to watch :/ i watched a flash vs jaedong (Bigfile MSL 2010 Grand Finals) in response to this thread, i saw timing attacks, allins and even a build order win xD(cc first lost to 9pool, but moletrap said that this was WAY too greedy), it was highly entertaining and surely requires insane mechanics to alone macro at this level, but from what is actually happening in terms of fighting, it looks waaaay similar to sc2, so if those pros do not have to babysit their bases that much, what would they do in sc2? i could imagine they search every last bit of the map constantly for drops, pylons, overlords etc. but sc2 is all about the engagements, and from my severely lacking in experience point of view, dodging a lurker with a marine so that the others kill it looks somewhat like dodging banelings -.- so yes i see the strength of those players, but as long as they or others do not show off their skills in sc2 and prove what could be done better to set themselves apart, this "elephant in the room" is more or less a big bubble with no content to base anything on... but it is nice to see the passion for both games, even if it boils down to flamewars i guess. Honestly, the Bigfile MSL finals was pretty shitty in terms of exciting back-and-forth play. It was mainly won through some clever and unique timing attacks + some overly greedy play from the other player. I don't think it's a very good example of what BW has to offer but atleast, it does show that contrary to popular belief among some SC2 fans, BW is not just about who can click faster and that strategy and timings plays a huge role. I don't think that series was particularly exciting from a spectator point of view, but there was a lot of mindgames involved that only someone who knows the history between the two players might be able to appreciate. Still, I appreciate the fact that you actually gave it a proper try instead of just going "lol this game looks so ugly and boring, i cant believe people still play this outdated ugly game".
yeah BigFile MSL finals weren't as good as the smifinals,both of them.
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On May 13 2011 16:58 Slakter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 16:50 Ruscour wrote:
Brood War is bound to fall. It has a large, loyal fanbase, but that fanbase is growing far slower than SC2's fanbase, and this will continue to deteriorate, because the game looks like balls. And that's a factor.
The transition will be slow, but it IS a transition. Brood War will die eventually. And Blizzard wants it to. How can this be true in any way? At least in South Korea this just simply IS NOT true. Brood war is far from dying, players are still playing at a higher level than SC2 will see in many years, the game is constantly changing (Through pros working out new builds, not patches) and the competition is as hard as it has ever been. I cant see how anyone can think that Brood war is dying.
Sorry to break it to you but it doesn't matter how much competition, new builds, level of play,etc there is. It boils down to how many people actually care, and I guarantee you the broodwar audience is not growing, it's only declining. No 15 year old is going to start up their first rts experience with broodwar, but with sc2. It's been over a decade, it's dying, that's all there is to it.
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EPT
