One I dont buy this. Two if in fact the staff had a huge internal discussion regarding this post then why have a double standard? If I posted something like this I would be banned for a week. A number of top tier TLers (from BW backgrounds) have said its insulting and inflammatory. If the staff had a "huge internal discussion" then why does the staff seem so divided on this topic. If not divided then why does this "news post" break a number of posting rules that this site lives by.
Maybe Im missing something. Im open to that.
There are plenty of articles spotlighted and in the Final Edits that people aren't always going to agree with.
Intrigue backed up his bold opinions with facts. As a staff writer and veteran of the community, yes of course you get more leeway (lmao, they even mention that in the Commandments!). You get banned for posting silly shit that isn't backed up. That and it helps when people from the community actually know who you are.
If you are a nobody then surely you should be a little more careful. It's good discussion! Just look at how many people are posting with regards to it. I'd say the article did it's job. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it doesn't belong.
To summarize,
It's their house.
Intrigue gets more leeway as a staff member and long time veteran. The staff are allowed to be divided. Controversial issues and debates are allowed as long as you support your claims.
@ dudes who complains why this article is the "News"
It ISNT, ffs.. It is an editorial, so do yourself a favor and find out what that means before complaining..
Also, imo you are welcome to have an opinion, but atrocious manners and being completely uncivil is the surest way to make sure that your opinion will NEVER get across.. If one guy come up to me and say "fuck your mother, father! e = mc^2", i will be VERY unlikely to respond with "you're right"..
On the article itself, it was a great read, i enjoyed it . If HotS or LotV were to improve the gameplay and spectator experience, i will be sure to follow SC2 closely .. For the moment i ll be awaiting the CJ slaughter-fest thats incoming from Bisu next week (peace, CJ people :p).
I would never say that competition is "a farce". Just because a player performed "poorly" in BW does not mean they are bad by any stretch. In case you have not noticed every tournament seems to evolve the various strategies that pros use and we have not even hit an expansion yet. BW was not at its peak within a year of coming out. Moon is a W3 player who is pretty darn good at SC2 and obviously the games are hardly related. It comes down to practice regardless of the game.
On May 13 2011 08:26 darmousseh wrote: I don't think anyone has a problem with the article's conclusions or reasoning, the problem most people have is that the sc2 only community feels like this is just elitism from the bw community. One thing you learn in journalism is that even opinion articles need to be objective otherwise it's just a biased rant. There are a few things that most people here are upset about.
1. It's featured news. Why is this featured? Myself, along with others, simply don't understand why this thread gets extra attention. Other than those completely unaware, there is no new information. We already knew that if scbw pros switched over they would give every player a run of their money. Even though it is an opinion, by being on the front page, it is promoted. If it was just a blog and was spotlighted, no one would be saying anything.
TLFEs have been highly opinionated and biased since their inception. To expect otherwise is to ignore their rich history of being so fanboy-driven.
They're not news, and they don't try to be news.
Silly us for thinking it was news seeing as how it's listed under Featured News.
Hi, 1st line of the article: "Note: This is an editorial. The opinions expressed by this article do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff (other than intrigue)."
Silly for a writer to think his audience is literate, seeing as how this site is mostly text based.
On May 13 2011 09:04 ffreakk wrote: @ dudes who complains why this article is the "News"
It ISNT, ffs.. It is an editorial, so do yourself a favor and find out what that means before complaining..
Also, imo you are welcome to have an opinion, but atrocious manners and being completely uncivil is the surest way to make sure that your opinion will NEVER get across.. If one guy come up to me and say "fuck your mother, father! e = mc^2", i will be VERY unlikely to respond with "you're right"..
On the article itself, it was a great read, i enjoyed it . If HotS or LotV were to improve the gameplay and spectator experience, i will be sure to follow SC2 closely .. For the moment i ll be awaiting the CJ slaughter-fest thats incoming from Bisu next week (peace, CJ people :p).
I Doubt that Hots or Lotv will save SC2 if the players aren't going to be motivated to play top level. But yeah, one can hope.
and lol T1 wont be raping CJ anytime soon. T1 fan myself but I can't see it coming, just can't.
On May 13 2011 09:02 manloveman wrote: I dont know who is worse. The bitter vets sperging bw>sc2 (including OP) or the sc2 noobs who is actually trying to argue against OP's logic.
The former group would not exist without the latter.
It fails to explain the anomalies of his 'theory' that is Nada, July, Boxer, and MVP.
Also, it makes a poor criticism of patching in Starcraft 2, as though patching destabilizes the game. Even brood war I argue could use patches to fix minor bugs or make ZvZ more enticing, etc if not for Blizzard developing team not caring about the older game in favour of developing the balance of newer games. The criticism on patches is stupid as hell basically, patches are there not just to balance, but to fix exploits, bugs etc instead of needing KESPA to tell players not to abuse a certain bug, etc.
The article also brings up certain quotes by players, that should only be taken contextually, but the author makes an effort to manipulate them to support his points.
Most surprising thing to me is how many responses this TLFE got compared to the others. And it's not even the most controversial (I'm looking at YOU on waxen wings).
I know that TL has gotten a LOT bigger, but it hasn't grow 20X as large in one year, as this is on track to get 20X a many comments as any other.
On May 13 2011 08:30 xarthaz wrote: What a lot of people dont understand is the big skill in the game. SC2 takes totally different and DIFFICULT skills to get good at, which is why imo bw pros havent switched. And paradoxically it also shows the heroism, the mechanical ability of the SC2 top players that remained unappreciated in the BW scene due to it not contributing to game winning.
What? SC2 has very few skills that you need that you did not need in BW, i actually have trouble naming any off the top of my head.
On May 13 2011 08:34 gn0m wrote:
On May 13 2011 08:30 xarthaz wrote: What a lot of people dont understand is the big skill in the game. SC2 takes totally different and DIFFICULT skills to get good at, which is why imo bw pros havent switched. And paradoxically it also shows the heroism, the mechanical ability of the SC2 top players that remained unappreciated in the BW scene due to it not contributing to game winning.
What type of skill is there in SC2 that is absent in BW?
Top level stim cloning to preserve medivac energy, emp sniping, force field speed casting. all these require insane speed and macro that imo dont get rewarded in bw, because of that the gsl winners were not that good in bw, because their skill didnt get rewarded
They didn't get rewarded because they lacked skill and motivation. For example : MVP. A Woongjin Terran.
Oh please. Action only had decent defiler control in 1 game against flash and he still lost it. hardly remarkable. and while acouple of those guys do good stuff imo marinekings micro is what really makes it shine in sc2 because in sc1 you dont have this dps output to reward pro micro, what im trying to say is the damage is too low. remember, for reaction speed and micro skill to have a large relevance to outcome of battle, the whole battle needs to end relatively quickly which is possuble due to sc2 high dps units, but sc1 units low damage so fight too long and doesnt reward pro micro. this is why micro experts like mvp and nestea didnt get reward they deserved in sc1. sorry but thats how it works
No pro micro ?
And that is just straight up amazing skill. What do you think SC2 is going to be like once people work up to that level of control? Mechanics have only really just started to be hammered out, people are still getting used to warp timings (especially with the patches), larvae usage and injects, what to chrono when, and how to utilize addons. Not to mention people starting to abuse things like Feedback, EMP, using Graviton to pick up Immortals being 250mm'd, Zergling run-bys, Blue Flame Hellion drops, etc.
I'm just sick of seeing BW players saying SC2 will never live up to "their game". I'm sick of SC2 players saying BW is completely outdated and stupid. I think BW and SC2 are both amazing games with different mechanics, and both will continue to prosper for a while. There are skills in both, and yes, the BW players have had 10+ more years to develop theirs, while SC2 is still producing them at an amazing rate.
Hating one or the other is silly, just as silly as any other fanboy argument.
On May 13 2011 08:26 darmousseh wrote: I don't think anyone has a problem with the article's conclusions or reasoning, the problem most people have is that the sc2 only community feels like this is just elitism from the bw community. One thing you learn in journalism is that even opinion articles need to be objective otherwise it's just a biased rant. There are a few things that most people here are upset about.
1. It's featured news. Why is this featured? Myself, along with others, simply don't understand why this thread gets extra attention. Other than those completely unaware, there is no new information. We already knew that if scbw pros switched over they would give every player a run of their money. Even though it is an opinion, by being on the front page, it is promoted. If it was just a blog and was spotlighted, no one would be saying anything.
TLFEs have been highly opinionated and biased since their inception. To expect otherwise is to ignore their rich history of being so fanboy-driven.
They're not news, and they don't try to be news.
Silly us for thinking it was news seeing as how it's listed under Featured News.
Hi, 1st line of the article: "Note: This is an editorial. The opinions expressed by this article do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff (other than intrigue)."
Silly for a writer to think his audience is literate, seeing as how this site is mostly text based.
Oh I guess you missed the part about it being in the Featured News section? I'd say that would be someone saying that it is indeed news.
This thread = SC2 players getting angry at the suggestion that the top players in their game aren't as good as the top players from a different game and BW players getting the opportunity to insult anyone who didn't follow BW.
On May 13 2011 09:02 manloveman wrote: I dont know who is worse. The bitter vets sperging bw>sc2 (including OP) or the sc2 noobs who is actually trying to argue against OP's logic.
While OP is very solid in his arguments, there is one thing he is dead wrong about. The sc2 scene is not a farce. While its top korean players where nobody in bw, and the game itself is a lot less mechanical, dare I say more casual, they still represent the best there is in the current sc2 scene. They are still competing and I'm still entertained and following.
If you wonna watch super skilled gameplay that the sc2 scene is still working its towards, then fine with me. Just dont belittle the ones that just wonna see the current best of the game they play and enjoy.
I agree with you that they do represent the best of the current sc2 scene. But that's irrelevant to whether they are a farce or not.
The farce aspect comes because there may be better players out there who, for whatever reasons, refuse to play sc2. This makes sc2 look like a minor league. (whether it's true or not doesn't matter, since that's the public perception in korea, and perception is what drives advertising sales). So in the mind of BW fans, two questions arise: 1.) why would i want to watch minor league players? and 2.) why are they getting paid so much money?
I raised this earlier in the thread but i'm going to bring it up again. SC2 feels like Guitar Hero, while BW feels like real guitar played by geniuses. This may or may not be true. But when a product imitates an already popular product, the burden of proof lies on the newcomer to show beyond all doubt not only that they are the superior product, but they can attract buyers as well. (See: Motorola Xoom vs. Ipad 2. Xoom may have superior stats but no one buys it.)
On May 13 2011 08:30 xarthaz wrote: What a lot of people dont understand is the big skill in the game. SC2 takes totally different and DIFFICULT skills to get good at, which is why imo bw pros havent switched. And paradoxically it also shows the heroism, the mechanical ability of the SC2 top players that remained unappreciated in the BW scene due to it not contributing to game winning.
What? SC2 has very few skills that you need that you did not need in BW, i actually have trouble naming any off the top of my head.
On May 13 2011 08:34 gn0m wrote:
On May 13 2011 08:30 xarthaz wrote: What a lot of people dont understand is the big skill in the game. SC2 takes totally different and DIFFICULT skills to get good at, which is why imo bw pros havent switched. And paradoxically it also shows the heroism, the mechanical ability of the SC2 top players that remained unappreciated in the BW scene due to it not contributing to game winning.
What type of skill is there in SC2 that is absent in BW?
Top level stim cloning to preserve medivac energy, emp sniping, force field speed casting. all these require insane speed and macro that imo dont get rewarded in bw, because of that the gsl winners were not that good in bw, because their skill didnt get rewarded
They didn't get rewarded because they lacked skill and motivation. For example : MVP. A Woongjin Terran.
Oh please. Action only had decent defiler control in 1 game against flash and he still lost it. hardly remarkable. and while acouple of those guys do good stuff imo marinekings micro is what really makes it shine in sc2 because in sc1 you dont have this dps output to reward pro micro, what im trying to say is the damage is too low. remember, for reaction speed and micro skill to have a large relevance to outcome of battle, the whole battle needs to end relatively quickly which is possuble due to sc2 high dps units, but sc1 units low damage so fight too long and doesnt reward pro micro. this is why micro experts like mvp and nestea didnt get reward they deserved in sc1. sorry but thats how it works
What?
Seriously. Try to understand, SC1 can only control 12 units at a time, and the Unit AI is dumb. While in SC2, you can control a bazillion of units and have smart casting. Medivac micro cant be compared to Medic micro.
If you saw the Action now, every scene on the screen has either a plague or a darkswarm.
On May 13 2011 08:30 xarthaz wrote: What a lot of people dont understand is the big skill in the game. SC2 takes totally different and DIFFICULT skills to get good at, which is why imo bw pros havent switched. And paradoxically it also shows the heroism, the mechanical ability of the SC2 top players that remained unappreciated in the BW scene due to it not contributing to game winning.
What? SC2 has very few skills that you need that you did not need in BW, i actually have trouble naming any off the top of my head.
On May 13 2011 08:34 gn0m wrote:
On May 13 2011 08:30 xarthaz wrote: What a lot of people dont understand is the big skill in the game. SC2 takes totally different and DIFFICULT skills to get good at, which is why imo bw pros havent switched. And paradoxically it also shows the heroism, the mechanical ability of the SC2 top players that remained unappreciated in the BW scene due to it not contributing to game winning.
What type of skill is there in SC2 that is absent in BW?
Top level stim cloning to preserve medivac energy, emp sniping, force field speed casting. all these require insane speed and macro that imo dont get rewarded in bw, because of that the gsl winners were not that good in bw, because their skill didnt get rewarded
They didn't get rewarded because they lacked skill and motivation. For example : MVP. A Woongjin Terran.
Oh please. Action only had decent defiler control in 1 game against flash and he still lost it. hardly remarkable. and while acouple of those guys do good stuff imo marinekings micro is what really makes it shine in sc2 because in sc1 you dont have this dps output to reward pro micro, what im trying to say is the damage is too low. remember, for reaction speed and micro skill to have a large relevance to outcome of battle, the whole battle needs to end relatively quickly which is possuble due to sc2 high dps units, but sc1 units low damage so fight too long and doesnt reward pro micro. this is why micro experts like mvp and nestea didnt get reward they deserved in sc1. sorry but thats how it works
... I cannot believe what I just read. ANY supporter of BW would give up at this point.
lol no .. :D
IMO u just eat lings fast and cast w and g very much but, look in sc2 with marines. they do very fast damage so u gotta micro to make it worth it because they die also.and u can say this worth it or not but its not good valuation so thats why mvp didnt win bw. ok and medics you can spam n barracks because of cheap but medivacs energy problem so must very percise stim cloning n read situation to use effectively. so get this - for micro, it needs positioning element and control. if not working fast, then enemy can adapt, advantage not worth it. so thats high damage -> pro microers, not this bw macro guys win.
On May 13 2011 09:08 MildSeven wrote: This article is pretty ignorant.
It fails to explain the anomalies of his 'theory' that is Nada, July, Boxer, and MVP.
Also, it makes a poor criticism of patching in Starcraft 2, as though patching destabilizes the game. Even brood war I argue could use patches to fix minor bugs or make ZvZ more enticing, etc if not for Blizzard developing team not caring about the older game in favour of developing the balance of newer games. The criticism on patches is stupid as hell basically, patches are there not just to balance, but to fix exploits, bugs etc instead of needing KESPA to tell players not to abuse a certain bug, etc.
The article also brings up certain quotes by players, that should only be taken contextually, but the author makes an effort to manipulate them to support his points.
Bolded: you wouldnt even believe this lashback/shit storm this would cause, especially with Blizzards recent patch history in all their games, I dont want them anywhere near BW.
And as you mentioned that he fails to explain the anomalies, I will have to conclude that you didnt read the article completely, because he does.
One I dont buy this. Two if in fact the staff had a huge internal discussion regarding this post then why have a double standard? If I posted something like this I would be banned for a week. A number of top tier TLers (from BW backgrounds) have said its insulting and inflammatory. If the staff had a "huge internal discussion" then why does the staff seem so divided on this topic. If not divided then why does this "news post" break a number of posting rules that this site lives by.
Maybe Im missing something. Im open to that.
There are plenty of articles spotlighted and in the Final Edits that people aren't always going to agree with.
Intrigue backed up his bold opinions with facts. As a staff writer and veteran of the community, yes of course you get more leeway (lmao, they even mention that in the Commandments!). You get banned for posting silly shit that isn't backed up. That and it helps when people from the community actually know who you are.
If you are a nobody then surely you should be a little more careful. It's good discussion!Just look at how many people are posting with regards to it. I'd say the article did it's job. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it doesn't belong.
To summarize,
It's their house.
Intrigue gets more leeway as a staff member and long time veteran. The staff are allowed to be divided. Controversial issues and debates are allowed as long as you support your claims.
If you will read my previous posts I already commented on the author's attempt at his job. Yes he did it very well. He created a huge flame war between two communities trying to get together. A veritable soup of "BW is better, no SC2 is better!" comments because of his editorial emphasis and poor word choice. My point in saying members of the staff have disagreed was not to bravo the author's skill at making an intelligent article worthy of discussion but to underline the author created a bonfire of bullshit with his wording. If you would care to go back and read my posts on the subject within this thread you would see I have said (a few times) that I don't disagree with the majority of the author's statements. The TONE is completely out of line whether it be a new poster or a long time bonjwa god of these forums.
On May 13 2011 08:30 xarthaz wrote: What a lot of people dont understand is the big skill in the game. SC2 takes totally different and DIFFICULT skills to get good at, which is why imo bw pros havent switched. And paradoxically it also shows the heroism, the mechanical ability of the SC2 top players that remained unappreciated in the BW scene due to it not contributing to game winning.
What? SC2 has very few skills that you need that you did not need in BW, i actually have trouble naming any off the top of my head.
On May 13 2011 08:34 gn0m wrote:
On May 13 2011 08:30 xarthaz wrote: What a lot of people dont understand is the big skill in the game. SC2 takes totally different and DIFFICULT skills to get good at, which is why imo bw pros havent switched. And paradoxically it also shows the heroism, the mechanical ability of the SC2 top players that remained unappreciated in the BW scene due to it not contributing to game winning.
What type of skill is there in SC2 that is absent in BW?
Top level stim cloning to preserve medivac energy, emp sniping, force field speed casting. all these require insane speed and macro that imo dont get rewarded in bw, because of that the gsl winners were not that good in bw, because their skill didnt get rewarded
They didn't get rewarded because they lacked skill and motivation. For example : MVP. A Woongjin Terran.
Oh please. Action only had decent defiler control in 1 game against flash and he still lost it. hardly remarkable. and while acouple of those guys do good stuff imo marinekings micro is what really makes it shine in sc2 because in sc1 you dont have this dps output to reward pro micro, what im trying to say is the damage is too low. remember, for reaction speed and micro skill to have a large relevance to outcome of battle, the whole battle needs to end relatively quickly which is possuble due to sc2 high dps units, but sc1 units low damage so fight too long and doesnt reward pro micro. this is why micro experts like mvp and nestea didnt get reward they deserved in sc1. sorry but thats how it works
And that is just straight up amazing skill. What do you think SC2 is going to be like once people work up to that level of control? Mechanics have only really just started to be hammered out, people are still getting used to warp timings (especially with the patches), larvae usage and injects, what to chrono when, and how to utilize addons. Not to mention people starting to abuse things like Feedback, EMP, using Graviton to pick up Immortals being 250mm'd, Zergling run-bys, Blue Flame Hellion drops, etc.
I'm just sick of seeing BW players saying SC2 will never live up to "their game". I'm sick of SC2 players saying BW is completely outdated and stupid. I think BW and SC2 are both amazing games with different mechanics, and both will continue to prosper for a while. There are skills in both, and yes, the BW players have had 10+ more years to develop theirs, while SC2 is still producing them at an amazing rate.
Hating one or the other is silly, just as silly as any other fanboy argument.
There will never be micro like that in SC2 because of unit bumping and the lack of positional (NOT SMART-CASTED) spells like mines. You can't 2-shot a FF with Stalkers, or go against fungal growth.
On May 13 2011 08:30 xarthaz wrote: What a lot of people dont understand is the big skill in the game. SC2 takes totally different and DIFFICULT skills to get good at, which is why imo bw pros havent switched. And paradoxically it also shows the heroism, the mechanical ability of the SC2 top players that remained unappreciated in the BW scene due to it not contributing to game winning.
What? SC2 has very few skills that you need that you did not need in BW, i actually have trouble naming any off the top of my head.
On May 13 2011 08:34 gn0m wrote:
On May 13 2011 08:30 xarthaz wrote: What a lot of people dont understand is the big skill in the game. SC2 takes totally different and DIFFICULT skills to get good at, which is why imo bw pros havent switched. And paradoxically it also shows the heroism, the mechanical ability of the SC2 top players that remained unappreciated in the BW scene due to it not contributing to game winning.
What type of skill is there in SC2 that is absent in BW?
Top level stim cloning to preserve medivac energy, emp sniping, force field speed casting. all these require insane speed and macro that imo dont get rewarded in bw, because of that the gsl winners were not that good in bw, because their skill didnt get rewarded
They didn't get rewarded because they lacked skill and motivation. For example : MVP. A Woongjin Terran.
Oh please. Action only had decent defiler control in 1 game against flash and he still lost it. hardly remarkable. and while acouple of those guys do good stuff imo marinekings micro is what really makes it shine in sc2 because in sc1 you dont have this dps output to reward pro micro, what im trying to say is the damage is too low. remember, for reaction speed and micro skill to have a large relevance to outcome of battle, the whole battle needs to end relatively quickly which is possuble due to sc2 high dps units, but sc1 units low damage so fight too long and doesnt reward pro micro. this is why micro experts like mvp and nestea didnt get reward they deserved in sc1. sorry but thats how it works
What?
Seriously. Try to understand, SC1 can only control 12 units at a time, and the Unit AI is dumb. While in SC2, you can control a bazillion of units and have smart casting. Medivac micro cant be compared to Medic micro.
If you saw the Action now, every scene on the screen has either a plague or a darkswarm.
On May 13 2011 09:01 Murderotica wrote:
On May 13 2011 08:54 xarthaz wrote:
On May 13 2011 08:50 aimaimaim wrote:
On May 13 2011 08:39 xarthaz wrote:
On May 13 2011 08:32 Seide wrote:
On May 13 2011 08:30 xarthaz wrote: What a lot of people dont understand is the big skill in the game. SC2 takes totally different and DIFFICULT skills to get good at, which is why imo bw pros havent switched. And paradoxically it also shows the heroism, the mechanical ability of the SC2 top players that remained unappreciated in the BW scene due to it not contributing to game winning.
What? SC2 has very few skills that you need that you did not need in BW, i actually have trouble naming any off the top of my head.
On May 13 2011 08:34 gn0m wrote:
On May 13 2011 08:30 xarthaz wrote: What a lot of people dont understand is the big skill in the game. SC2 takes totally different and DIFFICULT skills to get good at, which is why imo bw pros havent switched. And paradoxically it also shows the heroism, the mechanical ability of the SC2 top players that remained unappreciated in the BW scene due to it not contributing to game winning.
What type of skill is there in SC2 that is absent in BW?
Top level stim cloning to preserve medivac energy, emp sniping, force field speed casting. all these require insane speed and macro that imo dont get rewarded in bw, because of that the gsl winners were not that good in bw, because their skill didnt get rewarded
They didn't get rewarded because they lacked skill and motivation. For example : MVP. A Woongjin Terran.
Oh please. Action only had decent defiler control in 1 game against flash and he still lost it. hardly remarkable. and while acouple of those guys do good stuff imo marinekings micro is what really makes it shine in sc2 because in sc1 you dont have this dps output to reward pro micro, what im trying to say is the damage is too low. remember, for reaction speed and micro skill to have a large relevance to outcome of battle, the whole battle needs to end relatively quickly which is possuble due to sc2 high dps units, but sc1 units low damage so fight too long and doesnt reward pro micro. this is why micro experts like mvp and nestea didnt get reward they deserved in sc1. sorry but thats how it works
... I cannot believe what I just read. ANY supporter of BW would give up at this point.
lol no .. :D
IMO u just eat lings fast and cast w and g very much but, look in sc2 with marines. they do very fast damage so u gotta micro to make it worth it because they die also.and u can say this worth it or not but its not good valuation so thats why mvp didnt win bw. ok and medics you can spam n barracks because of cheap but medivacs energy problem so must very percise stim cloning n read situation to use effectively. so get this - for micro, it needs positioning element and control. if not working fast, then enemy can adapt, advantage not worth it. so thats high damage -> pro microers, not this bw macro guys win.
So WC3 is obviously not a micro game then, because its low damage and slow paced. Gotcha. Your argument has more holes in it than swiss cheese man.
On May 13 2011 08:30 xarthaz wrote: What a lot of people dont understand is the big skill in the game. SC2 takes totally different and DIFFICULT skills to get good at, which is why imo bw pros havent switched. And paradoxically it also shows the heroism, the mechanical ability of the SC2 top players that remained unappreciated in the BW scene due to it not contributing to game winning.
What? SC2 has very few skills that you need that you did not need in BW, i actually have trouble naming any off the top of my head.
On May 13 2011 08:34 gn0m wrote:
On May 13 2011 08:30 xarthaz wrote: What a lot of people dont understand is the big skill in the game. SC2 takes totally different and DIFFICULT skills to get good at, which is why imo bw pros havent switched. And paradoxically it also shows the heroism, the mechanical ability of the SC2 top players that remained unappreciated in the BW scene due to it not contributing to game winning.
What type of skill is there in SC2 that is absent in BW?
Top level stim cloning to preserve medivac energy, emp sniping, force field speed casting. all these require insane speed and macro that imo dont get rewarded in bw, because of that the gsl winners were not that good in bw, because their skill didnt get rewarded
They didn't get rewarded because they lacked skill and motivation. For example : MVP. A Woongjin Terran.
Oh please. Action only had decent defiler control in 1 game against flash and he still lost it. hardly remarkable. and while acouple of those guys do good stuff imo marinekings micro is what really makes it shine in sc2 because in sc1 you dont have this dps output to reward pro micro, what im trying to say is the damage is too low. remember, for reaction speed and micro skill to have a large relevance to outcome of battle, the whole battle needs to end relatively quickly which is possuble due to sc2 high dps units, but sc1 units low damage so fight too long and doesnt reward pro micro. this is why micro experts like mvp and nestea didnt get reward they deserved in sc1. sorry but thats how it works
What?
Seriously. Try to understand, SC1 can only control 12 units at a time, and the Unit AI is dumb. While in SC2, you can control a bazillion of units and have smart casting. Medivac micro cant be compared to Medic micro.
If you saw the Action now, every scene on the screen has either a plague or a darkswarm.
On May 13 2011 09:01 Murderotica wrote:
On May 13 2011 08:54 xarthaz wrote:
On May 13 2011 08:50 aimaimaim wrote:
On May 13 2011 08:39 xarthaz wrote:
On May 13 2011 08:32 Seide wrote:
On May 13 2011 08:30 xarthaz wrote: What a lot of people dont understand is the big skill in the game. SC2 takes totally different and DIFFICULT skills to get good at, which is why imo bw pros havent switched. And paradoxically it also shows the heroism, the mechanical ability of the SC2 top players that remained unappreciated in the BW scene due to it not contributing to game winning.
What? SC2 has very few skills that you need that you did not need in BW, i actually have trouble naming any off the top of my head.
On May 13 2011 08:34 gn0m wrote:
On May 13 2011 08:30 xarthaz wrote: What a lot of people dont understand is the big skill in the game. SC2 takes totally different and DIFFICULT skills to get good at, which is why imo bw pros havent switched. And paradoxically it also shows the heroism, the mechanical ability of the SC2 top players that remained unappreciated in the BW scene due to it not contributing to game winning.
What type of skill is there in SC2 that is absent in BW?
Top level stim cloning to preserve medivac energy, emp sniping, force field speed casting. all these require insane speed and macro that imo dont get rewarded in bw, because of that the gsl winners were not that good in bw, because their skill didnt get rewarded
They didn't get rewarded because they lacked skill and motivation. For example : MVP. A Woongjin Terran.
Oh please. Action only had decent defiler control in 1 game against flash and he still lost it. hardly remarkable. and while acouple of those guys do good stuff imo marinekings micro is what really makes it shine in sc2 because in sc1 you dont have this dps output to reward pro micro, what im trying to say is the damage is too low. remember, for reaction speed and micro skill to have a large relevance to outcome of battle, the whole battle needs to end relatively quickly which is possuble due to sc2 high dps units, but sc1 units low damage so fight too long and doesnt reward pro micro. this is why micro experts like mvp and nestea didnt get reward they deserved in sc1. sorry but thats how it works
... I cannot believe what I just read. ANY supporter of BW would give up at this point.
lol no .. :D
IMO u just eat lings fast and cast w and g very much but, look in sc2 with marines. they do very fast damage so u gotta micro to make it worth it because they die also.and u can say this worth it or not but its not good valuation so thats why mvp didnt win bw. ok and medics you can spam n barracks because of cheap but medivacs energy problem so must very percise stim cloning n read situation to use effectively. so get this - for micro, it needs positioning element and control. if not working fast, then enemy can adapt, advantage not worth it. so thats high damage -> pro microers, not this bw macro guys win.
Ok .. now I give up. Believe what you want o believe, idc.
EPT
. If HotS or LotV were to improve the gameplay and spectator experience, i will be sure to follow SC2 closely ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/R1CH/Happy2.gif)
