Unfortuntely I don't have any new images of the ones we don't already have. But I do have the names and some description... I'll update the images as I find them.
10th GOMTV MSL
(3)Longinus 2
- Out of the 10 minerals in each main, 1 now only has 500. This is so that players can have a strong start with the power of 10 minerals, but later on it decreases to 9. - Expansions at 12,9,5 now have 2 gasses with 2500 each. - Some trees in the middle.
(2)Blitz X
- Added ramp at the middle expansions that leads to middle "hills". - Gas expansions at 5 and 7 are now on ground level. And a route has been added connecting the two expansions from 6. Mineral only expansion moved on cliff level. - Minerals at middle changed to "X" formation. (middle mineral 32, the rest 40) - Island expansion now has 1 gas. More dangerously positioned. - A small opening has been created at the center. The mini-ramps on both sides have been eliminated. (Unit size up to Dark Templars can pass. Minerals are difficult to mine out)
(3)Desert Fox
- Main has 10 minerals. Nat is connected to main, giving plenty of resources. - Neutral buildings blocking nat has 2000 HP. Nat is covered with creep, making it easier for zerg's to expand. - The road behind the nat is blocked by 8 minerals, each 800. - At 1,5, and 9 exists islands that are easy to defend, and hard to harrass.
ShinHan Season 3 OSL
(4)Neo Arkanoid
- Main minerals have increased to 10, giving P and T more options.
(4)Reverse Temple
- Created based on the public map "Lost Temple". Map is "reversed". Main is on ground level and the rest is on higher level. - For balance issues, small mineral patches have been added to each nat. The ramps have been positioned evenly, and a neutral building is at the center (don't know what "balance issues" this solves)
(2)Hitch Hiker (Thx to anyname)
- Doesn't have many resources at the beginning, and the design makes it easy for harrassments. Expected to replace Sin Peaks of Baekdu.
On November 28 2006 20:56 Last Romantic wrote: Main has 8 patches, nat has seven patches. There's one thin ground path that goes from main to main on lower ground. You have ground access to your min only and one gas expo, but you can break through various buildings - 800 hp buildings to another gas expo, 5000 hp temples to get to enemy main.
Extra buildings are there to make attack paths shorter, things like that.
The "shared maps" have been chosen to be Reverse Temple, and Longinus 2.
I've played Desert Fox once. It seems like an interesting map. I have my ideas of how to play it, but I really would like to see what the pros come up with.
Why the fuck would they get rid of Peaks, a concept map that actually become balanced after only one bad season, and replace with that piece of shit Reverse Temple, which at a simple first glance looks to be unbelievably imbalanced.
edit: Arcadia was starting to get imbalanced P>T Z>>T but P = Z, so its time was up. They had better not be getting rid of Tau Cross, a map that was actually balanced and could possibly replace Luna as the "Map-Franca"
Desert Fox is a god-awful map. I honestly don't know how anyone but a Terran will ever win there.
Terrans can actually expand before any of the other races just by floating their barracks, making two marines, killing the creep colony, and then floating a CC from their main. So the neutral buildings, designed to help out the other races, actually end up hurting them. Then there's the cliff above the natural, the relative lack of gas without acquiring drop, the siegable mineral-only...
So the new 2 maps will replace arcadia and peaks of beakdu right ? Old maps Arcadia II and Peaks were made balanced and we had a season of MSL/OSL with perfect maps not like the previous one with 815 or Cultivation Period ... btw i dont like desert fox ! btw anyone knows smth about new wcg maps ?
I love how new maptricks are used to solve balance issues like the creep at the nats in desert fox. Also lovely how minerals can be used to get a pathway with an exact size, which is much more accurate than using terrain for such purposes<3
I think I also prefer last season's maps. I don't like the new Blitz as much and RLT looks ugly. I dunno Hitch Hiker so I can't comment on it. Desert Fox looks interesting. Longinus should not be a shared map IMO...I'd rather have it dropped and keep Peaks. Arkanoid is a map I kind of like and the balance isn't terrible.
Looking at desert fox right now isn't pleasing. Looks even worse than Peaks. At least toss had an even go at zerg on peaks.
I don't know, we'll see how it plays out but it seems toss is forced into a harassment strat on fox because of the complete bum raping they'll have in expansion opportunities.
dammit as soon as we get a season with decent maps they have to ruin it immediately, should have remove the shit araknoid instead =( and reverse temple do look like a a lame requiem
On November 27 2006 14:15 thedeadhaji wrote: aw, most balanced map (statistically) is gone
Which was it?
On November 27 2006 13:56 DJEtterStyle wrote: Desert Fox is a god-awful map. I honestly don't know how anyone but a Terran will ever win there.
Terrans can actually expand before any of the other races just by floating their barracks, making two marines, killing the creep colony, and then floating a CC from their main. So the neutral buildings, designed to help out the other races, actually end up hurting them. Then there's the cliff above the natural, the relative lack of gas without acquiring drop, the siegable mineral-only... URGH.
I am so so sad to see Peaks go. It was one of my favorite new maps in a long time. Rest in Peace Baekdu San. I can't believe they keep arkanoid... gay. And Dsert Fox looks gay.
REVERSE TEMPLE! They finally fix 12 o clock's min. 3's Min. All nat patches are re-exposed to "cliffing" not like that weak sauce 2.4 where you can only half cliff. I don't care what you guys say, but given how amazing temple is even without balance... Reverse temple is looking awesome. 6 and 12 have better mineral naturals though.... Center building death = no more unit clutter in dead center like LT
lol 12v3 LT again lol awww yeah. Pro gaming 12 v 3.
Can someone please upload all the maps when they're released? I already have the first three (Blitz, Longinus, and Desert Fox), but I'm missing the last two.
LOL! LT wasn't terranfriendly enough, so they made siegetanks even better. It's requiem but with less options for P and Z.
Arkanoid fucking sucks. It's just plain godawful and boring.
Blitz seemed to have balanceissues the first season, and now it may be more balanced, but less fun.
Desert fox again look like another godawful map.
Longinus looks fine I guess still.
They're replacing a decent map like Tau Cross with DF or RT? Okay, I can see that the new peaks has played out it's role, but it provided some decent games as well.
On November 27 2006 15:58 mahnini wrote: July is going to have one hell of a time with the naturals on Reverse Temple.
To me it looks like one huge imba waiting to happen, interesting to see how pros adapt.
Yea, I also wondered why they decided to do the naturals in the old LT style with it up against the cliffs rather than the updated LT. That can't help balance any.
lol that reverse lost temple 6 v 9 looks like you can gay the shit out of someone with terran and siege tanks on the cliff into the main, looks kind of the same with 12 and 3 too although nto as bad, funny that 6 and 12's 2nd nats cant be cliffed though,
reverse lost temple honestly is a gay concept anyway
On November 27 2006 17:17 Live2Win wrote: how would you drone jump on desert fox?
take 3 drones to the neutral building click on the minerals on the other side and hit stop. Same with scv while making depo once it gets to a certain point hit stop to it "floats" past the building. Manner pylon same way.
On November 27 2006 17:33 Sadist wrote: lol that reverse lost temple 6 v 9 looks like you can gay the shit out of someone with terran and siege tanks on the cliff into the main, looks kind of the same with 12 and 3 too although nto as bad, funny that 6 and 12's 2nd nats cant be cliffed though,
reverse lost temple honestly is a gay concept anyway
lost temple however, OWNS
You could do the same thing in 6 vs 9 with tanks on normal temple, just adding a floating ebay or whatever, it would kill a lot of noobs who didnt prepare for it.
On November 27 2006 17:33 Sadist wrote: lol that reverse lost temple 6 v 9 looks like you can gay the shit out of someone with terran and siege tanks on the cliff into the main, looks kind of the same with 12 and 3 too although nto as bad, funny that 6 and 12's 2nd nats cant be cliffed though,
reverse lost temple honestly is a gay concept anyway
lost temple however, OWNS
You could do the same thing in 6 vs 9 with tanks on normal temple, just adding a floating ebay or whatever, it would kill a lot of noobs who didnt prepare for it.
None of the better players ever did it.
the difference is y ou were on low ground there, high ground gives you a bigger advantage, you wont even need an ebay.
And good players did it a long tim eago, and then it stopped because protoss players figured out how to stop it with goons and such, and tvt it still worked just not early game
I don't understand why they changed the mineral expansion only location, yet kept the major positional imbalances. With the old LT there was issues with ramps since they could only face two directions. With this remedied, I don't get it why they don't just mirror 12 and 6 "correctly".
Perhaps they think it's more fun if game are decided due to positional and racial imbalances instead of skill, but I surely don't. It's not like it's a casual pub map anymore.
On November 27 2006 17:56 Luhh wrote: I don't understand why they changed the mineral expansion only location, yet kept the major positional imbalances. With the old LT there was issues with ramps since they could only face two directions. With this remedied, I don't get it why they don't just mirror 12 and 6 "correctly".
Perhaps they think it's more fun if game are decided due to positional and racial imbalances instead of skill, but I surely don't. It's not like it's a casual pub map anymore.
its not always decided due to positional imbalance, it just dictates how you play sort of and that can be fun.
fuck it, balance maps tau cross and peak gone replaced by the gay reverse temple. why use position imba and race imba map???? reverse temple is better on lt, but 12v3 is still fucking imba and whole cliffable nat just gay we need koreans to write to ogn and mbc!!!! arkanoid make every mu look like zvz, so opening dependent + zvz is fucking boring with no ling and 100% same tech it needs to go too desert fox dunno, maybe some new concept i don't feel bad when arcadia gone, this map is ok at pro level but at pub level, just promote camping mass whore
both desert fox and arkanoid should be banned from playing at all in any tournaments, however the improvements on the other maps, mostly on blitz and reversed LT are great.
What's bugging me is ppl on tl.net keeps repeating again and again about what the others above them said. I'm even wondering if ppl did read the whole thread before posting... I mean, OKAAAAAAY we understood that RLT is imbalanced, no need to keep agreeing with more or less the same argues.. :x Same with Peak of baek du, or Tau Cross... I know stastically those map were fairly balanced but NO NEED to cry more than the already crying ones above T_T
I'm tired sorry if you felt offended, but i had to say it... ㅠ_ㅠ
It was to prevent the whole thread being useless with the same sentences... I'm just tired to read the whole thread without reading something more interesting than the first posters...
On November 27 2006 19:22 TaDa1. wrote: fuck it, balance maps tau cross and peak gone replaced by the gay reverse temple. why use position imba and race imba map???? reverse temple is better on lt, but 12v3 is still fucking imba and whole cliffable nat just gay we need koreans to write to ogn and mbc!!!! arkanoid make every mu look like zvz, so opening dependent + zvz is fucking boring with no ling and 100% same tech it needs to go too desert fox dunno, maybe some new concept i don't feel bad when arcadia gone, this map is ok at pro level but at pub level, just promote camping mass whore
cliffable nats are good, fast expo should have some sort of risk factor
arkanoid should be removed and peaks and tau cross definitely need to be kept -_-. tau cross more so than peaks since peaks has some severe pvt imbalance. and arkanoid is just boring.
okay so i'm either an idiot or a douchebag or both for asking, but is has reverse temple been posted for download yet? i have the msl ones that manifesto7 shared but i'm dying to play that one map
I wish they would get rid of Arkanoid instead of Peaks. Games on Arkanoid are always so boring because everyone double expands. The new Peaks on the other hand is pretty cool.
Main has 8 patches, nat has seven patches. There's one thin ground path that goes from main to main on lower ground. You have ground access to your min only and one gas expo, but you can break through various buildings - 800 hp buildings to another gas expo, 5000 hp temples to get to enemy main.
Extra buildings are there to make attack paths shorter, things like that.
That's the map AFAIK.
It actually looks pretty cool, the center design on low ground and all. And it'll change as the game goes on. Like sin pioneering, but better. I look forward to this map.
edit: If I have anything to comment on - needs better name than hitchhiker. And if possible, less snow... the center kinda hurts the eyes from the image, maybe it's better in game.
I swear, this map had already been played somewhere else... Must have something to do with wgt or maybe they've already played this map on leagues ? Pretty sure some progamers played this map. I especially remember some z like yellow or chojja getting pwned their expansions by some gays tanks from the lower ground... I don't remember exactly the details but well... Must be an old school map at least.
HItchHiker looks brilliant ) I want to play this map. It looks pretty hard for TvZ IMO, but in TvP if Terran slowpushes + expands, Toss would not have any other choice than going carriers.
Yeah, I agree that it looks terran-ish, since tanks are going to be very powerful, and it's fairly closed-in. Z gets screwed pretty badly - not so badly as on DFox, but eh.
Dfox/hitchhiker - anti savior conspiracy? XD Ah well, not so bad as NFZ/Nostalgia/Uboat/thatothercrapyellowdealtwith. And as a Z, I'm still looking forward to gaming on this map.
Can someone explain how reverse temple is worse than regular LT for PvT? I understand the min placement at the natural is fucked up, but other than that? (12v3 was always fucked up, I guess now, 3v12 is the one that's fucked up)
I think it's much theory. At first glance, it looks imbalanced. But they chose it as the share map because it was well balanced... let's hope they're right.
Hitch Hiker is very hard pvt... joyo is very hard to stop there, because the central path is very cramped... i played this the most out of the beta maps (which were around this time last year) and its kinda interesting.. can do some crazy proxy shit as well.. but primarily the hardest thing to stop was the 2fac joyo style push.. iono it just seemed very terran friendly imo... i think i can dig up hitchiker 0.90 if people are interested
oh and a quick note about the imbalance of reverse temple...
i say, bring back the interesting maps, with the imbalances, interesting concepts and designs make games more interesting and less predictable... i mean, look at tau cross, generic and balanced... whereas look at cultivation period, dynamic and imbalanced... cultivation lead towards more interesting games and new forms of gameplay had to be developed to cope, creating more diversity in our beloved game.. so then we come to reverse temple... balanced? that could be argued either way.. the positional supposed imbalances creates different styles of gameplay for each position.. i beleive the nesxt step will be to create a 3 player map with 3 completely different concepts for each of the possible starting location combinations (ie, lets say the positions are 11, 3 and 7... the terrain between 3 and 7 is different from 7 to 11, and different from 3 to 11...). imagine this! so many different combinations for play, imabalances? probably, cut you can design each different environment to be balanced for one particular mu or sumthing like that..
so to sum up, i guess, imbalances make the game fun serious imbalances just ruin it for everyone
I don't understand why they didn't reverse 12 too while they were at it reversing everything else on that map. Also, the fact that you can still gully push 6 vs 9 is just gay. They should replace the high groud between those two mains with water. I'm still thrilled to see temple return to progaming. Cliff abuse yum!
There have been several threads about map statistics. None of them really complete, does anyone know if there are ALL time OSL/MSL, or even proleague map statistics. I think it would be interesting to know whats the most balanced map used at pro level at some point.
(while I was searching around I found this, which is funny cause statistically paradoxxx II is perfectly balanced.)
On November 29 2006 06:36 Danka wrote: There have been several threads about map statistics. None of them really complete, does anyone know if there are ALL time OSL/MSL, or even proleague map statistics. I think it would be interesting to know whats the most balanced map used at pro level at some point.
(while I was searching around I found this, which is funny cause statistically paradoxxx II is perfectly balanced.)
These stats mean it is NOT balanced at all, because Protoss rapes Zerg(3 to 1 ratio), Terran rapes Protoss(2 to 1 ratio) and Zerg rapes Terran(2 to 1 ratio).
On November 28 2006 23:03 Plexa wrote: i beleive the nesxt step will be to create a 3 player map with 3 completely different concepts for each of the possible starting location combinations
Yeah, i though of something like this a while ago, but i somehow concluded that although it may create different styles, it would force some mach ups to be played always the same, if not the imbalance would be too much. IE, having a main with normal ramp and another one with big ramp (like luna, or even bigger) would force a defensive early game by the one with bigger ramp in certain mu. Still, it is something that has to be tested to actually be proved...
what's up with these three player maps? i mean they're really nice for 1vs1 but i'm a 2vs2 fan and blehhhhh. also, i hate all this neutral building nonsense. please make a four player interesting map! peaks of baekdu was the only map last season that really struck me as SICKNASTY but it was two player (i really wanted to see what a four player version of this would look like, it'd probably have to be 192x192) and so far i think the one for this season is reverse temple which is, thank goodness, four player. i played a few 2vs2s on it and wowwwww, god i love it! really, really interesting.
On November 28 2006 23:03 Plexa wrote: oh and a quick note about the imbalance of reverse temple...
i say, bring back the interesting maps, with the imbalances, interesting concepts and designs make games more interesting and less predictable... i mean, look at tau cross, generic and balanced... whereas look at cultivation period, dynamic and imbalanced... cultivation lead towards more interesting games and new forms of gameplay had to be developed to cope, creating more diversity in our beloved game.. so then we come to reverse temple... balanced? that could be argued either way.. the positional supposed imbalances creates different styles of gameplay for each position.. i beleive the nesxt step will be to create a 3 player map with 3 completely different concepts for each of the possible starting location combinations (ie, lets say the positions are 11, 3 and 7... the terrain between 3 and 7 is different from 7 to 11, and different from 3 to 11...). imagine this! so many different combinations for play, imabalances? probably, cut you can design each different environment to be balanced for one particular mu or sumthing like that..
so to sum up, i guess, imbalances make the game fun serious imbalances just ruin it for everyone
and position imbalance isn't only about forcing players into different play styles, it forces players to fight up hill battles. ie, they're start off at a disadvantage solely dependent on dumb luck on which position they start at. that does not make the game fun. Players should be getting ahead or winning games on their play, and not because they started at a better position than their opponent. I don't care about racial balance on maps as long as they don't approach impossibility/severe difficulty, but positional imbalance is just dumb
Can anyone help me???? Every time I try to download a map of some kind it gets converted to a notepad document and instead of becomming a a folder with maps it gets converted into a word document that I can't even open.
On November 27 2006 19:22 TaDa1. wrote: fuck it, balance maps tau cross and peak gone replaced by the gay reverse temple. why use position imba and race imba map???? reverse temple is better on lt, but 12v3 is still fucking imba and whole cliffable nat just gay we need koreans to write to ogn and mbc!!!! arkanoid make every mu look like zvz, so opening dependent + zvz is fucking boring with no ling and 100% same tech it needs to go too desert fox dunno, maybe some new concept i don't feel bad when arcadia gone, this map is ok at pro level but at pub level, just promote camping mass whore
I was reading this thread, but I had to stop to comment on this. Do you really think this is an acceptable use of language? All you did was repeat what everyone had said but made it much harder to read. I spent way too much effort trying to understand this post for the amount of original thought that's in it. This isn't a collegiate essay, you don't have to use proper caps and punctuation, but some sentences do actually need the word "is."
I won't mind/care if you don't change the way you type, I just had to tell you.
reverse lt seems like a pretty good protoss map. played it a bit and 2 gate zeal seems pretty strong vs any matchup.
tvp: i doubt t>p...t has a lot of trouble securing expo and stopping early p contain/harass. a couple zeals and 2 gate range goon leaves t with little option except for seige + starport or seige + expo.
zvt: seems ok (havent tested it yet), but on first glance seems like aggressive july style 2 hat ling lurk will do well.
zvp: 2 gate zeal will do a number on zerg... =( fast expoing is prob not a good option, leaving some variations of 1 base zerg. good to see zerg going back to low econ style =)
in general, i think its a good step to go back to cliffable/harassable maps.. it makes for GGs. enough of the rush hours and lunas. hopefully we will see rlt gain popularity on bnet.
If any of you remember what Nada used to do to everybody on regular LT (especially protoss) then you will realize that reversed temple is probably going to be a terran map. super macro terrans on a map where taking hold of the mid basically means gg. Also the tank drops are gonna be a problem for toss too, atleast the tanks will be on the low ground rather then the high over the natural.
hopefully someone comes here soon, because then it woudl proove tha making a new thread for subjects like this is the only way to actually get a "yes" or "no" i dont know or do know.
If you happen to have any replays on any of those you can just use Rexplorer to extract the map from the replay. I would do it, but Rexplorer doesn't really work for me somehow.
On November 28 2006 23:03 Plexa wrote: i beleive the nesxt step will be to create a 3 player map with 3 completely different concepts for each of the possible starting location combinations
Yeah, i though of something like this a while ago, but i somehow concluded that although it may create different styles, it would force some mach ups to be played always the same, if not the imbalance would be too much. IE, having a main with normal ramp and another one with big ramp (like luna, or even bigger) would force a defensive early game by the one with bigger ramp in certain mu. Still, it is something that has to be tested to actually be proved...
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.intothemap.com/bbs/data/opentest/10th_longi192.gif)
![[image loading]](http://www.intothemap.com/bbs/data/opentest/1164535220/10th_blitzx190.gif)
![[image loading]](http://www.intothemap.com/bbs/data/opentest/10th_fox092.gif)
![[image loading]](http://www.mapdori.com/map_images/(4)Neo%20Arkanoid%202.0.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://image.fighterforum.com/showImage.asp?realFile=FFNEWS20061127172611001.JPG)
![[image loading]](http://www.mapdori.com/map_images/(2)Hitchhiker%201.0.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/5623/reversetemplelolnw0.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgnews.naver.com/image/117/2006/10/23/200610231226123350_2.jpg)
