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Rolltide
United States447 Posts
At this point I just want Classic, Rogue, sOs, or Maru to kick ByuN out of the top 8 lol. Any of them basically need to win a tournament Maru and Classic are already out of GSL so that is not going to happen for them. Solar is ranked right behind Byun at 9th and he plays SoS so if you want Byun supplanted cheer for him. Byun has a tough draw with Innovation but the rd of 8 is always tough for everybody. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On August 24 2017 23:32 Rolltide wrote: So Zest always loses to that scrub Creator anyway so it's ok? He's still poised for a great year? He failed to qualify for GSL after being eliminated in the rd of 32 2X. He was 1-9 in SSL season 2 challenge and lost 3 of 4 matches in season 2 by a 0-2 score. Keep on talking about what a beast he is on ladder because that and $5 will buy him a coffee at Starbucks. Chill out man, no ones saying he's doing amazing this year. Just that losing to Creator isn't a new low for him. | ||
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Vutalisk
United States680 Posts
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highsis
259 Posts
Funny how his offline results don't reflect his ladder skills. | ||
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Jan1997
Norway671 Posts
Which leads me to the following question. Do most players play differently from ladder to tournaments? Like, does rogue play different builds on ladder vs tournament games? I don't watch enough to have an answer myself, so I ask the rest of you. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On August 26 2017 01:32 Jan1997 wrote: It's perfectly normal to be unable to play at peak performance constantly but with his ladder performance being as good as it is I don't understand this struggle he has. Which leads me to the following question. Do most players play differently from ladder to tournaments? Like, does rogue play different builds on ladder vs tournament games? I don't watch enough to have an answer myself, so I ask the rest of you. Well I think one factor is just a lack of offline events to him to show up for. Since his "return" to good form he's only played in SSL challenge. And I wouldn't judge him heavily seeing how he only got to play 2 matches in it anyway (Rogue and ByuN), and he was was already eliminated before the ByuN match so I doubt he practiced that hard for it (and it was played on non-ladder maps as well). If he was in his current form at the start of SSL S2/GSL S3 I think we'd be seeing more success. Now he just has to wait for the next big event | ||
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Vutalisk
United States680 Posts
On August 26 2017 01:32 Jan1997 wrote: It's perfectly normal to be unable to play at peak performance constantly but with his ladder performance being as good as it is I don't understand this struggle he has. Which leads me to the following question. Do most players play differently from ladder to tournaments? Like, does rogue play different builds on ladder vs tournament games? I don't watch enough to have an answer myself, so I ask the rest of you. For me personally, the result on the ladder is not always a good indicator of how good a player's form is because you play at home in your own comfort zone, no pressure whatsoever, win or lose doesn't matter much. At an offline event, there are audience, money and pride involved. Sometimes it can affect negatively on the players. Also, of course, players tend to hide builds so they will never show them on the ladder or only show some stripped-down versions. So, they may be caught off-guard by some weird builds (from sOs for example). I hesitate to say if Zest is really back or not until he produces some consistent results at offline events. Unfortunately, there are not many left this year. Basically Super Tournament #2 (if he qualifies for it) is the last one. His SSL result is poor but then some players play well at GSL but not SSL or vice versa. Zest tends to be a GSL/IEM kind of a guy. He never has a good result at SSL anyway. So, I wouldn't judge him solely on that. Still, the point is he is doing well in ladder so it means at least he can play well. It would be terrible if he couldn't play well at either offline or online. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On August 26 2017 01:32 Jan1997 wrote: It's perfectly normal to be unable to play at peak performance constantly but with his ladder performance being as good as it is I don't understand this struggle he has. Which leads me to the following question. Do most players play differently from ladder to tournaments? Like, does rogue play different builds on ladder vs tournament games? I don't watch enough to have an answer myself, so I ask the rest of you. Short answer: Yes. Long answer: Progamers use the ladder to practice fundamentals. In offline tournaments, the players know the map/opponent beforehand and so have the luxury of playing preplanned, custom-crafted builds that exploit the map/opponent in question (if they so choose and have prepared such builds). The amount of preparation obviously increases with the stakes of the specific match; GSL finals for example are far more intensively prepared for than some random online cup, which is the big reason why offline results count for far more than online ones, and extrapolating, why Starleagues count for more than weekenders. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On August 26 2017 01:32 Jan1997 wrote: It's perfectly normal to be unable to play at peak performance constantly but with his ladder performance being as good as it is I don't understand this struggle he has. Which leads me to the following question. Do most players play differently from ladder to tournaments? Like, does rogue play different builds on ladder vs tournament games? I don't watch enough to have an answer myself, so I ask the rest of you. Short answer: Yes. Long answer: Progamers use the ladder to practice fundamentals. In offline tournaments, the players know the map/opponent beforehand and so have the luxury of playing preplanned, custom-crafted builds that exploit the map/opponent in question (if they so choose and have prepared such builds). The amount of preparation obviously increases with the stakes of the specific match; GSL finals for example are far more intensively prepared for than some random online cup, which is the big reason why offline results count for far more than online ones, and extrapolating, why Starleagues count for more than weekenders. It's the difference between queuing up for a game/starting your preparations while the game loads vs playing hundreds of custom games with practice partners playing specific styles on that same map beforehand. Also, the mental game plays a far, far larger role in offline tournaments than on the ladder. | ||
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Lil_nooblet
United States459 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On August 26 2017 04:21 Lil_nooblet wrote: Offline matches are definitely different but there is still some correlation to the players at the top of the ladder and how they play offline. Before Rogue won iem he was destroying the ladder. There's correlation for sure, but it's by no means a biconditional. The GSL champion for instance, is almost certainly going to be at/near the top of the ladder. But the converse is another story entirely; #1 ladder doesn't say very much about a player's ability to win GSL. | ||
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Sakat
Croatia1599 Posts
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Lil_nooblet
United States459 Posts
On August 26 2017 04:33 pvsnp wrote: There's correlation for sure, but it's by no means a biconditional. The GSL champion for instance, is almost certainly going to be at/near the top of the ladder. But the converse is another story entirely; #1 ladder doesn't say very much about a player's ability to win GSL. I kind of agree that it doesn't say much about about if a player will win gsl since the tournament is so brutal and winning it depends on a lot of factors but I think if you can hit #1 or close to it for a long stretch of time it does show that they should be a strong contender for any tournament they enter and they should at least be able to show strong games. | ||
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bestiszest
France103 Posts
TY mentionned Zest too after getting 1st place in his GSL group. Apparently he is his go to guy when he needs to practice TvP. | ||
Olli
Austria24422 Posts
Especially nowadays when team houses are no more, but even back when they existed, lots of players just laddered to prepare for tournaments. It's not actually true that people play custom games to prepare for tournaments, even early rounds of GSL - most just play ladder. Rogue's Ro16 practice was laddering. That's mostly true for later rounds of Korean individual leagues, and even then some don't. | ||
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Sakat
Croatia1599 Posts
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
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Rolltide
United States447 Posts
Rds 16 on in season 1 GSL 2016 were played in April of that year. Zest blitzed trough the opposition like the Nazi's went through Poland in 1939. He was 2-0 in group not losing a map. He beat Taeja 3-1 in the rd of 8, Dear 4-0 and TY 4-2. 15-3 in maps. One of the most dominant performances in the history of SC2! A year later Zest is playing In SSL season 1 premier. 9 weeks of qualifiers(March-May) where a group of 10 players, matches against every other player one time. Matches(Best of 3) played every week. Zest's record 1-8. His record in maps was 7-18. What a contrast. How many 0-2 matches did Zest have this year? It is astounding. Then you have the struggles, the losses to seemingly lessor players. Losses to the kind of players who in the past were not worthy of cleaning his sneakers. It's been a tough year. | ||
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Sakat
Croatia1599 Posts
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