EPTZest Fan Club - Page 197
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Jan1997
Norway671 Posts
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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Jan1997
Norway671 Posts
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Rolltide
United States447 Posts
Archons are easy to micro with. | ||
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Rolltide
United States447 Posts
He falls to the losers bracket right away in rd 1 by losing to Bly 2-1. How does that happen? Then he beats Alive 2-0 in that bracket. Proceeds with 2-0 victories over Harstem and Reynor but then is eliminated by Nerchio 2-1. For comparison purposes Nerchio was in the losers bracket because he lost to Neeb 2-1. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On August 28 2017 03:22 Rolltide wrote: If you want an idea where Zest is at right now look at the Gosu PvP cup. A tiny mixed tournament money wise but a good one with many good Korean and circuit players. He falls to the losers bracket right away in rd 1 by losing to Bly 2-1. How does that happen? Then he beats Alive 2-0 in that bracket. Proceeds with 2-0 victories over Harstem and Reynor but then is eliminated by Nerchio 2-1. For comparison purposes Nerchio was in the losers bracket because he lost to Neeb 2-1. Gosu said himself that the Koreans were playing with terrible latency. Also finals just finished at 3:30 AM in Korea. It's for reasons like this that online results matter way less than offline. If Zest played horribly in GSL, then that's terrible. If he plays horribly in some random online cup then, meh oh well. Super Tournament is the only place left where we can accurately gauge Zest's form. Maybe he really is trash. Maybe not. | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
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Rolltide
United States447 Posts
Rogue is supposed to be in beast mode now right? He just won a group of terror Zergs in GSL where SoO was eliminated and he and Dark moved on. It looks like he might be a favorite to win GSL season 3. He also played fantastic in that shoutcast king of the hill thing which was fun. But then the other side of the coin. He was bounced from Master's Coliseum early with 3-1 losses to SoO and Byun. In SSL challenge he has been horrible so far he is in last place 0-2 and 1-6 in maps. Those 2 matches played on the 24th and 26th this month so very current. He lost 3-0 to SoO and 3-1 to Bunny. Isn't this the nature of Korean Starcraft? Every guy you play is so good you can't dominate all the time? Nobody wins GSL and SSLin overlaping seasons. Last year Zest failed to even qualify for SSL season 1 but then he destroys everyone in GSL season one. | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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Jan1997
Norway671 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Also remember that any top korean player with a 70% winrate in a matchup is considered very good. But you still can't win everything with a 70% winrate | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On August 29 2017 02:38 Jan1997 wrote: I agree that Zest is doing good on ladder. I do feel the need to point out though the he seems to be struggling vs soo on ladder. He lost like three games in a row vs him and it was pretty much just soo rolling zest with roach,ravager,lurker. It was sad to watch tbh That means very little. He beat soO in a showmatch Bo7 just a week ago, and quite regularly beats soO on ladder. Losing three games in a row means very little. That said, soO is very good. | ||
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ghostmaster93
155 Posts
On August 28 2017 23:09 Rolltide wrote: Somebody help me here understand this issue of current form. Not trying to be a dick I just don't buy into it. Rogue is supposed to be in beast mode now right? He just won a group of terror Zergs in GSL where SoO was eliminated and he and Dark moved on. It looks like he might be a favorite to win GSL season 3. He also played fantastic in that shoutcast king of the hill thing which was fun. But then the other side of the coin. He was bounced from Master's Coliseum early with 3-1 losses to SoO and Byun. In SSL challenge he has been horrible so far he is in last place 0-2 and 1-6 in maps. Those 2 matches played on the 24th and 26th this month so very current. He lost 3-0 to SoO and 3-1 to Bunny. Isn't this the nature of Korean Starcraft? Every guy you play is so good you can't dominate all the time? Nobody wins GSL and SSLin overlaping seasons. Last year Zest failed to even qualify for SSL season 1 but then he destroys everyone in GSL season one. When it come to a player's offline results, I think there are many factors contribute: - Offline vs online: Someone's answer above has mentioned when you are competing offline, the pressure is much higher, therefore you need to have strong mental ability. An example here is Byun before his GSL season 2 2016's break out, great online but terrible offline results. - Tournament format: Different tournaments require different preparations. When you prepare for round robin in SSL, you are going against only 1 player. The story is different when preparing for GSL group stage, when you have at least 2 opponent ahead of you, meaning at least double of homeworks. Not only that, you need to identify your position. For example in GSL round of 16, sometime position 2 is much more comfortable than position 1. - Tournament priority: You can see Rogue's example here. He now in SSL Challenge (offer no point) and GSL (with higher point earning each round forwards). His current target is Blizzcon, he need to get every points as possible. If the schedule is tight, undoubtly, he will focus on preparing for GSL. Also, sometime player try to hide their strategy for some match up and use his normal builds, which make them more vulnerable. - Match - up: Usually a player considered to have great form when he has great winrate at least in 2 match - up. For single elimination tournament, if you have bracket favour your strong match up, you have higher chance to get good results. Great example here is Neeb last year's Kepspa cup, when his bracket mostly PvP. - Tactic in match/sets: Will you finish game late or early? Go attack early or wait to counter? Micro hay macro? If you understand perfectly your opponent's strength and make that useless, you are half way to the win. For instance, soO vs sOs in GSL season 1 semifinals. sOs at that time was considered to have perfect way to ultilize adepts in early games, but it's become nothing in front of soO. Then the final, Stats use adepts perfectly to counter soO's defense. As an audience, I believe the above points is just part of constrains an programmer deal on stage and off stage, therefore make conversion from great online records to offline success hard job to do. | ||
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Lil_nooblet
United States459 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
This is his one last chance for 2017 to make something happen on the big stage. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On August 29 2017 11:35 Lil_nooblet wrote: Zest just bopped Inno 2-0 in ballistix brawl Inno's TvP isn't his strong quit right now to be fair. Classic made him look like a fool | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On August 30 2017 04:05 Fango wrote: Inno's TvP isn't his strong quit right now to be fair. Classic made him look like a fool It's always been his worst, actually. Inno first made his name as an absolute TvZ god, and was always pretty damn good in TvT, but ever since the SCV-pull days his TvP has only ever been competent-ish (relatively speaking ofc, the only people who can beat him are still top-tiers). The MU just doesn't have a very good fit with his straightforward macro playstyle. But I agree that Zest beating Inno in some online tourney is not really important. I just hope he brings his A-Game to the Super Tournament qualifiers, because he certainly has the form to make a deep run if not win the whole thing. But if he chokes in the first round or completely fails to qualify, I guess Zest fits the definition of ladder hero perfectly. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On August 30 2017 04:17 pvsnp wrote: It's always been his worst, actually. Inno first made his name as an absolute TvZ god, was always pretty damn good in TvT, but ever since the SCV-pull days his TvP has only ever been competent-ish. The MU just doesn't have a very good fit with his playstyle. It's funny because when Zest first broke out he was god at PvP/Z, but his PvT was never the best in korea. Luckily terrans were doing trash at the time and he still managed to win so many tournaments In Inno's defense, I don't think it's possible to win almost every TvP you play like he does in TvT or TvZ recently | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On August 30 2017 04:24 Fango wrote: It's funny because when Zest first broke out he was god at PvP/Z, but his PvT was never the best in korea. Luckily terrans were doing trash at the time and he still managed to win so many tournaments In Inno's defense, I don't think it's possible to win almost every TvP you play like he does in TvT or TvZ recently I mean, nobody is invincible, not even Inno. When any player utterly trashes the top-tier competition (like Inno did at GSL vs the World) we fans hail them as unbeatable conquerors but form is ever temporary and fleeting. Just look at his 3-0 vs Stats. Very impressive to sweep the best Protoss in the world, no doubt about that, but Stats is a straightforward macro player (much like Inno himself) and Inno's own style is a good match for that. Compare the style Stats used at GSL vs the World to the tricks (gold third timing, cancelled-Twilight-into-late-Oracles) that Classic pulled out in SSL. Different playstyle, different day, different form, and different result. That's not even getting into the subtleties of the different matchups and how different skills are used in each of them. Tasteless once said that Inno could tell his opponent what build he was using, give them maphacks, and still win anyways. Hyperbole notwithstanding, it takes some really fucking impressive mechanics+execution to pull that off. TvZ and TvT are both more "stable" matchups than TvP in that regard. But I digress. All of the greatest players have their own particular brand of invincibility. Zest had his time(s) of invincibility too, and look at him now. Once upon a time, he could play like a god and win GSLs. Now he's top of the ladder, and nothing else. Hopefully he will rise again in the future, like at the Super Tournament (?). | ||
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Vutalisk
United States680 Posts
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