EPTAll the best.
Avilo Fan Club - Page 9
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HeathenHill
Australia22 Posts
All the best. | ||
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gosublade
632 Posts
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On June 30 2012 03:45 Starshaped wrote: Idra is a complete moron, saying things like "go fast 3cc and put on pressure at the same time" and basically saying that Terran can keep up with Zerg techswitches, which is just bullshit. Avilo made some great points, like how Terran needs to make the PERFECT army composition based on what he sees to survive, and once the fight is over there's no way of knowing if it's gonna be followed up by 200 food ground or 200 food air. Meanwhile Zerg doesn't have to even consider what his opponent has, because infestors are alway good, broodlords are always good etc. etc. And since Terran needs actual buildings to produce units there's no way to have the tech-switch capabilities that Zerg does, not to mention the Terran bank will always be a lot smaller. And yeah, Idra calling anyone terrible is just hilarious. Talk about throwing rocks in glass houses. I lost what little respect I had for Idra after that 'debate'. He's so clueless, terrible, and bad mannered. If only his fame-to-skill ratio wasn't so skewed he would be long gone and forgotten by now. You need to be careful, you seem really biased here. Idra is far from a complete moron and actually has an excellent understanding of the game. His last run at MLG wasn't as good as Orlando's or anything but he's far, very far, from incompetent. His results are comparable to many good foreigners so please don't call IdrA terrible just because he isn't dominating the scene in the one-sided manner he used to. He also isn't really bad mannered.. I'm pretty sure that he had a very civil discussion with Qxc. But I'm not here to talk about Idra. Now, I'm not really going into a balance discussion because that isn't my place nor do I have the understand pros do. But you seem to think that TvZ late game is broken in Z's favor here, just because of tech switches and/or economy. I don't believe that that's the case. I also don't believe that T has 0 ways of pressuring Z at all. Queens are good but only defensively. A good Z needs to know when to drone and when to make units. A good T knows exactly how "greedy" he can play. etc Ok, my point here is that I don't think the people on Sotg are assholes at all and I think that some people should really try to see the other point of view. This may be useful for taking things into perspective: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349154 | ||
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bLah.
Croatia497 Posts
On June 30 2012 19:59 Incognoto wrote: You need to be careful, you seem really biased here. Idra is far from a complete moron and actually has an excellent understanding of the game. His last run at MLG wasn't as good as Orlando's or anything but he's far, very far, from incompetent. His results are comparable to many good foreigners so please don't call IdrA terrible just because he isn't dominating the scene in the one-sided manner he used to. He also isn't really bad mannered.. I'm pretty sure that he had a very civil discussion with Qxc. But I'm not here to talk about Idra. idra never dominated the scene, and his "understanding of the game" is pretty different from what he shows everywhere, and that's whining. He didnt' have civil discussion with QXC. Idra had his "I'm completely right and telling you what to do" attitude in that conversation but QXC decided not to get pulled into that, while Avilo said what every terran meant and got "STFU". it was stupid to get avilo into the show and then just diss him the whey they did. It was specifically stupid that it was guy who had show named "imbalanced" who dissed him. but after all this incident I'm pretty sure avilo got more fans than others others on that show, so there's that | ||
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Leberwurstbrot
Germany144 Posts
On June 30 2012 21:14 bLah. wrote: idra never dominated the scene, and his "understanding of the game" is pretty different from what he shows everywhere, and that's whining. He didnt' have civil discussion with QXC. Idra had his "I'm completely right and telling you what to do" attitude in that conversation but QXC decided not to get pulled into that, while Avilo said what every terran meant and got "STFU". it was stupid to get avilo into the show and then just diss him the whey they did. It was specifically stupid that it was guy who had show named "imbalanced" who dissed him. but after all this incident I'm pretty sure avilo got more fans than others others on that show, so there's that Yeah, maybe that what every Terran thinks is false..? IdrA tried to tell him but Avilo is just kinda stupid and can not understand what IdrA was saying. He said only the same shit, IdrA reacted completly right. | ||
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bLah.
Croatia497 Posts
On June 30 2012 22:09 Leberwurstbrot wrote: Yeah, maybe that what every Terran thinks is false..? IdrA tried to tell him but Avilo is just kinda stupid and can not understand what IdrA was saying. He said only the same shit, IdrA reacted completly right. It's probably true that every terran is false and that a guy who has saying "zerg isn't supposed to beat protoss" is completely right when he talks about balance and when he talks about how some race should just start playing better. who knows | ||
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gosublade
632 Posts
On June 30 2012 22:49 bLah. wrote: It's probably true that every terran is false and that a guy who has saying "zerg isn't supposed to beat protoss" is completely right when he talks about balance and when he talks about how some race should just start playing better. who knows that quote is like a year old, your argument is invalid | ||
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bLah.
Croatia497 Posts
On June 30 2012 23:26 gosublade wrote: that quote is like a year old, your argument is invalid True, we've since seen how idra transformed into rational person who doesn't call people imbeciles when they don't agree with his whining opinions. ou wait, he called avilo just that in this show. Only difference why Idra can't whine like a bitch about current state of game is because Zerg is heavily favored everywhere so he's all like "T and P needs to adapt" which in current situation is basically the same. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On June 30 2012 21:14 bLah. wrote: idra never dominated the scene, and his "understanding of the game" is pretty different from what he shows everywhere, and that's whining. He didnt' have civil discussion with QXC. Idra had his "I'm completely right and telling you what to do" attitude in that conversation but QXC decided not to get pulled into that, while Avilo said what every terran meant and got "STFU". it was stupid to get avilo into the show and then just diss him the whey they did. It was specifically stupid that it was guy who had show named "imbalanced" who dissed him. but after all this incident I'm pretty sure avilo got more fans than others others on that show, so there's that This post is overflowing with bias and ignorance. I'm not going to defend Idra here because that's not what the point of the discussion is, though mind you nearly everything you say makes me want to scream and cry and correct everything with a latte of swear words to go along with it. Basically, if you're defending what avilo said, you're defending that TvZ is completely and utterly broken. The other side of the argument is that if Zerg plays greedy, then Terrans can also play greedy. The trick is to play greedy by the right amount, which is something Terrans need to figure out. The other thing to note is that after a patch the metagame always changes, even slightly. So T builds also need to adapt to heavy Queen defense. It's not impossible either, as avilo stated. There are economic 2 rax openings which can make a Z uncomfortable. There are pre-hive timings that can work quite well for T if T sees multiple queens out. As long as you make minimal defenses early and get your 3rd up quickly enough, a strong timing is quite possible. Neither was avilo invited to the show just to be dissed. Things only escalated when avilo tried to interrupt IdrA. Idra being Idra, he didn't take it so well. Which is genuinely understandable if you're debating with someone you don't want to and that person both interrupts and refuses to heed someone else's point of view. That's all really. It's not really that big a deal and you don't have to hate people on Sotg for it. | ||
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bLah.
Croatia497 Posts
On July 01 2012 00:32 Incognoto wrote: This post is overflowing with bias and ignorance. I'm not going to defend Idra here because that's not what the point of the discussion is, though mind you nearly everything you say makes me want to scream and cry and correct everything with a latte of swear words to go along with it. Basically, if you're defending what avilo said, you're defending that TvZ is completely and utterly broken. The other side of the argument is that if Zerg plays greedy, then Terrans can also play greedy. The trick is to play greedy by the right amount, which is something Terrans need to figure out. The other thing to note is that after a patch the metagame always changes, even slightly. So T builds also need to adapt to heavy Queen defense. It's not impossible either, as avilo stated. There are economic 2 rax openings which can make a Z uncomfortable. There are pre-hive timings that can work quite well for T if T sees multiple queens out. As long as you make minimal defenses early and get your 3rd up quickly enough, a strong timing is quite possible. Neither was avilo invited to the show just to be dissed. Things only escalated when avilo tried to interrupt IdrA. Idra being Idra, he didn't take it so well. Which is genuinely understandable if you're debating with someone you don't want to and that person both interrupts and refuses to heed someone else's point of view. That's all really. It's not really that big a deal and you don't have to hate people on Sotg for it. Actually I didn't say anywhere that I agree with avilo's points or with him whatsoever. I said that "idra being idra" shouldn't be acceptable behaviour and that dissing someone, telling them they're imbeciles and to stfu is NOT and shouldn't be "genuinely understandable" ever. I said that if there's a big discussion in a community like it is now with TvZ then there can't be anyone who will just sit on some high throne and talk about balance and gameplay like it's some done deal. Idra is all like "let's see how it works like", and then when someone doesn't agree with some actual points he starts with "imbecile, stfu, etc." which is funny considering his whining past. I actually don't have anything against Idra, I just think he's the worst guy to have ono a show to talk about balance because other people handle those subject so much better and are more informative about it. And this is my last post here because it's fanclub, not discussion about idra, just wanted to say that it's completely true that Avilo (who I don't usually care that much about) was being dissed completely on top of usual making fun of through past 2 episodes. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On July 01 2012 00:45 bLah. wrote: Actually I didn't say anywhere that I agree with avilo's points or with him whatsoever. I said that "idra being idra" shouldn't be acceptable behaviour and that dissing someone, telling them they're imbeciles and to stfu is NOT and shouldn't be "genuinely understandable" ever. I said that if there's a big discussion in a community like it is now with TvZ then there can't be anyone who will just sit on some high throne and talk about balance and gameplay like it's some done deal. Idra is all like "let's see how it works like", and then when someone doesn't agree with some actual points he starts with "imbecile, stfu, etc." which is funny considering his whining past. I actually don't have anything against Idra, I just think he's the worst guy to have ono a show to talk about balance because other people handle those subject so much better and are more informative about it. And this is my last post here because it's fanclub, not discussion about idra, just wanted to say that it's completely true that Avilo (who I don't usually care that much about) was being dissed completely on top of usual making fun of through past 2 episodes. This is reminding me of the Destiny thing we had a while ago. Idra didn't start saying stfu when avilo was disagreeing with him. He said stfu when avilo was interrupting him. He didn't flame Qxc who didn't agree with him either. Idra being Idra is being impatient, Idra being Idra isn't being nasty to avilo because he disagrees with him. Avilo interrupted Idra in the middle of his point which is tediously annoying when you're repeating something to someone who clearly isn't listening or giving ground. I actually find Idra and Destiny to both be my two biggest sources on Zerg. If you take the time to listen to what they say and try to think about what they then you see it makes sense. You can see their points in examples in the game. You can also consider that even if Idra hasn't placed first in recent tournaments doesn't mean that he doesn't know shit about the game. So I actually think he has the right to think he knows best. Because he probably does.. unfortunately some people just can't see that or refuse to try to see it. I'm going to stop here because this isn't really going anywhere, I hope that at least a few people have read this discussion and at least thought a bit about everything.. gl hf | ||
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Irave
United States9965 Posts
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Waterflow
Sweden1550 Posts
On June 30 2012 22:09 Leberwurstbrot wrote: Yeah, maybe that what every Terran thinks is false..? IdrA tried to tell him but Avilo is just kinda stupid and can not understand what IdrA was saying. He said only the same shit, IdrA reacted completly right. Acted completely right by saying "Shut the fuck up"? He could of just said "Don't interrupt me" but chose the immature way of dealing with it instead. IdrA has problems with his temperament. | ||
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bropedo
United States89 Posts
On July 01 2012 02:05 Waterflow wrote: Acted completely right by saying "Shut the fuck up"? He could of just said "Don't interrupt me" but chose the immature way of dealing with it instead. IdrA has problems with his temperament. And Avilo could have not purposely interupted him and could have not sarcasticly agreed with Idra throughout half the conversation, forget the terrible arguements Avilo put up. Just because you dont like Idra doesnt mean he is the only one who acted immature with a temper problem. | ||
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Waterflow
Sweden1550 Posts
On July 01 2012 03:03 bropedo wrote: And Avilo could have not purposely interupted him and could have not sarcasticly agreed with Idra throughout half the conversation, forget the terrible arguements Avilo put up. Just because you dont like Idra doesnt mean he is the only one who acted immature with a temper problem. IdrA could chose to be the more mature one then. Isn't he older than Avilo? Sure i don't like IdrA but i don't hate him eihter. Maybe he has a hard time controlling his temperament and in that case i can't fully blame him. But if that's the case then there's help out there. Im not even being disrespectful or trolling now. Im serious. If he can control his anger though then i feel like he should choose to do that instead and be the bigger man. But this discussion will lead nowhere so i wont continue to argue about this. Both were probably wrong in one way or another but afterall IdrA is the professional gamer out of the two and he represents a team aswell as sponsors. If you can't agree that it sounded bad what IdrA said then there's no point in even discussing. | ||
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ShatterZer0
United States1843 Posts
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Alpino
Brazil4390 Posts
On June 30 2012 23:26 gosublade wrote: that quote is like a year old, your argument is invalid he reiterated that quote in the beginning of the last GSL | ||
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Steelo_Rivers
United States1968 Posts
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AluXez
Norway51 Posts
The regular dynamic of ZvT is that terran is the aggressor and makes units to attack, while zerg tries to make as much defense as needed, while building drones. Its all about knowing how many, and which defensive units you need to survive. This generally works because terran makes units out of buildings, so terran makes units constantly, but at a slow rate. Because of that, zerg can play greedy. But the other way around, if terran plays greedy, that is far more dangerous. That is because if zerg sees for instance an early third from the terran, he can build 20 roaches more or less instantly and go for the win, while if terran sees and early third from zerg, he has to first build 6 raxes, then start training marines and 5 minutes later is ready for the attack. Thats why playing passively as zerg is easier and more effective than doing it with therran. It is way easier to predict how many troops terran will have in 5 minutes, than zerg. | ||
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Vodh
68 Posts
The one pretty important point in the Avilo and Idra discussion was that sure, if zerg decides to be greedy Terran can also be greedy, but it just works one way. Zerg can do whatever he wants, and if he decides to be greedy then except for some really extreme all-ins the worst that could happen to him is 'being forced' into a lategame, which is not bad at all. If Terran decides to be greedy, he's much more vulnerable. And with the way the Zerg economy develops it's easier for Zerg to reach the point where he can tech switch freely than for Terran to be able to do the same, which is also a relatively good point. Avilo had a good shot at getting both of those across, but instead decided to focus on imputing a biased bs to Idra. There's a big difference between pointing out where TvZ is imbalanced, and calling the entire matchup an unwinable bs. It wasn't even a hard discussion to win, at the very least reach a draw. Sure, Idra was kinda bad mannered there, but how exactly is that news? JP and Idra were admittedly kind of biased towards Avilo, but he also got lost in his own argument towards the end, didn't really need much help to make himself sound stupid. | ||
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