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On June 05 2011 11:43 chillswithhippos wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 11:33 PandaMonk wrote:
Does anyone have a good ReasoN of why IdrA Lost that First game vs ThorZaIN. I mean he was 4base vs 2 base he had a HUGE worker lead some good upgrades pretty sizable army. He COMPLETELY outplayed him. Was the unit composition of Blueflame Hellion, marine, seige tank, thor just TOO powerful, because I dont see what Idra could have done in that situation (mebbe hive faster?hmmmm). If so, I'm sure he'll take down MMA prob saving his gosu vT build for MMA (prob developed for Bomber originally)
First post btw YAY well just by going ling/bling/muta he almost held the attack so it wasnt like thorzains comp was really unstoppable... besides it was kinda all-in and those are just really hard to hold in general. idra didnt even seem like he cared about those games, no infestors on four base in the first one (he usually has it by his third base) and just kinda lackluster control in both. i hardly doubt idra was really trying since those games really didnt make any difference, which is totally fine since he needs to save his strats, even thorzain had that same idea. really looking forward to idras winner bracket games tho! ohh btw i dunno why i was never in this before, but sign me up fellas!
the only problem with your analysis is that idra was upgrading infestors. thorzain attacked before he had enough gas to get them out. idra was forced into the muta ling bling attack. and, idra did care about playing (or he should have cared) because of MLG's extended series rule. if idra plays thorzain again, he will have a 0-2 deficit. it would be stupid for him not to care about it.
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Xtffc, I don't mean to repeatedly criticize you, but the quotes section code is broken. <3
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not gonna lie. i looked as if thorzain was completely prepared for idra's ZvT style
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On June 05 2011 11:46 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 11:43 chillswithhippos wrote:On June 05 2011 11:33 PandaMonk wrote:
Does anyone have a good ReasoN of why IdrA Lost that First game vs ThorZaIN. I mean he was 4base vs 2 base he had a HUGE worker lead some good upgrades pretty sizable army. He COMPLETELY outplayed him. Was the unit composition of Blueflame Hellion, marine, seige tank, thor just TOO powerful, because I dont see what Idra could have done in that situation (mebbe hive faster?hmmmm). If so, I'm sure he'll take down MMA prob saving his gosu vT build for MMA (prob developed for Bomber originally)
First post btw YAY well just by going ling/bling/muta he almost held the attack so it wasnt like thorzains comp was really unstoppable... besides it was kinda all-in and those are just really hard to hold in general. idra didnt even seem like he cared about those games, no infestors on four base in the first one (he usually has it by his third base) and just kinda lackluster control in both. i hardly doubt idra was really trying since those games really didnt make any difference, which is totally fine since he needs to save his strats, even thorzain had that same idea. really looking forward to idras winner bracket games tho! ohh btw i dunno why i was never in this before, but sign me up fellas! the only problem with your analysis is that idra was upgrading infestors. thorzain attacked before he had enough gas to get them out. idra was forced into the muta ling bling attack. and, idra did care about playing (or he should have cared) because of MLG's extended series rule. if idra plays thorzain again, he will have a 0-2 deficit. it would be stupid for him not to care about it.
sucks that thorzain isn't going into losers bracket
lol
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On June 05 2011 11:50 integrity wrote:
not gonna lie. i looked as if thorzain was completely prepared for idra's ZvT style
I think Idra overdroned after getting 4 bases up and thought thorzain would stay in his base more to stop the mutas. The second game Idra just didnt make a baneling nest lol.
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On June 05 2011 11:46 dAPhREAk wrote:
the only problem with your analysis is that idra was upgrading infestors. thorzain attacked before he had enough gas to get them out. idra was forced into the muta ling bling attack. and, idra did care about playing (or he should have cared) because of MLG's extended series rule. if idra plays thorzain again, he will have a 0-2 deficit. it would be stupid for him not to care about it.
I dunno it kind of seemed like he was tired of being in the situation he was in (game 1 when thorzain was making the slow push) and just said fuck it and attacked. The chances of him running into thorzain again is low.
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On June 05 2011 11:52 Xiaon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 11:46 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 05 2011 11:43 chillswithhippos wrote:On June 05 2011 11:33 PandaMonk wrote:
Does anyone have a good ReasoN of why IdrA Lost that First game vs ThorZaIN. I mean he was 4base vs 2 base he had a HUGE worker lead some good upgrades pretty sizable army. He COMPLETELY outplayed him. Was the unit composition of Blueflame Hellion, marine, seige tank, thor just TOO powerful, because I dont see what Idra could have done in that situation (mebbe hive faster?hmmmm). If so, I'm sure he'll take down MMA prob saving his gosu vT build for MMA (prob developed for Bomber originally)
First post btw YAY well just by going ling/bling/muta he almost held the attack so it wasnt like thorzains comp was really unstoppable... besides it was kinda all-in and those are just really hard to hold in general. idra didnt even seem like he cared about those games, no infestors on four base in the first one (he usually has it by his third base) and just kinda lackluster control in both. i hardly doubt idra was really trying since those games really didnt make any difference, which is totally fine since he needs to save his strats, even thorzain had that same idea. really looking forward to idras winner bracket games tho! ohh btw i dunno why i was never in this before, but sign me up fellas! the only problem with your analysis is that idra was upgrading infestors. thorzain attacked before he had enough gas to get them out. idra was forced into the muta ling bling attack. and, idra did care about playing (or he should have cared) because of MLG's extended series rule. if idra plays thorzain again, he will have a 0-2 deficit. it would be stupid for him not to care about it. sucks that thorzain isn't going into losers bracket lol
even if idra had won, thorzain wouldnt have gone into loser's bracket. it is pool play; it only decides seeds.
edit: actually, that is incorrect. MLG calls it the loser's bracket. thorzain would have gone to the loser's bracket whether he won or lost.
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ok yeah i just looked at the seed thing- so it look like to reach idra (if idra beats MMA, maybe losira) Thorzain and company will have to play said MMA and Losira.
He has a decent chance to win, because of his meticulous ZZ and good ZT
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On June 05 2011 11:59 Xiaon wrote:
ok yeah i just looked at the seed thing- so it look like to reach idra (if idra beats MMA, maybe losira) Thorzain and company will have to play said MMA and Losira.
He has a decent chance to win, because of his meticulous ZZ and good ZT
I don't think it could turn out any better for Idra. First up match with MMA is very winnable for Idra then I would assume he fancies his chances against either Nani or Losira. Looking at what MC has to go through to make it to the finals it seems like a given he will advance and Idra has the extended series advantage over MC.
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On June 05 2011 12:07 Mycl wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 11:59 Xiaon wrote:
ok yeah i just looked at the seed thing- so it look like to reach idra (if idra beats MMA, maybe losira) Thorzain and company will have to play said MMA and Losira.
He has a decent chance to win, because of his meticulous ZZ and good ZT I don't think it could turn out any better for Idra. First up match with MMA is very winnable for Idra then I would assume he fancies his chances against either Nani or Losira. Looking at what MC has to go through to make it to the finals it seems like a given he will advance and Idra has the extended series advantage over MC.
unfortunately, the two people i want to do well in this tourney are mma and idra. shame that idra is going to have to knock his ass down to loser's bracket so early. ;-) hopefully, he comes back to face idra in the finals.
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I really sad to see idra's play against thorzain, i know the match did not matter much to his standings but it was just uninspired play
I know the whole extended series rule, but i dont think idra has to worry. Thorzain is going to have to get past MC who he himself is down 0-2 against to get to idra.
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On June 05 2011 11:52 Xiaon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 11:46 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 05 2011 11:43 chillswithhippos wrote:On June 05 2011 11:33 PandaMonk wrote:
Does anyone have a good ReasoN of why IdrA Lost that First game vs ThorZaIN. I mean he was 4base vs 2 base he had a HUGE worker lead some good upgrades pretty sizable army. He COMPLETELY outplayed him. Was the unit composition of Blueflame Hellion, marine, seige tank, thor just TOO powerful, because I dont see what Idra could have done in that situation (mebbe hive faster?hmmmm). If so, I'm sure he'll take down MMA prob saving his gosu vT build for MMA (prob developed for Bomber originally)
First post btw YAY well just by going ling/bling/muta he almost held the attack so it wasnt like thorzains comp was really unstoppable... besides it was kinda all-in and those are just really hard to hold in general. idra didnt even seem like he cared about those games, no infestors on four base in the first one (he usually has it by his third base) and just kinda lackluster control in both. i hardly doubt idra was really trying since those games really didnt make any difference, which is totally fine since he needs to save his strats, even thorzain had that same idea. really looking forward to idras winner bracket games tho! ohh btw i dunno why i was never in this before, but sign me up fellas! the only problem with your analysis is that idra was upgrading infestors. thorzain attacked before he had enough gas to get them out. idra was forced into the muta ling bling attack. and, idra did care about playing (or he should have cared) because of MLG's extended series rule. if idra plays thorzain again, he will have a 0-2 deficit. it would be stupid for him not to care about it. sucks that thorzain isn't going into losers bracket lol
Actually, ThorZain is playing in losers bracket round 4 tomorrow since he got 3rd in the group.
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On June 05 2011 12:23 Quintum_ wrote:
I really sad to see idra's play against thorzain, i know the match did not matter much to his standings but it was just uninspired play
I know the whole extended series rule, but i dont think idra has to worry. Thorzain is going to have to get past MC who he himself is down 0-2 against to get to idra.
That series did have an odd feel to it. Both games and especially game 1 Idra always has a lot more 'stuff'. When thorzain did set up by Idra's 3rd, Idra's standing army was a few banes pretty much and his muta flock which allowed Thorzain to set up the contain.
Lets just be thankful Idra finished up today's games quite quickly so he has time to prepare for MMA and show his ZvT dominance tomorrow.
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Thorzain's timing attack in G1 was designed to hit before infestors. It was a smart build, probably designed just for MLG's sick contingent of Zergs.
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On June 05 2011 11:41 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 11:33 PandaMonk wrote:
Does anyone have a good ReasoN of why IdrA Lost that First game vs ThorZaIN. I mean he was 4base vs 2 base he had a HUGE worker lead some good upgrades pretty sizable army. He COMPLETELY outplayed him. Was the unit composition of Blueflame Hellion, marine, seige tank, thor just TOO powerful, because I dont see what Idra could have done in that situation (mebbe hive faster?hmmmm). If so, I'm sure he'll take down MMA prob saving his gosu vT build for MMA (prob developed for Bomber originally)
First post btw YAY Ah here is where you are wrong. Idra did not completely outplay him. He made a lot of drones so he couldn't fight the terran army when it came (as in so couldn't attack him in the middle to slow down the push or anything). He attacked into a position where there were lots of siege tanks spread out and that was a huge mistake. If he had been more patient he could have held that off (like waiting for thorzain to start moving up). I mean thorzain wasn't really attacking and just kind of sat there and idra attacked into it. I also think idra should have 2 evo's for upgrades not just one though this is not why he lost just a slight thing I noticed  . Overall it was just that engagement he tried that got shut down, he also lost muta's carelessly which was huge. If he hadn't lost as many muta's I do think he could have broken that push as well. Losing muta's and attacking kind of badly is why he lost to that is pretty much what I am saying
I dunno if he overdroned, but he didn't have enough larvae to spend the income the drones got him.. he was floating around 2k minerals pretty much the entire time, but was severely lacking in the ling count.
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I'm not sure why everyone thinks IdrA cared a lot about the Thorzain games. Even losing, he got first in his group, and he knows Thorzain would have to overcome the 0-2 extended vs MC to get to him. So basically, no chance of seeing Thorzain ever again. o.o
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in the first game supplies were always even. He should have maxed by that time, there is no other opportunity for him to hold that attack. and he lost too many mutas, not didnt kill a lot of siege tanks tho. and the banes never connected with marines.
so... you cant win a zvt if you dont do these things.
as for the 2nd game, not much to say about it.. he was so frustrated after losing the first game cuz he is really confident in his zvt and he was in a good run. everything went wrong and caught offguard with that drop. and after a fail bane bust he just leaves.
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He should have six pooled Thorzain both games just so no one could study his weakness.
My concern is that MMA will watch IdrA's recent losses against Thorzain and DDE and come to the conclusion that early rushes are the biggest holes in IdrA's ZvT right now.
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My stream died at the very end, what did Thorzain have to say about the match / Idra?
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United States1966 Posts
On June 05 2011 12:43 ThaZenith wrote:
I'm not sure why everyone thinks IdrA cared a lot about the Thorzain games. Even losing, he got first in his group, and he knows Thorzain would have to overcome the 0-2 extended vs MC to get to him. So basically, no chance of seeing Thorzain ever again. o.o
This basically, not discrediting ThorZains wins though, takes a lot to beat Idra no matter what haha
idra 1st place in group of death :D
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EPT
