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Personal attacks in this thread will draw a temp ban. |
Racism is bad, stop talking about races you racists. 
Currently watching IdrA's VODs again, and regretting how low his mic volume was when he commentated during play.
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Is idra playing in the ironsquid matches today?
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On March 15 2012 01:34 aifranchise wrote:
Is idra playing in the ironsquid matches today?
yes
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On March 15 2012 01:34 aifranchise wrote:
Is idra playing in the ironsquid matches today?
He's playing vs Symbol in like 4 hours
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On March 15 2012 01:19 Aocowns wrote:
Have Stephano recently played any top tier toss? The difference between the korean protoss and the foreigner protoss is pretty fucking huge, and I'm nore sure Stephano has played any recently. If he did play one though, and he beat him, please link me to VODs/replays, as I need to learn how to beat protoss :3
He hasn't played many games vs Korean Protosses, but of the recent ones he has played, he has won none. MC literally killed him just before broods arrived after holding off the roach ling pressure on his third.
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On March 15 2012 01:19 Aocowns wrote:
Have Stephano recently played any top tier toss? The difference between the korean protoss and the foreigner protoss is pretty fucking huge, and I'm nore sure Stephano has played any recently. If he did play one though, and he beat him, please link me to VODs/replays, as I need to learn how to beat protoss :3
You don't need to see him beating a korean protoss to learn how to beat protoss like he does.
you dont play against top tier koreans
or do you? hahaha
and to answer your question, I don't think he played any top tier korean toss in tournament games besides MC so far. (he did beat huk and inori @IPL 3, but thats it.)
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On March 15 2012 01:19 Aocowns wrote:
Have Stephano recently played any top tier toss? The difference between the korean protoss and the foreigner protoss is pretty fucking huge, and I'm nore sure Stephano has played any recently. If he did play one though, and he beat him, please link me to VODs/replays, as I need to learn how to beat protoss :3
Look at his Vods from Korea he beat pleanty of korean protoss. I think he was like 25-5 vs Sage.
Idra should copy as much he can from Stephano
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On March 15 2012 01:41 Kznn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 01:19 Aocowns wrote:
Have Stephano recently played any top tier toss? The difference between the korean protoss and the foreigner protoss is pretty fucking huge, and I'm nore sure Stephano has played any recently. If he did play one though, and he beat him, please link me to VODs/replays, as I need to learn how to beat protoss :3 You don't need to see him beating a korean protoss to learn how to beat protoss like he does. you dont play against top tier koreans or do you? hahaha and to answer your question, I don't think he played any top tier korean toss in tournament games besides MC so far. (he did beat huk and inori @IPL 3, but thats it.)
No that's true, but I'm always up for learning from the best(Stephano is by no means best, but people hype his ZvP, so there has to be something, right? But as I'm getting these replies, it seems he has made a reputation by destroying players like Nightend, HasuObs and the like...)
Edit: Don't take this wrong, Hasuobs and those guys are awesome, but compared to Genius/Parting/MC/Oz etc they are pretty underwhelming
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On March 15 2012 01:50 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 01:41 Kznn wrote:On March 15 2012 01:19 Aocowns wrote:
Have Stephano recently played any top tier toss? The difference between the korean protoss and the foreigner protoss is pretty fucking huge, and I'm nore sure Stephano has played any recently. If he did play one though, and he beat him, please link me to VODs/replays, as I need to learn how to beat protoss :3 You don't need to see him beating a korean protoss to learn how to beat protoss like he does. you dont play against top tier koreans or do you? hahaha and to answer your question, I don't think he played any top tier korean toss in tournament games besides MC so far. (he did beat huk and inori @IPL 3, but thats it.) No that's true, but I'm always up for learning from the best(Stephano is by no means best, but people hype his ZvP, so there has to be something, right? But as I'm getting these replies, it seems he has made a reputation by destroying players like Nightend, HasuObs and the like...) Edit: Don't take this wrong, Hasuobs and those guys are awesome, but compared to Genius/Parting/MC/Oz etc they are pretty underwhelming
Nestea, DRG, MC and Idra said that Stephano was the best Zerg(all races) foreign player...he's top 3 zerg in the world no doubt.
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On March 15 2012 01:59 Rhaegar_tar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 01:50 Aocowns wrote:On March 15 2012 01:41 Kznn wrote:On March 15 2012 01:19 Aocowns wrote:
Have Stephano recently played any top tier toss? The difference between the korean protoss and the foreigner protoss is pretty fucking huge, and I'm nore sure Stephano has played any recently. If he did play one though, and he beat him, please link me to VODs/replays, as I need to learn how to beat protoss :3 You don't need to see him beating a korean protoss to learn how to beat protoss like he does. you dont play against top tier koreans or do you? hahaha and to answer your question, I don't think he played any top tier korean toss in tournament games besides MC so far. (he did beat huk and inori @IPL 3, but thats it.) No that's true, but I'm always up for learning from the best(Stephano is by no means best, but people hype his ZvP, so there has to be something, right? But as I'm getting these replies, it seems he has made a reputation by destroying players like Nightend, HasuObs and the like...) Edit: Don't take this wrong, Hasuobs and those guys are awesome, but compared to Genius/Parting/MC/Oz etc they are pretty underwhelming Nestea, DRG, MC and Idra said that Stephano was the best Zerg(all races) foreign player...he's top 3 zerg in the world no doubt.
I'd say there is lots of doubt when he has not actually played against the top of competition that much. There is no doubt that he's the best foreign zerg period though
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Day9 did a very recent daily on Stephano's late game ZvP. Check it out on his website.
http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-429-p1-stephano-s-zvp-late-game-style-6009413
I think the main differences between stephano/IdrA zvp include;
a)Stephano's midgame heavy reliance on spine crawlers+infestors (like, a LOT of spines everywhere) while teching to brood lords. He puts them anywhere he can, because he usually has a higher drone count/smaller army, and generally plays turtle-style to avoid weak early engagements. IdrA does throw up some spines here and there, but never in such high volume, and he keeps his economy to about 70 drones max. (And as we all know, he has never loved the infestor)
Stephano = lots of static defenses, IdrA = higher risk play, and that makes your average protoss push a little stronger.
b)IdrA still uses hydras sometimes. Who knows why.
They both seem to enjoy gasless expansions, and putting down the roach warren and evo chamber right after lair. But it seems through watching them play that Stephano might be taking his third more consistently before gas, and IdrA sometimes doesn't throw down the evo chamber immediately after lair.
Btw, hey IdrA fanclub, long time no post.
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On March 15 2012 01:05 Olsson wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 01:00 msjakofsky wrote:On March 15 2012 00:54 Olsson wrote:On March 15 2012 00:43 msjakofsky wrote:On March 15 2012 00:41 Olsson wrote:
@msjakofsky: The metagame switches? Statistics are unreliable? Players make mistakes? Going after statistics is fucking retarded since you don't know if all the tosses went mass zealot vs roaches this month.
this works vica versa you don't know if the zergs droned to 130 vs 2base all in in february. and statistics were the starting point of this debate, so i don't get your point seems to me that even if zergs win most of the time there is always an explanation here how protoss is overpowered vs zerg, which is kinda strange It doesn't work vice versa since the races have different skillcaps and there's always a possibility that protoss players just felt better when they started to play that day and performed better and zergies maybe played bad? I mean statistics just ARE NOT reliable unless you would be super picky and pick just the prime examples of replays into it. Zergs win most of the time? Well I don't know what that's supposed to mean because there are alot of factors in tournaments so it's hard to say Zerg wins more than toss. For example if a bracket is packed with more toss than any other bracket it will mean that more protosses are eliminated towards the quarter finals and so on as they wont get out of group play. It's better to look at specific replay examples where you can actually see that protoss made a mistake and if he wouldnt of had done that mistake he would've won. Genius vs DRG good example, the entire finals is based around Genius gambling (Carriers) or making a mistake (Proxy Stargate mis-focus fire) yeah i agree that those finals weren't exactly perfect from genius' perspective. but everything you say in truth can be interpreted as vica versa... same thing could be said about zergs condition, or that they felt better... i agree statistics are not perfect but at least better than assumptions based on our subjective opinions... same thing about the more p in brackeds could be said about zergs either... skillcap difference is debatable too, not factual at all. statistics aren't perfect, but still better than all these subjective assumptions. and additionally in a player's fanclub bias towards his race is highly suspicious Well then this is entirely irrelevant. At this moment everything will be interpreted as subjective. The only way to determine balance is to look at specific replay examples where toss sits on their ass the entire game then moves out on 4-6 base with a deathball that cannot be beaten. Well there's a reason I'm saying this in the IDRA fanclub if you havn't noticed. Everyone comes in here to bitch about ZvP since Idra says it's a broken matchup which I agree with. BIAS or not, go after specific examples thats all I can say. But the only arguments you have had is that zerg wins more than protoss, and after that you acknowledge that Genius played bad in the finals vs DRG.
first, not everything is subjective. statistics aren't subjective.
second, your imaginary extremely biased scenario would be "the only way to determine balance"? toss sits on his ass and moves out on 4-6 base? lol i don't even think you believe it goes like this. majority of toss wins are from 2 base timings in early-midgame. if the protoss gets a deathball, zerg should have broodlord+infestor which is just as scary.
i know you're in the idra fanclub but believe or not, it's not obligatory to be extremely biased here, even if you think so.
your argument was basically "i don't care about statistics or tourny results, protoss is retarded they deathball amove blah blah", even mine were better than that.
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I seriously feel like Idra may become even/better than Stephano if he had Stephano's early stages defense(not failing to defend early aggression or cheese). I saw his games against Supernova at IEM and i was way more impressed by his late game ZvT than Stephano's(and i'm a fan of Stephano too). You may say that Polt plays better than Supernova atm but still...
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On March 15 2012 01:59 Rhaegar_tar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 01:50 Aocowns wrote:On March 15 2012 01:41 Kznn wrote:On March 15 2012 01:19 Aocowns wrote:
Have Stephano recently played any top tier toss? The difference between the korean protoss and the foreigner protoss is pretty fucking huge, and I'm nore sure Stephano has played any recently. If he did play one though, and he beat him, please link me to VODs/replays, as I need to learn how to beat protoss :3 You don't need to see him beating a korean protoss to learn how to beat protoss like he does. you dont play against top tier koreans or do you? hahaha and to answer your question, I don't think he played any top tier korean toss in tournament games besides MC so far. (he did beat huk and inori @IPL 3, but thats it.) No that's true, but I'm always up for learning from the best(Stephano is by no means best, but people hype his ZvP, so there has to be something, right? But as I'm getting these replies, it seems he has made a reputation by destroying players like Nightend, HasuObs and the like...) Edit: Don't take this wrong, Hasuobs and those guys are awesome, but compared to Genius/Parting/MC/Oz etc they are pretty underwhelming Nestea, DRG, MC and Idra said that Stephano was the best Zerg(all races) foreign player...he's top 3 zerg in the world no doubt.
This is soooo funny, anyone says 'Stephano is not the best foreign Zerg player', anywhere.
Short time later: A random frenchman appears!
:D
Oh this is Idra's fanclub. I like Idra btw. Oh, and Stephano too.
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On March 15 2012 01:10 MONXY FIST wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 01:05 Olsson wrote:On March 15 2012 01:00 msjakofsky wrote:On March 15 2012 00:54 Olsson wrote:On March 15 2012 00:43 msjakofsky wrote:On March 15 2012 00:41 Olsson wrote:
@msjakofsky: The metagame switches? Statistics are unreliable? Players make mistakes? Going after statistics is fucking retarded since you don't know if all the tosses went mass zealot vs roaches this month.
this works vica versa you don't know if the zergs droned to 130 vs 2base all in in february. and statistics were the starting point of this debate, so i don't get your point seems to me that even if zergs win most of the time there is always an explanation here how protoss is overpowered vs zerg, which is kinda strange It doesn't work vice versa since the races have different skillcaps and there's always a possibility that protoss players just felt better when they started to play that day and performed better and zergies maybe played bad? I mean statistics just ARE NOT reliable unless you would be super picky and pick just the prime examples of replays into it. Zergs win most of the time? Well I don't know what that's supposed to mean because there are alot of factors in tournaments so it's hard to say Zerg wins more than toss. For example if a bracket is packed with more toss than any other bracket it will mean that more protosses are eliminated towards the quarter finals and so on as they wont get out of group play. It's better to look at specific replay examples where you can actually see that protoss made a mistake and if he wouldnt of had done that mistake he would've won. Genius vs DRG good example, the entire finals is based around Genius gambling (Carriers) or making a mistake (Proxy Stargate mis-focus fire) yeah i agree that those finals weren't exactly perfect from genius' perspective. but everything you say in truth can be interpreted as vica versa... same thing could be said about zergs condition, or that they felt better... i agree statistics are not perfect but at least better than assumptions based on our subjective opinions... same thing about the more p in brackeds could be said about zergs either... skillcap difference is debatable too, not factual at all. statistics aren't perfect, but still better than all these subjective assumptions. and additionally in a player's fanclub bias towards his race is highly suspicious Well then this is entirely irrelevant. At this moment everything will be interpreted as subjective. The only way to determine balance is to look at specific replay examples where toss sits on their ass the entire game then moves out on 4-6 base with a deathball that cannot be beaten. Well there's a reason I'm saying this in the IDRA fanclub if you havn't noticed. Everyone comes in here to bitch about ZvP since Idra says it's a broken matchup which I agree with. BIAS or not, go after specific examples thats all I can say. But the only arguments you have had is that zerg wins more than protoss, and after that you acknowledge that Genius played bad in the finals vs DRG. Are you saying that it is easy for protoss to establish 4-6 bases? Can Zerg not attack before then? I mean i have seen dozen of examples where Protoss tries the very same thing you mention only to get overrun by a steady stream of roaches.
Forcefields are pretty good. Maps like entombed let toss get a free third, get deathball move out get forth base and when it's up you can pretty much do what you want as a toss and at this point.
On March 15 2012 02:21 msjakofsky wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 01:05 Olsson wrote:On March 15 2012 01:00 msjakofsky wrote:On March 15 2012 00:54 Olsson wrote:On March 15 2012 00:43 msjakofsky wrote:On March 15 2012 00:41 Olsson wrote:
@msjakofsky: The metagame switches? Statistics are unreliable? Players make mistakes? Going after statistics is fucking retarded since you don't know if all the tosses went mass zealot vs roaches this month.
this works vica versa you don't know if the zergs droned to 130 vs 2base all in in february. and statistics were the starting point of this debate, so i don't get your point seems to me that even if zergs win most of the time there is always an explanation here how protoss is overpowered vs zerg, which is kinda strange It doesn't work vice versa since the races have different skillcaps and there's always a possibility that protoss players just felt better when they started to play that day and performed better and zergies maybe played bad? I mean statistics just ARE NOT reliable unless you would be super picky and pick just the prime examples of replays into it. Zergs win most of the time? Well I don't know what that's supposed to mean because there are alot of factors in tournaments so it's hard to say Zerg wins more than toss. For example if a bracket is packed with more toss than any other bracket it will mean that more protosses are eliminated towards the quarter finals and so on as they wont get out of group play. It's better to look at specific replay examples where you can actually see that protoss made a mistake and if he wouldnt of had done that mistake he would've won. Genius vs DRG good example, the entire finals is based around Genius gambling (Carriers) or making a mistake (Proxy Stargate mis-focus fire) yeah i agree that those finals weren't exactly perfect from genius' perspective. but everything you say in truth can be interpreted as vica versa... same thing could be said about zergs condition, or that they felt better... i agree statistics are not perfect but at least better than assumptions based on our subjective opinions... same thing about the more p in brackeds could be said about zergs either... skillcap difference is debatable too, not factual at all. statistics aren't perfect, but still better than all these subjective assumptions. and additionally in a player's fanclub bias towards his race is highly suspicious Well then this is entirely irrelevant. At this moment everything will be interpreted as subjective. The only way to determine balance is to look at specific replay examples where toss sits on their ass the entire game then moves out on 4-6 base with a deathball that cannot be beaten. Well there's a reason I'm saying this in the IDRA fanclub if you havn't noticed. Everyone comes in here to bitch about ZvP since Idra says it's a broken matchup which I agree with. BIAS or not, go after specific examples thats all I can say. But the only arguments you have had is that zerg wins more than protoss, and after that you acknowledge that Genius played bad in the finals vs DRG. first, not everything is subjective. statistics aren't subjective. second, your imaginary extremely biased scenario would be "the only way to determine balance"? toss sits on his ass and moves out on 4-6 base? lol i don't even think you believe it goes like this. majority of toss wins are from 2 base timings in early-midgame. if the protoss gets a deathball, zerg should have broodlord+infestor which is just as scary. i know you're in the idra fanclub but believe or not, it's not obligatory to be extremely biased here, even if you think so. your argument was basically "i don't care about statistics or tourny results, protoss is retarded they deathball amove blah blah", even mine were better than that.
Not really. I mean nothing can beat voidray, colossus, archon, templar, mothership,
Also your argument is basically: NO you're wrong I'm right.
Everything is subjective at this point because theres no fucking replays to show you "HERE ZERG IS IMBA".
Yes toss wins on 2base timings because they chose to do wtf is your point? My point being that if toss plays well and the maps allow it they can get alot of bases and just build a deathball. Hive tech comes at around 20 minutes any earlier is extremely risky and vulnerable to timings. At this point toss will have four bases, mothership and all of their tech, if they chose to get it that is. You may just say "Nope this isnt how it is, zerg will deny that base with a bigger army and remax and win or have broodlords in time". If he tries to get broodlords that early you can just kill him in the HUGE timing before them, when toss is on 3base and builds a deathball you need broodlords and infestors to trade cost efficiently anything else will not trade efficiently.
Stephano: http://day9.tv/d9d429/
Just watch and then say something valid. Stephano basically hold any aggression, goes 4base at 9 minutes gets infestors early, gets a few spines and just makes infestors, makes drones and spines get fifth and sixth, more drones, double spire, toss just sits back. My point being he techs off NOTHING and gets away with it and people call it unbeatable. Since he also invests alot into spines people could just expo even more, but they dont. Stephano havn't played vs any korean protosses recently and that is probably the biggest difference in terms of race-nationality. Foreigner and korean protosses have a huge skill difference.
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United States15275 Posts
On March 15 2012 02:21 Rhaegar_tar wrote:
I seriously feel like Idra may become even/better than Stephano if he had Stephano's early stages defense(not failing to defend early aggression or cheese). I saw his games against Supernova at IEM and i was way more impressed by his late game ZvT than Stephano's(and i'm a fan of Stephano too). You may say that Polt plays better than Supernova atm but still...
Supernova plays so bad outside of Korea. I can't explain it, but he may be suffering from Nestea syndrome.
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On March 15 2012 02:41 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 02:21 Rhaegar_tar wrote:
I seriously feel like Idra may become even/better than Stephano if he had Stephano's early stages defense(not failing to defend early aggression or cheese). I saw his games against Supernova at IEM and i was way more impressed by his late game ZvT than Stephano's(and i'm a fan of Stephano too). You may say that Polt plays better than Supernova atm but still...
Supernova plays so bad outside of Korea. I can't explain it, but he may be suffering from Nestea syndrome.
NesTea saids he has an extremely hard time getting rest outside Korea so id imagine that a good chunk of Koreans have the same sort of problem
it might be once we see the koreans travel alot more theyll get more used to adapting
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On March 15 2012 02:29 Olsson wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 01:10 MONXY FIST wrote:On March 15 2012 01:05 Olsson wrote:On March 15 2012 01:00 msjakofsky wrote:On March 15 2012 00:54 Olsson wrote:On March 15 2012 00:43 msjakofsky wrote:On March 15 2012 00:41 Olsson wrote:
@msjakofsky: The metagame switches? Statistics are unreliable? Players make mistakes? Going after statistics is fucking retarded since you don't know if all the tosses went mass zealot vs roaches this month.
this works vica versa you don't know if the zergs droned to 130 vs 2base all in in february. and statistics were the starting point of this debate, so i don't get your point seems to me that even if zergs win most of the time there is always an explanation here how protoss is overpowered vs zerg, which is kinda strange It doesn't work vice versa since the races have different skillcaps and there's always a possibility that protoss players just felt better when they started to play that day and performed better and zergies maybe played bad? I mean statistics just ARE NOT reliable unless you would be super picky and pick just the prime examples of replays into it. Zergs win most of the time? Well I don't know what that's supposed to mean because there are alot of factors in tournaments so it's hard to say Zerg wins more than toss. For example if a bracket is packed with more toss than any other bracket it will mean that more protosses are eliminated towards the quarter finals and so on as they wont get out of group play. It's better to look at specific replay examples where you can actually see that protoss made a mistake and if he wouldnt of had done that mistake he would've won. Genius vs DRG good example, the entire finals is based around Genius gambling (Carriers) or making a mistake (Proxy Stargate mis-focus fire) yeah i agree that those finals weren't exactly perfect from genius' perspective. but everything you say in truth can be interpreted as vica versa... same thing could be said about zergs condition, or that they felt better... i agree statistics are not perfect but at least better than assumptions based on our subjective opinions... same thing about the more p in brackeds could be said about zergs either... skillcap difference is debatable too, not factual at all. statistics aren't perfect, but still better than all these subjective assumptions. and additionally in a player's fanclub bias towards his race is highly suspicious Well then this is entirely irrelevant. At this moment everything will be interpreted as subjective. The only way to determine balance is to look at specific replay examples where toss sits on their ass the entire game then moves out on 4-6 base with a deathball that cannot be beaten. Well there's a reason I'm saying this in the IDRA fanclub if you havn't noticed. Everyone comes in here to bitch about ZvP since Idra says it's a broken matchup which I agree with. BIAS or not, go after specific examples thats all I can say. But the only arguments you have had is that zerg wins more than protoss, and after that you acknowledge that Genius played bad in the finals vs DRG. Are you saying that it is easy for protoss to establish 4-6 bases? Can Zerg not attack before then? I mean i have seen dozen of examples where Protoss tries the very same thing you mention only to get overrun by a steady stream of roaches. Forcefields are pretty good. Maps like entombed let toss get a free third, get deathball move out get forth base and when it's up you can pretty much do what you want as a toss and at this point.
Not every map is entombed. I agree it is easy to take a third on that map. However on some maps a protoss cannot take a quick third. Forcefields are not indefinite and sometimes protoss just do not have enough of them.
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On March 15 2012 03:46 MONXY FIST wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 02:29 Olsson wrote:On March 15 2012 01:10 MONXY FIST wrote:On March 15 2012 01:05 Olsson wrote:On March 15 2012 01:00 msjakofsky wrote:On March 15 2012 00:54 Olsson wrote:On March 15 2012 00:43 msjakofsky wrote:On March 15 2012 00:41 Olsson wrote:
@msjakofsky: The metagame switches? Statistics are unreliable? Players make mistakes? Going after statistics is fucking retarded since you don't know if all the tosses went mass zealot vs roaches this month.
this works vica versa you don't know if the zergs droned to 130 vs 2base all in in february. and statistics were the starting point of this debate, so i don't get your point seems to me that even if zergs win most of the time there is always an explanation here how protoss is overpowered vs zerg, which is kinda strange It doesn't work vice versa since the races have different skillcaps and there's always a possibility that protoss players just felt better when they started to play that day and performed better and zergies maybe played bad? I mean statistics just ARE NOT reliable unless you would be super picky and pick just the prime examples of replays into it. Zergs win most of the time? Well I don't know what that's supposed to mean because there are alot of factors in tournaments so it's hard to say Zerg wins more than toss. For example if a bracket is packed with more toss than any other bracket it will mean that more protosses are eliminated towards the quarter finals and so on as they wont get out of group play. It's better to look at specific replay examples where you can actually see that protoss made a mistake and if he wouldnt of had done that mistake he would've won. Genius vs DRG good example, the entire finals is based around Genius gambling (Carriers) or making a mistake (Proxy Stargate mis-focus fire) yeah i agree that those finals weren't exactly perfect from genius' perspective. but everything you say in truth can be interpreted as vica versa... same thing could be said about zergs condition, or that they felt better... i agree statistics are not perfect but at least better than assumptions based on our subjective opinions... same thing about the more p in brackeds could be said about zergs either... skillcap difference is debatable too, not factual at all. statistics aren't perfect, but still better than all these subjective assumptions. and additionally in a player's fanclub bias towards his race is highly suspicious Well then this is entirely irrelevant. At this moment everything will be interpreted as subjective. The only way to determine balance is to look at specific replay examples where toss sits on their ass the entire game then moves out on 4-6 base with a deathball that cannot be beaten. Well there's a reason I'm saying this in the IDRA fanclub if you havn't noticed. Everyone comes in here to bitch about ZvP since Idra says it's a broken matchup which I agree with. BIAS or not, go after specific examples thats all I can say. But the only arguments you have had is that zerg wins more than protoss, and after that you acknowledge that Genius played bad in the finals vs DRG. Are you saying that it is easy for protoss to establish 4-6 bases? Can Zerg not attack before then? I mean i have seen dozen of examples where Protoss tries the very same thing you mention only to get overrun by a steady stream of roaches. Forcefields are pretty good. Maps like entombed let toss get a free third, get deathball move out get forth base and when it's up you can pretty much do what you want as a toss and at this point. Not every map is entombed. I agree it is easy to take a third on that map. However on some maps a protoss cannot take a quick third. Forcefields are not indefinite and sometimes protoss just do not have enough of them.
Forcefields buy time for tech to get out. For example buy time for immortals, colossus, storm or just more units. I was saying entombed to give a more specific example. Many maps allow a fast easy defendable third it's how Starcraft 2 has evolved.
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Where can I get the wallpaper in the first post? It's just a link to a stream recording...
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EPT
