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Personal attacks in this thread will draw a temp ban. |
On February 28 2012 01:54 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 01:25 vlkv wrote:On February 28 2012 00:50 Bagi wrote:
Of course, but making one round of units, building a pre-emptive roach warren or just an extra spine can make you a lot more prepared for these types of plays. You can't always know whats coming, but you can be better prepared.
You can do the Ret style and just drone up like a madman, but guys like viOLet have shown that zergs can be just as successful with a more aggressive lower eco type of play. I am not a great SCII player by any means, so take what I say with a grain of salt. But from I understand this statement basically says that you should prepare for every possibility (of pressure from the opponent) in the absence of scouting information regarding the opponents exact build - which is often hard or impossible to get for a zerg player in many game situations. A player following this maxim would likely not be very competitive since he has to make so many economical sacrifices that he is equally screwed when some kind of all-in or pressure is NOT coming, rendering the early investment of defensive infrastructure useless. Therefore competitive players make educated guesses of what the opponent is about to do before they can confirm this via scouting. Sometimes those guesses are wrong and sometimes the necessary information is gathered too late. I never claimed that you need to be prepared for every single thing, its almost impossible and not economically sound at all. What I'm saying is that you can make little sacrifices to be safer, for example instead of building a lone spine crawler build a 2nd one and place your evo chamber in a good spot to make hellion runbys harder to pull off. A spine crawler is 150 minerals if you count the drone, its the same price as 6 zerglings. Has anyone ever gg'd because they lose 6 zerglings to a lucky hellion shot early game? Does that really put you so far behind? I don't think so. There are educated guesses and then there are players trying to cut corners. 1 spine with nothing to support it is the latter, especially if you have no clue what your opponent is doing.
i ahvent seen the game but if he went double factory blue flame hellion moving his evo chamber and placing an extra spine wouldnt have saved him
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On February 28 2012 02:01 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 01:54 Bagi wrote:On February 28 2012 01:25 vlkv wrote:On February 28 2012 00:50 Bagi wrote:
Of course, but making one round of units, building a pre-emptive roach warren or just an extra spine can make you a lot more prepared for these types of plays. You can't always know whats coming, but you can be better prepared.
You can do the Ret style and just drone up like a madman, but guys like viOLet have shown that zergs can be just as successful with a more aggressive lower eco type of play. I am not a great SCII player by any means, so take what I say with a grain of salt. But from I understand this statement basically says that you should prepare for every possibility (of pressure from the opponent) in the absence of scouting information regarding the opponents exact build - which is often hard or impossible to get for a zerg player in many game situations. A player following this maxim would likely not be very competitive since he has to make so many economical sacrifices that he is equally screwed when some kind of all-in or pressure is NOT coming, rendering the early investment of defensive infrastructure useless. Therefore competitive players make educated guesses of what the opponent is about to do before they can confirm this via scouting. Sometimes those guesses are wrong and sometimes the necessary information is gathered too late. I never claimed that you need to be prepared for every single thing, its almost impossible and not economically sound at all. What I'm saying is that you can make little sacrifices to be safer, for example instead of building a lone spine crawler build a 2nd one and place your evo chamber in a good spot to make hellion runbys harder to pull off. A spine crawler is 150 minerals if you count the drone, its the same price as 6 zerglings. Has anyone ever gg'd because they lose 6 zerglings to a lucky hellion shot early game? Does that really put you so far behind? I don't think so. There are educated guesses and then there are players trying to cut corners. 1 spine with nothing to support it is the latter, especially if you have no clue what your opponent is doing. i ahvent seen the game but if he went double factory blue flame hellion moving his evo chamber and placing an extra spine wouldnt have saved him
That's impossible to say for certain. It certainly would have helped, and maybe allowed him to pump enough units to defend with a lucky surround.
Either way there are many things that he could have done that would have made him better prepared, without getting too much behind. He just chose to take a risk and not do any of those things.
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[QUOTE]On February 28 2012 02:01 Forikorder wrote:
[QUOTE]On February 28 2012 01:54 Bagi wrote:
[QUOTE]On February 28 2012 01:25 vlkv wrote:
[QUOTE]On February 28 2012 00:50 Bagi wrote:
Of course, but making one round of units, building a pre-emptive roach warren or just an extra spine can make you a lot more prepared for these types of plays. You can't always know whats coming, but you can be better prepared.
You can do the Ret style and just drone up like a madman, but guys like viOLet have shown that zergs can be just as successful with a more aggressive lower eco type of play.[/QUOTE]
I am not a great SCII player by any means, so take what I say with a grain of salt. But from I understand this statement basically says that you should prepare for every possibility (of pressure from the opponent) in the absence of scouting information regarding the opponents exact build - which is often hard or impossible to get for a zerg player in many game situations.
A player following this maxim would likely not be very competitive since he has to make so many economical sacrifices that he is equally screwed when some kind of all-in or pressure is NOT coming, rendering the early investment of defensive infrastructure useless. Therefore competitive players make educated guesses of what the opponent is about to do before they can confirm this via scouting. Sometimes those guesses are wrong and sometimes the necessary information is gathered too late. [/QUOTE]
I never claimed that you need to be prepared for every single thing, its almost impossible and not economically sound at all. What I'm saying is that you can make little sacrifices to be safer, for example instead of building a lone spine crawler build a 2nd one and place your evo chamber in a good spot to make hellion runbys harder to pull off. A spine crawler is 150 minerals if you count the drone, its the same price as 6 zerglings. Has anyone ever gg'd because they lose 6 zerglings to a lucky hellion shot early game? Does that really put you so far behind? I don't think so.
[/QUOTE]
Sadly it puts you much behind
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On February 28 2012 02:13 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 02:01 Forikorder wrote:On February 28 2012 01:54 Bagi wrote:On February 28 2012 01:25 vlkv wrote:On February 28 2012 00:50 Bagi wrote:
Of course, but making one round of units, building a pre-emptive roach warren or just an extra spine can make you a lot more prepared for these types of plays. You can't always know whats coming, but you can be better prepared.
You can do the Ret style and just drone up like a madman, but guys like viOLet have shown that zergs can be just as successful with a more aggressive lower eco type of play. I am not a great SCII player by any means, so take what I say with a grain of salt. But from I understand this statement basically says that you should prepare for every possibility (of pressure from the opponent) in the absence of scouting information regarding the opponents exact build - which is often hard or impossible to get for a zerg player in many game situations. A player following this maxim would likely not be very competitive since he has to make so many economical sacrifices that he is equally screwed when some kind of all-in or pressure is NOT coming, rendering the early investment of defensive infrastructure useless. Therefore competitive players make educated guesses of what the opponent is about to do before they can confirm this via scouting. Sometimes those guesses are wrong and sometimes the necessary information is gathered too late. I never claimed that you need to be prepared for every single thing, its almost impossible and not economically sound at all. What I'm saying is that you can make little sacrifices to be safer, for example instead of building a lone spine crawler build a 2nd one and place your evo chamber in a good spot to make hellion runbys harder to pull off. A spine crawler is 150 minerals if you count the drone, its the same price as 6 zerglings. Has anyone ever gg'd because they lose 6 zerglings to a lucky hellion shot early game? Does that really put you so far behind? I don't think so. There are educated guesses and then there are players trying to cut corners. 1 spine with nothing to support it is the latter, especially if you have no clue what your opponent is doing. i ahvent seen the game but if he went double factory blue flame hellion moving his evo chamber and placing an extra spine wouldnt have saved him That's impossible to say for certain. It certainly would have helped, and maybe allowed him to pump enough units to defend with a lucky surround. Either way there are many things that he could have done that would have made him better prepared, without getting too much behind. He just chose to take a risk and not do any of those things.
double fac is like double banshee if you dont have tons of spines and lings already waiting for them when they arrive then last minute preparations arent gonna help
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On February 28 2012 01:54 Bagi wrote:
I never claimed that you need to be prepared for every single thing, its almost impossible and not economically sound at all. What I'm saying is that you can make little sacrifices to be safer, for example instead of building a lone spine crawler build a 2nd one and place your evo chamber in a good spot to make hellion runbys harder to pull off. A spine crawler is 150 minerals if you count the drone, its the same price as 6 zerglings. Has anyone ever gg'd because they lose 6 zerglings to a lucky hellion shot early game? Does that really put you so far behind? I don't think so.
There are educated guesses and then there are players trying to cut corners. 1 spine with nothing to support it is the latter, especially if you have no clue what your opponent is doing.
But where do you draw the line then? There is obviously a risk continuum and the line between "cutting corners" and "educated guesses" is not clear cut. There is no "making little sacrifices to be safer" that fits every situation. Please wrap your head around that for a second. There is hardly any meaningful action you can make in the game that is good independent of what your opponent does. That is why information and scouting plays such a crucial role.
For example, forge fast expand is completely safe for protoss VZ in nearly every circumstance - unless there is an early pool. You don't die to a 6 pool if you know what to do, but it puts you behind when you FFE. It WOULD have been better then to plan for a 1 gate expo. But does that mean that going FFE is "cutting a corner"?
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On February 28 2012 03:24 vlkv wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 01:54 Bagi wrote:
I never claimed that you need to be prepared for every single thing, its almost impossible and not economically sound at all. What I'm saying is that you can make little sacrifices to be safer, for example instead of building a lone spine crawler build a 2nd one and place your evo chamber in a good spot to make hellion runbys harder to pull off. A spine crawler is 150 minerals if you count the drone, its the same price as 6 zerglings. Has anyone ever gg'd because they lose 6 zerglings to a lucky hellion shot early game? Does that really put you so far behind? I don't think so.
There are educated guesses and then there are players trying to cut corners. 1 spine with nothing to support it is the latter, especially if you have no clue what your opponent is doing. But where do you draw the line then? There is obviously a risk continuum and the line between "cutting corners" and "educated guesses" is not clear cut. There is no "making little sacrifices to be safer" that fits every situation. Please wrap your head around that for a second. There is hardly any meaningful action you can make in the game that is good independent of what your opponent does. That is why information and scouting plays such a crucial role. For example, forge fast expand is completely safe for protoss VZ in nearly every circumstance - unless there is an early pool. You don't die to a 6 pool if you know what to do, but it puts you behind when you FFE. It WOULD have been better then to plan for a 1 gate expo. But does that mean that going FFE is "cutting a corner"?
Since I'm a terran player myself, let me try to explain a terran equivalent. After you go 1rax expand as terran, you're gonna need bunkers to defend any kind of aggression. 1 bunker is mandatory, as without it the protoss can endlessly harass your marines with stalkers. 2 bunkers with a second one added on a bit later is standard as well, its good to have in case the protoss does some soft pressure with for example 4-5 gates after expanding. If the protoss commits does a heavy attack off 2 base, such as 6-7 gate or 5 gate immortal bust, you'll want to have 3-4 bunkers with scv's ready to repair them. If I am playing greedy as terran and just make 1 bunker only to die to a 6gate, I have only myself to blame because I played extremely greedy without proper knowledge of what my opponent was doing. I flipped a coin.
I don't see how trying to defend with just 1 spine crawler is any different. Common sense is what draws the line - come on, are you actually trying to make a point that droning up behind 1 spine crawler is a safe way to play by any means?
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On February 28 2012 03:37 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 03:24 vlkv wrote:On February 28 2012 01:54 Bagi wrote:
I never claimed that you need to be prepared for every single thing, its almost impossible and not economically sound at all. What I'm saying is that you can make little sacrifices to be safer, for example instead of building a lone spine crawler build a 2nd one and place your evo chamber in a good spot to make hellion runbys harder to pull off. A spine crawler is 150 minerals if you count the drone, its the same price as 6 zerglings. Has anyone ever gg'd because they lose 6 zerglings to a lucky hellion shot early game? Does that really put you so far behind? I don't think so.
There are educated guesses and then there are players trying to cut corners. 1 spine with nothing to support it is the latter, especially if you have no clue what your opponent is doing. But where do you draw the line then? There is obviously a risk continuum and the line between "cutting corners" and "educated guesses" is not clear cut. There is no "making little sacrifices to be safer" that fits every situation. Please wrap your head around that for a second. There is hardly any meaningful action you can make in the game that is good independent of what your opponent does. That is why information and scouting plays such a crucial role. For example, forge fast expand is completely safe for protoss VZ in nearly every circumstance - unless there is an early pool. You don't die to a 6 pool if you know what to do, but it puts you behind when you FFE. It WOULD have been better then to plan for a 1 gate expo. But does that mean that going FFE is "cutting a corner"? Since I'm a terran player myself, let me try to explain a terran equivalent. After you go 1rax expand as terran, you're gonna need bunkers to defend any kind of aggression. 1 bunker is mandatory, as without it the protoss can endlessly harass your marines with stalkers. 2 bunkers with a second one added on a bit later is standard as well, its good to have in case the protoss does some soft pressure with for example 4-5 gates after expanding. If the protoss commits does a heavy attack off 2 base, such as 6-7 gate or 5 gate immortal bust, you'll want to have 3-4 bunkers with scv's ready to repair them. If I am playing greedy as terran and just make 1 bunker only to die to a 6gate, I have only myself to blame because I played extremely greedy without proper knowledge of what my opponent was doing. I flipped a coin. I don't see how trying to defend with just 1 spine crawler is any different. Common sense is what draws the line - come on, are you actually trying to make a point that droning up behind 1 spine crawler is a safe way to play by any means?
becuase if the Terran goes for air play, the spines are useless
if they go for fast 3 cc the spines are useless
if they for turtle mech the spines are useless
if they go for marine tank the spines are useless
if they do ANYTHING but 2 fac blue flame hellion, the spines are completely useless
if you 1rax FE you need the bunker to survive, Zergs do not need the extra spines to survive, they need to drone up or get banelings all depending on what the opponent is doing
If you play terran dont try to tell IdrA how to paly Zerg
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On February 28 2012 03:37 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 03:24 vlkv wrote:On February 28 2012 01:54 Bagi wrote:
I never claimed that you need to be prepared for every single thing, its almost impossible and not economically sound at all. What I'm saying is that you can make little sacrifices to be safer, for example instead of building a lone spine crawler build a 2nd one and place your evo chamber in a good spot to make hellion runbys harder to pull off. A spine crawler is 150 minerals if you count the drone, its the same price as 6 zerglings. Has anyone ever gg'd because they lose 6 zerglings to a lucky hellion shot early game? Does that really put you so far behind? I don't think so.
There are educated guesses and then there are players trying to cut corners. 1 spine with nothing to support it is the latter, especially if you have no clue what your opponent is doing. But where do you draw the line then? There is obviously a risk continuum and the line between "cutting corners" and "educated guesses" is not clear cut. There is no "making little sacrifices to be safer" that fits every situation. Please wrap your head around that for a second. There is hardly any meaningful action you can make in the game that is good independent of what your opponent does. That is why information and scouting plays such a crucial role. For example, forge fast expand is completely safe for protoss VZ in nearly every circumstance - unless there is an early pool. You don't die to a 6 pool if you know what to do, but it puts you behind when you FFE. It WOULD have been better then to plan for a 1 gate expo. But does that mean that going FFE is "cutting a corner"? Since I'm a terran player myself, let me try to explain a terran equivalent. After you go 1rax expand as terran, you're gonna need bunkers to defend any kind of aggression. 1 bunker is mandatory, as without it the protoss can endlessly harass your marines with stalkers. 2 bunkers with a second one added on a bit later is standard as well, its good to have in case the protoss does some soft pressure with for example 4-5 gates after expanding. If the protoss commits does a heavy attack off 2 base, such as 6-7 gate or 5 gate immortal bust, you'll want to have 3-4 bunkers with scv's ready to repair them. If I am playing greedy as terran and just make 1 bunker only to die to a 6gate, I have only myself to blame because I played extremely greedy without proper knowledge of what my opponent was doing. I flipped a coin. I don't see how trying to defend with just 1 spine crawler is any different. Common sense is what draws the line - come on, are you actually trying to make a point that droning up behind 1 spine crawler is a safe way to play by any means?
Big difference is you can salvage a bunker, you can't salvage a spine crawler.
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Actually spines are never useless, since even if you don't need them right away you can always move them around and use them to defend from drops or just to control certain areas, even if it only means delaying the terran push its still usually worth it.
I'm actually not telling Idra how to play zerg either, I'm pointing out to anyone who might not know it yet that by not building an extra spine he does risk certain all-ins just flat out killing him. Idra knows it himself I'm sure, but he decided to take the more economic route that game, which ended up being a mistake. That's Starcraft 2 for you.
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On February 28 2012 03:51 Bagi wrote:
Actually spines are never useless, since even if you don't need them right away you can always move them around and use them to defend from drops or just to control certain areas, even if it only means delaying the terran push its still usually worth it.
I'm actually not telling Idra how to play zerg either, I'm pointing out to anyone who might not know it yet that by not building an extra spine he does risk certain all-ins just flat out killing him. Idra knows it himself I'm sure, but he decided to take the more economic route that game, which ended up being a mistake. That's Starcraft 2 for you.
ya actually building an extra spine can be quite useless
delaying a push by 2 seconds wont save you in the early game, and late game youd be building 10+ spines anyway with 3k minerals left over so having one spine laying around didnt help
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I'm not gonna say that an extra spine is always gonna be worth its weight in gold, but it still has its uses even if the attack does not come right away. Bottom line is that building one spine that isn't immediately useful is never going to lose a game for you, but not building that extra spine just might.
Also the mass spine is extreme lategame stuff, there would most likely be many attacks before that where just having an extra spine would be useful.
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On February 28 2012 03:37 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 03:24 vlkv wrote:On February 28 2012 01:54 Bagi wrote:
I never claimed that you need to be prepared for every single thing, its almost impossible and not economically sound at all. What I'm saying is that you can make little sacrifices to be safer, for example instead of building a lone spine crawler build a 2nd one and place your evo chamber in a good spot to make hellion runbys harder to pull off. A spine crawler is 150 minerals if you count the drone, its the same price as 6 zerglings. Has anyone ever gg'd because they lose 6 zerglings to a lucky hellion shot early game? Does that really put you so far behind? I don't think so.
There are educated guesses and then there are players trying to cut corners. 1 spine with nothing to support it is the latter, especially if you have no clue what your opponent is doing. But where do you draw the line then? There is obviously a risk continuum and the line between "cutting corners" and "educated guesses" is not clear cut. There is no "making little sacrifices to be safer" that fits every situation. Please wrap your head around that for a second. There is hardly any meaningful action you can make in the game that is good independent of what your opponent does. That is why information and scouting plays such a crucial role. For example, forge fast expand is completely safe for protoss VZ in nearly every circumstance - unless there is an early pool. You don't die to a 6 pool if you know what to do, but it puts you behind when you FFE. It WOULD have been better then to plan for a 1 gate expo. But does that mean that going FFE is "cutting a corner"? Since I'm a terran player myself, let me try to explain a terran equivalent. After you go 1rax expand as terran, you're gonna need bunkers to defend any kind of aggression. 1 bunker is mandatory, as without it the protoss can endlessly harass your marines with stalkers. 2 bunkers with a second one added on a bit later is standard as well, its good to have in case the protoss does some soft pressure with for example 4-5 gates after expanding. If the protoss commits does a heavy attack off 2 base, such as 6-7 gate or 5 gate immortal bust, you'll want to have 3-4 bunkers with scv's ready to repair them. If I am playing greedy as terran and just make 1 bunker only to die to a 6gate, I have only myself to blame because I played extremely greedy without proper knowledge of what my opponent was doing. I flipped a coin. I don't see how trying to defend with just 1 spine crawler is any different. Common sense is what draws the line - come on, are you actually trying to make a point that droning up behind 1 spine crawler is a safe way to play by any means?
I say that it depends on the situation and that it is a decision that is made before the background of a players practice and competitive experience. This experience can lead you to do things wrong, but there is a risk connected to every decision including the decision to place more than one spine crawler. And I think that the player with greater experience has the potential to make the superior decision - even if there will be cases, where the casual player is right and Idra is wrong.
With that I am not immunizing Idra's decision making by any means btw. I just feel that it is not legitimate to compare the decision making of a layman to that of an elite player because the two compete with different populations of players and therefore make vastly different experiences that lead to different decision preferences in similar situations. Therefore, in order to rate the effectiveness of Idra's decision making it has to be compared to that of his peers in comparable situations. Just because I am completely fine in making 2 cannons after FFE in nearly every circumstance against the competition I play against does not mean that Naniwa will be as well.
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On February 28 2012 04:00 Bagi wrote:
I'm not gonna say that an extra spine is always gonna be worth its weight in gold, but it still has its uses even if the attack does not come right away. Bottom line is that building one spine that isn't immediately useful is never going to lose a game for you, but not building that extra spine just might.
Also the mass spine is extreme lategame stuff, there would most likely be many attacks before that where just having an extra spine would be useful.
i think your overestimating how mcuh of a game based on small advantages Starcraft is
by making one spine your down 150minerals, which means if you didnt make that spine you could have 3 drones or a queen instead
if your opponent is doing a build like 3cc or is planning an earlyish marine tank push those extra drones could be key to actually stopping the push
lets say they do a early marine push and you hold it off, those three drones you couldnt make earlier now means you have much less minerals available and much less drones since you had to spend alot on defending that push (while your spines sway in the breeze useless) this means your third gets saturatesd mcuh slower, you dont get as many mutalisks as you like, cant tech as fast cant get that 4th when you would have liked to
early econ management is very important as Zerg you cant jsut go throwing up tons of spines jsut becuase he might attack
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On February 28 2012 03:51 Bagi wrote:
Actually spines are never useless, since even if you don't need them right away you can always move them around and use them to defend from drops or just to control certain areas, even if it only means delaying the terran push its still usually worth it.
I'm actually not telling Idra how to play zerg either, I'm pointing out to anyone who might not know it yet that by not building an extra spine he does risk certain all-ins just flat out killing him. Idra knows it himself I'm sure, but he decided to take the more economic route that game, which ended up being a mistake. That's Starcraft 2 for you.
Totally agree with this perfectly reasonable post.
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On February 28 2012 02:01 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 01:54 Bagi wrote:On February 28 2012 01:25 vlkv wrote:On February 28 2012 00:50 Bagi wrote:
Of course, but making one round of units, building a pre-emptive roach warren or just an extra spine can make you a lot more prepared for these types of plays. You can't always know whats coming, but you can be better prepared.
You can do the Ret style and just drone up like a madman, but guys like viOLet have shown that zergs can be just as successful with a more aggressive lower eco type of play. I am not a great SCII player by any means, so take what I say with a grain of salt. But from I understand this statement basically says that you should prepare for every possibility (of pressure from the opponent) in the absence of scouting information regarding the opponents exact build - which is often hard or impossible to get for a zerg player in many game situations. A player following this maxim would likely not be very competitive since he has to make so many economical sacrifices that he is equally screwed when some kind of all-in or pressure is NOT coming, rendering the early investment of defensive infrastructure useless. Therefore competitive players make educated guesses of what the opponent is about to do before they can confirm this via scouting. Sometimes those guesses are wrong and sometimes the necessary information is gathered too late. I never claimed that you need to be prepared for every single thing, its almost impossible and not economically sound at all. What I'm saying is that you can make little sacrifices to be safer, for example instead of building a lone spine crawler build a 2nd one and place your evo chamber in a good spot to make hellion runbys harder to pull off. A spine crawler is 150 minerals if you count the drone, its the same price as 6 zerglings. Has anyone ever gg'd because they lose 6 zerglings to a lucky hellion shot early game? Does that really put you so far behind? I don't think so. There are educated guesses and then there are players trying to cut corners. 1 spine with nothing to support it is the latter, especially if you have no clue what your opponent is doing. i ahvent seen the game but if he went double factory blue flame hellion moving his evo chamber and placing an extra spine wouldnt have saved him
there was no blue flame, alive went into expansion with the push so it was less all-in... IMO extra spines def. would have helped and he would have had time to wall-off properly and get roaches out (if he had a properly-timed roach warren)
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On February 28 2012 04:22 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 04:00 Bagi wrote:
I'm not gonna say that an extra spine is always gonna be worth its weight in gold, but it still has its uses even if the attack does not come right away. Bottom line is that building one spine that isn't immediately useful is never going to lose a game for you, but not building that extra spine just might.
Also the mass spine is extreme lategame stuff, there would most likely be many attacks before that where just having an extra spine would be useful. i think your overestimating how mcuh of a game based on small advantages Starcraft is by making one spine your down 150minerals, which means if you didnt make that spine you could have 3 drones or a queen instead if your opponent is doing a build like 3cc or is planning an earlyish marine tank push those extra drones could be key to actually stopping the push lets say they do a early marine push and you hold it off, those three drones you couldnt make earlier now means you have much less minerals available and much less drones since you had to spend alot on defending that push (while your spines sway in the breeze useless) this means your third gets saturatesd mcuh slower, you dont get as many mutalisks as you like, cant tech as fast cant get that 4th when you would have liked to early econ management is very important as Zerg you cant jsut go throwing up tons of spines jsut becuase he might attack
i agree every little thing matters but I think there is a difference between sneaking in a few extra drones here and there and neglecting the possibility of early aggression from your opponent.
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there was no blue flame, alive went into expansion with the push so it was less all-in... IMO extra spines def. would have helped and he would have had time to wall-off properly and get roaches out (if he had a properly-timed roach warren)
of coruse there would ahve been time, but if you dont know its coming you never have time
i agree every little thing matters but I think there is a difference between sneaking in a few extra drones here and there and neglecting the possibility of early aggression from your opponent.
you have to neglect the possibility of some types of early agression, its why Zerg go 15 hatch if a Zerg tried to accomodate every type of early agression theyd be walling in there natural while massing lings/bane while going to lair fast and dropping a ton of spores
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IdrA's group for IPl4 got posted. Right now it's just
IdrA
MMA
Bomber
The other two members of the group will be people from the open bracket. MMA and Bomber are very good of course but IdrA is capable of playing beastly ZvT and he's beaten Bomber before. I think IdrA's placement in the group will depend heavily on the other two members of the group.
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Wow...WOOOOOWW... How unlucky is it possible to get? -.-
Just glad we're going to see some high level ZvT for once...
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EPT
