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Personal attacks in this thread will draw a temp ban. |
On February 28 2012 08:34 Phobbers wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 08:30 Aocowns wrote:On February 28 2012 08:25 VashTS wrote:On February 28 2012 08:17 Aocowns wrote:On February 28 2012 08:13 Bagration wrote:On February 28 2012 08:04 thegiantnome wrote:
IdrA has a fantastic chance in this tournament. ZvT being his best matchup and he's been training in the slayers house with some of the best terrans in the world I see him getting out of his group going 4-2. IdrA has been looking good lately. Anyone saying "ohh he's bad" is so wrong. He hasn't been winning but he's been playing fantastic games versus players like lucky, nestea, oz. He is playing the best players in the world and playing damn good games. I think that sometime in the next three tournaments IdrA breaks out of his shell and kicks some serious ass!!! Here's the problem though. Bomber and MMA are both very macro oriented Terrans. They take economic risks to become unstoppable in the mid and late games. Idra is not someone who punishes with roach-ling-baneling busts or early pools. It's definitely going to be a hard one for Idra to win. But living in the same house as MMA could setup some mind games though. No, Idra is the one who does a lot of ling bling aggression, even before saturating his own 3rd. He seems to be doing that against triple CC builds on ladder sometimes, with great success if I recall correctly Except for when they go fast Siege mode to troll Baneling agression, like that one Terran did (ThorZainE?) to him on Antiga. whut? How recent was this? I've watched every Idra game this year, and that did not happen >_>. Are you referring to the ''I don't give a fuck, so I'll just roach all in and a-move without effort'' game in that teamleague? In any case, Antiga is not a good map for that type of aggression either way, but some maps are, imo. It was in one of the team leagues from IPL or NASL. He went for a roach/bane all-in and Thorzain countered it by going fast siege. Also, as of late there has been some scenarios on his stream where he has done a 2-3 base sling/bling push against a terran, sometimes said push has mutas. If I recall the pushes usually occur around 145-160 supply.
Yeah, that's what I meant. It was pure roaches though
FUCK. Forgot it was team league. Comment withdrawn, sir. =p
Edit: To clarify, I don't thik it was the 3x Orbital, either.
It was a triple orbital with early siege, I am 90% certain :3
dont forget it is SLAYERS_MMA so IdrA has probably gotten a good chunk of practice against his style
and hes beat Bomber before going to Korea
id say he has a strong chance at getting out of the group
He beat Bomber almost half a year ago, though. Both metagame and players have changed. Though it seems Idra has taken a turnfor the better, and Bomber for the worse :s. He was playing better than I've ever seen him play o.o (only rivalled by that 3-0 against Puma). He only seems to engage GRACK-mode on MLG mainstage though :c
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On February 28 2012 03:51 Bagi wrote:
Actually spines are never useless, since even if you don't need them right away you can always move them around and use them to defend from drops or just to control certain areas, even if it only means delaying the terran push its still usually worth it.
I'm actually not telling Idra how to play zerg either, I'm pointing out to anyone who might not know it yet that by not building an extra spine he does risk certain all-ins just flat out killing him. Idra knows it himself I'm sure, but he decided to take the more economic route that game, which ended up being a mistake. That's Starcraft 2 for you.
that's not entirely true though.
A spine is 150 minerals and a drone which can set you far back economically if you just build one blindly (and build it too early)
It's not Idra's fault that he doesn't build spine, every zerg would get one whenever they scouted/educated guess that something early rush or cheesy is coming, not just build one blindly.
2 spines are already costing more than a hatchery, it will delay your macro hatch/3rd queen etc and the impact will just snowballed to mid and late game.
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Canada8840 Posts
On February 28 2012 08:37 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 03:51 Bagi wrote:
Actually spines are never useless, since even if you don't need them right away you can always move them around and use them to defend from drops or just to control certain areas, even if it only means delaying the terran push its still usually worth it.
I'm actually not telling Idra how to play zerg either, I'm pointing out to anyone who might not know it yet that by not building an extra spine he does risk certain all-ins just flat out killing him. Idra knows it himself I'm sure, but he decided to take the more economic route that game, which ended up being a mistake. That's Starcraft 2 for you. that's not entirely true though. A spine is 150 minerals and a drone which can set you far back economically if you just build one blindly (and build it too early) It's not Idra's fault that he doesn't build spine, every zerg would get one whenever they scouted/educated guess that something early rush or cheesy is coming, not just build one blindly. 2 spines are already costing more than a hatchery, it will delay your macro hatch/3rd queen etc and the impact will just snowballed to mid and late game.
its 100 minerals +drone, so 150 minerals and 2 spines cost 50 minerals less then a hatchery factering in replacing the drone
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On February 28 2012 08:36 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 08:34 Phobbers wrote:On February 28 2012 08:30 Aocowns wrote:On February 28 2012 08:25 VashTS wrote:On February 28 2012 08:17 Aocowns wrote:On February 28 2012 08:13 Bagration wrote:On February 28 2012 08:04 thegiantnome wrote:
IdrA has a fantastic chance in this tournament. ZvT being his best matchup and he's been training in the slayers house with some of the best terrans in the world I see him getting out of his group going 4-2. IdrA has been looking good lately. Anyone saying "ohh he's bad" is so wrong. He hasn't been winning but he's been playing fantastic games versus players like lucky, nestea, oz. He is playing the best players in the world and playing damn good games. I think that sometime in the next three tournaments IdrA breaks out of his shell and kicks some serious ass!!! Here's the problem though. Bomber and MMA are both very macro oriented Terrans. They take economic risks to become unstoppable in the mid and late games. Idra is not someone who punishes with roach-ling-baneling busts or early pools. It's definitely going to be a hard one for Idra to win. But living in the same house as MMA could setup some mind games though. No, Idra is the one who does a lot of ling bling aggression, even before saturating his own 3rd. He seems to be doing that against triple CC builds on ladder sometimes, with great success if I recall correctly Except for when they go fast Siege mode to troll Baneling agression, like that one Terran did (ThorZainE?) to him on Antiga. whut? How recent was this? I've watched every Idra game this year, and that did not happen >_>. Are you referring to the ''I don't give a fuck, so I'll just roach all in and a-move without effort'' game in that teamleague? In any case, Antiga is not a good map for that type of aggression either way, but some maps are, imo. It was in one of the team leagues from IPL or NASL. He went for a roach/bane all-in and Thorzain countered it by going fast siege. Also, as of late there has been some scenarios on his stream where he has done a 2-3 base sling/bling push against a terran, sometimes said push has mutas. If I recall the pushes usually occur around 145-160 supply. Yeah, that's what I meant. It was pure roaches though Show nested quote +FUCK. Forgot it was team league. Comment withdrawn, sir. =p
Edit: To clarify, I don't thik it was the 3x Orbital, either. It was a triple orbital with early siege, I am 90% certain :3 Show nested quote +dont forget it is SLAYERS_MMA so IdrA has probably gotten a good chunk of practice against his style
and hes beat Bomber before going to Korea
id say he has a strong chance at getting out of the group He beat Bomber almost half a year ago, though. Both metagame and players have changed. Though it seems Idra has taken a turnfor the better, and Bomber for the worse :s. He was playing better than I've ever seen him play o.o (only rivalled by that 3-0 against Puma). He only seems to engage GRACK-mode on MLG mainstage though :c
If I recall correctly, it wasn't pure roach against thorzain. It was a roach/bane combo. I vividly remember the casters criticizing his timing of it since Morrow had done it to Puma just the game before.
Edit: Just checked the vod to confirm, it was roach/bane and it was triple CC.
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Canada8840 Posts
He beat Bomber almost half a year ago, though. Both metagame and players have changed. Though it seems Idra has taken a turnfor the better, and Bomber for the worse :s. He was playing better than I've ever seen him play o.o (only rivalled by that 3-0 against Puma). He only seems to engage GRACK-mode on MLG mainstage though :c
Last edit: 2012-02-28 08:41:48
i dont think the Metagame has changed really, TvZ doesnt really have a completely standard BO and everything Bomber did is still legit strats and for the msot part both of them were doing really standard stuff
its not like Bomber won with 5 rax reaper or 2 barracks proxy rax or with a lucky GF hellion runby the only change since then was ghost nerf
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On February 28 2012 08:45 Phobbers wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 08:36 Aocowns wrote:On February 28 2012 08:34 Phobbers wrote:On February 28 2012 08:30 Aocowns wrote:On February 28 2012 08:25 VashTS wrote:On February 28 2012 08:17 Aocowns wrote:On February 28 2012 08:13 Bagration wrote:On February 28 2012 08:04 thegiantnome wrote:
IdrA has a fantastic chance in this tournament. ZvT being his best matchup and he's been training in the slayers house with some of the best terrans in the world I see him getting out of his group going 4-2. IdrA has been looking good lately. Anyone saying "ohh he's bad" is so wrong. He hasn't been winning but he's been playing fantastic games versus players like lucky, nestea, oz. He is playing the best players in the world and playing damn good games. I think that sometime in the next three tournaments IdrA breaks out of his shell and kicks some serious ass!!! Here's the problem though. Bomber and MMA are both very macro oriented Terrans. They take economic risks to become unstoppable in the mid and late games. Idra is not someone who punishes with roach-ling-baneling busts or early pools. It's definitely going to be a hard one for Idra to win. But living in the same house as MMA could setup some mind games though. No, Idra is the one who does a lot of ling bling aggression, even before saturating his own 3rd. He seems to be doing that against triple CC builds on ladder sometimes, with great success if I recall correctly Except for when they go fast Siege mode to troll Baneling agression, like that one Terran did (ThorZainE?) to him on Antiga. whut? How recent was this? I've watched every Idra game this year, and that did not happen >_>. Are you referring to the ''I don't give a fuck, so I'll just roach all in and a-move without effort'' game in that teamleague? In any case, Antiga is not a good map for that type of aggression either way, but some maps are, imo. It was in one of the team leagues from IPL or NASL. He went for a roach/bane all-in and Thorzain countered it by going fast siege. Also, as of late there has been some scenarios on his stream where he has done a 2-3 base sling/bling push against a terran, sometimes said push has mutas. If I recall the pushes usually occur around 145-160 supply. Yeah, that's what I meant. It was pure roaches though FUCK. Forgot it was team league. Comment withdrawn, sir. =p
Edit: To clarify, I don't thik it was the 3x Orbital, either. It was a triple orbital with early siege, I am 90% certain :3 dont forget it is SLAYERS_MMA so IdrA has probably gotten a good chunk of practice against his style
and hes beat Bomber before going to Korea
id say he has a strong chance at getting out of the group He beat Bomber almost half a year ago, though. Both metagame and players have changed. Though it seems Idra has taken a turnfor the better, and Bomber for the worse :s. He was playing better than I've ever seen him play o.o (only rivalled by that 3-0 against Puma). He only seems to engage GRACK-mode on MLG mainstage though :c If I recall correctly, it wasn't pure roach against thorzain. It was a roach/bane combo. I vividly remember the casters criticizing his timing of it since Morrow had done it to Puma just the game before. Edit: Just checked the vod to confirm, it was roach/bane and it was triple CC.
I stand corrected.
Ahhh, what I wouldn't give for an Idra streaming session now :C
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Canada8840 Posts
On February 28 2012 08:51 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 08:45 Phobbers wrote:On February 28 2012 08:36 Aocowns wrote:On February 28 2012 08:34 Phobbers wrote:On February 28 2012 08:30 Aocowns wrote:On February 28 2012 08:25 VashTS wrote:On February 28 2012 08:17 Aocowns wrote:On February 28 2012 08:13 Bagration wrote:On February 28 2012 08:04 thegiantnome wrote:
IdrA has a fantastic chance in this tournament. ZvT being his best matchup and he's been training in the slayers house with some of the best terrans in the world I see him getting out of his group going 4-2. IdrA has been looking good lately. Anyone saying "ohh he's bad" is so wrong. He hasn't been winning but he's been playing fantastic games versus players like lucky, nestea, oz. He is playing the best players in the world and playing damn good games. I think that sometime in the next three tournaments IdrA breaks out of his shell and kicks some serious ass!!! Here's the problem though. Bomber and MMA are both very macro oriented Terrans. They take economic risks to become unstoppable in the mid and late games. Idra is not someone who punishes with roach-ling-baneling busts or early pools. It's definitely going to be a hard one for Idra to win. But living in the same house as MMA could setup some mind games though. No, Idra is the one who does a lot of ling bling aggression, even before saturating his own 3rd. He seems to be doing that against triple CC builds on ladder sometimes, with great success if I recall correctly Except for when they go fast Siege mode to troll Baneling agression, like that one Terran did (ThorZainE?) to him on Antiga. whut? How recent was this? I've watched every Idra game this year, and that did not happen >_>. Are you referring to the ''I don't give a fuck, so I'll just roach all in and a-move without effort'' game in that teamleague? In any case, Antiga is not a good map for that type of aggression either way, but some maps are, imo. It was in one of the team leagues from IPL or NASL. He went for a roach/bane all-in and Thorzain countered it by going fast siege. Also, as of late there has been some scenarios on his stream where he has done a 2-3 base sling/bling push against a terran, sometimes said push has mutas. If I recall the pushes usually occur around 145-160 supply. Yeah, that's what I meant. It was pure roaches though FUCK. Forgot it was team league. Comment withdrawn, sir. =p
Edit: To clarify, I don't thik it was the 3x Orbital, either. It was a triple orbital with early siege, I am 90% certain :3 dont forget it is SLAYERS_MMA so IdrA has probably gotten a good chunk of practice against his style
and hes beat Bomber before going to Korea
id say he has a strong chance at getting out of the group He beat Bomber almost half a year ago, though. Both metagame and players have changed. Though it seems Idra has taken a turnfor the better, and Bomber for the worse :s. He was playing better than I've ever seen him play o.o (only rivalled by that 3-0 against Puma). He only seems to engage GRACK-mode on MLG mainstage though :c If I recall correctly, it wasn't pure roach against thorzain. It was a roach/bane combo. I vividly remember the casters criticizing his timing of it since Morrow had done it to Puma just the game before. Edit: Just checked the vod to confirm, it was roach/bane and it was triple CC. I stand corrected. Ahhh, what I wouldn't give for an Idra streaming session now :C
with commentary if life would be so great
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On February 28 2012 08:51 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +He beat Bomber almost half a year ago, though. Both metagame and players have changed. Though it seems Idra has taken a turnfor the better, and Bomber for the worse :s. He was playing better than I've ever seen him play o.o (only rivalled by that 3-0 against Puma). He only seems to engage GRACK-mode on MLG mainstage though :c
Last edit: 2012-02-28 08:41:48 i dont think the Metagame has changed really, TvZ doesnt really have a completely standard BO and everything Bomber did is still legit strats and for the msot part both of them were doing really standard stuff its not like Bomber won with 5 rax reaper or 2 barracks proxy rax or with a lucky GF hellion runby the only change since then was ghost nerf
In addition to that, both mech and triple CC has gotten a lot more popular. So has early roach busts as well. At least, in the games I've seen, these things occur more lately. Neither of the players are very likely to either go mech or roach bane bust, though, that's true. and I don't remember if Ghosts were a large part of Bomber's play either? as far as I recall, it was a very standard, upgrade heavy tank marine style
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@Phobbers: Thank you for checking. =)
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Canada8840 Posts
On February 28 2012 08:55 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 08:51 Forikorder wrote:He beat Bomber almost half a year ago, though. Both metagame and players have changed. Though it seems Idra has taken a turnfor the better, and Bomber for the worse :s. He was playing better than I've ever seen him play o.o (only rivalled by that 3-0 against Puma). He only seems to engage GRACK-mode on MLG mainstage though :c
Last edit: 2012-02-28 08:41:48 i dont think the Metagame has changed really, TvZ doesnt really have a completely standard BO and everything Bomber did is still legit strats and for the msot part both of them were doing really standard stuff its not like Bomber won with 5 rax reaper or 2 barracks proxy rax or with a lucky GF hellion runby the only change since then was ghost nerf In addition to that, both mech and triple CC has gotten a lot more popular. So has early roach busts as well. At least, in the games I've seen, these things occur more lately. Neither of the players are very likely to either go mech or roach bane bust, though, that's true. and I don't remember if Ghosts were a large part of Bomber's play either? as far as I recall, it was a very standard, upgrade heavy tank marine style
i dont think they were a big aprt of his paly, he probably got some in most of the games becuase i remember them being big macro games but i dont think it was anything insane like20+ ghosts
i really think IdrA will beat him when they meet again, hes done it once and hes gotten better since and hes been chomping at the bit for a good chance to face a terran and rip him apart
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I think that IdrA is a really good Starcraft II player, and I will leave this heart here: <3
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On February 28 2012 09:19 ReturnStroke wrote:
I think that IdrA is a really good Starcraft II player, and I will leave this heart here: <3
Bes post I've seen in a long time in this fanclub :D
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IdrA keeps getting insane groups. D:
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On February 28 2012 09:58 KevinIX wrote:
IdrA keeps getting insane groups. D:
Most groups are insane since the Koreans started participating in foreign tournaments. This isn't late 2010/early 2011 anymore, it's getting increasingly harder for foreigners to duck Koreans and the trend will only continue as long as tourneys pay big $$$. Although Huk did manage to do so this past mlg. Made all the way to RO4 before facing Oz.
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I had to read through every single page of that IPL thread to find one mention of the fact that IdrA beat Bomber last time they played. I did get to see plenty of geniuses talk about how fucked he is and laugh at their own jokes. Such is life as an IdrA fan.
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My perception of IdrA (this really applies to most foreigners, but especially IdrA) is that he really needs to get steam going before he can really be in the mindset to play Korean vs. Korean. For example, look at his run at MLG orlando. He was a monster through the prelim brackets, and beat some good koreans when they played him. But, at providence, a moth or two later, when he played vs Leenock after being seeded high up, he got steamrolled. If he's playing with a good ingoing mindset, he tends to win a lot
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On February 28 2012 10:11 RUS RO DAH!!! wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 09:58 KevinIX wrote:
IdrA keeps getting insane groups. D: Most groups are insane since the Koreans started participating in foreign tournaments. This isn't late 2010/early 2011 anymore, it's getting increasingly harder for foreigners to duck Koreans and the trend will only continue as long as tourneys pay big $$$. Although Huk did manage to do so this past mlg. Made all the way to RO4 before facing Oz.
true, but he would have faced mvp the round before had ret not beat him.
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Canada8840 Posts
On February 28 2012 10:27 BaconofWar wrote:
My perception of IdrA (this really applies to most foreigners, but especially IdrA) is that he really needs to get steam going before he can really be in the mindset to play Korean vs. Korean. For example, look at his run at MLG orlando. He was a monster through the prelim brackets, and beat some good koreans when they played him. But, at providence, a moth or two later, when he played vs Leenock after being seeded high up, he got steamrolled. If he's playing with a good ingoing mindset, he tends to win a lot
Leenock was on fire during tha tperiod though and it was ZvZ so probably not a mindset problem
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IdrA stay confident! I have this weird feeling that idra is going to give up
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On February 28 2012 10:27 BaconofWar wrote:
My perception of IdrA (this really applies to most foreigners, but especially IdrA) is that he really needs to get steam going before he can really be in the mindset to play Korean vs. Korean. For example, look at his run at MLG orlando. He was a monster through the prelim brackets, and beat some good koreans when they played him. But, at providence, a moth or two later, when he played vs Leenock after being seeded high up, he got steamrolled. If he's playing with a good ingoing mindset, he tends to win a lot
Well, doesnt this also bear out in his statistics? Wins first game, has a huge win %, loses first game and has huge lose%.
Actually I am shocked that more people dont cheese him their first game in a BO anything series. Such a huge incentive.
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EPT
