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On June 08 2015 02:05 Ryuhou)aS( wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 02:01 Toadesstern wrote:
I think for most people it was something like this with SAO:
episode 1-2: Wow shit, this could actually be amazing. This is on it's way to be a 7/10 or 8/10 show!!!
episode 3 up to arc 1 end: Wow... that had so much more potential... meh, still a 6/10. Not bad but I hoped it would have been so much better
start of arc 2: the fuck is this
end of arc 2: why didn't I just call it a day after arc1...
so the realization came quite quickly and had nothing to do with it being famous. You can quite accurately point out at what point in time most people thought it's going south. I really did like it a lot at first (first 3 episodes or so) but disliking the 2nd arc has nothing to do with being a hipster. this is a little better i guess...I'm still here wondering..."what was it in those episodes 3 - arc 1 end that made you start disliking it more?"
I was expecting them to go through the dungeon and see how they did that. Thus realy liking episode 1 and 2 with the stage 1 bossfight and everything being really cool. And suddenly episode 3 was "a week later, we're on floor 7" or some crap like that and I just facepalmed at that moment because I really wanted to see that. Only got worse when they spend what felt like 10 episodes for Kirito x Asuna at the lake. Sure that's important as well but really felt super rushed to me and priorities being off.
I think people mentioned that they went about it in more detail in the anime than the LN (no idea if that's true, didn't read) so the source is apparently even worse in that regard but I didn't know that going into it 
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On June 08 2015 02:23 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 02:05 Ryuhou)aS( wrote:On June 08 2015 02:01 Toadesstern wrote:
I think for most people it was something like this with SAO:
episode 1-2: Wow shit, this could actually be amazing. This is on it's way to be a 7/10 or 8/10 show!!!
episode 3 up to arc 1 end: Wow... that had so much more potential... meh, still a 6/10. Not bad but I hoped it would have been so much better
start of arc 2: the fuck is this
end of arc 2: why didn't I just call it a day after arc1...
so the realization came quite quickly and had nothing to do with it being famous. You can quite accurately point out at what point in time most people thought it's going south. I really did like it a lot at first (first 3 episodes or so) but disliking the 2nd arc has nothing to do with being a hipster. this is a little better i guess...I'm still here wondering..."what was it in those episodes 3 - arc 1 end that made you start disliking it more?" I was expecting them to go through the dungeon and see how they did that. Thus realy liking episode 1 and 2 with the stage 1 bossfight and everything being really cool. And suddenly episode 3 was "a week later, we're on floor 7" or some crap like that and I just facepalmed at that moment because I really wanted to see that. Only got worse when they spend what felt like 10 episodes for Kirito x Asuna at the lake. Sure that's important as well but really felt super rushed to me and priorities being off. I think people mentioned that they went about it in more detail in the anime than the LN (no idea if that's true, didn't read) so the source is apparently even worse in that regard but I didn't know that going into it
Yep, the source jumps from episode 1 all the way to the episode were Kirito and Asuna team up where they eventually fight that floor boss. So they skilled like 70 floors or something in Vol1 of the LN. Vol2 has the side stories the anime crammed in between.
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SAO isn't even the biggest offender, because it's legitimately not one of the best anime of all times ;D.
But I've read stuff in this thread about Steins;Gate, Death Note or Code Geass that sounded pretty damn hipsterish to me. What an awful bunch of series amirite. Especially those parts 2! Hated those.
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On June 08 2015 02:23 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 02:05 Ryuhou)aS( wrote:On June 08 2015 02:01 Toadesstern wrote:
I think for most people it was something like this with SAO:
episode 1-2: Wow shit, this could actually be amazing. This is on it's way to be a 7/10 or 8/10 show!!!
episode 3 up to arc 1 end: Wow... that had so much more potential... meh, still a 6/10. Not bad but I hoped it would have been so much better
start of arc 2: the fuck is this
end of arc 2: why didn't I just call it a day after arc1...
so the realization came quite quickly and had nothing to do with it being famous. You can quite accurately point out at what point in time most people thought it's going south. I really did like it a lot at first (first 3 episodes or so) but disliking the 2nd arc has nothing to do with being a hipster. this is a little better i guess...I'm still here wondering..."what was it in those episodes 3 - arc 1 end that made you start disliking it more?" I was expecting them to go through the dungeon and see how they did that. Thus realy liking episode 1 and 2 with the stage 1 bossfight and everything being really cool. And suddenly episode 3 was "a week later, we're on floor 7" or some crap like that and I just facepalmed at that moment because I really wanted to see that. Only got worse when they spend what felt like 10 episodes for Kirito x Asuna at the lake. Sure that's important as well but really felt super rushed to me and priorities being off. I think people mentioned that they went about it in more detail in the anime than the LN (no idea if that's true, didn't read) so the source is apparently even worse in that regard but I didn't know that going into it
this makes sense. I also wanted to see more of them going through the dungeon but i feel like there still needs to be a balance. Like if it was solely going through the dungeon and fight after fight it would get stale pretty quickly imo.
It's also interesting to think about the source and who's read it and how that effects what they feel about SAO in general (both source and anime) and how they feel about the anime itself. personally i don't do sources (99% of the time) so my opinions are almost always strictly based on the anime.
edit: i want to add that while the timeskips are annoying they're also something I kind of liked. I think they force the viewer to engage more....thinking more about the story and what happens that isn't shown.
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If you want what I think the flaws are then I can go quickly over them. Meant to be studying but so over that
+ Show Spoiler +1. The World - This one is something that annoys me almost more than Mrs. Fleshlight. The premise of SAO is that it's set in a virtual reality world modeled as an MMO. Games by their very nature have to follow a set of "rules" in how they operate. That's just how computers work. SAO takes this starting point and discards it pretty quickly. It only uses the fact that it's an MMO in order to force this "death game" narrative. That's it. All the limits and rules surrounding a game are lost. Now this wouldn't be so bad if it was addressed that this is an "organic" game but initially and every now and then it acts like there are actual rules like spell cooldowns etc. So it lands up having these huge inconsistencies where only every now and then it decides that it wants to adhere by the rules when it's convenient to do so.
2. "Beaters" plot(Or random ideas never capitalized on) - This makes no sense to me. Essentially there's a subset of the playerbase that have played the game before yet these people get somehow ostracized by everyone else because of this fact? Erm what the fuck? Ok, I can deal with that stupidity if the story actually dealt with this in a meaningful way. Instead it's merely a random idea thrown out there and touched on every now and then but not really progressed. This happens a lot in the story. There are countless ideas in the story that just appear once or twice that never get expanded upon.
3. Characters(Asuna) - The greatest tragedy in the story. When we first meet Asuna she's this top tier player that is a bit of a loner much like our MC. They do a bit of bonding at the start over something she doesn't know then in a battle together. So far it's a decent start. She hasn't really developed much past the "strong mysterious female character" but there's still plenty of story left to do this. What happens next is an abomination. Asuna over the course of the story goes from this potential strong and interesting female lead to the stereotypical maiden in distress. She exists merely as a tool for our MC to actually be serious. This is only over the first half of the first season. Over the second arc she becomes ever less of a character by becoming more and more a mere object used to propel the story.
4. Characters(Kirito) - I think this has been talked about enough. Kirito effectively removes all tension from the story because he is able to create whatever rules he wants in order to progress the plot. Nothing can't be solved without kirito. This makes all other characters in the story obsolete. Even the attempt to give him more depth by having his stupidity kill a random friend barely did anything as it's relegated to being mere flashbacks every now and then to try illicit an emotional response from us. The story would be more interesting without him in it
5. Characters(rest) - They are meaningless fodder used to just pad out the story.
At it's core SAO is a generic fantasy story with some harem elements. I have more detailed criticisms about it but my mind is a bit fuzzy with chem lol. IF you still want to talk we can do so sometime this week.
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I am reading mahou tsukai no yome and I'm enjoying it so far. It feels like a "drinking tea" sort of story and I like those kinds of story
On June 08 2015 02:23 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 02:05 Ryuhou)aS( wrote:On June 08 2015 02:01 Toadesstern wrote:
I think for most people it was something like this with SAO:
episode 1-2: Wow shit, this could actually be amazing. This is on it's way to be a 7/10 or 8/10 show!!!
episode 3 up to arc 1 end: Wow... that had so much more potential... meh, still a 6/10. Not bad but I hoped it would have been so much better
start of arc 2: the fuck is this
end of arc 2: why didn't I just call it a day after arc1...
so the realization came quite quickly and had nothing to do with it being famous. You can quite accurately point out at what point in time most people thought it's going south. I really did like it a lot at first (first 3 episodes or so) but disliking the 2nd arc has nothing to do with being a hipster. this is a little better i guess...I'm still here wondering..."what was it in those episodes 3 - arc 1 end that made you start disliking it more?" I was expecting them to go through the dungeon and see how they did that. Thus realy liking episode 1 and 2 with the stage 1 bossfight and everything being really cool. And suddenly episode 3 was "a week later, we're on floor 7" or some crap like that and I just facepalmed at that moment because I really wanted to see that. Only got worse when they spend what felt like 10 episodes for Kirito x Asuna at the lake. Sure that's important as well but really felt super rushed to me and priorities being off. I think people mentioned that they went about it in more detail in the anime than the LN (no idea if that's true, didn't read) so the source is apparently even worse in that regard but I didn't know that going into it
The anime and the Ln are the same. If you want to see dungeon crawler, read SAO:progressive which is the aincrad arc more fleshed out and explored with them going through each floor and such
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On June 08 2015 02:14 ZenithM wrote:
Well, nobody is ever going to admit that they're a hipster, Unleashing, so that discussion is kinda moot.
Still, I do share Ryuhou)aS('s sentiment. There is a habit here to exaggerate one's criticism of popular series, just on the premise that they're popular. When a show that a lot of people like has a flaw that we perceive, we feel the need to be more vocal about it, proportionately to the number of opinions we might go against if you will.
Still though, you have to realize that there is nothing wrong with falling for the same popular tropes in anime that "plebs" and people with so-called "shit taste" fall for ;D. Anime is already kind of a guilty pleasure, not some higher-order cultural elite thing, so might as well embrace the taste, however shitty it might be.
But just because I'm curious, and as an example, what precisely did you dislike in SAO, Unleashing?
As for me, I wasn't too fond of the fan-service, and I've started to dislike it overall when Suzuha and her brother-complex was involved. But I didn't find "flaws in the story" (if any) particularly bothering. I would think the harem part doesn't bother you seeing as you're kind of a fan of DxD ;D.
It is the nature of this thread (and the internet in general) to use stronger language and hyperbole when talking about shows (good or bad). Its just the way it is. Sometimes it makes me think about The Giver and how that society made precision of language and saying exactly what you mean a really high priority.
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On June 08 2015 02:26 ZenithM wrote:
SAO isn't even the biggest offender, because it's legitimately not one of the best anime of all times ;D.
But I've read stuff in this thread about Steins;Gate, Death Note or Code Geass that sounded pretty damn hipsterish to me. What an awful bunch of series amirite. Especially those parts 2! Hated those.
Only things I've heard from this thread about thos anime is that they aren't the best anime of all times. Which is a pretty true statement. That and how each of them have parts that are pretty bad but well having something flawless is almost impossible really.
People seem to have this perception that if they like something that means they can't talk about the bad of that thing. That's awfully silly to me.
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Still don't understand why we put SAO in the home-made rec chart if it's so universally hated in the thread. But yeah, I know, I know, no more talk about the chart.
On June 08 2015 02:42 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 02:26 ZenithM wrote:
SAO isn't even the biggest offender, because it's legitimately not one of the best anime of all times ;D.
But I've read stuff in this thread about Steins;Gate, Death Note or Code Geass that sounded pretty damn hipsterish to me. What an awful bunch of series amirite. Especially those parts 2! Hated those. Only things I've heard from this thread about thos anime is that they aren't the best anime of all times. Which is a pretty true statement. That and how each of them have parts that are pretty bad but well having something flawless is almost impossible really. People seem to have this perception that if they like something that means they can't talk about the bad of that thing. That's awfully silly to me.
Pretty sure I've read things like "awful", but what isn't awful these days... Also, if there is such a notion as "best anime shows of all time", we have to put something on that list. They don't have to be flawless.
Edit: Haha, just noticed you also used "awfully". Well, here you go, everything's awful.
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On June 08 2015 02:26 ZenithM wrote:
SAO isn't even the biggest offender, because it's legitimately not one of the best anime of all times ;D.
But I've read stuff in this thread about Steins;Gate, Death Note or Code Geass that sounded pretty damn hipsterish to me. What an awful bunch of series amirite. Especially those parts 2! Hated those.
Barely anyone here hates S;G, and everyone (even the people who "like" it) actually thinks the same thing about Deathnote (was good up until after L died).
Maybe you guys just say "They hate this because its popular! They are hipsters!" just to try and come to terms with other people not thinking the same thing as you do. Its like you can't accept other people have different tastes than you. So instead of "Stop liking what I dislike!!!" we are getting "Stop disliking what I like!!!", which is pretty funny to me.
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On June 08 2015 02:29 Numy wrote:If you want what I think the flaws are then I can go quickly over them. Meant to be studying but so over that + Show Spoiler +1. The World - This one is something that annoys me almost more than Mrs. Fleshlight. The premise of SAO is that it's set in a virtual reality world modeled as an MMO. Games by their very nature have to follow a set of "rules" in how they operate. That's just how computers work. SAO takes this starting point and discards it pretty quickly. It only uses the fact that it's an MMO in order to force this "death game" narrative. That's it. All the limits and rules surrounding a game are lost. Now this wouldn't be so bad if it was addressed that this is an "organic" game but initially and every now and then it acts like there are actual rules like spell cooldowns etc. So it lands up having these huge inconsistencies where only every now and then it decides that it wants to adhere by the rules when it's convenient to do so.
2. "Beaters" plot(Or random ideas never capitalized on) - This makes no sense to me. Essentially there's a subset of the playerbase that have played the game before yet these people get somehow ostracized by everyone else because of this fact? Erm what the fuck? Ok, I can deal with that stupidity if the story actually dealt with this in a meaningful way. Instead it's merely a random idea thrown out there and touched on every now and then but not really progressed. This happens a lot in the story. There are countless ideas in the story that just appear once or twice that never get expanded upon.
3. Characters(Asuna) - The greatest tragedy in the story. When we first meet Asuna she's this top tier player that is a bit of a loner much like our MC. They do a bit of bonding at the start over something she doesn't know then in a battle together. So far it's a decent start. She hasn't really developed much past the "strong mysterious female character" but there's still plenty of story left to do this. What happens next is an abomination. Asuna over the course of the story goes from this potential strong and interesting female lead to the stereotypical maiden in distress. She exists merely as a tool for our MC to actually be serious. This is only over the first half of the first season. Over the second arc she becomes ever less of a character by becoming more and more a mere object used to propel the story.
4. Characters(Kirito) - I think this has been talked about enough. Kirito effectively removes all tension from the story because he is able to create whatever rules he wants in order to progress the plot. Nothing can't be solved without kirito. This makes all other characters in the story obsolete. Even the attempt to give him more depth by having his stupidity kill a random friend barely did anything as it's relegated to being mere flashbacks every now and then to try illicit an emotional response from us. The story would be more interesting without him in it
5. Characters(rest) - They are meaningless fodder used to just pad out the story. At it's core SAO is a generic fantasy story with some harem elements. I have more detailed criticisms about it but my mind is a bit fuzzy with chem lol. IF you still want to talk we can do so sometime this week.
I was gonna write something long up but didn't get far before i see Numy has already written up most of my main complaints, so refer to this if you want to know what i primarily disliked about SAO.
I've said already that i thought the first part of SAO was average and that it didn't get really awful until the second part, the first part had an interesting concept and some poor execution but it wasn't bad or awful, just a waste of potential. But sadly the second part of the show was so awful that i honestly consider the show overall bad as a result. Likewise for season 2 i thought the GGO part was alright and overall average but then the filler and mother rosario came around which i honestly once again thought was downright awful.
And to answer your bit about the harem aspect, i think the harem aspect of SAO was hamfisted and awful, it just kept introducing girls that lusted after Kirito for no real reason and never really developed the characters or anything, they're just still around as the girls that also want his dick.
I think writing off dislike for a show as people being hipsters honestly makes you look like a prick.
A lot of people dislike TTGL for completely valid reasons and even though it's popular and also my favourite series i'm not going to write off their dislike as just being because they're hipsters.
Edit: I also haven't seen anyone hate on death note or S;G either in this therad outside of death note becoming pretty bad post L's death and S;G having a painful start. Which are both completely valid things to point out.
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Am I getting lectured on tolerance by Sentenal?
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I am, afterall, a paragon of friendship and tolerance. Please be tolerant of my hate.
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In other news Symphogear has a pretty cool style so far but the captain guy has his tie in his pocket! Wtf, I can't stop seeing it whenever he appears. Why is it there, what mysteries does this pocket tie hold? Do people really do this!?
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On June 08 2015 02:57 Numy wrote:
In other news Symphogear has a pretty cool style so far but the captain guy has his tie in his pocket! Wtf, I can't stop seeing it whenever he appears. Why is it there, what mysteries does this pocket tie hold? Do people really do this!?
Its a limiter. Once you see the stuff hes capable of doing with that tie in his pocket, you will understand why the limiter is in place. Its for the safety of the planet.
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To elaborate (although I don't think I have to prove that I'm tolerant of you all, but eh, I got baited), I don't mind anyone disliking anything, but I do mind when extreme language is employed when there isn't an extreme thought. So yeah, what Slaughter said. It doesn't make for good discussions, and doesn't give off a very welcoming vibe to the thread. If I'm an anime noobie and want to discuss my liking of SAO, well, I know I'm not welcome here.
But reading the comments on SAO, maybe your use of words are justified after all, you really do seem to hate that show ;D
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Or maybe people should accept that not all the works we like or want to like are flawless or ambitious and that's okay...
Horriblesubs had a nice rant about "shit taste" on their website. You're not a bad person cause you like SAO. You can still be receptive to criticism about it even if you like it anyways.
Though I must say. When people back their criticism with shitty reasoning... nothing annoys me more
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On the note of death note post L with some slight bakuman spoilers:
+ Show Spoiler +The author of death note who is also the author of bakuman even references in bakuman during the Reversi arc that death note should've ended at its peak instead of being extended, i thought that self-acknowledgment was pretty cool.
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Yea. You're only a bad person if you don't like yuri, the purest form of love
On June 08 2015 02:59 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 02:57 Numy wrote:
In other news Symphogear has a pretty cool style so far but the captain guy has his tie in his pocket! Wtf, I can't stop seeing it whenever he appears. Why is it there, what mysteries does this pocket tie hold? Do people really do this!? Its a limiter. Once you see the stuff hes capable of doing with that tie in his pocket, you will understand why the limiter is in place. Its for the safety of the planet.
Lol yea it does seem badass. Anyway VA cast is amazing and animation/sound is cool so I'm sticking with this.
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Fortunately, I don't think people still actively go after SAO to shit on it. Most of that happened when it was actually airing, which it was actually an active topic of conversation. Now days, I figure most people who hate it wouldn't care to go out of their way to talk shit about it, outside maybe of a few general comments here and there (like, just referring to it as bad or something equally as harmless).
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EPT
