EPTAnime Discussion Thread - Page 3652
| Forum Index > Media & Entertainment |
If you come in here looking for "anime recommendations" then please refer to this chart before posting: Anime Recommendations (as of may 2014). We also have an IRC channel called #tladt where we all hang out. The channel is on Rizon, not QuakeNet! Feel free to check it out. TLADT discord is Discord.gg For currently airing anime, please see Anichart.net | ||
|
Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
| ||
|
Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On April 05 2014 07:06 Zergneedsfood wrote: I have yet to read a very good compelling reason why, but people are welcome to try. :/ The use of all those religious names and symbolism for no reason other than "Hey this sounds cool" seems to me to be the text-book definition of "pretentious". "Attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed." 'Flavoring' the story, as you put it, when there isn't actually anything behind that can't be anything but. I realize "pretentious" gets thrown around a lot when it comes to Evangelion, often times undeservedly, but on this topic specifically it fits perfectly. | ||
|
Slaughter
United States20255 Posts
On April 05 2014 01:10 BlackMagister wrote: I don't blame the anime too much. It was well done until the ending and they really didn't have a choice with making a crappy ending. I doubt Claymore would have gotten a second season even if they had left it open ended anyways. + Show Spoiler + Newest chapter builds up a lot of hype though I'm not sure what's the difference between using Teresa's yoki reading ability like she always has and awakening Teresa. I assume the last picture is not literal with Clare becoming Teresa physically, but just her using more of Teresa's strength. Will the manga really end with a "Teresa" vs Priscilla rematch or are we going to have mainland Dragonkin warriors show up or the group going there? + Show Spoiler + I think she did physically become Teresa. I think it wouldn't be a huge stretch for her to awaken into a Teresa form considering what was implanted into Clare. It could become pretty messy depending on if "Teresa's soul" also comes back and how they handle them both in the same body. | ||
|
Elem
Sweden4717 Posts
| ||
|
Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
On April 05 2014 07:24 Sentenal wrote: The use of all those religious names and symbolism for no reason other than "Hey this sounds cool" seems to me to be the text-book definition of "pretentious". "Attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed." 'Flavoring' the story, as you put it, when there isn't actually anything behind that can't be anything but. I realize "pretentious" gets thrown around a lot when it comes to Evangelion, often times undeservedly, but on this topic specifically it fits perfectly. I think trying to say "Hey this sounds cool" to a religious reference is the opposite of trying to impress by adding greater importance, since the only importance of these images is the role they play in the story. In other words, there's no deeper Christian meaning (yes there are other various religious references, Christian is just the most noticeable) that some more misguided Eva fans ascribe to these things. In fact, though I could be mistaken, there is no religion that's actually referenced by name, and Eva is more about creating its own origin story using various religious symbols as flavoring for an original story. I don't think that's pretentious, nor do I have a strong love for how they used these things. I do believe that people who think the references have any deeper meaning are kind of deluding themselves and grasping at straws, but I don't think that Eva should be criticized that heavily for symbols that evoke a certain type of meaning when they aren't meant that way (and very obviously so). I imagine there are far more worthwhile things to criticize the show on. | ||
|
Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
| ||
|
Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
Does the MAGI really behave like anything like the original three men who visited Christ? Was Adam really crucified with the Lance of Lancelot in his body? Does Marduk play any role similar to its original meaning? The Dead Sea Scrolls? Lilith? Anyone who sees these references and know at least an iota about what these things represent can deduce that they actually don't hold any real significance, and so that opens up the floor to an interpretation of these symbols as something just for the sake of relatability or....as the team put it "exotic and cool." I imagine the creative team's vision for Eva was to use these references as an easier way for the audience to latch on to important concepts and ideas in the story (which by the way, I would concede is not completely necessary but not also not particularly harmful), making them more memorable and giving the "Gospel of the New Century" (uhhh pretty sure this is Eva's literal translation) a sense that it's the telling of some kind of beginning or ending of...iono human existence or some shit. | ||
Spazer
Canada8036 Posts
| ||
|
WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On April 05 2014 08:21 Zergneedsfood wrote: I don't think it tries to create an illusion of added depth at all, especially when people who actually understand the context of said references understand that they don't add....any depth really. In fact they hardly make sense if you think about them too hard. Does the MAGI really behave like anything like the original three men who visited Christ? Was Adam really crucified with the Lance of Lancelot in his body? Does Marduk play any role similar to its original meaning? The Dead Sea Scrolls? Lilith? Anyone who sees these references and know at least an iota about what these things represent can deduce that they actually don't hold any real significance, and so that opens up the floor to an interpretation of these symbols as something just for the sake of relatability or....as the team put it "exotic and cool." I imagine the creative team's vision for Eva was to use these references as an easier way for the audience to latch on to important concepts and ideas in the story (which by the way, I would concede is not completely necessary but not also not particularly harmful), making them more memorable and giving the "Gospel of the New Century" (uhhh pretty sure this is Eva's literal translation) a sense that it's the telling of some kind of beginning or ending of...iono human existence or some shit. I don't think they created an illusion of depth. I do, however, think they created an illusion of coherency. You say that "Adam" and "Eve" join together, and suddenly we're supposed to accept that a completely random object and a test-tube clone have grand metaphysical importance. If they'd instead been labelled "Bob" and "Alice", then zero shits would've been given. | ||
|
Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On April 05 2014 08:21 Zergneedsfood wrote: I don't think it tries to create an illusion of added depth at all, especially when people who actually understand the context of said references understand that they don't add....any depth really. In fact they hardly make sense if you think about them too hard. Does the MAGI really behave like anything like the original three men who visited Christ? Was Adam really crucified with the Lance of Lancelot in his body? Does Marduk play any role similar to its original meaning? The Dead Sea Scrolls? Lilith? Anyone who sees these references and know at least an iota about what these things represent can deduce that they actually don't hold any real significance, and so that opens up the floor to an interpretation of these symbols as something just for the sake of relatability or....as the team put it "exotic and cool." I imagine the creative team's vision for Eva was to use these references as an easier way for the audience to latch on to important concepts and ideas in the story (which by the way, I would concede is not completely necessary but not also not particularly harmful), making them more memorable and giving the "Gospel of the New Century" (uhhh pretty sure this is Eva's literal translation) a sense that it's the telling of some kind of beginning or ending of...iono human existence or some shit. Yeah, they don't add any depth or make sense. But when just watching the anime, and not taking into account interviews by Anno made years after the fact, you can only get the impression that they intended to give them meaning but failed miserably, or they just put them in there for no reason, which is amateurishly distracting and misleading. | ||
|
KazeHydra
Japan2788 Posts
On April 05 2014 08:21 Zergneedsfood wrote:Anyone who sees these references and know at least an iota about what these things represent can deduce that they actually don't hold any real significance, and so that opens up the floor to an interpretation of these symbols as something just for the sake of relatability or....as the team put it "exotic and cool." You'd be surprised how dumb people can be. | ||
|
BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
<ゝω·）绮罗星~☆ On April 05 2014 08:24 Spazer wrote: Jotaro is the biggest poser tho. I wish that i can pose like him. ![[image loading]](http://static.tumblr.com/20581bba41e5890943de51c6a15fb7c2/rqyyxxz/vj1muimo9/tumblr_static_jotaro-wins2.gif) And man Araki actually designed some stuffs for Gucci and GioGio Armani. so damn cool. and that reminds me i NEED to get this tie -_- + Show Spoiler + the link for it if anyone serious of getting one http://www.ultra-violence.com/moreinfo/jojo/kila.html but i doubt that they still sell it T_T | ||
|
Ecael
United States6703 Posts
On April 05 2014 08:29 WolfintheSheep wrote: I don't think they created an illusion of depth. I do, however, think they created an illusion of coherency. You say that "Adam" and "Eve" join together, and suddenly we're supposed to accept that a completely random object and a test-tube clone have grand metaphysical importance. If they'd instead been labelled "Bob" and "Alice", then zero shits would've been given. You kidding? That'd make so many people give a shit. If it should've been Bob and Alice, then all the sudden Eva becomes some magical cryptographic methodology. That or physics. | ||
|
Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
On April 05 2014 08:30 Sentenal wrote: Yeah, they don't add any depth or make sense. But when just watching the anime, and not taking into account interviews by Anno made years after the fact, you can only get the impression that they intended to give them meaning but failed miserably, or they just put them in there for no reason, which is amateurishly distracting and misleading. I didn't really think anything Anno's interviews to be honest. I went out of my way to avoid most Eva information before I watched it. The only thing I know is that Anno was super depressed when he was making the anime.  On April 05 2014 08:33 KazeHydra wrote: You'd be surprised how dumb people can be. Yeah that's true. On April 05 2014 08:29 WolfintheSheep wrote: I don't think they created an illusion of depth. I do, however, think they created an illusion of coherency. You say that "Adam" and "Eve" join together, and suddenly we're supposed to accept that a completely random object and a test-tube clone have grand metaphysical importance. If they'd instead been labelled "Bob" and "Alice", then zero shits would've been given. Eh, be that as it may, I don't think Adam and Eve joining together have "grand metaphysical importance." I mean.....is the "joining of Adam and Eve" given any kind of deep philosophical importance in the Christian faith? I don't recall(and do please correct me if I'm wrong. My understanding of religion is very limited so perhaps there have been many religious texts on this). It was just...they ended up having kids (Cain and Abel). I feel like a lot of people forget that a lot of the Bible is just....telling stories, origin or otherwise, and aren't like grandiose philosophical discussions about existence or the meaning of life or what does it mean to be or whatever. And that's the way with a lot of religions too. To a lot of people it's just....explaining the unexplainable or setting guidelines on how to live your life. There's not that much (to my knowledge) that's deeply "metaphysical" about them. So why crucify (haha) Eva for having these religious symbols by saying they were trying to be philosophical when they wouldn't really be philosophical even if they were misconstrued that way? Besides, Eva's amount of philosophy is way exaggerated. A lot of the story (and that's mostly the second half too) is mostly psychoanalysis. The first 14 or so episodes were just very fun Monster of the Week type episodes. | ||
|
Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
| ||
|
Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
| ||
|
Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On April 05 2014 09:15 Zergneedsfood wrote: Will I understand Gao if I watch GaoGaiGar? Will I get closer to Gao-kun? Nah, GaoGaiGar is all about courage, tenacity, and mech(a). Not midterms, dodging, and hydras. It also has cool robots like: edit: man, subs were bad back then lol... | ||
|
WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On April 05 2014 09:04 Zergneedsfood wrote: Eh, be that as it may, I don't think Adam and Eve joining together have "grand metaphysical importance." I mean.....is the "joining of Adam and Eve" given any kind of deep philosophical importance in the Christian faith? I don't recall(and do please correct me if I'm wrong. My understanding of religion is very limited so perhaps there have been many religious texts on this). It was just...they ended up having kids (Cain and Abel). I feel like a lot of people forget that a lot of the Bible is just....telling stories, origin or otherwise, and aren't like grandiose philosophical discussions about existence or the meaning of life or what does it mean to be or whatever. And that's the way with a lot of religions too. To a lot of people it's just....explaining the unexplainable or setting guidelines on how to live your life. There's not that much (to my knowledge) that's deeply "metaphysical" about them. So why crucify (haha) Eva for having these religious symbols by saying they were trying to be philosophical when they wouldn't really be philosophical even if they were misconstrued that way? Besides, Eva's amount of philosophy is way exaggerated. A lot of the story (and that's mostly the second half too) is mostly psychoanalysis. The first 14 or so episodes were just very fun Monster of the Week type episodes. Well, I don't mind if a story is philosophical as long as it doesn't get in the way of the story. And I don't mind if the philosophy is utterly meaningless outside of the context of the story, as long as the internal mythos is built with care. If all of Eva's religious labeling was purely in-name only, and everything was explained in the context of their world, then it wouldn't feel so out of place. But the series basically starts off building it's own mythos, and then half-way through they start using the labeling as cop-out explanations. Then again, the whole series turns into a mess around the second half, and that's really just one of the symptoms. | ||
|
Dismay
United States1180 Posts
| ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51379 Posts
On April 05 2014 08:47 BurningSera wrote: oh star diver did you mention that lolol this is all i remember about that anime: <ゝω·）绮罗星~☆ I wish that i can pose like him. And man Araki actually designed some stuffs for Gucci and GioGio Armani. so damn cool. and that reminds me i NEED to get this tie -_- + Show Spoiler + the link for it if anyone serious of getting one http://www.ultra-violence.com/moreinfo/jojo/kila.html but i doubt that they still sell it T_T dat wind. | ||
| ||
