Anime Discussion Thread - Page 350

On July 07 2010 01:45 Thesecretaznman wrote:
So, is Durarara!!! going to get another season? I read that the anime only covered 3 of the 7 novels. To anyone who read the novels, how accurate was the anime?

Also, I just learned that ep24 was the "last" episode, which is why I'm posting this. I forgot that I had already downloaded it, and just watched it now. :<

On July 07 2010 01:45 Thesecretaznman wrote:
So, is Durarara!!! going to get another season? I read that the anime only covered 3 of the 7 novels. To anyone who read the novels, how accurate was the anime?

Also, I just learned that ep24 was the "last" episode, which is why I'm posting this. I forgot that I had already downloaded it, and just watched it now. :<

On July 07 2010 01:52 Southlight wrote:


Ecael said the anime was faithful to the novels. No one knows if Durarara!! is getting another season, or when, because we're still waiting on To Aru Majutsu no Index (which covered like 4 volumes of 18? or whatever it's up to now) and of course no mention of further Baccano! (anime only covered the first two volumes of like 13).

"-datteba" is also a very pouty way of ending, although I can't think off the top of my head of how to explain why (maybe Ecael can pick this up), as it's like a "see, I told you." One of the pouts kids tend to do is "datteba~ datteba~" (because~ because~). Meanwhile "-yo" is like a bizarre attempt at sounding humbler, as "-yo" is usually reserved for females (and thus carries a very feminine connotation), and of course "-datteyo" is a milder, less bratty way of saying "-datteba" (same meaning).

On July 07 2010 01:34 Spazer wrote:
Densetsu no Yuusha no Densetsu seems really ridiculously fast paced. I feel like they Pretty funny so far. The subs by Guess that I linked to are okay, but not spectacular. They're good enough to get the point across, but the typesetting and timing seem pretty lazy. Any news on other subbing groups?

So I was skimming through FMP: Sigma today since I was bored, and you know what I realized? They skipped A Dancing Very Merry Christmas. I can't even fathom why they did that.
+ Show Spoiler +

If that's the case, then isn't it just the difference in cultures that you're having trouble dealing with? In western media, Canadians add "eh" to the end of their sentences. Characters add say umm and uh to make it seem like they're slow/stupid. Mobsters talk in a very distinctive manner. Nobody questions these things - they're just accepted. It's the same thing with anime. Obviously the Japanese don't consider the additions that hard to accept, because otherwise, nobody would watch the shows. And remember, they're the target audience, not the people of your country/culture.

Just consider all of these details to be verbal tics. Is it necessary? Not really, but a little more characterization never hurt a story.

On July 07 2010 02:19 NB wrote:
holy cow, post in this thread are long @_@...

took me at least 5 mins to read 349

i just wana ask whether if the source for your anime? are they torrent/irc ?
i hv found a mediafire source and want to share but mostly the subs are not in English .

also, i want to say that Ookamisan was not as good as i expected it to be but the character design is kinda unique ^^...

On July 07 2010 02:19 NB wrote:
holy cow, post in this thread are long @_@...

took me at least 5 mins to read 349

i just wana ask whether if the source for your anime? are they torrent/irc ?
i hv found a mediafire source and want to share but mostly the subs are not in English .

also, i want to say that Ookamisan was not as good as i expected it to be but the character design is kinda unique ^^...

On July 07 2010 00:54 Judicator wrote:
The term unique is pretty loose, it's hard to find definitely unique characters from any series after you watched a good amount of anime.

There's nothing wrong with simple character types, simple doesn't mean one-dimensional or suggest a low quality. As for the Naruto/Inuyasha, you haven't watched either if you make that statement. Characters can serve the same role, but those roles aren't necessarily interchangeable after a certain point.

As for cliches, this is a very simple trap to fall into as cliches generally mean overdone, but it doesn't mean iteration N of the power-up hero can't be refined and well presented, aka of quality given the character type. Just using the power-up hero as an example, there are so many ways to approach this cliche character type; hero that wants to win but must train, hero that has this super inner power, hero that gets super power from external sources (other people or items), hero that has power but can't use it unless X happens, hero that has power but with negative effect. Stack on the fact that some characters share characteristics with others (both directly and indirectly) as well as you can mix and match in your approach of an apparent cliche character type, a simple overdone hero doesn't always seem so simple.

As for nya, I personally do not like the term either, but I can also understand there are moments in life where you just want to stick your tongue out and blow, nya is no different in this case.

On July 07 2010 00:56 Sentenal wrote:

I think you have Shirou's goals mixed up. He was just as naive as a shounen hero like Naruto. His only goal was to be a "hero who saved people, even if it costed him his life", and that was it. If he wanted to save bad people, there were plenty of villains in that series that he tried to kill. And I'm fairly certain most shounen heros who have naive beliefs in their respective shows know that they are being naive, but do so anyway. Sure, Shirou had his reasons for his beliefs. But on that same token, Shounen heroes have reasons for their beliefs as well.

On July 07 2010 00:58 Southlight wrote:
All characters have a basis, wtf? Otherwise why would the creator insert them? I remember Joss Wheadon (sp?) talking about how he found out with Angel vs Firefly that he needed a certain amount of characters to cover a whole range of personalities, etc.

With regards to those three you keep bringing up, when speaking to my friends in Japanese, I often go "ugu~" (moan/whine), "u~" (more of a crying moan/whine), and if we're in a particularly mellow mood sometimes we'll insert "nya~" just to sound a bit more cutesy and mellow out our tone. And, ofc, we insert "nya" just to make fun of something, like "nya~ntena" (original: nantena, or "or something.") The "ugu-" (of which I presume you refer to... Kanon? or something?) is really not that far out of normal Japanese sfx, that one character just went to the extremes with it, but it was a way to build clumsiness into her character (the whine/moan is more of a clumsy one, like urf I messed up). A more "common in real life" sort of whine/moan would probably be like "aa~" or just a big heavy SIGH. Considering that a groaning, pondering sound in Japanese is "u~n" (or u~mu) (an extension of n~~~~~~ I think) removing the ~n and turning it into u~ for a basic whine/groan shouldn't be surprising. Yay the basis of words and sounds. Of course, regular pondering is like "u~n" "u~mu" "fu~mu" etc. etc. so you get a lot of subtle differences in connotations/implications with regards to a person's state of mind.

Thus, of the three you keep bringing up, the only one you can actually have beef with is "nya," of which I can't really think of many examples where it's used. Blatant moe-cat characters aside, I've only seen it used by cat-mode Hanekawa in Bakemonogatari (the youtube video linked earlier) and when people are ribbing on each other or being super sarcastic. "Soudanya~" (a play on "soudana" or "you're right/that's right") can be a way of trying to invoke irritation from the listener, or it could be a means of expressing disinterest. Which is being used would of course rely on the tone of the speaker.

Another manner of speech that isn't normal, aside from Naruto's -dattebayo (which is a mouthful even in Japanese), that I can think of off the top of my head is Yuuki's "-daje" from Saki, a play on "-daze" which is a very, VERY masculine method of saying "-dane." Turning z into j makes it a cutesy way of speaking, which goes in form with her, um, loli-ness. In the same series there's Touka, who goes "-desuwa" (similar to the -desuno spam from Railgun), which is a very pompous way of speaking. The -desu ending as a whole reeks of high-class-ness, and depending on the context this, too, leads to a lot of characterization. Sui...seiseki? I think? From Rozen Maiden says -desu a lot, and it's obviously because she thinks very highly of herself. Meanwhile in Maria-sama ga Miteru almost everyone speaks using -desu because it's a mannered, polite way of speaking.

-Dattebayo, incidentally, because you questioned it, is actually a mashing of multiple sentence closers, which itself is pretty indicative of his very rustic personality and manner of speech. It's a compound, I believe of "-datteba" and "-dayo" but there's also intermediate compounds between those two like "-datteyo" etc. all of which are different meanings, so this "-dattebayo" is pretty unique. What can you derive from it? When I first saw it I thought he was a brat. Well, that's about right because that's what the author wanted people to feel, and that was very reflective of the character in question. "-datteba" is also a very pouty way of ending, although I can't think off the top of my head of how to explain why (maybe Ecael can pick this up), as it's like a "see, I told you." One of the pouts kids tend to do is "datteba~ datteba~" (because~ because~). Meanwhile "-yo" is like a bizarre attempt at sounding humbler, as "-yo" is usually reserved for females (and thus carries a very feminine connotation), and of course "-datteyo" is a milder, less bratty way of saying "-datteba" (same meaning). Of course, I don't know what the 100% meaning is of -yo because it's ambiguous (invented words in fictional writing tend to be this way) but you get the idea.

Edit:
By the way, Shirou's goal was simply to be a hero to everyone. He never specifically mentioned self-sacrifice, he just wanted to save everyone, despite the impossible and perhaps contradictory nature of such a wish. This is a very shounen goal. It just so happens that the story is far "deeper" than a typical shounen series, and thus instead of being a Shounen Jump-esque level-up more and more to achieve your goal! sort of story it becomes a relatively deeper psychological observation of one teen's dream and how he struggles with the dream versus reality.

On July 07 2010 01:34 Spazer wrote:
If that's the case, then isn't it just the difference in cultures that you're having trouble dealing with? In western media, Canadians add "eh" to the end of their sentences. Characters add say umm and uh to make it seem like they're slow/stupid. Mobsters talk in a very distinctive manner. Nobody questions these things - they're just accepted. It's the same thing with anime. Obviously the Japanese don't consider the additions that hard to accept, because otherwise, nobody would watch the shows. And remember, they're the target audience, not the people of your country/culture.

Just consider all of these details to be verbal tics. Is it necessary? Not really, but a little more characterization never hurt a story.

On July 07 2010 02:45 Lucumo wrote:
So, I said that not all characters have a basis and you disagree?(that ",wtf?" makes it impossible to interpret) Why would you want to cover up "a whole range of personalities"? I don't understand that thinking. Does it make a anime more interesting? No, surely not(in my opinion). In real life, people have very complicated personalities, so why not try and put them into an anime? That would make it far more interesting than what they do almost every time.

Speaking=/=writing. Sometimes I use smileys too, or something like "err" or "uh" but that's just to avoid misunderstandings or emphasize my point. I would never do or say such a thing in real life. Japanese sfx? Isn't this a misuse of that word? (Sound effects or audio effects are artificially created or enhanced sounds, or sound processes used to emphasize artistic or other content of films, television shows, live performance, animation, video games, music, or other media.) That means it is not used in real life...or did you mean tv shows and stuff like that? But it that's the case, where is the point in telling me that? TV shows and live performances aren't rl either. And even if some people(otakus/girls) do that, did they do it before or after the anime/manga was released. That's a huge difference too, because if it's the latter, it holds no value. "aa~"? Never heard that before...and a *sigh* it's pretty common+it's an action, no word. Uff, you lost me. I never heard about the rest either, but I don't speak Japanese and didn't visit it so far. That puts me at a great disadvantage and there isn't really anything I can do or say, so I have to leave it like that.

Does the last part and the following segment apply to the real life? If so, do adults really use these kinds of words? If not, do normal children speak that way? When I was child, I never said those kind of things, I pretty much talked in the correct way...same with the people and children I knew.
Anyway, a really big thanks for the insight. It's actually pretty interesting because you have so many ways to express yourself(if you want).

On July 07 2010 02:45 Lucumo wrote:

My memory of the visual novel prevails, but didn't he explain his behavior in the anime too? He always wanted to save everyone because of his childhood. He didn't care about his life. He knew that it was just an ideal but he denied it in order to move forward. About his enemies, he didn't really want to kill them...and he didn't? Which ones did he try to kill? Kotomine was the only one and that's because he realized(even though he knew) that he can't save everybody+Kotomine wanted to destroy everyone. And that's how Shirou ends up as Archer. Do you really believe that they know, that they are being naive? I can say it wholeheartedly: I don't think so. Do they ever think about it? No, I don't think so either. Shounen heros have a reason...because they are "good" and the other are "evil"...because someone was killed or something was destroyed by them.

On July 07 2010 02:45 Lucumo wrote:

Hm, after all this, I almost think so. But media=/=real life. So it doesn't really matter, that they speak that way. I would definitely watch the show but now I'm asking myself: Most shows(anime) don't have that kind of language, right? Especially those from 2004 and before(with very few exceptions), right? But in the end, it doesn't really matter since I only have problems with a few of them(single words or over-usage of an ending).

So, it's simply a matter of preference. Right now, I wonder where we started this discussion. It's 31°C here and the heat is killing me. Plus, it makes it harder to think calmly.

On July 07 2010 02:55 Southlight wrote:


As someone else mentioned (I don't know why it didn't occur to me to bring it up), to Japanese speakers (I am a native speaker) most of the dialogue in anime is rather natural, and the ones that aren't (mostly the obnoxious -dattebayo or whatnot ends) are easy to recognize as being there for a purpose, but let's backtrack a bit.

[sic]

With regards to the language explanation, I was taking examples of -ends that you were bitching about from anime, and extrapolating them into real life, and explaining why for the most part none of them are contrived. Aside from the blatantly obvious (ie. cats and nya~) they are encountered on a daily basis, person to person, and figure heavily into that person's personality, or personality that person would like to project. For the most part I'm pretty sure you can consider that whole wall of text the truth, at least as far as I've encountered in my life.

Edit:
Aa~ is very common. In fact "aa~" as a whole has like 10 different meanings, based on the tone of voice used. I was actually having "a~" in a decreasing tone in mind, sort of like an "AWWWWWwwwwwwwwwww" sound, but it occurred to me now people may also go "a~a" (an AWWWwwwWWWW" sound), etc. A sigh is like haa. I realize that you're probably missing a very basic part of the Japanese language: onomatopoeia, or sound effects, make up a large part of normal conversations. Actually you must have noticed this from anime, but in case you haven't, there you go. A sigh is usually ハア (haa), and I really wish I were on windows instead of Linux at work so I could show you the Japanese kaomoji (smiley faces).

And I literally meant, speaking, not typing. I always make sure to make that distinction.

On July 07 2010 02:05 Ecael wrote:

To add onto Spazer's thoughts, it is rather pretentious to separate musicals and operas as art and animes as not art (not that I would say that anime is art, but as an argument separating the two and absolving one of all its blames is rather lame). Does the amount of time something have existed excuse it from your definition where normal usage must have a degree of application? Does an appreciation among a group of people (a group the size of which might even be smaller than the amount of otakus should we be picky, certainly not many of us appreciate Shakespeare purely for the dramatic value of his plays, the weight of history has much more bearing) change things? If so, then otaku culture and some specific usage of phrases and words certainly should apply. At any case, like Spazer said, Western media in general tends to add in little things to separate individuals and allow greater recognition, even if they are playing on stereotypes.

I don't think the fact that Japanese is the target audience is particularly important in this case- we simply have to accept that media in all forms is fairly willing to use these things to distinguish one character from another. Hardly many of these actions have a meaning on their own other than how they contribute to the overall character. It just happens that the Japanese way of doing it is slightly less comprehensible, perhaps, to those not versed in the language.

On July 07 2010 02:55 Southlight wrote:


As someone else mentioned (I don't know why it didn't occur to me to bring it up), to Japanese speakers (I am a native speaker) most of the dialogue in anime is rather natural, and the ones that aren't (mostly the obnoxious -dattebayo or whatnot ends) are easy to recognize as being there for a purpose, but let's backtrack a bit.

IIRC Firefly was a show about a spaceship and its ragtag crew. The cast consisted of about... 8? or so characters.

Angel, on the other hand, I think was a bit like his first?-ish work, Buffy, except it had a cast of like 20 (sorry I don't actually watch TV).

What he concluded that it was easy to construct a drama and slice of life with a larger cast, as that way you could reflect a wider variety of personalities. What is implied is that each of these characters, even in huge 20+ casts, all have a purpose, some THING that they were based on. And these basis's are usually archetypes, because that's just how these things roll.

For example, Code Geass, you could place every single character into at least one or two block archetypes.

As such, when you said unique characters have no basis, I call bullshit. Every character has SOME basis from which the author thought of them. The only possible way to NOT have a basis is if the author used a random character generator and spat out random characters, but then such a work is probably going to be low quality and not worth talking about. Either that, or the author is doing something that doesn't require particularly significant characters.

With regards to the language explanation, I was taking examples of -ends that you were bitching about from anime, and extrapolating them into real life, and explaining why for the most part none of them are contrived. Aside from the blatantly obvious (ie. cats and nya~) they are encountered on a daily basis, person to person, and figure heavily into that person's personality, or personality that person would like to project. For the most part I'm pretty sure you can consider that whole wall of text the truth, at least as far as I've encountered in my life.

Edit:
Aa~ is very common. In fact "aa~" as a whole has like 10 different meanings, based on the tone of voice used. I was actually having "a~" in a decreasing tone in mind, sort of like an "AWWWWWwwwwwwwwwww" sound, but it occurred to me now people may also go "a~a" (an AWWWwwwWWWW" sound), etc. A sigh is like haa. I realize that you're probably missing a very basic part of the Japanese language: onomatopoeia, or sound effects, make up a large part of normal conversations. Actually you must have noticed this from anime, but in case you haven't, there you go. A sigh is usually ハア (haa), and I really wish I were on windows instead of Linux at work so I could show you the Japanese kaomoji (smiley faces).

And I literally meant, speaking, not typing. I always make sure to make that distinction.

On July 07 2010 03:32 Sentenal wrote:

IIRC, Shirou tried to kill Archer and Gilgamesh in UBW, didn't he? He even killed Saber in Heaven's Feel (even though Heaven's Feel was more about Shirou abandoning his beliefs for Sakura, so I guess that doesn't count). Anyway, I don't think this tangent is really relevant to what I was getting at.

I don't see how you can make such broad generalizations about every shounen hero. Ed from FMA is a great counter example as to how shounen heroes know they are being naive, but do so anyway, with the stuff about getting his body back/using human lives to do so, no wanting to kill people, and stuff like that. Almost ALL shounen characters have a reason for what they are doing. Its always either crap like childhood memories, or wanting to protect people they care about, or something like that. It is almost NEVER "omg ur evil, i'm gonna kill you!!!" You said you watched Naruto, but even Naruto isn't like that. Everything he does is either to protect his friends, or for his future ambition, and not because the bad guys are "evil". Name me some shounen heroes that meet your description. The only one I can think of is Luffy from One Piece, but that guy does indeed have an extremely immature childlike mind. Maybe Goku? But I certainly can't think of alot of them, and I certainly wouldn't label ALL shounen heroes to be like that, just because some of them are.

On July 07 2010 03:50 Ecael wrote:

Most shows have that kind of language, just not quite as extreme as some modern day moe shows take it. Southlight's post should have addressed your issue about how the not real life part doesn't really stand up to discussion. There is definitely a progression as the times went on, imo, but I am willing to write that off to how the language has changed rapidly with the advent of internet.

It does work out to be a matter of preference after a fashion, but I am not sure most are equipped to judge the matter with a fair light.

On July 07 2010 03:50 Ecael wrote:
I don't know about what language you speak natively, but even in English, there are a lot of little things that marks a person distinct even if they are speaking correctly. For example, it is technically correct to use more passive sentence structures in English, but you are not encouraged to use it. Most native speakers would shy away from it. However, as it isn't my native language, I happily use passive structures. Technically speaking, I am right, but in terms of how I come across to people, it just feels slightly off. So put that into a language with a higher degree of freedom (someone give me alternative first person pronouns in English already) and we get a significant amount of possibilities even in everyday conversation, especially where rigid form is not demanded of you.

On July 07 2010 05:01 Southlight wrote:
No, groaning with u~ ugu~ and such is quite normal, because as I explained, they're derivatives of the basic "u~n/mu." It's the sort of thing that Japanese-speakers will simply accept as "oh there it is" and thus complaining about them as a foreign speaker and simply generalizing it as "zomg bad anime moe" is retarded.

Edit:
By the way, there is always a basis. Lain, in SLE, was a very simple concept: a girl, who's unattached to the real world, discovers the the Wired, and trudges through it, going deeper and deeper into it.

On July 07 2010 04:50 Lucumo wrote:

But I really do think so, or rather, it feels that way. You can't really criticize art, but you can criticize entertainment. I know that it's lame, but I didn't choose that example Hm? Singing something or the usage of poetic words is definitely not normal. If anyone would do so, I wouldn't approve of that. In the name of art, it's ok. You could use those weird words in poem or so(that would be fine), but I wouldn't like it. Does that answer your question? Why would it change things? I don't think such an appreciation would make a difference. In the end, it's you who have to decide that. If you really value that group, maybe it would but personally, I don't value any group, so such a thing wouldn't happen. Example: Too many people write something like "teh" or "I am disappoint". If you appreciate those kinds of people, you maybe adapt to it. I don't(appreciate it) and think it's reatarded, so I won't do it. (I like Shakespeare(his works) and I don't care about the weight of history.) To be honest, I don't really care about Western media. I rarely watch tv(only a japanese-english channel+education channel+some cartoons(Southpark, Spongebob, Simpsons)), I don't play Western games anymore and I never watch or read news on the internet.

So it is as I thought. Since I don't know the language, I can't really judge that. But, if they increase the usage of strange, unnatural words(which I recognize), I won't be happy about it.

If it's simply a matter of preference, why would people need to "judge the matter with a fair light"? Hm, this doesn't apply to me, right? After all, I'm fine with most of it.

Why just technically? If people use an active sentence instead of a passive sentence, isn't that just plain wrong? Or do really have to freedom to choose(according to the rules)? Well, here, that's not the case. Articles like "the" or "a" are pure luxus. I always try to be as accurate as possible, so my native language is fine. Well, I do like the usage of little words which give me a backdoor. So if I don't want to commit myself to something, I don't have to.

On July 07 2010 05:17 Lucumo wrote:

I thought that it's different because you talked about other things in between. So I thought you and your friends use "u~, ugu~" while other people use the basic "u~n/mu". I didn't do that, I just said that I don't like it/it annoys me.

On July 07 2010 05:30 Southlight wrote:
You broke it at


If it's simply a matter of preference, why would people need to "judge the matter with a fair light"? Hm, this doesn't apply to me, right? After all, I'm fine with most of it.

On July 07 2010 05:39 SwEEt[TearS] wrote:
Let's just all agree School Days is a must watch
<3

On July 07 2010 05:41 Southlight wrote:


Only if you agree Ecael needs to read Kara no Shoujo next!!! >: D