Anime Discussion Thread - Page 351

On July 07 2010 05:47 Ecael wrote:
Good mother of God, how many things must I start reading next at this rate? I only want to have a nice list of things to read!

ffs I'll make sure I have a copy once I get home and hopefully start after I finish soranica.

On July 07 2010 05:52 Southlight wrote:
How's soranica? I don't really have a definitive source for HG reviews, so...

On July 07 2010 05:30 Southlight wrote:
Now that Ecael fixed his post,

Yes, my beef here, as Ecael pointed out, is that

1) you come barging in disdaining everyone because you like "mature, quality" (yes, going together) anime/manga, which offended people (rightfully so, which is why you received harsh counterarguments pointing out your hypocrisy etc. etc.)
2) one of the prime examples you pointed out was the usage of various -endings and "onomatopoeia" without understanding the evolution/flexibility/etc. of the Japanese languages

I'm primarily attacking your disparaging of words and phrases considered very much normal in Japanese speech as "low moe anime" etc. etc. as per point 1). "Ugu~" in particular caught my eye because that's not even a speech-ender, it's a GROAN, and the fact that the character I think you're thinking of (I never watched the series, and I don't even remember where it's from, but I've had people point it out to me numerous times) groaned a lot of times doesn't mean it's any less a very natural usage of a normal word.

On July 07 2010 06:23 Shauni wrote:
Lol, how do you even argue this point? It's not a natural way of communication, how come only small girls emphasis on desu, say (groan) uguu nyaa kyaa nyuu uuu. It doesn't exist in a real society (no, not even Japan) and it's only added for cuteness.

On July 07 2010 06:10 Judicator wrote:
So in the end, Lucumo doesn't really know what he likes nor does he know what he likes. He knows what he likes when he sees it, but if someone asks him without a set example he has problems.

Basically, you tried to make a declarative statement without a firm ground to stand on in the first place and you got rolled for it by the people here. It's almost like when the parent asks the child why the child did something and the child responds with a "I don't know" or a "I felt like it". We just happened to make you think about it

On July 07 2010 06:30 Southlight wrote:


I'm kinda confused about what you're saying here @_@

I agree with the stuff about the trend of bland protagonists (ie. Index, etc.) which is why I prefer stuff like H+C, Noein, Terra e..., Genshiken, etc. Unfortunately such shows make up a relatively smaller portion of what's churned out these days, but what can you do, eh.

On July 07 2010 06:53 Ecael wrote:
To be fair, the desu and uguu were exaggerated some in pronunciation even if they are pretty normal by themselves. The intention is indeed to create a moe point, but it isn't exactly going out of the way to break language to do it.

On July 07 2010 05:24 Southlight wrote:
God, I haven't seen SLE in forever so it's hard for me to talk about that.

Gurren Lagann: main character an energetic, but mentally reserved and weak, child that grows as he goes to save the world. Whether or not they had + Show Spoiler + in mind at the conception stage of his character is something no one will ever know.

You try to distinguish between story and character, but things rarely work like that. Try it, think of a character. Now try to establish other characters around that original character. Chances are, you'll find it difficult/impossible to create other characters around the original character without a good concept of a story, as in where you're taking this. Or, you can come up with 20 random characters. But to try to fit them together into one story you either have to have a very general, whacky story (think School Rumble), a massive epic, or you just can't because the characters don't fit into anything "logical."

When it comes to the "original" character(s) of course you'll have a chicken or the egg, whether the story came first or the character(s). Much of this process depends on the author's style, or whatever came into his or her head to start off the story.

There is absolutely no character that is meaningless and has no base, at least in any decently thought-out story.

On July 07 2010 05:29 Ecael wrote:
In the name of expression, then, is art not a form of expression just as entertainment is? I choose the example pretty much just to show how something has been accepted by society in spite of it being completely out of colloquial usage in modern times. However, I feel like if we can complain about entertainment on a certain issue, we definitely can complain about art in the same issue. Shakespeare's works became art in our times, during his times though, what were they if not entertainment for the masses? There is definitely a quality about art, especially the classical kind, that allows it to be passed through history and still revered for what it is. That doesn't make it above criticism, it just makes criticism against it more context sensitive. Anyhow, that's more or less a digression.

I'd be more fine about this if there is more substantial ground for your points, but it pretty much just works out that it doesn't feel normal and thus you can't like it. "teh" and "I am disappoint" is indeed something I find hard to appreciate even if I tolerate them and sometimes get a laugh out of them. However, as Southlight has pointed out, this really isn't the situation we are seeing from your examples. They aren't so much some subculture derived from internet usage as they are an extension of the language itself in some method of usage. Not entirely conventional, but well within normal understanding that they are understood for an accent for a character.

About the last part with Western media, a shame, though I'd be amazed to find media anywhere that doesn't try to seize these little things in their works.

On July 07 2010 06:35 Lucumo wrote:

I wrote this before: "Hm, you surely could say that I like a specific presentation of a certain concept which is not specific." So basically, you are right. I can't express the concept because it's impossible to do so. I can tell what the result is like because it "feels" that way.

I tried to say it as comprehensible as possible to make it easy for the people but if I'm asked for specific details and there is no ground, of course it is hard/impossible. So it's no wonder I got "rolled over", simply I had no chance to begin with. Another thing is, too many people argued with me and I'm not versed in this language which is of course a really bad thing. The funny thing is, it's correct, but I knew it beforehand I tried in spite of that. The good thing is, I think Tenryu understands me. That's at least something

I'm still answering the other posts but it takes so long. It's fun and interesting but I would like to watch my anime too

On July 07 2010 07:10 Shauni wrote:
yess uuuu and uguuu are groans but I've never heard them used like 'that' (maria in umineko and that kanon slut). Of course they use it to make the characters sound more innocent and cute, and it makes it unnatural. I didn't argue about quality of anime going down because of those sentence endings or groans, I don't mind them as much as Lucumo personally.
I'd make a list of characters, but it'd take forever... My memory isn't that excellent. And I don't think it's that common either.

On July 07 2010 07:10 Shauni wrote:
yess uuuu and uguuu are groans but I've never heard them used like 'that' (maria in umineko and that kanon slut). Of course they use it to make the characters sound more innocent and cute, and it makes it unnatural. I didn't argue about quality of anime going down because of those sentence endings or groans, I don't mind them as much as Lucumo personally.
I'd make a list of characters, but it'd take forever... My memory isn't that excellent. And I don't think it's that common either.

On July 07 2010 07:07 Lucumo wrote:

I don't think entertainment is a form of expression. They want to entertain us, not express themselves. Yeah, but I said it before. It's art and because it's art, people accept it(as art only). Example: Some artist draws a really bad picture of something but since it's art, people accept it. Hm, I think you could say that art is a medium to accept such things. Since we view it in a different way, it's impossible to reach an agreement. That's true. Back in the days, was there even a thing which became immediately art? But then again, you have to differ between painting/drawing/sculptures and literature. Nevertheless, I would still say that it becomes above criticism. This literature was written in a diferrent age and judging it by todays thinking, it seems wrong. I feel like that it wouldn't do justice to it.

Well, as I said, I don't care about groups. But other than that, there isn't really anything I can say. If you give me results, I can give reasons. That's why I picked those two examples. I can say that I don't like because it's not the correct spelling. If a group "invents" a new word for something(an action or whatever), I could say that I don't like it because it's unfitting and the word doesn't exist. If it would be accepted as an official word and added in dictionaries and so on, I wouldn't have a problem with it. I think that's all the "substantial ground" I can give.