EPTMy nomination:
In case Gundam SEED doesn't count...
Doesn't look like anyone uploaded the OP with the video, but oh well
Anime Discussion Thread - Page 1778
| Forum Index > Media & Entertainment |
If you come in here looking for "anime recommendations" then please refer to this chart before posting: Anime Recommendations (as of may 2014). We also have an IRC channel called #tladt where we all hang out. The channel is on Rizon, not QuakeNet! Feel free to check it out. TLADT discord is Discord.gg For currently airing anime, please see Anichart.net | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
My nomination: In case Gundam SEED doesn't count... Doesn't look like anyone uploaded the OP with the video, but oh well | ||
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Kaal
Djibouti2585 Posts
On January 17 2012 06:15 Sentenal wrote: On an unrelated note, what anime this season do you guys think has the best OP? My nomination: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fJU51A4HU4 In case Gundam SEED doesn't count... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWdEMfoYjZo Doesn't look like anyone uploaded the OP with the video, but oh well Bitch, please. | ||
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Emnjay808
United States10666 Posts
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
lol, Silly Kaal, I said 'best', not "one of the worst OPs I've ever seen" | ||
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tonight
United States11130 Posts
On January 17 2012 06:23 Sentenal wrote: lol, Silly Kaal, I said 'best', not "one of the worst OPs I've ever seen" my vote is for K.M.B | ||
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
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BrTarolg
United Kingdom3579 Posts
On January 17 2012 07:04 Blasterion wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeDt3tqKSBc&feature=player_embedded Se noh~ | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
Ki-mi-to! | ||
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MichaelEU
Netherlands816 Posts
On January 17 2012 05:34 Sentenal wrote: Bakemonogatari is dialogue driven, but that wasn't my problem with the show. Dialogue driven anime is fine, as long as the anime goes somewhere, stuff happens, and the plot moves forward. The plot does move forward in Bake, but holy shit does it move forward slowly, with a whole lot of fluff. So its not that dialogue is bad (It probably isn't, I don't speak japanese), its that other than dialogue there isn't much else. Nisemonogatari seems to be packing in as much fanservice as possible to compensate (way more than even what Bake did), so IDK if its better or worse lol. An example of a series that is heavy in dialogue, but doesn't suffer from the above would be the Crest/Banner of the Stars series. Bakemonogatari would probably be more enjoyable if I understood Japanese, but I don't, therefore can't really judge how much more I would like it otherwise (and barely anyone in this thread other than a few understand Japanese either). What is plot? As I love to quote: "a fart is a plot." Is a plot an event? Why is dialogue not an event? Dialogue is interaction, is interaction not an event? Is interaction not character exposure? Is that not plot? I take great delight in the dialogue so do I not delight in the plot? In the quest of ridding ambiguity, search for "what it is" that is "lacking" in the Monogatari series. However lacking is the wrong word since it implies that not having "that thing" is wrong. More correctly, it is "something" Sentenal and perhaps sopas wishes to see in the series that would make it more to their liking, which the former fully admits. But do not mistake it for a mistake. I myself would not have it any other way. Nisioisin in all its brutal honesty, subtlety. Back to "that thing," that "something," whatever it may be, Sentenal makes a comparison to the Seikai series and extracts his "thing" from the differences between the series. I have not yet indulged myself in the Seikai series, but I am sure he himself knows what "that thing" is. "That thing" might be something different for you or you or you. However be extremely careful with the words "it would have been better if it had X" and instead say "I would have liked it more if it had X." There's a big difference between the two. I just said the same thing twice, I'll say it thrice. To quote: On January 17 2012 02:57 Requizen wrote: You can't say what is intrinsically "good" or "bad", other than the very basics, like art, music, and maybe originality. Part of me wants to say that it is possible to quantify qualitative features. Even if it were possible however, humans are typically bad at discerning what is "quality" and what is what they "like". This does imply that quality would have to be something commonly agreed upon. (is quality democratic? a sign of the times?) (an example out of music: I think Bach is truly timeless, mathematically eloquent, emotionally varied) It would also mean that it is not, as NationInArms says, that what you like is what is good and what is bad is what you don't like. If there is a quantification of quality, and I suspect this is the case, it would mean he is wrong. If there isn't it would mean whatever you read for the past 5 minutes is null and void. On the assumption that it isn't, however, I would like to end with saying that it cannot be wrong to "like" something "bad" nor to "dislike" something "good," just like how liking Bieber doesn't make you any better (or worse) than liking Bach. But perhaps it is indicative of your ability to discern quality. | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On January 17 2012 07:13 MichaelEU wrote: What is plot? As I love to quote: "a fart is a plot." Is a plot an event? Why is dialogue not an event? Dialogue is interaction, is interaction not an event? Is interaction not character exposure? Is that not plot? I take great delight in the dialogue so do I not delight in the plot? In the quest of ridding ambiguity, search for "what it is" that is "lacking" in the Monogatari series. However lacking is the wrong word since it implies that not having "that thing" is wrong. More correctly, it is "something" Sentenal and perhaps sopas wishes to see in the series that would make it more to their liking, which the former fully admits. But do not mistake it for a mistake. I myself would not have it any other way. Nisioisin in all its brutal honesty, subtlety. Back to "that thing," that "something," whatever it may be, Sentenal makes a comparison to the Seikai series and extracts his "thing" from the differences between the series. I have not yet indulged myself in the Seikai series, but I am sure he himself knows what "that thing" is. "That thing" might be something different for you or you or you. However be extremely careful with the words "it would have been better if it had X" and instead say "I would have liked it more if it had X." There's a big difference between the two. I just said the same thing twice, I'll say it thrice. To quote: Part of me wants to say that it is possible to quantify qualitative features. Even if it were possible however, humans are typically bad at discerning what is "quality" and what is what they "like". This does imply that quality would have to be something commonly agreed upon. (is quality democratic? a sign of the times?) (an example out of music: I think Bach is truly timeless, mathematically eloquent, emotionally varied) It would also mean that it is not, as NationInArms says, that what you like is what is good and what is bad is what you don't like. If there is a quantification of quality, and I suspect this is the case, it would mean he is wrong. If there isn't it would mean whatever you read for the past 5 minutes is null and void. On the assumption that it isn't, however, I would like to end with saying that it cannot be wrong to "like" something "bad" nor to "dislike" something "good," just like how liking Bieber doesn't make you any better (or worse) than liking Bach. But perhaps it is indicative of your ability to discern quality. So, does Lucky Star now have a plot? It has interactions, it has events. Must be an anime with a plot! Depending on what definition of the word you use, yeah, sure. The definition of what I normally think of when someone says "plot" refers to the story that is being told. Is the story of Bakemonogatari about Araragi talking to all the various people he meets for episodes on end, or is it about Araragi solving whatever their supernatural problem is? The former doesn't strike me as a plot, but I guess it could, although " people talking to each other" sounds like a pointless thing to make a story about. Additionally, I agree with Nationinarms about "If I like it, it is good, and if not, then it is bad". Enjoyment of an anime is subjective. Always has been. Are there objectively good anime? I don't think so, and if you think there are, please point them out to me. The only things that can be objectively evaluated in anime are things like animation. If we are talking about the conceptual parts (for example, the plot/story/what the anime is about), then it is all subjective. Only other things outside this stuff that you can objectively evaluate is influence (Evangelion was very influential) and popularity. Neither of which really says anything definitely about the quality, however. | ||
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BrTarolg
United Kingdom3579 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.pspsonywallpaper.com/wp-content/themes/psp3/wallpapers/6577907-lucky-star--konata-using-the-geass.jpg) "I..It's not like i'm watching it for you, I'm just watching for the plot baka!~" | ||
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Emnjay808
United States10666 Posts
I think this OP is super good too... Edit: + Show Spoiler [Ano Natsu 02] + I like where things headed in this episode. The story is kinda moving along quicker than I expected. I especially liked the part where the loli got them all drunk and made them play King's Game or w/e. Good stuff. ^_^ The Ichika girl I liked a lot. They make her all hot and sexy but not ditzy or airheaded. In fact, she seems rather sharp and on top of things (despite the fact that shes from another planet). And shes just a really kind and innocent girl up front. Some may find that boring, but I think its a nice change of pace than what Im usually used to. Well if youre looking for tsundere then the short blue-haired girl should do you justice. I dont like her character that much btw... | ||
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Necrophantasia
Japan299 Posts
The anime is dialogue heavy but not dialogue driven. The anime delivers as much plot per arc as most shows. For example, in two episodes of hitagi crab, + Show Spoiler + He meets a girl with no weight, investigates her, discovers her reason for having no weight, discovers Senjougahara's traumatic past, "defeats" a shinto god, and he starts a friendship with her. All of that happens in 40 minutes. How many anime do the same in the same amount of time? It gets around the time limitation by dropping more lines of dialogue per minute than any anime I've ever seen. And the dialogue is crucial because Bakemonogatari deals with difficult concepts. I seriously question the ability of most of the foreign audience to properly understand the show. Almost every line of Oshino Meme's is a very round about way of hinting at important concepts. For example, how did most people understand what happened in hitagi crab? Most people think as such: + Show Spoiler + Hitagi meets crab while she is depressed, her weight is taken. She gets it back by beating up said crab. But is that what really happened? + Show Spoiler + Why was she begging? The crab didn't take her weight. At least not intentionally. The crab was a god, it's simply there and at the same time not there. The desire for Senjougahara to put her motions somewhere led to her meeting the crab. The crab thought it was doing her a favor. But the gods are a careless bunch. To them, humans are like ants, they care not for "minor" differences between people like gender, personality, etc. The crab in its carelessness took her "omoi" which is a homonym for both thoughts/feelings and weight. That's why she was begging for the god to give her back her memories. But how many people actually got that? Bakemonogatari wouldn't work any other way. The reality is that it moves just as fast as most shows, but it throws out dialogue twice as fast as any other show. This creates the illusion of it moving slowly. But the stronger your Japanese knowledge, the stronger and more meaningful the dialogue is. That's why the book is huge with middle schoolers and much older adults in Japan at the same time. So I ask you people, how is there a lack of plot? If you think it's only about random conversations during random encounters, then I'm afraid you have missed the point of the show. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On January 17 2012 09:50 Necrophantasia wrote: I don't really understand these complaints about Bakemonogatari and by extension Nisemonogatari not having a plot. The anime is dialogue heavy but not dialogue driven. The anime delivers as much plot per arc as most shows. For example, in two episodes of hitagi crab, + Show Spoiler + He meets a girl with no weight, investigates her, discovers her reason for having no weight, discovers Senjougahara's traumatic past, "defeats" a shinto god, and he starts a friendship with her. All of that happens in 40 minutes. How many anime do the same in the same amount of time? It gets around the time limitation by dropping more lines of dialogue per minute than any anime I've ever seen. And the dialogue is crucial because Bakemonogatari deals with difficult concepts. I seriously question the ability of most of the foreign audience to properly understand the show. Almost every line of Oshino Meme's is a very round about way of hinting at important concepts. For example, how people understood what happened in hitagi crab? Most people think as such: + Show Spoiler + Hitagi meets crab while she is depressed, her weight is taken. She gets it back by beating up said crab. But is that what really happened? + Show Spoiler + Why was she begging? The crab didn't take her weight. At least not intentionally. The crab was a god, it's simply there and at the same time not there. The desire for Senjougahara to put her motions somewhere led to her meeting the crab. The crab thought it was doing her a favor. But the gods are a careless bunch. To them, humans are like ants, they care not for "minor" differences between people like gender, personality, etc. The crab in its carelessness took her "omoi" which is a homonym for both thoughts/feelings and weight. That's why she was begging for the god to give her back her memories. But how many people actually got that? Bakemonogatari wouldn't work any other way. The reality is that it moves just as fast as most shows, but it throws out dialogue twice as fast as any other show. This creates the illusion of it moving slowly. But the stronger your Japanese knowledge, the stronger and more meaningful the dialogue is. That's why the book is huge with middle schoolers and much older adults in Japan at the same time. So I ask you people, how is there a lack of plot? If you think it's only about random conversations during random encounters, then I'm afraid you have missed the point of the show. It's just Sentenal doing his usual antics, shouldn't really mind it, he's just tsuntsun like that | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
Additionally, about your point about people not getting what happened with the Crab... Wasn't that pretty obvious? They sorta spelt that out pretty clearly IIRC. | ||
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Emnjay808
United States10666 Posts
On January 17 2012 09:50 Necrophantasia wrote: I don't really understand these complaints about Bakemonogatari and by extension Nisemonogatari not having a plot. The anime is dialogue heavy but not dialogue driven. The anime delivers as much plot per arc as most shows. For example, in two episodes of hitagi crab, + Show Spoiler + He meets a girl with no weight, investigates her, discovers her reason for having no weight, discovers Senjougahara's traumatic past, "defeats" a shinto god, and he starts a friendship with her. All of that happens in 40 minutes. How many anime do the same in the same amount of time? It gets around the time limitation by dropping more lines of dialogue per minute than any anime I've ever seen. And the dialogue is crucial because Bakemonogatari deals with difficult concepts. I seriously question the ability of most of the foreign audience to properly understand the show. Almost every line of Oshino Meme's is a very round about way of hinting at important concepts. For example, how did most people understand what happened in hitagi crab? Most people think as such: + Show Spoiler + Hitagi meets crab while she is depressed, her weight is taken. She gets it back by beating up said crab. But is that what really happened? + Show Spoiler + Why was she begging? The crab didn't take her weight. At least not intentionally. The crab was a god, it's simply there and at the same time not there. The desire for Senjougahara to put her motions somewhere led to her meeting the crab. The crab thought it was doing her a favor. But the gods are a careless bunch. To them, humans are like ants, they care not for "minor" differences between people like gender, personality, etc. The crab in its carelessness took her "omoi" which is a homonym for both thoughts/feelings and weight. That's why she was begging for the god to give her back her memories. But how many people actually got that? Bakemonogatari wouldn't work any other way. The reality is that it moves just as fast as most shows, but it throws out dialogue twice as fast as any other show. This creates the illusion of it moving slowly. But the stronger your Japanese knowledge, the stronger and more meaningful the dialogue is. That's why the book is huge with middle schoolers and much older adults in Japan at the same time. So I ask you people, how is there a lack of plot? If you think it's only about random conversations during random encounters, then I'm afraid you have missed the point of the show. Only thing in Bake/Nise that I didnt get was when Hachikuji did the "Koyomi/Yomiko" reference. Normally I google stuff when something mentioned in the show has a "double meaning" or w/e you wanna call it. But this time around they referred to another character from another anime that I knew nothing about. I really hope they keep this to a minimum, I dont mind it happening once in a while though. But I feel like it takes away something from the audience when they do stuff like this. Im sure its great and hilarious when other people get it, but its not so fun when I have to google it and still not get it. >_> I admit, I feel like there is a barrier between being able to understand the RAW version as opposed to the subbed content for Bake/Nise. They like to focus a lot on special wording or w/e or clever uses of "kanji" symbols. But I feel like subbers do a good job on catching it for you, and the way they do quick "zoom ins" or "cut scenes" also makes it obvious when you know its supposed to be less literal or has a deeper meaning. You know what. I dont even know what Im saying anymore. So Im just gonna go ahead and hit the "Post" button. | ||
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Necrophantasia
Japan299 Posts
But they most certainly didn't explicitly explain everything. Most people dont understand how the whole thing was just an accident made by the crab. Or rather it didn't care enough to figure things out properly. A lot of people just get by on the "fluff" as you call it, because they find the delivery amusing. Most of the conversations foreshadow something thats going to happen later or give insight onto it. I haven't spoiled myself on all of Nisemonogatari, but I'll be damned if that convo he had with mayoi in ep 1 doesn't come in important with his two sisters later. Nadekos conversation actually has some incredible foreshadowing of what happens in her next arc. It all comes together brilliantly. Ah and yes. The fansubbers are pretty amazing. The speed and accuracy and detail really shows passion for the show. I wonder if official subs would convey the same thing. | ||
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Emnjay808
United States10666 Posts
On January 17 2012 10:25 Necrophantasia wrote: They did explain some of it. But they most certainly didn't explicitly explain everything. Most people dont understand how the whole thing was just an accident made by the crab. Or rather it didn't care enough to figure things out properly. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EUcra.png) I got that part. Really brilliant how one line can explain a lot. On January 17 2012 10:25 Necrophantasia wrote: A lot of people just get by on the "fluff" as you call it, because they find the delivery amusing. Most of the conversations foreshadow something thats going to happen later or give insight onto it. I haven't spoiled myself on all of Nisemonogatari, but I'll be damned if that convo he had with mayoi in ep 1 doesn't come in important with his two sisters later. Nadekos conversation actually has some incredible foreshadowing of what happens in her next arc. It all comes together brilliantly. That would be really amazing if thats true. I dont mind rewatching Bake/Nise over and over again, as long as I can catch on to the little clues. Thats what makes it so enjoyable for me. | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On January 17 2012 10:25 Necrophantasia wrote: They did explain some of it. But they most certainly didn't explicitly explain everything. Most people dont understand how the whole thing was just an accident made by the crab. Or rather it didn't care enough to figure things out properly. A lot of people just get by on the "fluff" as you call it, because they find the delivery amusing. Most of the conversations foreshadow something thats going to happen later or give insight onto it. I haven't spoiled myself on all of Nisemonogatari, but I'll be damned if that convo he had with mayoi in ep 1 doesn't come in important with his two sisters later. Nadekos conversation actually has some incredible foreshadowing of what happens in her next arc. It all comes together brilliantly. The dialogue itself can be humorous at parts, but overall I wasn't much of a fan overall. Overall it just felt really slow, especially during parts where I had to pause to read those insert card things that pop up with alot of text. Maybe it was just an illusion of being slow, getting back to the language thing, but it certainly felt that way to me. I'm also not a fan of Shaft's art style. However, I do like fanservice. So all of this combines into a show that just leaves me with a bored, uninterested feeling. I didn't even hate Bakemonogatari, I ended up giving the show a 6, which is basically "On the 'meh' end of average" to me. [20:35] <ecael> sigh [20:36] <ecael> sent you here? [20:36] <ecael> I am too lazy [20:36] <ecael> to actually explain [20:36] <Sentenal> whatshttp://images.4chan.org/m/src/1326763985357.jpg [20:36] <ecael> but basically Necro is wrongt [20:36] <kupon3ss> lol [20:36] <ecael> in how he is explaining thingd [20:36] <ecael> s [20:36] <ecael> or [20:36] <ecael> he just doesn't get it [20:36] <ecael> either way [20:36] <Emnjay808> necro on bake/nise? [20:36] <Sentenal> hes wrong? [20:36] <ecael> I don't want to bother clarifying so you can just beat on him for being wrong [20:36] <ecael> yes [20:36] <Sentenal> ok [20:37] <ecael> maybe after I eat lunch I'll get some motivation [20:37] <ecael> but the whole thing was not an accident Ecael says the Crab taking away the weight wasn't an accident. I think. | ||
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