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Can we have a philosophical argument about what makes an anime good and how we are morally or personally corrupted for saying something is bad?
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On January 17 2012 02:48 Shiragaku wrote:
Can we have a philosophical argument about what makes an anime good and how we are morally or personally corrupted for saying something is bad?
Nope, this is the internet. Allow me to start.
*Ahem*
Your opinion is shit, you faggot.
But honestly, it depends on a person to person basis. Do you need good characters for a series to be good, or will a good plot suffice? Can you deal with crappy animation if the story carries well? How do you feel about mood whiplash, which is a big part of some anime (serious mood, suddenly chibis and something wacky happens, then plot resumes)?
You can say that there are things that are empirically good/bad about some series. Crisp animation, smooth framerates, a well written musical score that matches the mood. These things are more or less impossible to argue against. Everything else, though, is completely subjective when it comes to "good".
I think Vash is the best conceived character I've ever seen. A simple ideal personified, with depth of any other character on top of it. His interactions with others and personal story makes him great. I have, however, been told by others that he's a terrible character because he doesn't change as much as they'd like. However, I like that he doesn't change, since that's who he's supposed to be.
I think Bleach (and yes I know there's a seperate thread, just an example) had a pretty interesting story and structure before/during Soul Society, but still kind of trite. Others think it is/was the best shounen series out there. Others think it sucked from the start.
You can't say what is intrinsically "good" or "bad", other than the very basics, like art, music, and maybe originality.
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On January 17 2012 02:40 Requizen wrote:
While I can't speak to the other series, I think Spice and Wolf is very well done, is a lot different from most series out now (not a lot of supernatural economic romances out there), and has very good pacing and characters. It's widespread, as it offers a lot to many different viewers/readers, which means it has a very popular vote.
Is it the best series ever? Nah, but it's good. It is, in the end, a series about economics, which is rather long winded if you're not super interested. I like it, but I can understand mixed feelings on it.
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In other news, I was so happy when everything finally started updating again. Didn't realize how much I missed opening up a scan site and having a bunch of chapters to get. Makes me feel all fuzzy inside.
mfw when S&W is about economics. xD It was entertaining at least though.
Also, I just watched that Ano Natsu show.....
+ Show Spoiler +Rooting for blue haired chick! o/
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On January 17 2012 03:30 Taku wrote:New GE + Show Spoiler +Oh shit he's taking responsibility, this is new :O
+ Show Spoiler +Just when I really was hating this MC, he's starting to not act like a complete idiot anymore. I'm actually pretty interested as to where this'll go next. Can't help but feel bad for Yuki though.
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On January 17 2012 02:48 Shiragaku wrote:
Can we have a philosophical argument about what makes an anime good and how we are morally or personally corrupted for saying something is bad?
If you like an anime, then it's good. If you don't, then it's bad. Nothing philosophical about that. :S It's all relative pretty much. Saying that cheeseburgers are bad doesn't mean you're an evil person.
Freezing
+ Show Spoiler +I like where this is going, but if it turns out that Chevalier created the Nova then forget it.
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What if I think an anime is good but I don't like it?
Philosophize nothing about that.
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On January 17 2012 04:34 MichaelEU wrote:
What if I think an anime is good but I don't like it?
Philosophize nothing about that.
"It's a good show, but not really my style."
I can go to a classical art museum and be bored out of my mind, even though I recognize the beauty and skill behind the paintings. Respecting something and liking it aren't intrinsically tied.
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On January 17 2012 03:16 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 02:40 Requizen wrote:
While I can't speak to the other series, I think Spice and Wolf is very well done, is a lot different from most series out now (not a lot of supernatural economic romances out there), and has very good pacing and characters. It's widespread, as it offers a lot to many different viewers/readers, which means it has a very popular vote.
Is it the best series ever? Nah, but it's good. It is, in the end, a series about economics, which is rather long winded if you're not super interested. I like it, but I can understand mixed feelings on it.
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In other news, I was so happy when everything finally started updating again. Didn't realize how much I missed opening up a scan site and having a bunch of chapters to get. Makes me feel all fuzzy inside. mfw when S&W is about economics. xD It was entertaining at least though. Also, I just watched that Ano Natsu show..... + Show Spoiler +Rooting for blue haired chick! o/
lol S&W is about economics
I am too lazy to quote the same post again for the nth time in this thread, someone do it for me please.
I had the original 2ch thread in txt form somewhere so at some point I'll go through it, atm it is a far superior S&W, but it isn't about economics either. I suppose you can argue that the main point behind the series is based on a basic macro principle. Other than that though, it is more a series revolving about the curiosity in rapidly introducing new scientific innovations from beyond the era's time in a weird world setting. Sadly, even that involves more economics in 8 chapters of manga than S&W managed for the entire series.
On January 17 2012 02:40 sopas wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 02:29 MichaelEU wrote:On January 17 2012 02:16 sopas wrote:On January 17 2012 01:26 Shiragaku wrote:[spoiler]edit: random guy from KawaiiRice's chat: "spice and wolf > monogatari series" oh god... Well...yeah! (inb4 flamewar) yup cant understand teh overrated Your opinion is overrated. The word overrated is overrated. Overrated is your opinion. Overrated is an incredibly devoid word which says more about the user than the used upon. ima hipster but no, dialogue driven anime are good if the dialogue is, well, good.. Bakemonogatari was still fine(ish) though, dont get me wrong. i realized i shouldnt be talking about the monogatari series when ive only seen one of them, misread sry.
Your opinion might hold some stock if the original post didn't involve S&W, even Lucky Star would have made for a more reasonable argument.
Just because you don't understand a language nor care enough to read translation notes doesn't make the dialogue bad.
On January 17 2012 04:34 MichaelEU wrote:
What if I think an anime is good but I don't like it?
Philosophize nothing about that.
We call it the Sentenal syndrome, Michael. You have been infected by tsundere.
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Here you go Eca.
On May 14 2011 01:51 Ecael wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2011 00:22 OutlaW- wrote:I love horo, but that's not the only reason I enjoyed this anime. Explain being like some random girl from a harem anime, though. She seemed to me like the most developed romance character I've yet seen. also, dont stomp my amazing feeling of the anime too much, but i really loved it  Watch more, I guess, Horo has no depth. The show's discussion of economics and finances is nonexistent for all practical purposes because the author just wasn't smart enough. So like Southlight said, any conflict just works out to be Lawrence fucking up somehow and Horo miracles up a way to save him. Cute for a few times, tedius in the long run. Ignoring how that sucks in itself, it also puts Horo in a very limited position far as character development goes. So really by the middle of the anime series, after the first like two vols of LN content, there just wasn't anything else to develop about Horo. It just turns into this thing of weighing homesickness and a longing for the past vs the present and romance. That's ok too, but there is no progression beyond that because the author wants to write another dozen books to milk the series with. So we have a character with very limited room for development, what can we do with that? Good conversations, thus why Gahara-san was mentioned. Horo's lines, unfortunately, were not witty as much as they were just flirty. Dunno about you, but I can't pay attention to those two flirting for a whole series. As for being like a random girl from a harem anime, minus being a wolf, Horo is just a tsundere. By this day and age, you'd better have some amazingly well done tsundere to stand out. Not the case here. Show nested quote +On May 14 2011 00:27 Kaal wrote:
1) the author's not smart enough (might be different in the books). For a story so heavily laden with economy, merchantry, and financials it was a bit bizarre to see most of the plots revolving around some underhanded merchantry as opposed to direct economics. This is all the more bizarre when you consider that the protagonist is supposed to be relatively veteran when it comes to these things, and yet he makes the most stupid of blunders, and the plot device goes as such:
What? WTF you talking about? Spice and Wolf is just about Horo being cute. and that is why it sucks.
And if you were looking for Southlight's:
On December 05 2010 07:23 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 06:45 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Hmm....
I think the first few shots were a little bit iffy to me.
But I think I'll give it another try. I dislike Spice and Wolf a fair bit. The premise is interesting enough; a young (male, this becomes important later on) merchant is on his regular trade route when he stops by a village during their wheat harvesting festival - the idea is that they show appreciation to the "ancient wolf" that had blessed their land many years ago. As per usual, the festival is a sort of capitalist bastardization of the events. Come one night he wakes up to find a human/wolf/thing stowed away in his cart - this is his encounter with the wise old wolf, which would set up the journey the two of them make to find and bring her to her "home." However, therein starts to lie some issues. 1) the author's not smart enough (might be different in the books). For a story so heavily laden with economy, merchantry, and financials it was a bit bizarre to see most of the plots revolving around some underhanded merchantry as opposed to direct economics. This is all the more bizarre when you consider that the protagonist is supposed to be relatively veteran when it comes to these things, and yet he makes the most stupid of blunders, and the plot device goes as such: a) MC makes retarded blunder that would throw people into prison for debt b) by fortune, quick wits, and Horo's cunning, he makes it out c) moves to next town d) go back to a this is aggravating, and further is compounded by 2) Horo's cunning tends to be long-winded (never direct, always does these willy-nilly coy BS that overdramaticizes the main character's plight for 5 episodes before being "solved" in some dumb way.) This then underlines 3) Most of the anime series ends up becoming more of a series of flirtation between the two than an actual "wise old sage vs young lad." While it's not too surprising for a Japanese LN (and I say this with an obvious sarcastic, distasteful tone) it really ruins the premise of Horo the character and starts a downspiral of bad. I don't recommend it unless you fall in love with Horo. I'm a staunch believer in that being the one and only reason people actually like the anime. Edit: TL;DR For the series to be good, Horo needed to be like Senjougahara from Bakemonogatari. Instead she ended up being like some random girl from a harem anime of your choice. Good game.
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On January 17 2012 04:53 Zergneedsfood wrote:Here you go Eca. Show nested quote +On May 14 2011 01:51 Ecael wrote:On May 14 2011 00:22 OutlaW- wrote:I love horo, but that's not the only reason I enjoyed this anime. Explain being like some random girl from a harem anime, though. She seemed to me like the most developed romance character I've yet seen. also, dont stomp my amazing feeling of the anime too much, but i really loved it Watch more, I guess, Horo has no depth. The show's discussion of economics and finances is nonexistent for all practical purposes because the author just wasn't smart enough. So like Southlight said, any conflict just works out to be Lawrence fucking up somehow and Horo miracles up a way to save him. Cute for a few times, tedius in the long run. Ignoring how that sucks in itself, it also puts Horo in a very limited position far as character development goes. So really by the middle of the anime series, after the first like two vols of LN content, there just wasn't anything else to develop about Horo. It just turns into this thing of weighing homesickness and a longing for the past vs the present and romance. That's ok too, but there is no progression beyond that because the author wants to write another dozen books to milk the series with. So we have a character with very limited room for development, what can we do with that? Good conversations, thus why Gahara-san was mentioned. Horo's lines, unfortunately, were not witty as much as they were just flirty. Dunno about you, but I can't pay attention to those two flirting for a whole series. As for being like a random girl from a harem anime, minus being a wolf, Horo is just a tsundere. By this day and age, you'd better have some amazingly well done tsundere to stand out. Not the case here. On May 14 2011 00:27 Kaal wrote:
1) the author's not smart enough (might be different in the books). For a story so heavily laden with economy, merchantry, and financials it was a bit bizarre to see most of the plots revolving around some underhanded merchantry as opposed to direct economics. This is all the more bizarre when you consider that the protagonist is supposed to be relatively veteran when it comes to these things, and yet he makes the most stupid of blunders, and the plot device goes as such:
What? WTF you talking about? Spice and Wolf is just about Horo being cute. and that is why it sucks. And if you were looking for Southlight's: Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 07:23 Southlight wrote:On December 05 2010 06:45 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Hmm....
I think the first few shots were a little bit iffy to me.
But I think I'll give it another try. I dislike Spice and Wolf a fair bit. The premise is interesting enough; a young (male, this becomes important later on) merchant is on his regular trade route when he stops by a village during their wheat harvesting festival - the idea is that they show appreciation to the "ancient wolf" that had blessed their land many years ago. As per usual, the festival is a sort of capitalist bastardization of the events. Come one night he wakes up to find a human/wolf/thing stowed away in his cart - this is his encounter with the wise old wolf, which would set up the journey the two of them make to find and bring her to her "home." However, therein starts to lie some issues. 1) the author's not smart enough (might be different in the books). For a story so heavily laden with economy, merchantry, and financials it was a bit bizarre to see most of the plots revolving around some underhanded merchantry as opposed to direct economics. This is all the more bizarre when you consider that the protagonist is supposed to be relatively veteran when it comes to these things, and yet he makes the most stupid of blunders, and the plot device goes as such: a) MC makes retarded blunder that would throw people into prison for debt b) by fortune, quick wits, and Horo's cunning, he makes it out c) moves to next town d) go back to a this is aggravating, and further is compounded by 2) Horo's cunning tends to be long-winded (never direct, always does these willy-nilly coy BS that overdramaticizes the main character's plight for 5 episodes before being "solved" in some dumb way.) This then underlines 3) Most of the anime series ends up becoming more of a series of flirtation between the two than an actual "wise old sage vs young lad." While it's not too surprising for a Japanese LN (and I say this with an obvious sarcastic, distasteful tone) it really ruins the premise of Horo the character and starts a downspiral of bad. I don't recommend it unless you fall in love with Horo. I'm a staunch believer in that being the one and only reason people actually like the anime. Edit: TL;DR For the series to be good, Horo needed to be like Senjougahara from Bakemonogatari. Instead she ended up being like some random girl from a harem anime of your choice. Good game.
Search master-ZNF finding shit buried in a 1777 page thread since 2012
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It is, in the end, a series about economics
Where is Caller?
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On January 17 2012 04:57 Kaal wrote:Where is Caller?
last seen in the Touhou Discussion Thread
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On January 17 2012 04:57 Kaal wrote:Where is Caller?
Heh, nice sig
I guess I must have missed something, I really only watched most of the first season, does it just get more formulaic from there? I didn't really get tired of Horo being cute or anything, from the sounds of it not finishing it may have been a good thing.
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Incidentally, Blast, you linked the wrong one. Though it is honestly easy to get mixed up when a series has like 4~5 manga adaptations somehow.
...more amazing is the fact that they hardly differ in any way except for mangaka, well, one of it is more of a side story and another is just a 4koma flat out, but yeah.
On January 17 2012 04:56 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 04:53 Zergneedsfood wrote:Here you go Eca. On May 14 2011 01:51 Ecael wrote:On May 14 2011 00:22 OutlaW- wrote:I love horo, but that's not the only reason I enjoyed this anime. Explain being like some random girl from a harem anime, though. She seemed to me like the most developed romance character I've yet seen. also, dont stomp my amazing feeling of the anime too much, but i really loved it Watch more, I guess, Horo has no depth. The show's discussion of economics and finances is nonexistent for all practical purposes because the author just wasn't smart enough. So like Southlight said, any conflict just works out to be Lawrence fucking up somehow and Horo miracles up a way to save him. Cute for a few times, tedius in the long run. Ignoring how that sucks in itself, it also puts Horo in a very limited position far as character development goes. So really by the middle of the anime series, after the first like two vols of LN content, there just wasn't anything else to develop about Horo. It just turns into this thing of weighing homesickness and a longing for the past vs the present and romance. That's ok too, but there is no progression beyond that because the author wants to write another dozen books to milk the series with. So we have a character with very limited room for development, what can we do with that? Good conversations, thus why Gahara-san was mentioned. Horo's lines, unfortunately, were not witty as much as they were just flirty. Dunno about you, but I can't pay attention to those two flirting for a whole series. As for being like a random girl from a harem anime, minus being a wolf, Horo is just a tsundere. By this day and age, you'd better have some amazingly well done tsundere to stand out. Not the case here. On May 14 2011 00:27 Kaal wrote:
1) the author's not smart enough (might be different in the books). For a story so heavily laden with economy, merchantry, and financials it was a bit bizarre to see most of the plots revolving around some underhanded merchantry as opposed to direct economics. This is all the more bizarre when you consider that the protagonist is supposed to be relatively veteran when it comes to these things, and yet he makes the most stupid of blunders, and the plot device goes as such:
What? WTF you talking about? Spice and Wolf is just about Horo being cute. and that is why it sucks. And if you were looking for Southlight's: On December 05 2010 07:23 Southlight wrote:On December 05 2010 06:45 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Hmm....
I think the first few shots were a little bit iffy to me.
But I think I'll give it another try. I dislike Spice and Wolf a fair bit. The premise is interesting enough; a young (male, this becomes important later on) merchant is on his regular trade route when he stops by a village during their wheat harvesting festival - the idea is that they show appreciation to the "ancient wolf" that had blessed their land many years ago. As per usual, the festival is a sort of capitalist bastardization of the events. Come one night he wakes up to find a human/wolf/thing stowed away in his cart - this is his encounter with the wise old wolf, which would set up the journey the two of them make to find and bring her to her "home." However, therein starts to lie some issues. 1) the author's not smart enough (might be different in the books). For a story so heavily laden with economy, merchantry, and financials it was a bit bizarre to see most of the plots revolving around some underhanded merchantry as opposed to direct economics. This is all the more bizarre when you consider that the protagonist is supposed to be relatively veteran when it comes to these things, and yet he makes the most stupid of blunders, and the plot device goes as such: a) MC makes retarded blunder that would throw people into prison for debt b) by fortune, quick wits, and Horo's cunning, he makes it out c) moves to next town d) go back to a this is aggravating, and further is compounded by 2) Horo's cunning tends to be long-winded (never direct, always does these willy-nilly coy BS that overdramaticizes the main character's plight for 5 episodes before being "solved" in some dumb way.) This then underlines 3) Most of the anime series ends up becoming more of a series of flirtation between the two than an actual "wise old sage vs young lad." While it's not too surprising for a Japanese LN (and I say this with an obvious sarcastic, distasteful tone) it really ruins the premise of Horo the character and starts a downspiral of bad. I don't recommend it unless you fall in love with Horo. I'm a staunch believer in that being the one and only reason people actually like the anime. Edit: TL;DR For the series to be good, Horo needed to be like Senjougahara from Bakemonogatari. Instead she ended up being like some random girl from a harem anime of your choice. Good game. Search master-ZNF finding shit buried in a 1777 page thread since 2012
To be fair, when posts get linked as often here as those two posts, they aren't too hard to find. I was just lazy and pressed for time.
On January 17 2012 05:03 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 04:57 Kaal wrote:It is, in the end, a series about economics Where is Caller? Heh, nice sig I guess I must have missed something, I really only watched most of the first season, does it just get more formulaic from there? I didn't really get tired of Horo being cute or anything, from the sounds of it not finishing it may have been a good thing.
Consider this the other way around, would S&W have become anything but formulaic? Given what you've seen of season 1,
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On January 17 2012 01:26 Shiragaku wrote:Show nested quote +[spoiler]edit: random guy from KawaiiRice's chat: "spice and wolf > monogatari series" oh god... Well...yeah! (inb4 flamewar) But anyway, I was watching Air again and I realized that Key had to potential to make it the best and most depressing VN/Anime out of their works but completely blew it. And I am considering starting Muv-Luv, should I read it or is it not worth it?
MuvLvu is definitely worth it. Muvluv Alternative is one of the highest rated VNs of all time, and several people in this thread enjoyed it alot. The first two (Muvluv Extra and Unlimited) are average to bad depending on your tastes, but Alternative takes it up to a whole new level. My suggestion is to do 2 routes in Extra to unlock Unlimited, then one Unlimited route, then move onto Alternative. And also, in case you don't like Extra, rest assured that Unlimited things get alot better, and then things get alot better even more in Alternative.
On January 17 2012 02:40 sopas wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 02:29 MichaelEU wrote:On January 17 2012 02:16 sopas wrote:On January 17 2012 01:26 Shiragaku wrote:[spoiler]edit: random guy from KawaiiRice's chat: "spice and wolf > monogatari series" oh god... Well...yeah! (inb4 flamewar) yup cant understand teh overrated Your opinion is overrated. The word overrated is overrated. Overrated is your opinion. Overrated is an incredibly devoid word which says more about the user than the used upon. ima hipster but no, dialogue driven anime are good if the dialogue is, well, good.. Bakemonogatari was still fine(ish) though, dont get me wrong. i realized i shouldnt be talking about the monogatari series when ive only seen one of them, misread sry.
Bakemonogatari is dialogue driven, but that wasn't my problem with the show. Dialogue driven anime is fine, as long as the anime goes somewhere, stuff happens, and the plot moves forward. The plot does move forward in Bake, but holy shit does it move forward slowly, with a whole lot of fluff. So its not that dialogue is bad (It probably isn't, I don't speak japanese), its that other than dialogue there isn't much else. Nisemonogatari seems to be packing in as much fanservice as possible to compensate (way more than even what Bake did), so IDK if its better or worse lol.
An example of a series that is heavy in dialogue, but doesn't suffer from the above would be the Crest/Banner of the Stars series. Bakemonogatari would probably be more enjoyable if I understood Japanese, but I don't, therefore can't really judge how much more I would like it otherwise (and barely anyone in this thread other than a few understand Japanese either).
On January 17 2012 04:44 Ecael wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 04:34 MichaelEU wrote:
What if I think an anime is good but I don't like it?
Philosophize nothing about that. We call it the Sentenal syndrome, Michael. You have been infected by tsundere.
So basically, all the anime I don't like, I actually think is good...? Wat.
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On January 17 2012 05:29 Ecael wrote:Incidentally, Blast, you linked the wrong one. Though it is honestly easy to get mixed up when a series has like 4~5 manga adaptations somehow. ...more amazing is the fact that they hardly differ in any way except for mangaka, well, one of it is more of a side story and another is just a 4koma flat out, but yeah. Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 04:56 Blasterion wrote:On January 17 2012 04:53 Zergneedsfood wrote:Here you go Eca. On May 14 2011 01:51 Ecael wrote:On May 14 2011 00:22 OutlaW- wrote:I love horo, but that's not the only reason I enjoyed this anime. Explain being like some random girl from a harem anime, though. She seemed to me like the most developed romance character I've yet seen. also, dont stomp my amazing feeling of the anime too much, but i really loved it Watch more, I guess, Horo has no depth. The show's discussion of economics and finances is nonexistent for all practical purposes because the author just wasn't smart enough. So like Southlight said, any conflict just works out to be Lawrence fucking up somehow and Horo miracles up a way to save him. Cute for a few times, tedius in the long run. Ignoring how that sucks in itself, it also puts Horo in a very limited position far as character development goes. So really by the middle of the anime series, after the first like two vols of LN content, there just wasn't anything else to develop about Horo. It just turns into this thing of weighing homesickness and a longing for the past vs the present and romance. That's ok too, but there is no progression beyond that because the author wants to write another dozen books to milk the series with. So we have a character with very limited room for development, what can we do with that? Good conversations, thus why Gahara-san was mentioned. Horo's lines, unfortunately, were not witty as much as they were just flirty. Dunno about you, but I can't pay attention to those two flirting for a whole series. As for being like a random girl from a harem anime, minus being a wolf, Horo is just a tsundere. By this day and age, you'd better have some amazingly well done tsundere to stand out. Not the case here. On May 14 2011 00:27 Kaal wrote:
1) the author's not smart enough (might be different in the books). For a story so heavily laden with economy, merchantry, and financials it was a bit bizarre to see most of the plots revolving around some underhanded merchantry as opposed to direct economics. This is all the more bizarre when you consider that the protagonist is supposed to be relatively veteran when it comes to these things, and yet he makes the most stupid of blunders, and the plot device goes as such:
What? WTF you talking about? Spice and Wolf is just about Horo being cute. and that is why it sucks. And if you were looking for Southlight's: On December 05 2010 07:23 Southlight wrote:On December 05 2010 06:45 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Hmm....
I think the first few shots were a little bit iffy to me.
But I think I'll give it another try. I dislike Spice and Wolf a fair bit. The premise is interesting enough; a young (male, this becomes important later on) merchant is on his regular trade route when he stops by a village during their wheat harvesting festival - the idea is that they show appreciation to the "ancient wolf" that had blessed their land many years ago. As per usual, the festival is a sort of capitalist bastardization of the events. Come one night he wakes up to find a human/wolf/thing stowed away in his cart - this is his encounter with the wise old wolf, which would set up the journey the two of them make to find and bring her to her "home." However, therein starts to lie some issues. 1) the author's not smart enough (might be different in the books). For a story so heavily laden with economy, merchantry, and financials it was a bit bizarre to see most of the plots revolving around some underhanded merchantry as opposed to direct economics. This is all the more bizarre when you consider that the protagonist is supposed to be relatively veteran when it comes to these things, and yet he makes the most stupid of blunders, and the plot device goes as such: a) MC makes retarded blunder that would throw people into prison for debt b) by fortune, quick wits, and Horo's cunning, he makes it out c) moves to next town d) go back to a this is aggravating, and further is compounded by 2) Horo's cunning tends to be long-winded (never direct, always does these willy-nilly coy BS that overdramaticizes the main character's plight for 5 episodes before being "solved" in some dumb way.) This then underlines 3) Most of the anime series ends up becoming more of a series of flirtation between the two than an actual "wise old sage vs young lad." While it's not too surprising for a Japanese LN (and I say this with an obvious sarcastic, distasteful tone) it really ruins the premise of Horo the character and starts a downspiral of bad. I don't recommend it unless you fall in love with Horo. I'm a staunch believer in that being the one and only reason people actually like the anime. Edit: TL;DR For the series to be good, Horo needed to be like Senjougahara from Bakemonogatari. Instead she ended up being like some random girl from a harem anime of your choice. Good game. Search master-ZNF finding shit buried in a 1777 page thread since 2012 To be fair, when posts get linked as often here as those two posts, they aren't too hard to find. I was just lazy and pressed for time. Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 05:03 Requizen wrote:On January 17 2012 04:57 Kaal wrote:It is, in the end, a series about economics Where is Caller? Heh, nice sig I guess I must have missed something, I really only watched most of the first season, does it just get more formulaic from there? I didn't really get tired of Horo being cute or anything, from the sounds of it not finishing it may have been a good thing. Consider this the other way around, would S&W have become anything but formulaic? Given what you've seen of season 1,
Eh, I felt like it had potential if they moved past the "wandering salesman is wandering" bit and focused on them going North and fulfilling her wish to go home. I liked the characters, from what I watched of them, they had good chemistry and made it pretty enjoyable to sit through. Plus, the atmosphere was really good, nothing felt really forced about the art/music/settings/etc.
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On January 17 2012 04:44 Ecael wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 03:16 Zergneedsfood wrote:On January 17 2012 02:40 Requizen wrote:
While I can't speak to the other series, I think Spice and Wolf is very well done, is a lot different from most series out now (not a lot of supernatural economic romances out there), and has very good pacing and characters. It's widespread, as it offers a lot to many different viewers/readers, which means it has a very popular vote.
Is it the best series ever? Nah, but it's good. It is, in the end, a series about economics, which is rather long winded if you're not super interested. I like it, but I can understand mixed feelings on it.
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In other news, I was so happy when everything finally started updating again. Didn't realize how much I missed opening up a scan site and having a bunch of chapters to get. Makes me feel all fuzzy inside. mfw when S&W is about economics. xD It was entertaining at least though. Also, I just watched that Ano Natsu show..... + Show Spoiler +Rooting for blue haired chick! o/ lol S&W is about economics I am too lazy to quote the same post again for the nth time in this thread, someone do it for me please. I had the original 2ch thread in txt form somewhere so at some point I'll go through it, atm it is a far superior S&W, but it isn't about economics either. I suppose you can argue that the main point behind the series is based on a basic macro principle. Other than that though, it is more a series revolving about the curiosity in rapidly introducing new scientific innovations from beyond the era's time in a weird world setting. Sadly, even that involves more economics in 8 chapters of manga than S&W managed for the entire series. Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 02:40 sopas wrote:On January 17 2012 02:29 MichaelEU wrote:On January 17 2012 02:16 sopas wrote:On January 17 2012 01:26 Shiragaku wrote:[spoiler]edit: random guy from KawaiiRice's chat: "spice and wolf > monogatari series" oh god... Well...yeah! (inb4 flamewar) yup cant understand teh overrated Your opinion is overrated. The word overrated is overrated. Overrated is your opinion. Overrated is an incredibly devoid word which says more about the user than the used upon. ima hipster but no, dialogue driven anime are good if the dialogue is, well, good.. Bakemonogatari was still fine(ish) though, dont get me wrong. i realized i shouldnt be talking about the monogatari series when ive only seen one of them, misread sry. Your opinion might hold some stock if the original post didn't involve S&W, even Lucky Star would have made for a more reasonable argument. Just because you don't understand a language nor care enough to read translation notes doesn't make the dialogue bad. Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 04:34 MichaelEU wrote:
What if I think an anime is good but I don't like it?
Philosophize nothing about that. We call it the Sentenal syndrome, Michael. You have been infected by tsundere.
i bet it was real deep for u ;')
i don't rly think much of sw, it wasn't originally my argument anyway,just something to make a trollish comment about monogatari.
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On January 17 2012 05:43 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 05:29 Ecael wrote:Incidentally, Blast, you linked the wrong one. Though it is honestly easy to get mixed up when a series has like 4~5 manga adaptations somehow. ...more amazing is the fact that they hardly differ in any way except for mangaka, well, one of it is more of a side story and another is just a 4koma flat out, but yeah. On January 17 2012 04:56 Blasterion wrote:On January 17 2012 04:53 Zergneedsfood wrote:Here you go Eca. On May 14 2011 01:51 Ecael wrote:On May 14 2011 00:22 OutlaW- wrote:I love horo, but that's not the only reason I enjoyed this anime. Explain being like some random girl from a harem anime, though. She seemed to me like the most developed romance character I've yet seen. also, dont stomp my amazing feeling of the anime too much, but i really loved it Watch more, I guess, Horo has no depth. The show's discussion of economics and finances is nonexistent for all practical purposes because the author just wasn't smart enough. So like Southlight said, any conflict just works out to be Lawrence fucking up somehow and Horo miracles up a way to save him. Cute for a few times, tedius in the long run. Ignoring how that sucks in itself, it also puts Horo in a very limited position far as character development goes. So really by the middle of the anime series, after the first like two vols of LN content, there just wasn't anything else to develop about Horo. It just turns into this thing of weighing homesickness and a longing for the past vs the present and romance. That's ok too, but there is no progression beyond that because the author wants to write another dozen books to milk the series with. So we have a character with very limited room for development, what can we do with that? Good conversations, thus why Gahara-san was mentioned. Horo's lines, unfortunately, were not witty as much as they were just flirty. Dunno about you, but I can't pay attention to those two flirting for a whole series. As for being like a random girl from a harem anime, minus being a wolf, Horo is just a tsundere. By this day and age, you'd better have some amazingly well done tsundere to stand out. Not the case here. On May 14 2011 00:27 Kaal wrote:
1) the author's not smart enough (might be different in the books). For a story so heavily laden with economy, merchantry, and financials it was a bit bizarre to see most of the plots revolving around some underhanded merchantry as opposed to direct economics. This is all the more bizarre when you consider that the protagonist is supposed to be relatively veteran when it comes to these things, and yet he makes the most stupid of blunders, and the plot device goes as such:
What? WTF you talking about? Spice and Wolf is just about Horo being cute. and that is why it sucks. And if you were looking for Southlight's: On December 05 2010 07:23 Southlight wrote:On December 05 2010 06:45 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Hmm....
I think the first few shots were a little bit iffy to me.
But I think I'll give it another try. I dislike Spice and Wolf a fair bit. The premise is interesting enough; a young (male, this becomes important later on) merchant is on his regular trade route when he stops by a village during their wheat harvesting festival - the idea is that they show appreciation to the "ancient wolf" that had blessed their land many years ago. As per usual, the festival is a sort of capitalist bastardization of the events. Come one night he wakes up to find a human/wolf/thing stowed away in his cart - this is his encounter with the wise old wolf, which would set up the journey the two of them make to find and bring her to her "home." However, therein starts to lie some issues. 1) the author's not smart enough (might be different in the books). For a story so heavily laden with economy, merchantry, and financials it was a bit bizarre to see most of the plots revolving around some underhanded merchantry as opposed to direct economics. This is all the more bizarre when you consider that the protagonist is supposed to be relatively veteran when it comes to these things, and yet he makes the most stupid of blunders, and the plot device goes as such: a) MC makes retarded blunder that would throw people into prison for debt b) by fortune, quick wits, and Horo's cunning, he makes it out c) moves to next town d) go back to a this is aggravating, and further is compounded by 2) Horo's cunning tends to be long-winded (never direct, always does these willy-nilly coy BS that overdramaticizes the main character's plight for 5 episodes before being "solved" in some dumb way.) This then underlines 3) Most of the anime series ends up becoming more of a series of flirtation between the two than an actual "wise old sage vs young lad." While it's not too surprising for a Japanese LN (and I say this with an obvious sarcastic, distasteful tone) it really ruins the premise of Horo the character and starts a downspiral of bad. I don't recommend it unless you fall in love with Horo. I'm a staunch believer in that being the one and only reason people actually like the anime. Edit: TL;DR For the series to be good, Horo needed to be like Senjougahara from Bakemonogatari. Instead she ended up being like some random girl from a harem anime of your choice. Good game. Search master-ZNF finding shit buried in a 1777 page thread since 2012 To be fair, when posts get linked as often here as those two posts, they aren't too hard to find. I was just lazy and pressed for time. On January 17 2012 05:03 Requizen wrote:On January 17 2012 04:57 Kaal wrote:It is, in the end, a series about economics Where is Caller? Heh, nice sig I guess I must have missed something, I really only watched most of the first season, does it just get more formulaic from there? I didn't really get tired of Horo being cute or anything, from the sounds of it not finishing it may have been a good thing. Consider this the other way around, would S&W have become anything but formulaic? Given what you've seen of season 1, Eh, I felt like it had potential if they moved past the "wandering salesman is wandering" bit and focused on them going North and fulfilling her wish to go home. I liked the characters, from what I watched of them, they had good chemistry and made it pretty enjoyable to sit through. Plus, the atmosphere was really good, nothing felt really forced about the art/music/settings/etc.
Let me ask you again. After watching the majority of season 1. What do you really expect :3
On January 17 2012 05:57 sopas wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 04:44 Ecael wrote:On January 17 2012 03:16 Zergneedsfood wrote:On January 17 2012 02:40 Requizen wrote:
While I can't speak to the other series, I think Spice and Wolf is very well done, is a lot different from most series out now (not a lot of supernatural economic romances out there), and has very good pacing and characters. It's widespread, as it offers a lot to many different viewers/readers, which means it has a very popular vote.
Is it the best series ever? Nah, but it's good. It is, in the end, a series about economics, which is rather long winded if you're not super interested. I like it, but I can understand mixed feelings on it.
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In other news, I was so happy when everything finally started updating again. Didn't realize how much I missed opening up a scan site and having a bunch of chapters to get. Makes me feel all fuzzy inside. mfw when S&W is about economics. xD It was entertaining at least though. Also, I just watched that Ano Natsu show..... + Show Spoiler +Rooting for blue haired chick! o/ lol S&W is about economics I am too lazy to quote the same post again for the nth time in this thread, someone do it for me please. I had the original 2ch thread in txt form somewhere so at some point I'll go through it, atm it is a far superior S&W, but it isn't about economics either. I suppose you can argue that the main point behind the series is based on a basic macro principle. Other than that though, it is more a series revolving about the curiosity in rapidly introducing new scientific innovations from beyond the era's time in a weird world setting. Sadly, even that involves more economics in 8 chapters of manga than S&W managed for the entire series. On January 17 2012 02:40 sopas wrote:On January 17 2012 02:29 MichaelEU wrote:On January 17 2012 02:16 sopas wrote:On January 17 2012 01:26 Shiragaku wrote:[spoiler]edit: random guy from KawaiiRice's chat: "spice and wolf > monogatari series" oh god... Well...yeah! (inb4 flamewar) yup cant understand teh overrated Your opinion is overrated. The word overrated is overrated. Overrated is your opinion. Overrated is an incredibly devoid word which says more about the user than the used upon. ima hipster but no, dialogue driven anime are good if the dialogue is, well, good.. Bakemonogatari was still fine(ish) though, dont get me wrong. i realized i shouldnt be talking about the monogatari series when ive only seen one of them, misread sry. Your opinion might hold some stock if the original post didn't involve S&W, even Lucky Star would have made for a more reasonable argument. Just because you don't understand a language nor care enough to read translation notes doesn't make the dialogue bad. On January 17 2012 04:34 MichaelEU wrote:
What if I think an anime is good but I don't like it?
Philosophize nothing about that. We call it the Sentenal syndrome, Michael. You have been infected by tsundere. i bet it was real deep for u ;') i don't rly think much of sw, it wasn't originally my argument anyway,just something to make a trollish comment about monogatari.
Frankly a lot of people aren't going to like the style so complaints are natural and expected. Using S&W as an example though is a whole different matter.
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