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On September 14 2014 08:42 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2014 08:23 ElizarTringov wrote:
Because he is a top dog, leader of the revolutionary army, son of Garp, father of luffy, mentor of Sabo. Notice the sheer amount of Baller Status people who follow him: Kuma(previously), Sabo, Emporio Ivankov. Notice the fact the he openly opposes the World Government. Who he was raised by, the people he is surrounded by and who he is fighting against shows that he isn't just some two bit punk, he is the real deal, strong haki and strong fruit but at the very LEAST strong haki. The characters in One Piece do not follow weak people.If a character in One Piece is stronger than the leader than what is stopping that character from taking the leadership position? Nothing, thus by default a leader is one who is strong enough to not be beaten by his subordinates. This point is shown time and again throughout One Piece. Ace couldn't beat White Beard and thus became his subordinate. Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. Nobody in Arlong's crew could beat him and thus they became his subordinates. It doesn't make any sense that someone stronger in the world of pirates would submit themselves to someone weaker. While certain things in One Piece don't make sense the leadership dynamics are very clear.
Spandam. Foxy. That is called the exception to the rule. Your point would be like if I said "Men are stronger than women" and you said "What about Olympic female powerlifters?" Not on does Luffy take on responsibilities that others in his crew don't take, he takes on responsibilities that others in his crew CAN'T take. Some of the opponents that Luffy fought and beat were ones that nobody in his crew could beat at the time. Uh yes? That's the point of an exception to the rule. The exception invalidates that rule. That's the meaning of the phrase. "Men are stronger than women." Some women are stronger than some men. Therefore it is a false statement. However if you wrote "men are generally (or on average) stronger than women" that would be true. Not saying Dragon doesn't have or have haki. That remains to be seen. He probably does, but in order to be strong, he doesn't neccessarily need to have haki, just like whitebeard. Though weather or not whitebeard does have haki can be debated, Oda never wrote that he did. Nor does being a leader in One piece depend on being stronger than your immediate inferiors. It's a trend but was it ever determined that Luffy is in fact stronger than Zoro? Heck, Smoker was said to be stronger than many above his own rank. You have taken a general theme, and turned it into gospel, combining it with that leaders must have haki as well. To which I can respond...Whitebeard. Also lol at "Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates."
No the exception does not invalidate the rule. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exception_that_proves_the_rule
Why would I have to say "generally" when that is obviously what I mean? Why would I even mention power lifters if it isn't what I meant? Your argument is asinine.
Just like whitebeard, you mean whitebeard who hit ace, a logia devil fruit user out of his ship into the sea numerous times? How did he do it if he didn't have haki? Yes weather or not white beard does have haki can be debated and the people who debate that he doesn't have haki are wrong. What happens in the manga proves that they are wrong. Yes you responded Whitebeard and your are wrong, the manga proves it.
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On September 14 2014 08:45 ElizarTringov wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2014 08:35 Sentenal wrote:On September 14 2014 08:23 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 07:19 Yhamm wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 00:30 Mataza wrote:On September 13 2014 13:53 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 13 2014 11:56 Forikorder wrote:On September 13 2014 11:08 Hyperbola wrote:
I actually dislike the whole "colored limbs" thing. It makes every fight seem the same. I liked Haki when it was vague. When you'd kick a logia and they'd go HUHH because they didn't expect your foot to make contact. Nowadays many fights are just two guys beating on each other with black arms and legs. Just to name a few:
1. Luffy vs. Chinjao
2. Luffy vs. Zephyr
3. Luffy vs. World
4. Vergo vs. Smoker
It also doesn't help that people can go full black mode with haki when they're 'advanced'. This basically means that every fight between high level pirates will be two fully black guys slogging it out. Haki right now seems more like a devil fruit rather than a natural form of combat. It's too invasive. It draws too much attention instead of being in the background like it should and always has been up until the time skip. i doubt well ever see another Haki user like Vergo, maybe one or two more but certainly not so common as to have 2 of them fight each other In the case of Dragon, it absolutely makes sense that he has strong haki. or a strong fruit or some other sort of power It makes sense that he has both strong haki and a strong devil fruit. It makes sense to me that he is super saiyan 3, as he has no eyebrows. Just kidding. Seriously though, why do you think that? Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. it's so wrong :/ That's it, that is your argument? Do you know how to make valid points or rebut others? So if Usopp beat Luffy when they fought he would still be following him? No way. If Zoro beat Luffy when they fought he would still be following him? No frikin way. On September 14 2014 07:08 randombum wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 00:30 Mataza wrote:On September 13 2014 13:53 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 13 2014 11:56 Forikorder wrote:On September 13 2014 11:08 Hyperbola wrote:
I actually dislike the whole "colored limbs" thing. It makes every fight seem the same. I liked Haki when it was vague. When you'd kick a logia and they'd go HUHH because they didn't expect your foot to make contact. Nowadays many fights are just two guys beating on each other with black arms and legs. Just to name a few:
1. Luffy vs. Chinjao
2. Luffy vs. Zephyr
3. Luffy vs. World
4. Vergo vs. Smoker
It also doesn't help that people can go full black mode with haki when they're 'advanced'. This basically means that every fight between high level pirates will be two fully black guys slogging it out. Haki right now seems more like a devil fruit rather than a natural form of combat. It's too invasive. It draws too much attention instead of being in the background like it should and always has been up until the time skip. i doubt well ever see another Haki user like Vergo, maybe one or two more but certainly not so common as to have 2 of them fight each other In the case of Dragon, it absolutely makes sense that he has strong haki. or a strong fruit or some other sort of power It makes sense that he has both strong haki and a strong devil fruit. It makes sense to me that he is super saiyan 3, as he has no eyebrows. Just kidding. Seriously though, why do you think that? Because he is a top dog, leader of the revolutionary army, son of Garp, father of luffy, mentor of Sabo. Notice the sheer amount of Baller Status people who follow him: Kuma(previously), Sabo, Emporio Ivankov. Notice the fact the he openly opposes the World Government. Who he was raised by, the people he is surrounded by and who he is fighting against shows that he isn't just some two bit punk, he is the real deal, strong haki and strong fruit but at the very LEAST strong haki. The characters in One Piece do not follow weak people.If a character in One Piece is stronger than the leader than what is stopping that character from taking the leadership position? Nothing, thus by default a leader is one who is strong enough to not be beaten by his subordinates. This point is shown time and again throughout One Piece. Ace couldn't beat White Beard and thus became his subordinate. Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. Nobody in Arlong's crew could beat him and thus they became his subordinates. It doesn't make any sense that someone stronger in the world of pirates would submit themselves to someone weaker. While certain things in One Piece don't make sense the leadership dynamics are very clear. What about buggy.... On September 14 2014 07:34 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 00:30 Mataza wrote:On September 13 2014 13:53 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 13 2014 11:56 Forikorder wrote:On September 13 2014 11:08 Hyperbola wrote:
I actually dislike the whole "colored limbs" thing. It makes every fight seem the same. I liked Haki when it was vague. When you'd kick a logia and they'd go HUHH because they didn't expect your foot to make contact. Nowadays many fights are just two guys beating on each other with black arms and legs. Just to name a few:
1. Luffy vs. Chinjao
2. Luffy vs. Zephyr
3. Luffy vs. World
4. Vergo vs. Smoker
It also doesn't help that people can go full black mode with haki when they're 'advanced'. This basically means that every fight between high level pirates will be two fully black guys slogging it out. Haki right now seems more like a devil fruit rather than a natural form of combat. It's too invasive. It draws too much attention instead of being in the background like it should and always has been up until the time skip. i doubt well ever see another Haki user like Vergo, maybe one or two more but certainly not so common as to have 2 of them fight each other In the case of Dragon, it absolutely makes sense that he has strong haki. or a strong fruit or some other sort of power It makes sense that he has both strong haki and a strong devil fruit. It makes sense to me that he is super saiyan 3, as he has no eyebrows. Just kidding. Seriously though, why do you think that? Because he is a top dog, leader of the revolutionary army, son of Garp, father of luffy, mentor of Sabo. Notice the sheer amount of Baller Status people who follow him: Kuma(previously), Sabo, Emporio Ivankov. Notice the fact the he openly opposes the World Government. Who he was raised by, the people he is surrounded by and who he is fighting against shows that he isn't just some two bit punk, he is the real deal, strong haki and strong fruit but at the very LEAST strong haki. The characters in One Piece do not follow weak people.If a character in One Piece is stronger than the leader than what is stopping that character from taking the leadership position? Nothing, thus by default a leader is one who is strong enough to not be beaten by his subordinates. This point is shown time and again throughout One Piece. Ace couldn't beat White Beard and thus became his subordinate. Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. Nobody in Arlong's crew could beat him and thus they became his subordinates. It doesn't make any sense that someone stronger in the world of pirates would submit themselves to someone weaker. While certain things in One Piece don't make sense the leadership dynamics are very clear. Spandam. Foxy. That is called the exception to the rule. Your point would be like if I said "Men are stronger than women" and you said "What about Olympic female powerlifters?" Not on does Luffy take on responsibilities that others in his crew don't take, he takes on responsibilities that others in his crew CAN'T take. Some of the opponents that Luffy fought and beat were ones that nobody in his crew could beat at the time. They gave you three entirely different examples, and you think you can brush them off with "they are the exception"? What about the Tenryuubito? They have plenty of followers, yet mostly have been pretty week. What about King Nefertari Cobra? What about Iceburg? All are leaders, and none are worth anything in fighting. They gave me 3 examples in a sea of yonkos, shickibukai, pirate captains who are stronger than their crew. What you failed to mention is that they are political leaders more so than leaders of an army or pirates. Luffy, Captains of other crews, the 4 Yonkos, the 3 Admirals, the 7 Shichibukai are leaders of a fighting force(one of them is the exception because he is alone-mihawk, the other is the exception because he got posses an army from sheer luck and he is a comical character so it makes sense-buggy) they aren't political leaders.
So now only certain types of leaders count as leaders?
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On September 14 2014 08:57 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2014 08:45 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 08:35 Sentenal wrote:On September 14 2014 08:23 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 07:19 Yhamm wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 00:30 Mataza wrote:On September 13 2014 13:53 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 13 2014 11:56 Forikorder wrote:On September 13 2014 11:08 Hyperbola wrote:
I actually dislike the whole "colored limbs" thing. It makes every fight seem the same. I liked Haki when it was vague. When you'd kick a logia and they'd go HUHH because they didn't expect your foot to make contact. Nowadays many fights are just two guys beating on each other with black arms and legs. Just to name a few:
1. Luffy vs. Chinjao
2. Luffy vs. Zephyr
3. Luffy vs. World
4. Vergo vs. Smoker
It also doesn't help that people can go full black mode with haki when they're 'advanced'. This basically means that every fight between high level pirates will be two fully black guys slogging it out. Haki right now seems more like a devil fruit rather than a natural form of combat. It's too invasive. It draws too much attention instead of being in the background like it should and always has been up until the time skip. i doubt well ever see another Haki user like Vergo, maybe one or two more but certainly not so common as to have 2 of them fight each other In the case of Dragon, it absolutely makes sense that he has strong haki. or a strong fruit or some other sort of power It makes sense that he has both strong haki and a strong devil fruit. It makes sense to me that he is super saiyan 3, as he has no eyebrows. Just kidding. Seriously though, why do you think that? Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. it's so wrong :/ That's it, that is your argument? Do you know how to make valid points or rebut others? So if Usopp beat Luffy when they fought he would still be following him? No way. If Zoro beat Luffy when they fought he would still be following him? No frikin way. On September 14 2014 07:08 randombum wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 00:30 Mataza wrote:On September 13 2014 13:53 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 13 2014 11:56 Forikorder wrote:On September 13 2014 11:08 Hyperbola wrote:
I actually dislike the whole "colored limbs" thing. It makes every fight seem the same. I liked Haki when it was vague. When you'd kick a logia and they'd go HUHH because they didn't expect your foot to make contact. Nowadays many fights are just two guys beating on each other with black arms and legs. Just to name a few:
1. Luffy vs. Chinjao
2. Luffy vs. Zephyr
3. Luffy vs. World
4. Vergo vs. Smoker
It also doesn't help that people can go full black mode with haki when they're 'advanced'. This basically means that every fight between high level pirates will be two fully black guys slogging it out. Haki right now seems more like a devil fruit rather than a natural form of combat. It's too invasive. It draws too much attention instead of being in the background like it should and always has been up until the time skip. i doubt well ever see another Haki user like Vergo, maybe one or two more but certainly not so common as to have 2 of them fight each other In the case of Dragon, it absolutely makes sense that he has strong haki. or a strong fruit or some other sort of power It makes sense that he has both strong haki and a strong devil fruit. It makes sense to me that he is super saiyan 3, as he has no eyebrows. Just kidding. Seriously though, why do you think that? Because he is a top dog, leader of the revolutionary army, son of Garp, father of luffy, mentor of Sabo. Notice the sheer amount of Baller Status people who follow him: Kuma(previously), Sabo, Emporio Ivankov. Notice the fact the he openly opposes the World Government. Who he was raised by, the people he is surrounded by and who he is fighting against shows that he isn't just some two bit punk, he is the real deal, strong haki and strong fruit but at the very LEAST strong haki. The characters in One Piece do not follow weak people.If a character in One Piece is stronger than the leader than what is stopping that character from taking the leadership position? Nothing, thus by default a leader is one who is strong enough to not be beaten by his subordinates. This point is shown time and again throughout One Piece. Ace couldn't beat White Beard and thus became his subordinate. Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. Nobody in Arlong's crew could beat him and thus they became his subordinates. It doesn't make any sense that someone stronger in the world of pirates would submit themselves to someone weaker. While certain things in One Piece don't make sense the leadership dynamics are very clear. What about buggy.... On September 14 2014 07:34 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 00:30 Mataza wrote:On September 13 2014 13:53 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 13 2014 11:56 Forikorder wrote:On September 13 2014 11:08 Hyperbola wrote:
I actually dislike the whole "colored limbs" thing. It makes every fight seem the same. I liked Haki when it was vague. When you'd kick a logia and they'd go HUHH because they didn't expect your foot to make contact. Nowadays many fights are just two guys beating on each other with black arms and legs. Just to name a few:
1. Luffy vs. Chinjao
2. Luffy vs. Zephyr
3. Luffy vs. World
4. Vergo vs. Smoker
It also doesn't help that people can go full black mode with haki when they're 'advanced'. This basically means that every fight between high level pirates will be two fully black guys slogging it out. Haki right now seems more like a devil fruit rather than a natural form of combat. It's too invasive. It draws too much attention instead of being in the background like it should and always has been up until the time skip. i doubt well ever see another Haki user like Vergo, maybe one or two more but certainly not so common as to have 2 of them fight each other In the case of Dragon, it absolutely makes sense that he has strong haki. or a strong fruit or some other sort of power It makes sense that he has both strong haki and a strong devil fruit. It makes sense to me that he is super saiyan 3, as he has no eyebrows. Just kidding. Seriously though, why do you think that? Because he is a top dog, leader of the revolutionary army, son of Garp, father of luffy, mentor of Sabo. Notice the sheer amount of Baller Status people who follow him: Kuma(previously), Sabo, Emporio Ivankov. Notice the fact the he openly opposes the World Government. Who he was raised by, the people he is surrounded by and who he is fighting against shows that he isn't just some two bit punk, he is the real deal, strong haki and strong fruit but at the very LEAST strong haki. The characters in One Piece do not follow weak people.If a character in One Piece is stronger than the leader than what is stopping that character from taking the leadership position? Nothing, thus by default a leader is one who is strong enough to not be beaten by his subordinates. This point is shown time and again throughout One Piece. Ace couldn't beat White Beard and thus became his subordinate. Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. Nobody in Arlong's crew could beat him and thus they became his subordinates. It doesn't make any sense that someone stronger in the world of pirates would submit themselves to someone weaker. While certain things in One Piece don't make sense the leadership dynamics are very clear. Spandam. Foxy. That is called the exception to the rule. Your point would be like if I said "Men are stronger than women" and you said "What about Olympic female powerlifters?" Not on does Luffy take on responsibilities that others in his crew don't take, he takes on responsibilities that others in his crew CAN'T take. Some of the opponents that Luffy fought and beat were ones that nobody in his crew could beat at the time. They gave you three entirely different examples, and you think you can brush them off with "they are the exception"? What about the Tenryuubito? They have plenty of followers, yet mostly have been pretty week. What about King Nefertari Cobra? What about Iceburg? All are leaders, and none are worth anything in fighting. They gave me 3 examples in a sea of yonkos, shickibukai, pirate captains who are stronger than their crew. What you failed to mention is that they are political leaders more so than leaders of an army or pirates. Luffy, Captains of other crews, the 4 Yonkos, the 3 Admirals, the 7 Shichibukai are leaders of a fighting force(one of them is the exception because he is alone-mihawk, the other is the exception because he got posses an army from sheer luck and he is a comical character so it makes sense-buggy) they aren't political leaders. So now only certain types of leaders count as leaders?
There are leaders of army's and there are political leaders. Where is the proof that Dragon doesn't have haki? How does it make sense in the context of the story? Dragon, son of Garp(who has haki), father of Luffy(who has haki), mentor of Sabo(who has haki) and leader of the Revolutionary Army is somehow a weak little bitch with no haki?
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On September 14 2014 09:02 ElizarTringov wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2014 08:57 Sentenal wrote:On September 14 2014 08:45 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 08:35 Sentenal wrote:On September 14 2014 08:23 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 07:19 Yhamm wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 00:30 Mataza wrote:On September 13 2014 13:53 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 13 2014 11:56 Forikorder wrote:
[quote]
i doubt well ever see another Haki user like Vergo, maybe one or two more but certainly not so common as to have 2 of them fight each other
[quote]
or a strong fruit
or some other sort of power It makes sense that he has both strong haki and a strong devil fruit. It makes sense to me that he is super saiyan 3, as he has no eyebrows. Just kidding. Seriously though, why do you think that? Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. it's so wrong :/ That's it, that is your argument? Do you know how to make valid points or rebut others? So if Usopp beat Luffy when they fought he would still be following him? No way. If Zoro beat Luffy when they fought he would still be following him? No frikin way. On September 14 2014 07:08 randombum wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 00:30 Mataza wrote:On September 13 2014 13:53 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 13 2014 11:56 Forikorder wrote:
[quote]
i doubt well ever see another Haki user like Vergo, maybe one or two more but certainly not so common as to have 2 of them fight each other
[quote]
or a strong fruit
or some other sort of power It makes sense that he has both strong haki and a strong devil fruit. It makes sense to me that he is super saiyan 3, as he has no eyebrows. Just kidding. Seriously though, why do you think that? Because he is a top dog, leader of the revolutionary army, son of Garp, father of luffy, mentor of Sabo. Notice the sheer amount of Baller Status people who follow him: Kuma(previously), Sabo, Emporio Ivankov. Notice the fact the he openly opposes the World Government. Who he was raised by, the people he is surrounded by and who he is fighting against shows that he isn't just some two bit punk, he is the real deal, strong haki and strong fruit but at the very LEAST strong haki. The characters in One Piece do not follow weak people.If a character in One Piece is stronger than the leader than what is stopping that character from taking the leadership position? Nothing, thus by default a leader is one who is strong enough to not be beaten by his subordinates. This point is shown time and again throughout One Piece. Ace couldn't beat White Beard and thus became his subordinate. Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. Nobody in Arlong's crew could beat him and thus they became his subordinates. It doesn't make any sense that someone stronger in the world of pirates would submit themselves to someone weaker. While certain things in One Piece don't make sense the leadership dynamics are very clear. What about buggy.... On September 14 2014 07:34 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 00:30 Mataza wrote:On September 13 2014 13:53 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 13 2014 11:56 Forikorder wrote:
[quote]
i doubt well ever see another Haki user like Vergo, maybe one or two more but certainly not so common as to have 2 of them fight each other
[quote]
or a strong fruit
or some other sort of power It makes sense that he has both strong haki and a strong devil fruit. It makes sense to me that he is super saiyan 3, as he has no eyebrows. Just kidding. Seriously though, why do you think that? Because he is a top dog, leader of the revolutionary army, son of Garp, father of luffy, mentor of Sabo. Notice the sheer amount of Baller Status people who follow him: Kuma(previously), Sabo, Emporio Ivankov. Notice the fact the he openly opposes the World Government. Who he was raised by, the people he is surrounded by and who he is fighting against shows that he isn't just some two bit punk, he is the real deal, strong haki and strong fruit but at the very LEAST strong haki. The characters in One Piece do not follow weak people.If a character in One Piece is stronger than the leader than what is stopping that character from taking the leadership position? Nothing, thus by default a leader is one who is strong enough to not be beaten by his subordinates. This point is shown time and again throughout One Piece. Ace couldn't beat White Beard and thus became his subordinate. Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. Nobody in Arlong's crew could beat him and thus they became his subordinates. It doesn't make any sense that someone stronger in the world of pirates would submit themselves to someone weaker. While certain things in One Piece don't make sense the leadership dynamics are very clear. Spandam. Foxy. That is called the exception to the rule. Your point would be like if I said "Men are stronger than women" and you said "What about Olympic female powerlifters?" Not on does Luffy take on responsibilities that others in his crew don't take, he takes on responsibilities that others in his crew CAN'T take. Some of the opponents that Luffy fought and beat were ones that nobody in his crew could beat at the time. They gave you three entirely different examples, and you think you can brush them off with "they are the exception"? What about the Tenryuubito? They have plenty of followers, yet mostly have been pretty week. What about King Nefertari Cobra? What about Iceburg? All are leaders, and none are worth anything in fighting. They gave me 3 examples in a sea of yonkos, shickibukai, pirate captains who are stronger than their crew. What you failed to mention is that they are political leaders more so than leaders of an army or pirates. Luffy, Captains of other crews, the 4 Yonkos, the 3 Admirals, the 7 Shichibukai are leaders of a fighting force(one of them is the exception because he is alone-mihawk, the other is the exception because he got posses an army from sheer luck and he is a comical character so it makes sense-buggy) they aren't political leaders. So now only certain types of leaders count as leaders? There are leaders of army's and there are political leaders. Where is the proof that Dragon doesn't have haki? How does it make sense in the context of the story? Dragon, son of Garp(who has haki), father of Luffy(who has haki), mentor of Sabo(who has haki) and leader of the Revolutionary Army is somehow a weak little bitch with no haki?
Why would we have to prove that Dragon does not have haki. You are the one affirming, the onus of proof is on you. Also not having haki does not make you a weak little bitch. Dragon having haki is definitely a strong possibility, but it hasn't been confirmed in any way despite your argument that he must have some due to his position.
Even more dubious is your argument that to be a successful leader you have to be powerful in combat. The Gorosei are the most successful leaders in all of One Piece and their ability as combatants is an unknown quantity, and irrelevant to their position. As for your argument that they don't count because they are political, Dragon as well as being head of the army is definitely one of the most political people in One Piece.
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On September 14 2014 09:15 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2014 09:02 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 08:57 Sentenal wrote:On September 14 2014 08:45 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 08:35 Sentenal wrote:On September 14 2014 08:23 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 07:19 Yhamm wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 00:30 Mataza wrote:On September 13 2014 13:53 ElizarTringov wrote:
[quote]
It makes sense that he has both strong haki and a strong devil fruit. It makes sense to me that he is super saiyan 3, as he has no eyebrows. Just kidding. Seriously though, why do you think that? Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. it's so wrong :/ That's it, that is your argument? Do you know how to make valid points or rebut others? So if Usopp beat Luffy when they fought he would still be following him? No way. If Zoro beat Luffy when they fought he would still be following him? No frikin way. On September 14 2014 07:08 randombum wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 00:30 Mataza wrote:On September 13 2014 13:53 ElizarTringov wrote:
[quote]
It makes sense that he has both strong haki and a strong devil fruit. It makes sense to me that he is super saiyan 3, as he has no eyebrows. Just kidding. Seriously though, why do you think that? Because he is a top dog, leader of the revolutionary army, son of Garp, father of luffy, mentor of Sabo. Notice the sheer amount of Baller Status people who follow him: Kuma(previously), Sabo, Emporio Ivankov. Notice the fact the he openly opposes the World Government. Who he was raised by, the people he is surrounded by and who he is fighting against shows that he isn't just some two bit punk, he is the real deal, strong haki and strong fruit but at the very LEAST strong haki. The characters in One Piece do not follow weak people.If a character in One Piece is stronger than the leader than what is stopping that character from taking the leadership position? Nothing, thus by default a leader is one who is strong enough to not be beaten by his subordinates. This point is shown time and again throughout One Piece. Ace couldn't beat White Beard and thus became his subordinate. Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. Nobody in Arlong's crew could beat him and thus they became his subordinates. It doesn't make any sense that someone stronger in the world of pirates would submit themselves to someone weaker. While certain things in One Piece don't make sense the leadership dynamics are very clear. What about buggy.... On September 14 2014 07:34 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 00:30 Mataza wrote:On September 13 2014 13:53 ElizarTringov wrote:
[quote]
It makes sense that he has both strong haki and a strong devil fruit. It makes sense to me that he is super saiyan 3, as he has no eyebrows. Just kidding. Seriously though, why do you think that? Because he is a top dog, leader of the revolutionary army, son of Garp, father of luffy, mentor of Sabo. Notice the sheer amount of Baller Status people who follow him: Kuma(previously), Sabo, Emporio Ivankov. Notice the fact the he openly opposes the World Government. Who he was raised by, the people he is surrounded by and who he is fighting against shows that he isn't just some two bit punk, he is the real deal, strong haki and strong fruit but at the very LEAST strong haki. The characters in One Piece do not follow weak people.If a character in One Piece is stronger than the leader than what is stopping that character from taking the leadership position? Nothing, thus by default a leader is one who is strong enough to not be beaten by his subordinates. This point is shown time and again throughout One Piece. Ace couldn't beat White Beard and thus became his subordinate. Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. Nobody in Arlong's crew could beat him and thus they became his subordinates. It doesn't make any sense that someone stronger in the world of pirates would submit themselves to someone weaker. While certain things in One Piece don't make sense the leadership dynamics are very clear. Spandam. Foxy. That is called the exception to the rule. Your point would be like if I said "Men are stronger than women" and you said "What about Olympic female powerlifters?" Not on does Luffy take on responsibilities that others in his crew don't take, he takes on responsibilities that others in his crew CAN'T take. Some of the opponents that Luffy fought and beat were ones that nobody in his crew could beat at the time. They gave you three entirely different examples, and you think you can brush them off with "they are the exception"? What about the Tenryuubito? They have plenty of followers, yet mostly have been pretty week. What about King Nefertari Cobra? What about Iceburg? All are leaders, and none are worth anything in fighting. They gave me 3 examples in a sea of yonkos, shickibukai, pirate captains who are stronger than their crew. What you failed to mention is that they are political leaders more so than leaders of an army or pirates. Luffy, Captains of other crews, the 4 Yonkos, the 3 Admirals, the 7 Shichibukai are leaders of a fighting force(one of them is the exception because he is alone-mihawk, the other is the exception because he got posses an army from sheer luck and he is a comical character so it makes sense-buggy) they aren't political leaders. So now only certain types of leaders count as leaders? There are leaders of army's and there are political leaders. Where is the proof that Dragon doesn't have haki? How does it make sense in the context of the story? Dragon, son of Garp(who has haki), father of Luffy(who has haki), mentor of Sabo(who has haki) and leader of the Revolutionary Army is somehow a weak little bitch with no haki? Why would we have to prove that Dragon does not have haki.
Because your claim is asinine and does not follow the context of the story. Yes to be a successful leader you do have to be powerful in combat and my claim is right. Once again what makes sense in the context of the story? That all the Yonko, admirals, shichibukai and other commanders of pirate crews are weak people who just happen to be very good leaders and nobody bothered to overthrow them by force? Or does it make sense that they are ridiculously strong and they are good leaders and nobody in their crew/army COULD overthrow them by force?
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You are saying Dragon has Haki. We haven't even seen Dragon do anything. There is no proof one way or another. He *probably* does, but saying its a fact is what is asinine.
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On September 14 2014 09:19 ElizarTringov wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2014 09:15 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On September 14 2014 09:02 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 08:57 Sentenal wrote:On September 14 2014 08:45 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 08:35 Sentenal wrote:On September 14 2014 08:23 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 07:19 Yhamm wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 00:30 Mataza wrote:
[quote]
It makes sense to me that he is super saiyan 3, as he has no eyebrows.
Just kidding.
Seriously though, why do you think that? Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. it's so wrong :/ That's it, that is your argument? Do you know how to make valid points or rebut others? So if Usopp beat Luffy when they fought he would still be following him? No way. If Zoro beat Luffy when they fought he would still be following him? No frikin way. On September 14 2014 07:08 randombum wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 00:30 Mataza wrote:
[quote]
It makes sense to me that he is super saiyan 3, as he has no eyebrows.
Just kidding.
Seriously though, why do you think that? Because he is a top dog, leader of the revolutionary army, son of Garp, father of luffy, mentor of Sabo. Notice the sheer amount of Baller Status people who follow him: Kuma(previously), Sabo, Emporio Ivankov. Notice the fact the he openly opposes the World Government. Who he was raised by, the people he is surrounded by and who he is fighting against shows that he isn't just some two bit punk, he is the real deal, strong haki and strong fruit but at the very LEAST strong haki. The characters in One Piece do not follow weak people.If a character in One Piece is stronger than the leader than what is stopping that character from taking the leadership position? Nothing, thus by default a leader is one who is strong enough to not be beaten by his subordinates. This point is shown time and again throughout One Piece. Ace couldn't beat White Beard and thus became his subordinate. Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. Nobody in Arlong's crew could beat him and thus they became his subordinates. It doesn't make any sense that someone stronger in the world of pirates would submit themselves to someone weaker. While certain things in One Piece don't make sense the leadership dynamics are very clear. What about buggy.... On September 14 2014 07:34 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 00:30 Mataza wrote:
[quote]
It makes sense to me that he is super saiyan 3, as he has no eyebrows.
Just kidding.
Seriously though, why do you think that? Because he is a top dog, leader of the revolutionary army, son of Garp, father of luffy, mentor of Sabo. Notice the sheer amount of Baller Status people who follow him: Kuma(previously), Sabo, Emporio Ivankov. Notice the fact the he openly opposes the World Government. Who he was raised by, the people he is surrounded by and who he is fighting against shows that he isn't just some two bit punk, he is the real deal, strong haki and strong fruit but at the very LEAST strong haki. The characters in One Piece do not follow weak people.If a character in One Piece is stronger than the leader than what is stopping that character from taking the leadership position? Nothing, thus by default a leader is one who is strong enough to not be beaten by his subordinates. This point is shown time and again throughout One Piece. Ace couldn't beat White Beard and thus became his subordinate. Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. Nobody in Arlong's crew could beat him and thus they became his subordinates. It doesn't make any sense that someone stronger in the world of pirates would submit themselves to someone weaker. While certain things in One Piece don't make sense the leadership dynamics are very clear. Spandam. Foxy. That is called the exception to the rule. Your point would be like if I said "Men are stronger than women" and you said "What about Olympic female powerlifters?" Not on does Luffy take on responsibilities that others in his crew don't take, he takes on responsibilities that others in his crew CAN'T take. Some of the opponents that Luffy fought and beat were ones that nobody in his crew could beat at the time. They gave you three entirely different examples, and you think you can brush them off with "they are the exception"? What about the Tenryuubito? They have plenty of followers, yet mostly have been pretty week. What about King Nefertari Cobra? What about Iceburg? All are leaders, and none are worth anything in fighting. They gave me 3 examples in a sea of yonkos, shickibukai, pirate captains who are stronger than their crew. What you failed to mention is that they are political leaders more so than leaders of an army or pirates. Luffy, Captains of other crews, the 4 Yonkos, the 3 Admirals, the 7 Shichibukai are leaders of a fighting force(one of them is the exception because he is alone-mihawk, the other is the exception because he got posses an army from sheer luck and he is a comical character so it makes sense-buggy) they aren't political leaders. So now only certain types of leaders count as leaders? There are leaders of army's and there are political leaders. Where is the proof that Dragon doesn't have haki? How does it make sense in the context of the story? Dragon, son of Garp(who has haki), father of Luffy(who has haki), mentor of Sabo(who has haki) and leader of the Revolutionary Army is somehow a weak little bitch with no haki? Why would we have to prove that Dragon does not have haki. Because your claim is asinine and does not follow the context of the story. Yes to be a successful leader you do have to be powerful in combat and my claim is right. Once again what makes sense in the context of the story? That all the Yonko, admirals, shichibukai and other commanders of pirate crews are weak people who just happen to be very good leaders and nobody bothered to overthrow them by force? Or does it make sense that they are ridiculously strong and they are good leaders and nobody in their crew/army COULD overthrow them by force?
Nice to see you've read the rest of my post. The fact that Dragon probably does have Haki does not negate the inanity of asking for proof of something which you assert groundlessly. Additionally proving that anyone at all, especially someone that appears so seldom as Dragon doesn't have haki is impossible, as you very well know, which means that such a comment is just to divert attention away from the flaws of your argument.
Nice also to see you affirming that your claim is right, I would never have anticipated you having such a position.
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On September 14 2014 08:53 ElizarTringov wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2014 08:42 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On September 14 2014 08:23 ElizarTringov wrote:
Because he is a top dog, leader of the revolutionary army, son of Garp, father of luffy, mentor of Sabo. Notice the sheer amount of Baller Status people who follow him: Kuma(previously), Sabo, Emporio Ivankov. Notice the fact the he openly opposes the World Government. Who he was raised by, the people he is surrounded by and who he is fighting against shows that he isn't just some two bit punk, he is the real deal, strong haki and strong fruit but at the very LEAST strong haki. The characters in One Piece do not follow weak people.If a character in One Piece is stronger than the leader than what is stopping that character from taking the leadership position? Nothing, thus by default a leader is one who is strong enough to not be beaten by his subordinates. This point is shown time and again throughout One Piece. Ace couldn't beat White Beard and thus became his subordinate. Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. Nobody in Arlong's crew could beat him and thus they became his subordinates. It doesn't make any sense that someone stronger in the world of pirates would submit themselves to someone weaker. While certain things in One Piece don't make sense the leadership dynamics are very clear.
Spandam. Foxy. That is called the exception to the rule. Your point would be like if I said "Men are stronger than women" and you said "What about Olympic female powerlifters?" Not on does Luffy take on responsibilities that others in his crew don't take, he takes on responsibilities that others in his crew CAN'T take. Some of the opponents that Luffy fought and beat were ones that nobody in his crew could beat at the time. Uh yes? That's the point of an exception to the rule. The exception invalidates that rule. That's the meaning of the phrase. "Men are stronger than women." Some women are stronger than some men. Therefore it is a false statement. However if you wrote "men are generally (or on average) stronger than women" that would be true. Not saying Dragon doesn't have or have haki. That remains to be seen. He probably does, but in order to be strong, he doesn't neccessarily need to have haki, just like whitebeard. Though weather or not whitebeard does have haki can be debated, Oda never wrote that he did. Nor does being a leader in One piece depend on being stronger than your immediate inferiors. It's a trend but was it ever determined that Luffy is in fact stronger than Zoro? Heck, Smoker was said to be stronger than many above his own rank. You have taken a general theme, and turned it into gospel, combining it with that leaders must have haki as well. To which I can respond...Whitebeard. Also lol at "Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates." No the exception does not invalidate the rule. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exception_that_proves_the_ruleWhy would I have to say "generally" when that is obviously what I mean? Why would I even mention power lifters if it isn't what I meant? Your argument is asinine.
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I'm going to be gracious and ignore that you have confused one phrase for another.
Did you even read the wiki article that you linked?
There is a bit to read there; none of it supports you. You are saying you are right, and anything that proves you wrong, makes you anymore right. Okay...
On September 14 2014 09:19 ElizarTringov wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2014 09:15 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On September 14 2014 09:02 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 08:57 Sentenal wrote:On September 14 2014 08:45 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 08:35 Sentenal wrote:On September 14 2014 08:23 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 07:19 Yhamm wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 00:30 Mataza wrote:
[quote]
It makes sense to me that he is super saiyan 3, as he has no eyebrows.
Just kidding.
Seriously though, why do you think that? Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. it's so wrong :/ That's it, that is your argument? Do you know how to make valid points or rebut others? So if Usopp beat Luffy when they fought he would still be following him? No way. If Zoro beat Luffy when they fought he would still be following him? No frikin way. On September 14 2014 07:08 randombum wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 00:30 Mataza wrote:
[quote]
It makes sense to me that he is super saiyan 3, as he has no eyebrows.
Just kidding.
Seriously though, why do you think that? Because he is a top dog, leader of the revolutionary army, son of Garp, father of luffy, mentor of Sabo. Notice the sheer amount of Baller Status people who follow him: Kuma(previously), Sabo, Emporio Ivankov. Notice the fact the he openly opposes the World Government. Who he was raised by, the people he is surrounded by and who he is fighting against shows that he isn't just some two bit punk, he is the real deal, strong haki and strong fruit but at the very LEAST strong haki. The characters in One Piece do not follow weak people.If a character in One Piece is stronger than the leader than what is stopping that character from taking the leadership position? Nothing, thus by default a leader is one who is strong enough to not be beaten by his subordinates. This point is shown time and again throughout One Piece. Ace couldn't beat White Beard and thus became his subordinate. Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. Nobody in Arlong's crew could beat him and thus they became his subordinates. It doesn't make any sense that someone stronger in the world of pirates would submit themselves to someone weaker. While certain things in One Piece don't make sense the leadership dynamics are very clear. What about buggy.... On September 14 2014 07:34 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 00:30 Mataza wrote:
[quote]
It makes sense to me that he is super saiyan 3, as he has no eyebrows.
Just kidding.
Seriously though, why do you think that? Because he is a top dog, leader of the revolutionary army, son of Garp, father of luffy, mentor of Sabo. Notice the sheer amount of Baller Status people who follow him: Kuma(previously), Sabo, Emporio Ivankov. Notice the fact the he openly opposes the World Government. Who he was raised by, the people he is surrounded by and who he is fighting against shows that he isn't just some two bit punk, he is the real deal, strong haki and strong fruit but at the very LEAST strong haki. The characters in One Piece do not follow weak people.If a character in One Piece is stronger than the leader than what is stopping that character from taking the leadership position? Nothing, thus by default a leader is one who is strong enough to not be beaten by his subordinates. This point is shown time and again throughout One Piece. Ace couldn't beat White Beard and thus became his subordinate. Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. Nobody in Arlong's crew could beat him and thus they became his subordinates. It doesn't make any sense that someone stronger in the world of pirates would submit themselves to someone weaker. While certain things in One Piece don't make sense the leadership dynamics are very clear. Spandam. Foxy. That is called the exception to the rule. Your point would be like if I said "Men are stronger than women" and you said "What about Olympic female powerlifters?" Not on does Luffy take on responsibilities that others in his crew don't take, he takes on responsibilities that others in his crew CAN'T take. Some of the opponents that Luffy fought and beat were ones that nobody in his crew could beat at the time. They gave you three entirely different examples, and you think you can brush them off with "they are the exception"? What about the Tenryuubito? They have plenty of followers, yet mostly have been pretty week. What about King Nefertari Cobra? What about Iceburg? All are leaders, and none are worth anything in fighting. They gave me 3 examples in a sea of yonkos, shickibukai, pirate captains who are stronger than their crew. What you failed to mention is that they are political leaders more so than leaders of an army or pirates. Luffy, Captains of other crews, the 4 Yonkos, the 3 Admirals, the 7 Shichibukai are leaders of a fighting force(one of them is the exception because he is alone-mihawk, the other is the exception because he got posses an army from sheer luck and he is a comical character so it makes sense-buggy) they aren't political leaders. So now only certain types of leaders count as leaders? There are leaders of army's and there are political leaders. Where is the proof that Dragon doesn't have haki? How does it make sense in the context of the story? Dragon, son of Garp(who has haki), father of Luffy(who has haki), mentor of Sabo(who has haki) and leader of the Revolutionary Army is somehow a weak little bitch with no haki? Why would we have to prove that Dragon does not have haki. Because your claim is asinine and does not follow the context of the story. On September 14 2014 08:53 ElizarTringov wrote:Your argument is asinine.
On September 14 2014 09:02 ElizarTringov wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2014 08:57 Sentenal wrote:On September 14 2014 08:45 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 08:35 Sentenal wrote:On September 14 2014 08:23 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 07:19 Yhamm wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 00:30 Mataza wrote:On September 13 2014 13:53 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 13 2014 11:56 Forikorder wrote:
[quote]
i doubt well ever see another Haki user like Vergo, maybe one or two more but certainly not so common as to have 2 of them fight each other
[quote]
or a strong fruit
or some other sort of power It makes sense that he has both strong haki and a strong devil fruit. It makes sense to me that he is super saiyan 3, as he has no eyebrows. Just kidding. Seriously though, why do you think that? Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. it's so wrong :/ That's it, that is your argument? Do you know how to make valid points or rebut others? So if Usopp beat Luffy when they fought he would still be following him? No way. If Zoro beat Luffy when they fought he would still be following him? No frikin way. On September 14 2014 07:08 randombum wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 00:30 Mataza wrote:On September 13 2014 13:53 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 13 2014 11:56 Forikorder wrote:
[quote]
i doubt well ever see another Haki user like Vergo, maybe one or two more but certainly not so common as to have 2 of them fight each other
[quote]
or a strong fruit
or some other sort of power It makes sense that he has both strong haki and a strong devil fruit. It makes sense to me that he is super saiyan 3, as he has no eyebrows. Just kidding. Seriously though, why do you think that? Because he is a top dog, leader of the revolutionary army, son of Garp, father of luffy, mentor of Sabo. Notice the sheer amount of Baller Status people who follow him: Kuma(previously), Sabo, Emporio Ivankov. Notice the fact the he openly opposes the World Government. Who he was raised by, the people he is surrounded by and who he is fighting against shows that he isn't just some two bit punk, he is the real deal, strong haki and strong fruit but at the very LEAST strong haki. The characters in One Piece do not follow weak people.If a character in One Piece is stronger than the leader than what is stopping that character from taking the leadership position? Nothing, thus by default a leader is one who is strong enough to not be beaten by his subordinates. This point is shown time and again throughout One Piece. Ace couldn't beat White Beard and thus became his subordinate. Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. Nobody in Arlong's crew could beat him and thus they became his subordinates. It doesn't make any sense that someone stronger in the world of pirates would submit themselves to someone weaker. While certain things in One Piece don't make sense the leadership dynamics are very clear. What about buggy.... On September 14 2014 07:34 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 00:30 Mataza wrote:On September 13 2014 13:53 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 13 2014 11:56 Forikorder wrote:
[quote]
i doubt well ever see another Haki user like Vergo, maybe one or two more but certainly not so common as to have 2 of them fight each other
[quote]
or a strong fruit
or some other sort of power It makes sense that he has both strong haki and a strong devil fruit. It makes sense to me that he is super saiyan 3, as he has no eyebrows. Just kidding. Seriously though, why do you think that? Because he is a top dog, leader of the revolutionary army, son of Garp, father of luffy, mentor of Sabo. Notice the sheer amount of Baller Status people who follow him: Kuma(previously), Sabo, Emporio Ivankov. Notice the fact the he openly opposes the World Government. Who he was raised by, the people he is surrounded by and who he is fighting against shows that he isn't just some two bit punk, he is the real deal, strong haki and strong fruit but at the very LEAST strong haki. The characters in One Piece do not follow weak people.If a character in One Piece is stronger than the leader than what is stopping that character from taking the leadership position? Nothing, thus by default a leader is one who is strong enough to not be beaten by his subordinates. This point is shown time and again throughout One Piece. Ace couldn't beat White Beard and thus became his subordinate. Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. Nobody in Arlong's crew could beat him and thus they became his subordinates. It doesn't make any sense that someone stronger in the world of pirates would submit themselves to someone weaker. While certain things in One Piece don't make sense the leadership dynamics are very clear. Spandam. Foxy. That is called the exception to the rule. Your point would be like if I said "Men are stronger than women" and you said "What about Olympic female powerlifters?" Not on does Luffy take on responsibilities that others in his crew don't take, he takes on responsibilities that others in his crew CAN'T take. Some of the opponents that Luffy fought and beat were ones that nobody in his crew could beat at the time. They gave you three entirely different examples, and you think you can brush them off with "they are the exception"? What about the Tenryuubito? They have plenty of followers, yet mostly have been pretty week. What about King Nefertari Cobra? What about Iceburg? All are leaders, and none are worth anything in fighting. They gave me 3 examples in a sea of yonkos, shickibukai, pirate captains who are stronger than their crew. What you failed to mention is that they are political leaders more so than leaders of an army or pirates. Luffy, Captains of other crews, the 4 Yonkos, the 3 Admirals, the 7 Shichibukai are leaders of a fighting force(one of them is the exception because he is alone-mihawk, the other is the exception because he got posses an army from sheer luck and he is a comical character so it makes sense-buggy) they aren't political leaders. So now only certain types of leaders count as leaders? Where is the proof that Dragon doesn't have haki?
I honestly can't tell if you are "asinine" or trolling at this point. Please confirm one of these.
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Garp said some comments during the war when Luffy used his Conquerors haki that are suggestive (he said something like "as I thought he was born with it" implying that his father has it so its natural for the son to as well) but that is literally the only evidence. Same with his fruit, its just wild speculation based on what happened way back when he stopped smoker.
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On September 14 2014 10:40 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2014 08:53 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 08:42 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On September 14 2014 08:23 ElizarTringov wrote:
Because he is a top dog, leader of the revolutionary army, son of Garp, father of luffy, mentor of Sabo. Notice the sheer amount of Baller Status people who follow him: Kuma(previously), Sabo, Emporio Ivankov. Notice the fact the he openly opposes the World Government. Who he was raised by, the people he is surrounded by and who he is fighting against shows that he isn't just some two bit punk, he is the real deal, strong haki and strong fruit but at the very LEAST strong haki. The characters in One Piece do not follow weak people.If a character in One Piece is stronger than the leader than what is stopping that character from taking the leadership position? Nothing, thus by default a leader is one who is strong enough to not be beaten by his subordinates. This point is shown time and again throughout One Piece. Ace couldn't beat White Beard and thus became his subordinate. Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. Nobody in Arlong's crew could beat him and thus they became his subordinates. It doesn't make any sense that someone stronger in the world of pirates would submit themselves to someone weaker. While certain things in One Piece don't make sense the leadership dynamics are very clear.
Spandam. Foxy. That is called the exception to the rule. Your point would be like if I said "Men are stronger than women" and you said "What about Olympic female powerlifters?" Not on does Luffy take on responsibilities that others in his crew don't take, he takes on responsibilities that others in his crew CAN'T take. Some of the opponents that Luffy fought and beat were ones that nobody in his crew could beat at the time. Uh yes? That's the point of an exception to the rule. The exception invalidates that rule. That's the meaning of the phrase. "Men are stronger than women." Some women are stronger than some men. Therefore it is a false statement. However if you wrote "men are generally (or on average) stronger than women" that would be true. Not saying Dragon doesn't have or have haki. That remains to be seen. He probably does, but in order to be strong, he doesn't neccessarily need to have haki, just like whitebeard. Though weather or not whitebeard does have haki can be debated, Oda never wrote that he did. Nor does being a leader in One piece depend on being stronger than your immediate inferiors. It's a trend but was it ever determined that Luffy is in fact stronger than Zoro? Heck, Smoker was said to be stronger than many above his own rank. You have taken a general theme, and turned it into gospel, combining it with that leaders must have haki as well. To which I can respond...Whitebeard. Also lol at "Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates." No the exception does not invalidate the rule. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exception_that_proves_the_ruleWhy would I have to say "generally" when that is obviously what I mean? Why would I even mention power lifters if it isn't what I meant? Your argument is asinine. ... I'm going to be gracious and ignore that you have confused one phrase for another. Did you even read the wiki article that you linked? There is a bit to read there; none of it supports you. You are saying you are right, and anything that proves you wrong, makes you anymore right. Okay... Show nested quote +On September 14 2014 09:19 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 09:15 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On September 14 2014 09:02 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 08:57 Sentenal wrote:On September 14 2014 08:45 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 08:35 Sentenal wrote:On September 14 2014 08:23 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 07:19 Yhamm wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:
[quote]
Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. it's so wrong :/ That's it, that is your argument? Do you know how to make valid points or rebut others? So if Usopp beat Luffy when they fought he would still be following him? No way. If Zoro beat Luffy when they fought he would still be following him? No frikin way. On September 14 2014 07:08 randombum wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:
[quote]
Because he is a top dog, leader of the revolutionary army, son of Garp, father of luffy, mentor of Sabo. Notice the sheer amount of Baller Status people who follow him: Kuma(previously), Sabo, Emporio Ivankov. Notice the fact the he openly opposes the World Government. Who he was raised by, the people he is surrounded by and who he is fighting against shows that he isn't just some two bit punk, he is the real deal, strong haki and strong fruit but at the very LEAST strong haki. The characters in One Piece do not follow weak people.If a character in One Piece is stronger than the leader than what is stopping that character from taking the leadership position? Nothing, thus by default a leader is one who is strong enough to not be beaten by his subordinates. This point is shown time and again throughout One Piece. Ace couldn't beat White Beard and thus became his subordinate. Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. Nobody in Arlong's crew could beat him and thus they became his subordinates. It doesn't make any sense that someone stronger in the world of pirates would submit themselves to someone weaker. While certain things in One Piece don't make sense the leadership dynamics are very clear. What about buggy.... On September 14 2014 07:34 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:
[quote]
Because he is a top dog, leader of the revolutionary army, son of Garp, father of luffy, mentor of Sabo. Notice the sheer amount of Baller Status people who follow him: Kuma(previously), Sabo, Emporio Ivankov. Notice the fact the he openly opposes the World Government. Who he was raised by, the people he is surrounded by and who he is fighting against shows that he isn't just some two bit punk, he is the real deal, strong haki and strong fruit but at the very LEAST strong haki. The characters in One Piece do not follow weak people.If a character in One Piece is stronger than the leader than what is stopping that character from taking the leadership position? Nothing, thus by default a leader is one who is strong enough to not be beaten by his subordinates. This point is shown time and again throughout One Piece. Ace couldn't beat White Beard and thus became his subordinate. Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. Nobody in Arlong's crew could beat him and thus they became his subordinates. It doesn't make any sense that someone stronger in the world of pirates would submit themselves to someone weaker. While certain things in One Piece don't make sense the leadership dynamics are very clear. Spandam. Foxy. That is called the exception to the rule. Your point would be like if I said "Men are stronger than women" and you said "What about Olympic female powerlifters?" Not on does Luffy take on responsibilities that others in his crew don't take, he takes on responsibilities that others in his crew CAN'T take. Some of the opponents that Luffy fought and beat were ones that nobody in his crew could beat at the time. They gave you three entirely different examples, and you think you can brush them off with "they are the exception"? What about the Tenryuubito? They have plenty of followers, yet mostly have been pretty week. What about King Nefertari Cobra? What about Iceburg? All are leaders, and none are worth anything in fighting. They gave me 3 examples in a sea of yonkos, shickibukai, pirate captains who are stronger than their crew. What you failed to mention is that they are political leaders more so than leaders of an army or pirates. Luffy, Captains of other crews, the 4 Yonkos, the 3 Admirals, the 7 Shichibukai are leaders of a fighting force(one of them is the exception because he is alone-mihawk, the other is the exception because he got posses an army from sheer luck and he is a comical character so it makes sense-buggy) they aren't political leaders. So now only certain types of leaders count as leaders? There are leaders of army's and there are political leaders. Where is the proof that Dragon doesn't have haki? How does it make sense in the context of the story? Dragon, son of Garp(who has haki), father of Luffy(who has haki), mentor of Sabo(who has haki) and leader of the Revolutionary Army is somehow a weak little bitch with no haki? Why would we have to prove that Dragon does not have haki. Because your claim is asinine and does not follow the context of the story. Show nested quote +On September 14 2014 09:02 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 08:57 Sentenal wrote:On September 14 2014 08:45 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 08:35 Sentenal wrote:On September 14 2014 08:23 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 07:19 Yhamm wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 00:30 Mataza wrote:On September 13 2014 13:53 ElizarTringov wrote:
[quote]
It makes sense that he has both strong haki and a strong devil fruit. It makes sense to me that he is super saiyan 3, as he has no eyebrows. Just kidding. Seriously though, why do you think that? Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. it's so wrong :/ That's it, that is your argument? Do you know how to make valid points or rebut others? So if Usopp beat Luffy when they fought he would still be following him? No way. If Zoro beat Luffy when they fought he would still be following him? No frikin way. On September 14 2014 07:08 randombum wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 00:30 Mataza wrote:On September 13 2014 13:53 ElizarTringov wrote:
[quote]
It makes sense that he has both strong haki and a strong devil fruit. It makes sense to me that he is super saiyan 3, as he has no eyebrows. Just kidding. Seriously though, why do you think that? Because he is a top dog, leader of the revolutionary army, son of Garp, father of luffy, mentor of Sabo. Notice the sheer amount of Baller Status people who follow him: Kuma(previously), Sabo, Emporio Ivankov. Notice the fact the he openly opposes the World Government. Who he was raised by, the people he is surrounded by and who he is fighting against shows that he isn't just some two bit punk, he is the real deal, strong haki and strong fruit but at the very LEAST strong haki. The characters in One Piece do not follow weak people.If a character in One Piece is stronger than the leader than what is stopping that character from taking the leadership position? Nothing, thus by default a leader is one who is strong enough to not be beaten by his subordinates. This point is shown time and again throughout One Piece. Ace couldn't beat White Beard and thus became his subordinate. Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. Nobody in Arlong's crew could beat him and thus they became his subordinates. It doesn't make any sense that someone stronger in the world of pirates would submit themselves to someone weaker. While certain things in One Piece don't make sense the leadership dynamics are very clear. What about buggy.... On September 14 2014 07:34 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 00:30 Mataza wrote:On September 13 2014 13:53 ElizarTringov wrote:
[quote]
It makes sense that he has both strong haki and a strong devil fruit. It makes sense to me that he is super saiyan 3, as he has no eyebrows. Just kidding. Seriously though, why do you think that? Because he is a top dog, leader of the revolutionary army, son of Garp, father of luffy, mentor of Sabo. Notice the sheer amount of Baller Status people who follow him: Kuma(previously), Sabo, Emporio Ivankov. Notice the fact the he openly opposes the World Government. Who he was raised by, the people he is surrounded by and who he is fighting against shows that he isn't just some two bit punk, he is the real deal, strong haki and strong fruit but at the very LEAST strong haki. The characters in One Piece do not follow weak people.If a character in One Piece is stronger than the leader than what is stopping that character from taking the leadership position? Nothing, thus by default a leader is one who is strong enough to not be beaten by his subordinates. This point is shown time and again throughout One Piece. Ace couldn't beat White Beard and thus became his subordinate. Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. Nobody in Arlong's crew could beat him and thus they became his subordinates. It doesn't make any sense that someone stronger in the world of pirates would submit themselves to someone weaker. While certain things in One Piece don't make sense the leadership dynamics are very clear. Spandam. Foxy. That is called the exception to the rule. Your point would be like if I said "Men are stronger than women" and you said "What about Olympic female powerlifters?" Not on does Luffy take on responsibilities that others in his crew don't take, he takes on responsibilities that others in his crew CAN'T take. Some of the opponents that Luffy fought and beat were ones that nobody in his crew could beat at the time. They gave you three entirely different examples, and you think you can brush them off with "they are the exception"? What about the Tenryuubito? They have plenty of followers, yet mostly have been pretty week. What about King Nefertari Cobra? What about Iceburg? All are leaders, and none are worth anything in fighting. They gave me 3 examples in a sea of yonkos, shickibukai, pirate captains who are stronger than their crew. What you failed to mention is that they are political leaders more so than leaders of an army or pirates. Luffy, Captains of other crews, the 4 Yonkos, the 3 Admirals, the 7 Shichibukai are leaders of a fighting force(one of them is the exception because he is alone-mihawk, the other is the exception because he got posses an army from sheer luck and he is a comical character so it makes sense-buggy) they aren't political leaders. So now only certain types of leaders count as leaders? Where is the proof that Dragon doesn't have haki? I honestly can't tell if you are "asinine" or trolling at this point. Please confirm one of these.
In order for there to be an exception there has to be a rule. That is why it is called an exception TO the rule. An exception to the rule is simply something which goes against the rule. For instance, there is a rule in English: I before E except after C, or when used as an A, as in neighbor or weigh. Which part of that didn't you understand?
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On September 14 2014 09:40 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2014 09:19 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 09:15 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On September 14 2014 09:02 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 08:57 Sentenal wrote:On September 14 2014 08:45 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 08:35 Sentenal wrote:On September 14 2014 08:23 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 07:19 Yhamm wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:
[quote]
Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. it's so wrong :/ That's it, that is your argument? Do you know how to make valid points or rebut others? So if Usopp beat Luffy when they fought he would still be following him? No way. If Zoro beat Luffy when they fought he would still be following him? No frikin way. On September 14 2014 07:08 randombum wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:
[quote]
Because he is a top dog, leader of the revolutionary army, son of Garp, father of luffy, mentor of Sabo. Notice the sheer amount of Baller Status people who follow him: Kuma(previously), Sabo, Emporio Ivankov. Notice the fact the he openly opposes the World Government. Who he was raised by, the people he is surrounded by and who he is fighting against shows that he isn't just some two bit punk, he is the real deal, strong haki and strong fruit but at the very LEAST strong haki. The characters in One Piece do not follow weak people.If a character in One Piece is stronger than the leader than what is stopping that character from taking the leadership position? Nothing, thus by default a leader is one who is strong enough to not be beaten by his subordinates. This point is shown time and again throughout One Piece. Ace couldn't beat White Beard and thus became his subordinate. Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. Nobody in Arlong's crew could beat him and thus they became his subordinates. It doesn't make any sense that someone stronger in the world of pirates would submit themselves to someone weaker. While certain things in One Piece don't make sense the leadership dynamics are very clear. What about buggy.... On September 14 2014 07:34 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On September 14 2014 06:04 ElizarTringov wrote:
[quote]
Because he is a top dog, leader of the revolutionary army, son of Garp, father of luffy, mentor of Sabo. Notice the sheer amount of Baller Status people who follow him: Kuma(previously), Sabo, Emporio Ivankov. Notice the fact the he openly opposes the World Government. Who he was raised by, the people he is surrounded by and who he is fighting against shows that he isn't just some two bit punk, he is the real deal, strong haki and strong fruit but at the very LEAST strong haki. The characters in One Piece do not follow weak people.If a character in One Piece is stronger than the leader than what is stopping that character from taking the leadership position? Nothing, thus by default a leader is one who is strong enough to not be beaten by his subordinates. This point is shown time and again throughout One Piece. Ace couldn't beat White Beard and thus became his subordinate. Nobody in Luffy's crew can beat Luffy and thus they are his subordinates. Nobody in Arlong's crew could beat him and thus they became his subordinates. It doesn't make any sense that someone stronger in the world of pirates would submit themselves to someone weaker. While certain things in One Piece don't make sense the leadership dynamics are very clear. Spandam. Foxy. That is called the exception to the rule. Your point would be like if I said "Men are stronger than women" and you said "What about Olympic female powerlifters?" Not on does Luffy take on responsibilities that others in his crew don't take, he takes on responsibilities that others in his crew CAN'T take. Some of the opponents that Luffy fought and beat were ones that nobody in his crew could beat at the time. They gave you three entirely different examples, and you think you can brush them off with "they are the exception"? What about the Tenryuubito? They have plenty of followers, yet mostly have been pretty week. What about King Nefertari Cobra? What about Iceburg? All are leaders, and none are worth anything in fighting. They gave me 3 examples in a sea of yonkos, shickibukai, pirate captains who are stronger than their crew. What you failed to mention is that they are political leaders more so than leaders of an army or pirates. Luffy, Captains of other crews, the 4 Yonkos, the 3 Admirals, the 7 Shichibukai are leaders of a fighting force(one of them is the exception because he is alone-mihawk, the other is the exception because he got posses an army from sheer luck and he is a comical character so it makes sense-buggy) they aren't political leaders. So now only certain types of leaders count as leaders? There are leaders of army's and there are political leaders. Where is the proof that Dragon doesn't have haki? How does it make sense in the context of the story? Dragon, son of Garp(who has haki), father of Luffy(who has haki), mentor of Sabo(who has haki) and leader of the Revolutionary Army is somehow a weak little bitch with no haki? Why would we have to prove that Dragon does not have haki. Because your claim is asinine and does not follow the context of the story. Yes to be a successful leader you do have to be powerful in combat and my claim is right. Once again what makes sense in the context of the story? That all the Yonko, admirals, shichibukai and other commanders of pirate crews are weak people who just happen to be very good leaders and nobody bothered to overthrow them by force? Or does it make sense that they are ridiculously strong and they are good leaders and nobody in their crew/army COULD overthrow them by force? Nice to see you've read the rest of my post. The fact that Dragon probably does have Haki does not negate the inanity of asking for proof of something which you assert groundlessly. Additionally proving that anyone at all, especially someone that appears so seldom as Dragon doesn't have haki is impossible, as you very well know, which means that such a comment is just to divert attention away from the flaws of your argument. Nice also to see you affirming that your claim is right, I would never have anticipated you having such a position.
In what way is what I asserted groundless?
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No no no no no. You just don't get it. Go read the wiki article again. You know... the one that you linked? Or is that yet another exception to the rule for you?
Are you going to keep your truly asinine argument that any exceptions to your argument just makes you more right? Because seriously, I don't know how to respond to that, but to shove that into your face till you admit that isn't the right way to construct an argument.
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On September 14 2014 10:57 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
No no no no no. You just don't get it. Go read the wiki article again. You know... the one that you linked? Or is that yet another exception to the rule for you?
Are you going to keep your truly asinine argument that any exceptions to your argument just makes you more right? Because seriously, I don't know how to respond to that, but to shove that into your face till you admit that isn't the right way to construct an argument.
Yes I read it, especially this part "The exception [that] proves the rule" means that the presence of an exception applying to a specific case establishes ("proves") that a general rule exists." Did you read that part?
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On September 14 2014 10:56 ElizarTringov wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2014 09:40 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On September 14 2014 09:19 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 09:15 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On September 14 2014 09:02 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 08:57 Sentenal wrote:On September 14 2014 08:45 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 08:35 Sentenal wrote:On September 14 2014 08:23 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 07:19 Yhamm wrote:
[quote]
it's so wrong :/
That's it, that is your argument? Do you know how to make valid points or rebut others? So if Usopp beat Luffy when they fought he would still be following him? No way. If Zoro beat Luffy when they fought he would still be following him? No frikin way. On September 14 2014 07:08 randombum wrote:
[quote]
What about buggy.... On September 14 2014 07:34 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
[quote]Spandam. Foxy.
That is called the exception to the rule. Your point would be like if I said "Men are stronger than women" and you said "What about Olympic female powerlifters?" Not on does Luffy take on responsibilities that others in his crew don't take, he takes on responsibilities that others in his crew CAN'T take. Some of the opponents that Luffy fought and beat were ones that nobody in his crew could beat at the time. They gave you three entirely different examples, and you think you can brush them off with "they are the exception"? What about the Tenryuubito? They have plenty of followers, yet mostly have been pretty week. What about King Nefertari Cobra? What about Iceburg? All are leaders, and none are worth anything in fighting. They gave me 3 examples in a sea of yonkos, shickibukai, pirate captains who are stronger than their crew. What you failed to mention is that they are political leaders more so than leaders of an army or pirates. Luffy, Captains of other crews, the 4 Yonkos, the 3 Admirals, the 7 Shichibukai are leaders of a fighting force(one of them is the exception because he is alone-mihawk, the other is the exception because he got posses an army from sheer luck and he is a comical character so it makes sense-buggy) they aren't political leaders. So now only certain types of leaders count as leaders? There are leaders of army's and there are political leaders. Where is the proof that Dragon doesn't have haki? How does it make sense in the context of the story? Dragon, son of Garp(who has haki), father of Luffy(who has haki), mentor of Sabo(who has haki) and leader of the Revolutionary Army is somehow a weak little bitch with no haki? Why would we have to prove that Dragon does not have haki. Because your claim is asinine and does not follow the context of the story. Yes to be a successful leader you do have to be powerful in combat and my claim is right. Once again what makes sense in the context of the story? That all the Yonko, admirals, shichibukai and other commanders of pirate crews are weak people who just happen to be very good leaders and nobody bothered to overthrow them by force? Or does it make sense that they are ridiculously strong and they are good leaders and nobody in their crew/army COULD overthrow them by force? Nice to see you've read the rest of my post. The fact that Dragon probably does have Haki does not negate the inanity of asking for proof of something which you assert groundlessly. Additionally proving that anyone at all, especially someone that appears so seldom as Dragon doesn't have haki is impossible, as you very well know, which means that such a comment is just to divert attention away from the flaws of your argument. Nice also to see you affirming that your claim is right, I would never have anticipated you having such a position. In what way is what I asserted groundless?
You've stated that Dragon must have haki. People have said: we don't know that for sure. Prove it. You can't prove it. You gave a very long winded explanation about how every leader (except for these half a dozen or so exceptions, since other people have been disobliging enough to point them out) is strong, so Dragon must be strong, and every one who is strong has haki so Dragon must have haki.
All these things do not constitute proof that Dragon has haki. They might suggest it. They might point towards Dragon having haki being probable. But none of these demonstrate conclusively that he must have haki. He might be one of the exceptions for all we know. Or he might be a leader that does not fit your model of leadership in One Piece.
Thus I declare that your claim that Dragon must absolutely have haki is groundless, for you have in no way demonstrated that he does, only that he could have. The fact that you did so in a very antagonistic and vehement tone harms your case for that matter.
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On September 14 2014 11:00 ElizarTringov wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2014 10:57 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
No no no no no. You just don't get it. Go read the wiki article again. You know... the one that you linked? Or is that yet another exception to the rule for you?
Are you going to keep your truly asinine argument that any exceptions to your argument just makes you more right? Because seriously, I don't know how to respond to that, but to shove that into your face till you admit that isn't the right way to construct an argument. Yes I read it, especially this part "The exception [that] proves the rule" means that the presence of an exception applying to a specific case establishes ("proves") that a general rule exists." Did you read that part?
I think he means:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exception_that_proves_the_rule#Serious_nonsense
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Damn the anime has been really great recently. They changed Bellamy's scene where he was about to try and kill Luffy only to be stopped by Dellinger in the manga to him not being able to even attempt to kill Luffy and being confronted by Dellinger. It makes him seem more sympathetic and makes slightly more sense for Dellinger to kill a screw up.
DD vs Law fight was extended which is great filler material. Franky's speech to Luffy was well done and DD's punishment to Law was brutal.
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that dragon won't have Haki that surpasses Vergos? I mean Sabo is comfortable enough to muck around with an admiral so the big man above him should surely be comfortable too right? If you look at who has been introduced as members of the rev. army surely dragon has gotta be some complete monster of a guy to keep them in check/make them follow him? Given what was said about luffys' little conq. haki outburst during the war surely it's almost certain that Dragon along with Garp has it too right?
If dragon was just an above average dude then surely the WG would have been able to get rid of him easy enough? Plus Sabo seemed to use Haki has the main object of his attacks before consuming the mera and wasn't he taught by Dragon?
im saying its unlikely to meet someone whos only special point is that he has mastered Haki
even Sanji has his fire super sayon mode
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On September 14 2014 11:14 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2014 10:56 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 09:40 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On September 14 2014 09:19 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 09:15 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On September 14 2014 09:02 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 08:57 Sentenal wrote:On September 14 2014 08:45 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 08:35 Sentenal wrote:On September 14 2014 08:23 ElizarTringov wrote:
[quote]
That's it, that is your argument? Do you know how to make valid points or rebut others? So if Usopp beat Luffy when they fought he would still be following him? No way. If Zoro beat Luffy when they fought he would still be following him? No frikin way.
[quote]
[quote]
That is called the exception to the rule. Your point would be like if I said "Men are stronger than women" and you said "What about Olympic female powerlifters?"
Not on does Luffy take on responsibilities that others in his crew don't take, he takes on responsibilities that others in his crew CAN'T take. Some of the opponents that Luffy fought and beat were ones that nobody in his crew could beat at the time. They gave you three entirely different examples, and you think you can brush them off with "they are the exception"? What about the Tenryuubito? They have plenty of followers, yet mostly have been pretty week. What about King Nefertari Cobra? What about Iceburg? All are leaders, and none are worth anything in fighting. They gave me 3 examples in a sea of yonkos, shickibukai, pirate captains who are stronger than their crew. What you failed to mention is that they are political leaders more so than leaders of an army or pirates. Luffy, Captains of other crews, the 4 Yonkos, the 3 Admirals, the 7 Shichibukai are leaders of a fighting force(one of them is the exception because he is alone-mihawk, the other is the exception because he got posses an army from sheer luck and he is a comical character so it makes sense-buggy) they aren't political leaders. So now only certain types of leaders count as leaders? There are leaders of army's and there are political leaders. Where is the proof that Dragon doesn't have haki? How does it make sense in the context of the story? Dragon, son of Garp(who has haki), father of Luffy(who has haki), mentor of Sabo(who has haki) and leader of the Revolutionary Army is somehow a weak little bitch with no haki? Why would we have to prove that Dragon does not have haki. Because your claim is asinine and does not follow the context of the story. Yes to be a successful leader you do have to be powerful in combat and my claim is right. Once again what makes sense in the context of the story? That all the Yonko, admirals, shichibukai and other commanders of pirate crews are weak people who just happen to be very good leaders and nobody bothered to overthrow them by force? Or does it make sense that they are ridiculously strong and they are good leaders and nobody in their crew/army COULD overthrow them by force? Nice to see you've read the rest of my post. The fact that Dragon probably does have Haki does not negate the inanity of asking for proof of something which you assert groundlessly. Additionally proving that anyone at all, especially someone that appears so seldom as Dragon doesn't have haki is impossible, as you very well know, which means that such a comment is just to divert attention away from the flaws of your argument. Nice also to see you affirming that your claim is right, I would never have anticipated you having such a position. In what way is what I asserted groundless? You've stated that Dragon must have haki. People have said: we don't know that for sure. Prove it. You can't prove it. You gave a very long winded explanation about how every leader (except for these half a dozen or so exceptions, since other people have been disobliging enough to point them out) is strong, so Dragon must be strong, and every one who is strong has haki so Dragon must have haki. All these things do not constitute proof that Dragon has haki. They might suggest it. They might point towards Dragon having haki being probable. But none of these demonstrate conclusively that he must have haki. He might be one of the exceptions for all we know. Or he might be a leader that does not fit your model of leadership in One Piece. Thus I declare that your claim that Dragon must absolutely have haki is groundless, for you have in no way demonstrated that he does, only that he could have. The fact that you did so in a very antagonistic and vehement tone harms your case for that matter.
I very clearly demonstrated that Dragon does have haki but you fail to see it. How would you explain Sabo having haki under Dragon's rule?
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On September 14 2014 11:26 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2014 11:00 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 10:57 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
No no no no no. You just don't get it. Go read the wiki article again. You know... the one that you linked? Or is that yet another exception to the rule for you?
Are you going to keep your truly asinine argument that any exceptions to your argument just makes you more right? Because seriously, I don't know how to respond to that, but to shove that into your face till you admit that isn't the right way to construct an argument. Yes I read it, especially this part "The exception [that] proves the rule" means that the presence of an exception applying to a specific case establishes ("proves") that a general rule exists." Did you read that part? I think he means: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exception_that_proves_the_rule#Serious_nonsense
I read that part and it no way applies to what I said. Men are stronger then women except when women are Olympic weightlifters. That is an exception to the rule. How could that possibly be misconstrued?
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On September 14 2014 13:56 ElizarTringov wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2014 11:26 Sentenal wrote:On September 14 2014 11:00 ElizarTringov wrote:On September 14 2014 10:57 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
No no no no no. You just don't get it. Go read the wiki article again. You know... the one that you linked? Or is that yet another exception to the rule for you?
Are you going to keep your truly asinine argument that any exceptions to your argument just makes you more right? Because seriously, I don't know how to respond to that, but to shove that into your face till you admit that isn't the right way to construct an argument. Yes I read it, especially this part "The exception [that] proves the rule" means that the presence of an exception applying to a specific case establishes ("proves") that a general rule exists." Did you read that part? I think he means: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exception_that_proves_the_rule#Serious_nonsense I read that part and it no way applies to what I said. Men are stronger then women except when women are Olympic weightlifters. That is an exception to the rule. How could that possibly be misconstrued?
Where is the rule that states that? Where is the rule that says all leaders must have haki? You thinking something doesn't constitute a rule, it constitutes an opinion. Having something conflict with your opinion doesn't make your opinion a rule. You making a claim doesn't constitute a rule. You saying something is a rule, doesn't actually make something a rule. The point is that you are laughably misusing the phrase, since you don't understand what an exception is, or what a rule is.
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EPT
