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On April 15 2014 03:50 MagmaPunch wrote:
Why the fuck are we even talking about Doflamingo being an honorable men ? Honorable is pretty subjective in some cases.In my opinion, we cannot say that Doffy is honorable, no fucking way. Is he loyal in regard to his crew and high-ranking officers ? So far it has been shown,that he is. However, I Doffla is ready to use any means necessary to win,even if it involves deceit,blackmailing, falsely accusing someone etc. etc.
Becuase of this:
On April 14 2014 11:51 rei wrote:
Doflamingo is a honorable person who would never cheat his combatants of his coliseum out of their fight rewards.
Of course by disagreing with rei we are according to him "not mature enough to understand oda." whatever that is supposed to mean
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On April 15 2014 05:06 GettingIt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 03:50 Forikorder wrote:On April 15 2014 03:03 GettingIt wrote:On April 15 2014 02:46 Forikorder wrote:On April 15 2014 02:35 Raneth wrote:On April 15 2014 02:18 Forikorder wrote:On April 15 2014 01:58 BlackMagister wrote:On April 15 2014 01:33 Forikorder wrote:On April 15 2014 01:09 BlackMagister wrote:
You can still be honorable to enemies. A swordsman challenges another swordsman to a duel. The second swordsman agrees to the duel, but says "I get to choose the time and place" the first agrees and turns around to leave and is struck down by the second swordsman.
Honorable right? There can still be honor between enemies, it's just when you're trying to kill each other it creates a huge incentive not to be honorable to win. Law was planning to give Caesar back that was honorable even though he could have just killed Caesar after DD appeared to resign. except the switch was jsut Law trying to buy time... Law was still planning to uphold his end of the bargain while DD will break promises. Why are you even trying to argue with this? It's one thing in a list of shit DD has done. Let's not forget how DD lied to the entire country to make them hate King Riku when they loved him previously and refused to let Riku try to buy back his kingdom when he attempted to accept the deal DD made. if DD "upheld" his end of the "bargain" (which is your term for Law blackmailing DD) then DD would have lost everything So he did a smart thing by tricking law, but he DIDNT do an HONOURABLE thing, you know that word you keep using? Honourable? it doesnt make someone un-honourable to lie to someone when its either lie or die Good thing it wasn't lie or die then. cause Law totally doest seem like he wants DD dead at any rate there enemies only the most lawful stupid would refuse to lie to there enemy Cause Law totally can kill DD
yes im quite certain that if DD just let Laws plan go on without a hitch DD has a good chance of dieing especially considering he currently is not attached to his HEAD
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On April 15 2014 00:41 BlackMagister wrote:Bellamy was given a second chance only to be attacked by member of the Donquitxote family before he could even try to kill Luffy. You can't argue he had to betray Bellamy to survive here. He just betrayed Bellamy because he doesn't give a shit about him. I don't see how this can be reasoned as honorable. http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/714/11http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/729/4Lying to Law and the world because "he had to" doesn't make it honorable. DD doesn't want to give people what they want. He likes playing with people's feelings and messing with them, like Bellamy, Law, the gladiators and any subordinate not part of his family. The only reason he might uphold giving the Mera Mera fruit is because he would lose face with the pirate/criminal community which is not the same as being honorable. Though as Diamante said they never planned to give the fruit away.
"HMMM well you always fail anyway"
That sounds like he was given more than 1 chance to me and I'm not just talking about winning the tournament.
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Yes of course Bellamy was spared after he was beaten by Luffy in Mock Town. Maybe Bellamy had more failures than that, but we only know of losing to Luffy in Mock Town and the arena loss. DD almost killed Bellamy for his Mock Town failure so actually killing Bellamy after his second failure seems appropriate since DD doesn't give a shit for anyone he doesn't consider part of his family. Of course there was no reason to betray Bellamy except looking down on Bellamy as trash, Bellamy was extremely loyal to DD going to Skypiea and retrieving a golden column and was about to try and assassinate Luffy even though he had come to respect Luffy.
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Let me teach you guys with real history on the same event that could be see as honorable and dishonorable.
The founding fathers of the United States were patriots who gave their people freedom by revolting against the British Empire. From this context, they are heroes of the country, they deserved to have their faces printed on our currency and immortalized about what they have done for the country.
The same founding fathers were slave owners who fought for freedom while owning thousands of slaves, this makes them dishonorable, this became the biggest hypocrisy in mankind's history, but most people in the United States can't make this connection by themselves because they don't think for themselves, and let the text books think for them.
Mingo's actions are dishonorable for the readers such as yourselves, but if you guys can think for yourselves for a second, you can see that he must be honorable to his crew for them to willingly die for him without hesitation. Because his crew does not die for him out of fear, they are willing to die for him out of respect.
Remember what he said during the marine fort war ? what's good and what's evil, there is no such things, the winner will be justice and the loser will be evil. What's right and what's wrong? what's good and what's evil? what's honor and what's dishonor? Everything is decided by people, there is no absolute guidelines. (don't give me that god decided what's good and what's evil bullshit, god is fiction just like one piece is fiction) Some people in this world thinks it's honorable to beat on their wife, some judges think it's dishonorable for the wife to sue the wife beater, again same fucking event.
Was this educational? I let you guys show your ignorance, and then teach you guys how to think for yourselves.
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On April 15 2014 22:01 rei wrote:
Let me teach you guys with real history on the same event that could be see as honorable and dishonorable.
The founding fathers of the United States were patriots who gave their people freedom by revolting against the British Empire. From this context, they are heroes of the country, they deserved to have their faces printed on our currency and immortalized about what they have done for the country.
The same founding fathers were slave owners who fought for freedom while owning thousands of slaves, this makes them dishonorable, this became the biggest hypocrisy in mankind's history, but most people in the United States can't make this connection by themselves because they don't think for themselves, and let the text books think for them.
Mingo's actions are dishonorable for the readers such as yourselves, but if you guys can think for yourselves for a second, you can see that he must be honorable to his crew for them to willingly die for him without hesitation. Because his crew does not die for him out of fear, they are willing to die for him out of respect.
Remember what he said during the marine fort war ? what's good and what's evil, there is no such things, the winner will be justice and the loser will be evil. What's right and what's wrong? what's good and what's evil? what's honor and what's dishonor? Everything is decided by people, there is no absolute guidelines. (don't give me that god decided what's good and what's evil bullshit, god is fiction just like one piece is fiction) Some people in this world thinks it's honorable to beat on their wife, some judges think it's dishonorable for the wife to sue the wife beater, again same fucking event.
Was this educational? I let you guys show your ignorance, and then teach you guys how to think for yourselves.
You are implying that words have no definitions because of cultural subjectivity? Go read some virtue ethics or some Kant before trying to educate people on ethical theories. If someone thinks that beating their wife is honourable in and of itself, then they are simply wrong due to the current working conditions of what it is for something to be considered honourable.
You are once again making the same leap in logic, that because his crew respect him, they MUST think he is honourable. This is simply not true as I stated earlier. It is simply not metaphysically impossible to have respect for somebody who is dishonourable. To illustrate: I respect Bron, from Game of Thrones, for all sorts of reasons, even though he a paradigm example of a sneaky rouge character with no honour.
The example of loyalty to Hitler and Stalin was also perfectly apt for this situation. This is a stupid discussion. Just admit you are wrong and move on with your life.
EDIT: Urgh, i just re-read through what i wrote, i was about to continue working on a paper but the spelling mistakes and typo's in my post make me think perhaps i am too tired today ¬_¬
Some typo mistakes have been fixed
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On April 15 2014 23:04 Raneth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 22:01 rei wrote:
Let me teach you guys with real history on the same event that could be see as honorable and dishonorable.
The founding fathers of the United States were patriots who gave their people freedom by revolting against the British Empire. From this context, they are heroes of the country, they deserved to have their faces printed on our currency and immortalized about what they have done for the country.
The same founding fathers were slave owners who fought for freedom while owning thousands of slaves, this makes them dishonorable, this became the biggest hypocrisy in mankind's history, but most people in the United States can't make this connection by themselves because they don't think for themselves, and let the text books think for them.
Mingo's actions are dishonorable for the readers such as yourselves, but if you guys can think for yourselves for a second, you can see that he must be honorable to his crew for them to willingly die for him without hesitation. Because his crew does not die for him out of fear, they are willing to die for him out of respect.
Remember what he said during the marine fort war ? what's good and what's evil, there is no such things, the winner will be justice and the loser will be evil. What's right and what's wrong? what's good and what's evil? what's honor and what's dishonor? Everything is decided by people, there is no absolute guidelines. (don't give me that god decided what's good and what's evil bullshit, god is fiction just like one piece is fiction) Some people in this world thinks it's honorable to beat on their wife, some judges think it's dishonorable for the wife to sue the wife beater, again same fucking event.
Was this educational? I let you guys show your ignorance, and then teach you guys how to think for yourselves.
You are implying that words have no definitions because of cultural subjectivity? Go read some virtue ethics or some Kant before trying to educate people on ethical theories. If someone thinking beating their wife if honourable in and of itself, then they are simply wrong by the current working conditions of what it is to be considered honourable. You are once again making the same leap in logic, that because his crew respect him, they MUST think he is honourable. This is simply not true as stated earlier. It is simply not metaphysically impossibly to have respect for somebody who is dishonourable, i respect bron for all sorts of reasons, he is the epitome of the sneaky rouge character with no honour. The example of loyalty to hitler and stalin was also perfectly apt for this situation. This is a stupid discussion. Just admit you are wrong and move on with your life.
Off topic i have been looking for that term in a looonnnngg time ! you don't mind if i steal that right ?
One piece thread turning into a ethical thread.
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You can use the term all you want, its a subject in philosophy. Outside of the logic flaw theres so many reasons to follow/help/die for someone without them being honorable. Think about family, my brother isn't honorable at all but i'd bury a body for him.
I'm not sure if rei was trying to troll on this one or not... it seems like he thinks he knows what hes talking about.
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I really like One Piece. Is there a place around here to talk about One Piece?
Maybe take philosophy discussion to PMs?
+ Show Spoiler +Is there a chapter for Flamewheel coming this week?
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France7248 Posts
On April 16 2014 02:13 LaughingTulkas wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Is there a chapter for Flamewheel coming this week?
no :<
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On April 16 2014 02:17 Yhamm wrote:no :<
no flamewheel chapter means no happiness this week 
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Is it bad if I was already told there was no chapter this week but i still continually check the thread for the chance that I was told wrong.
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On April 16 2014 02:48 terranghost wrote:
Is it bad if I was already told there was no chapter this week but i still continually check the thread for the chance that I was told wrong.
never give up hope
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Yes it's stupid to go into a philosophical argument, but that's all rei and forik are doing since they aren't talking about the initial argument.
On April 14 2014 11:51 rei wrote:
Doflamingo is a honorable person who would never cheat his combatants of his coliseum out of their fight rewards. Even evil people have a code that they follow, he's not as low as to put out something fake, he would lose all credibility in the underworld if he hadn't been good for his words. On top of that he didn't plan on allowing anyone that's not a toy walking out of that coliseum in the first place. (he didn't say anything about not killing the person who won the fruit and regain the fruit afterward)
Is he honorable, no I don't think so. Even if you do does it matter? DD is someone who would cheat people and make unfair deals we have plenty of examples. Diamante said they didn't plan on anyone getting the fruit so it's just the DD crew being inept rather than wanting to run a fair tournament.
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On April 16 2014 03:01 BlackMagister wrote:Yes it's stupid to go into a philosophical argument, but that's all rei and forik are doing since they aren't talking about the initial argument. Show nested quote +On April 14 2014 11:51 rei wrote:
Doflamingo is a honorable person who would never cheat his combatants of his coliseum out of their fight rewards. Even evil people have a code that they follow, he's not as low as to put out something fake, he would lose all credibility in the underworld if he hadn't been good for his words. On top of that he didn't plan on allowing anyone that's not a toy walking out of that coliseum in the first place. (he didn't say anything about not killing the person who won the fruit and regain the fruit afterward) Is he honorable, no I don't think so. Even if you do does it matter? Is DD someone that would cheat people yes. Whatever your opinion of DD is or your weird concept of words mean we have examples of DD lying and cheating people. Diamante said they didn't plan on anyone getting the fruit so it's just the DD crew being inept rather than running a fair tournament.
i see DD more as the type who doesnt cheat people because he manipulated the situation so much he can run it straight up and it come out his way
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How the heck are you interpreting someone who lies to win as someone who plays straight up? His big wins were vs King Riku and Law both involved really big lies.
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Alright, new topic. Usopp during the peroa fight says that he's known for being the strongest man in east blue, how is he going to be stronger than luffy and how will he smack someone with a 10k hammer?
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On April 16 2014 04:10 Chro wrote:
Alright, new topic. Usopp during the peroa fight says that he's known for being the strongest man in east blue, how is he going to be stronger than luffy and how will he smack someone with a 10k hammer?
wait, i'm confused ?
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
i'm still gonna check this thread even if there is no chapter
i'm a patient motherfucker
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EPT
